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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


  • Total voters
    288

LuvOfThaGame

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Feb 29, 2016
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They are preparing to release the Kraken on the console gaming world this E3......In essence; 20TF, Zen3, 48gb ram..... Phil comes on stage dressed as Thor, slams the mic/hammer, then exits stage......The crowd loses it..... Dealer gaming, Brad Sams, Jez, Klobrille rushes on stage past security and do the MS-Executive-Onstage-Dance. gif........ DF writes a swooning article 1 second later, no hyena laughs here.....
You kid about exaggeration of specs of xbox fans, yet those, besides maybe the zen 3, specs was close to your serious prediction for ps5. Funny , hu? Lol.
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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$1000 dollar mainboard for zen 2 (liquid cooled).




 
Jul 29, 2013
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Irrespective of Sony's hardware preferences, it's plain to see from X1X that MS is fully capable of delivering a well-engineered, high-powered console that's compact and quiet.

With diminishing returns, I don't think you'll see a "gotcha" moment with performance that plays out in any meaningful way. They have so much shit to mitigate that now(adaptive res, checkerboard, etc) and the differences at +/-4k are way harder to discern compared to lower res.
 

nowhat

Formerly 'wutnau'
Sep 18, 2017
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They will both know pretty much what each other is doing hardware wise, especially when its the same company providing the tech.
Hence the last-minute addition of ESRAM on One when it was revealed PS4 was going to have 8GB of GDDR5?
 

ethomaz

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Hence the last-minute addition of ESRAM on One when it was revealed PS4 was going to have 8GB of GDDR5?
If you take in consideration MS after PS5/XB1 reveal start to work asap to increase clocks of their APU to narrow the power gap.
I believe MS have no certain about the actual power of PS4 until the reveal... makes sense because devkits were based in Phenom and dedicated Radeon and not the APU until late 2012.

PS. ERA goes meltdown with that tweet and now everybody is talking about PS5 using Vega when Sony/AMD confirmed dozen of times it is using Navi lol how can they be so... well I don't have words lol
 
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PS. ERA goes meltdown with that tweet and now everybody is talking about PS5 using Vega when Sony/AMD confirmed dozen of times it is using Navi lol how can they be so... well I don't have words lol
It's pure schadenfreude reading that thread. The bi-polar swings it takes every few days is fucking weird. In real life AMD is on stage with Sony and MS yucking it up. Meanwhile on reeee- a new rumor came out and somebody must commit seppuku.
 

~Fake

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PS. ERA goes meltdown with that tweet and now everybody is talking about PS5 using Vega when Sony/AMD confirmed dozen of times it is using Navi lol how can they be so... well I don't have words lol
Is quite shocking they want to believe on the tweet more than the article.
Quite funny too how the wired article stroke those little guys so hard. They're really out of control. I wonder how Xbox division take that article.
Hurt them in a way never seen before. They are still recovering from that article.
 
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demigod

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If you take in consideration MS after PS5/XB1 reveal start to work asap to increase clocks of their APU to narrow the power gap.
I believe MS have no certain about the actual power of PS4 until the reveal... makes sense because devkits were based in Phenom and dedicated Radeon and not the APU until late 2012.

PS. ERA goes meltdown with that tweet and now everybody is talking about PS5 using Vega when Sony/AMD confirmed dozen of times it is using Navi lol how can they be so... well I don't have words lol
Vega is power hungry. Only idiots would think PS5 wasn't going to use Navi, that's why I never believed the shit adoredtv was spewing.
 

mckmas8808

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Did you guys post this yet? Or am I late?

After the wired article my colleagues and I assumed that Sony had just put a PCIe 4 SSD into the PS5 and then called it a day (as PCIe 4 SSDs would be faster then current PC SSDs so it would fit their claim). I mean, the SSD came unexpected for us already since we were expecting at most a solution like Apples Fusion drives for cost reasons. Because of our PCIe 4 SSD expectation we were skeptical how much the SSD could decrease load times in PS4 titles played on the PS5.

For context: our current gen game (PS4, XBO, PC) loads around 40% faster when replacing the PS4 Pro HDD with a SATA SSD (~42 sec. vs. ~25 sec.). If we run our PC build in combination with an M.2 NVMe SSD we only see around 7% faster load times compared to the PS4 Pro with SATA SSD even though the NVMe SSD is ~6 times faster. But it get's even worse, when we take the Samsung PM1725a PCIe card from our build server to run the PC build on we only see 0-3% faster load times compared to an NVMe SSD, which shows that there are diminishing returns since current game IO has to assume HDDs as the baseline. Because of that we only expected similiar load time reductions for PS4 titles when played on the PS5. But we were proven wrong.

Together with our devkit (nothing from Microsoft yet) we received information material which was front and center about how they continue to strife to make the life for developers easier, in order for us to deliver better games faster to the players, and how that is a continuation of the ground work layed by architectural decisions taken in the PS4. The material is not only about new games though, but also about how the PS5 can help current gen games to take advantage of it's features - especially it's advanced storage solution. Apparently they have analyzed the IO behaviour of current gen games and baked the essence of it into what they call a high bandwidth cache controller, which can then map PS4 IO commands into optimized commands for their new storage solution were appropiate (without having to make changes to the game). And it shows, our unchanged game running on the devkit loads around 32% faster then our PC build on the PM1725a. But the material further states that in order to take full advantage of it the game will have to be patched, and I can't wait to see how fast our game will load once our software engineers have made source code changes to take full advantage of the fast storage.

This is obviously a throwaway account that I will delete in a few days... I have no technical data to share and I will not tell my position or company size like other "leakers" do as that could pinpoint me. Which is why I also disabled private messages. Just wanted to share that Sonys storage solution is a true next generation leap and that it will also greatly benefit PS4 games when played on the PS5 - even if the developers don't release patches for their games.

So this dev is saying that an "unpatched" PS4 game loads in 15 seconds on the PS5, compared to 42 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a HDD and 25 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a SSD. There's every reason to believe that if the game was patched it could load in under 10 seconds!

That's incredible when you consider that most PS4 gamers don't even have an SSD installed.
 
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Bani

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I do feel MS are planning something BIG. Letting Sony have their moment since Cerny's Wired article materialised suggests they are quietly confident, that or they are bricking it. But, Sony have clearly played their hand first in advance of E3; maybe they are anticipating something BIG from MS?
Sony had to let something to public,because if it wasn't the whole crown would have gone to Microsoft,Sony's got their two and a half minutes now we can all take a quiet and look at E3 and hear how long the anaconda will be,I'll say about 15
 

joe_zazen

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I do feel MS are planning something BIG. Letting Sony have their moment since Cerny's Wired article materialised suggests they are quietly confident, that or they are bricking it. But, Sony have clearly played their hand first in advance of E3; maybe they are anticipating something BIG from MS?
MS already has more studios, more devs, more streaming investment, more bc, the cheapest and the most powerful consoles, better sub service....what more are we expecting? MS fans need to give them some time to see the fruits of these investments.
 
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Gamernyc78

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Sony are patiently waiting as well, just drip feeding us little details that has everyone in a frenzy :) Very smart approach. We all know Sony is holding back on some major things. That Cerny I'm sure is going to make magic happen with PS5. Shit we havent even heard anything about the psvr and ps5 except bc for it.

I cannot wait.
 
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demigod

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Did you guys post this yet? Or am I late?



So this dev is saying that an "unpatched" PS4 game loads in 15 seconds on the PS5, compared to 42 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a HDD and 25 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a SSD. There's every reason to believe that if the game was patched it could load in under 10 seconds!

That's incredible when you consider that most PS4 gamers don't even have an SSD installed.
Yeah that was posted already. Since they mentioned high bandwidth cache controller that would mean PS5 will be using HBM.
 

xool

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So what are the current spec rumors of the Xbox One Next gen? This topic is 2/3 about the PS5.
There was a jeuxvideo leak picked up from reddit (posted c. Jan 15 2019, reported 28 Jan 2019)

  • $249 Lockhart- 8-core CPU, a 4TF GPU, 12GB of RAM, 1TB SSD and DirectX Ray Tracing support.
  • $499 Anaconda.. same plus stronger 12TF GPU and 16GB of RAM
SonGoku SonGoku - can this go in the first post list ? Thanks done

A quick summary (website in french) :

Two consoles, both launch holiday 2020.

Lockhart (streaming)
  • $ 249
  • CPU : Zen2 (custom) 8 cores/16 threads
  • GPU : Navi (custom) 4+ TF
  • Memory : 12GB GDDR6
  • "hard Drive" : 1TB NVMe SSD @ 1+GB/s
  • DirectX Raytracing + MS AI
Anaconda
  • $ 499
  • CPU : Zen2 (custom) 8 cores/16 threads
  • GPU : Navi (custom) 12+ TF
  • Memory : 16GB GDDR6
  • "hard Drive" : 1TB NVMe SSD @ 1+GB/s
  • DirectX Raytracing + MS AI
The also claimed to known PS5 specs (!) :
  • $399
  • CPU : Zen2 (custom) 8 cores/16 threads
  • GPU : Navi (custom) 8+ TF
  • Memory : 12GB GDDR6
  • "hard Drive" : 1TB SSD
  • Delayed from holiday 2019 to early 2020 or later

Originally posted by u/NovaMonbasa (deleted account) on reddit (imgur screencaps) .. they also claimed Asobo, IO interactive, Platinum Games, Turtle Rock, Bluepoint, Relic, and The Farm 51 (and others) in talks about acquisitions

Xbox launch games :
  • Halo Infinite (crossgen)
  • Forza Motorsport (crossgen)
  • Age of Empires 4 (crossgen)
  • Perfect Dark
  • Killer Instinct 2
  • Bleeding Edge (crossgen)
 
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thelastword

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$1000 dollar mainboard for zen 2 (liquid cooled).




Vendors are going all out for Zen 2......AMD has so much support this time around.......All vendors are on board for X570, Zen 2 and the 5700 series.......Those sapphire cards will be something......Think there will be watercooled solutions across the board for all AMD products too...

Some AIB Navi's...







Can't wait for the Sapphires, I will go with them I think........Ha, so much for Navi being in trouble and they should just scrap it and redo it......I think the source of that leak was Jensen Huang himself, so youtubers should be careful what type of leaks they choose to make public.........It just seems AMD has everything in check......AIB's will be there day 1 for their new GPU line unlike Vega and Polaris, this doesn't look like Navi is not ready for launch to me or having problems........ All major vendors are on the AMD train......Asus said they have 30 motherboards in the works including other laptop and desktop products........MS is on board for better AMD support for PC (drivers, gaming, desktop workloads), DXR..........Yeah, AMD did their homework......

As far as gaming is concerned, everybody seems to forget that AMD sent truckloads of RYZEN 1 + Vega/Polaris kits to developers all over the world from 2 years ago, ongoing........The next few games coming up will actually utilize Ryzen + AMD GPU's much much better, so what better way to launch a leading edge Ryzen CPU and a new architected AMD GPU, just at the time when some of these games will be coming to the fore or releasing, even more optimistic, knowing that all of AMD's specific optimizations for gaming is bolstered even more on the new products.......So yes, they're ready to lead the charge.....

So in as much as I'm excited for the Navi architecture and features breakdown....I'm also looking forward to the truckload of AMD Evolved titles they will unveil at E3, with specific AMD optimizations......AMD knows they have this in the bag on the PC side because consoles use AMD hardware now exclusively and all the multiplatforms games will gravitate towards optimizing for AMD kit.....As you can see lately, even recent/latest DX11 games are doing really well on AMD hardware, like RE2, kingdom Come Deliverance etc...... so things are already getting better for AMD across the divide........DX12 and Vulkan titles are pretty much locks already....

If you take in consideration MS after PS5/XB1 reveal start to work asap to increase clocks of their APU to narrow the power gap.
I believe MS have no certain about the actual power of PS4 until the reveal... makes sense because devkits were based in Phenom and dedicated Radeon and not the APU until late 2012.

PS. ERA goes meltdown with that tweet and now everybody is talking about PS5 using Vega when Sony/AMD confirmed dozen of times it is using Navi lol how can they be so... well I don't have words lol
Imagine what the XBOX-ONE would be like right now, if they never released some of the kinect footprint, some of the OS footprint etc to the devs, or if they never increased the clocks near launch..........MS was being trampled by PS4 at launch in 2013, the PS4 is still doing it's thing with no enhancement to resources like the XBOX received, yet XBONES is struggling something fierce still in 2019....I'm just thinking that if MS did not make these changes to the dev kit for better perf, XBONES would be running most games at 720p, 640p or even 540p with tearing and worse framerate right about now....It's already pretty bad as it is.....
 

Mega Man

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Why do any of these consoles need significant local power when they will be streaming the content? In theory, they could be comparable to a Google Chromebook and run Azure (or whatever they are calling their service). The loading times shown could have been done on the "cloud servers."
 

midouglas

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Mar 10, 2017
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MS already has more studios, more devs, more streaming investment, more bc, the cheapest and the most powerful consoles, better sub service....what more are we expecting? MS fans need to give them some time to see the fruits of these investments.
I'm happy with the service they provide with the prospect of new IP's but also I'm all keen for new technology.

Sony had to let something to public,because if it wasn't the whole crown would have gone to Microsoft,Sony's got their two and a half minutes now we can all take a quiet and look at E3 and hear how long the anaconda will be,I'll say about 15
Time will tell...
 

demigod

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splitting the pool u say not very smart though is it?
It's not really splitting the pool like with the PS3. The GPU(HBM) would be able to access the system ram(DDRx).

Here's a good read on it.
 

Sycomunkee

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So what are the current spec rumors of the Xbox One Next gen? This topic is 2/3 about the PS5.
Considering that the PS5 is the only thing that we have concrete information on, that makes sense. Give it some time, Microsoft is being tight lipped and letting Sony have their heyday. E3 is literally all about Microsoft at this point, other than Nintendo but it's usually quiet on that front.
 

transformer

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I know we don't have much official information to go on, but I feel like we sort of already know what we are going to get. Namely:

1. A low priced Xbox that is the weakest of all. Probably around 5-6 TF and $300.
2. A single PS5 model that is aiming for the key price point (~$400) and targeting the best performance possible while hitting that price point (10-13TF or so)
3. A high priced Xbox that will be the most powerful of all (on paper) and the most expensive of all (~$500).

The real question, besides official specs/pricing, is how much of a performance disparity between the PS5 and higher end Xbox. Sony has certainly been very good on the HW front and might be awfully close to the higher end Xbox while being notably cheaper. I suppose there is always the chance they are more powerful and less expensive, but I don't find that likely given that they are both working with AMD on semi-custom APUs. The architecture and performance are not going to vary greatly without price differential in my opinion.
 

Sycomunkee

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Jan 21, 2019
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I know we don't have much official information to go on, but I feel like we sort of already know what we are going to get. Namely:

1. A low priced Xbox that is the weakest of all. Probably around 5-6 TF and $300.
2. A single PS5 model that is aiming for the key price point (~$400) and targeting the best performance possible while hitting that price point (10-13TF or so)
3. A high priced Xbox that will be the most powerful of all (on paper) and the most expensive of all (~$500).

The real question, besides official specs/pricing, is how much of a performance disparity between the PS5 and higher end Xbox. Sony has certainly been very good on the HW front and might be awfully close to the higher end Xbox while being notably cheaper. I suppose there is always the chance they are more powerful and less expensive, but I don't find that likely given that they are both working with AMD on semi-custom APUs. The architecture and performance are not going to vary greatly without price differential in my opinion.
Nice downplay. Clearly if Xbox is more powerful, it's only more powerful on paper.
 

xool

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May 29, 2018
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I know we don't have much official information to go on, but I feel like we sort of already know what we are going to get. Namely:

1. A low priced Xbox that is the weakest of all. Probably around 5-6 TF and $300.
2. A single PS5 model that is aiming for the key price point (~$400) and targeting the best performance possible while hitting that price point (10-13TF or so)
3. A high priced Xbox that will be the most powerful of all (on paper) and the most expensive of all (~$500).

The real question, besides official specs/pricing, is how much of a performance disparity between the PS5 and higher end Xbox. Sony has certainly been very good on the HW front and might be awfully close to the higher end Xbox while being notably cheaper. I suppose there is always the chance they are more powerful and less expensive, but I don't find that likely given that they are both working with AMD on semi-custom APUs. The architecture and performance are not going to vary greatly without price differential in my opinion.
2 & 3 are likely wrong - the original PS5 leak (pastebin) had $499 and 14TF, 24GB+ GDDR6 same price, better spec than Anaconda (from jeuvideo leak)

afaik there hasn't been any subsequent infos that have done more than repeat these original leaks
 

nowhat

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I like how EVERYONE believes that XBox 2 is stronger than PS5 based on absolutely nothing. Some """""insider""""" said it and then everyone took it as true.
Hey, but it has Zen 3 in it - and 3 is larger than 2, innit?

The latest I've heard, it has Zen x + 1 in it, x being whatever Sony is going to go with.
 

FranXico

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I like how EVERYONE believes that XBox 2 is stronger than PS5 based on absolutely nothing. Some """""insider""""" said it and then everyone took it as true.
Get The Facts!
It's not only from insiders, it's also The Word of Phil!!!

Phil spoke thus: "We will never lose the power advantage again."
And the Defenders of Joy answered the call.
So Let It Be Written, So Let It Be Done.

The Word of Phil is Sacred! Do not question!

Obviously, I'm joking.
 
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Negotiator

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Does anyone know the correct formula to calculate Zen 2 flops?

Jaguar was like this: 8 cores x 8 ops x 1.6 GHz = 102.4 Gigaflops
 

OSC

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Why do any of these consoles need significant local power when they will be streaming the content? In theory, they could be comparable to a Google Chromebook and run Azure (or whatever they are calling their service). The loading times shown could have been done on the "cloud servers."
Latency, physics.
 

ethomaz

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Does anyone know the correct formula to calculate Zen 2 flops?

Jaguar was like this: 8 cores x 8 ops x 1.6 GHz = 102.4 Gigaflops
Depends the precision...

First your flops per cycle is right for Jaguar? K10 is 4 for DP and 8 for SP but everything after (Zen 2 is the only exception) is 8 for DP and 16 for SP.

Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller/Excavator/Zen/Zen+:
SP: 16flops per cycle x N cores x Z clock
DP: 8flops per cycle x N cores x Z clock

Zen 2:
SP: 32flops per cycle x N cores x Z clock
DP: 16flops per cycle x N cores x Z clock

Don't ask me how the virtual cores (threads) enters in the math :(

PS. I just found out Jaguar is just like K10 ;)
 
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llien

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Vendors are going all out for Zen 2......AMD has so much support this time around.......All vendors are on board for X570, Zen 2 and the 5700 series.......Those sapphire cards will be something......Think there will be watercooled solutions across the board for all AMD products too...
Logically, who is the target audience for 1000$ mainboards? Those, who want "max pawah" no matter the price.
There should be quite a bit of confidence in Zen2 to claim performance crown for that to make sense. (if 10nm rumors of clocks going down are true, which they possibly are given that Intel has so far shown only the mobile chip)

As far as gaming is concerned, everybody seems to forget that AMD sent truckloads of RYZEN 1 + Vega/Polaris kits to developers all over the world from 2 years ago, ongoing...
Haha, they now don't have to as Microsoft/Sony will anyhow.
And little sneaky Jaguar marked the shift to multi-core support years ago.
 

ethomaz

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E ethomaz or SonGoku SonGoku must know. Maybe they could put at the OP as well.
Note: AMD flops is different from Nvidia flops.
Flops is exactly the same for all... floating points operations per second.

The difference between AMD and nVidia is how efficient they uses these flops for determined tasks:

AMD uses these flops better in Compute tasks.
nVidia uses these flops better in Graphic tasks.

That is exactly what AMD is trying to change with RDNA focusing more in gaming and less on Compute... GCN will continue focusing more in Compute.
 
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llien

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Note: AMD flops is different from Nvidia flops.
Flops are flops (floating point operations).
AMD and nVidia flops are not different.
It's just AMD tends to go for denser design with more compute power (more flops) whereas nvidia opts for more of the other stuff (e.g. geometry processing)
 
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~Fake

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Flops are flops (floating point operations).
AMD and nVidia flops are not different.
It's just AMD tends to go for denser design with more compute power (more flops) whereas nvidia opts for more of the other stuff (e.g. geometry processing)
I think the way they're calculated are different.
 

Negotiator

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GPU flops. People used to compare those numbers. I remember someone posted here the formula. Gonna find.
I know the GPU formula (ALUs x 2 ops x MHz), but that wasn't my question. :)

First your flops per cycle is right for Jaguar?
Yeah, it is: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Flops.html

I'm strictly talking about SP/FP32.

Zen 2:
SP: 32flops per cycle x N cores x Z clock
32 x 8 x 3.2 = 819 Gigaflops

Is that correct? Seems like a big step up.
 
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Lort

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Microsoft says alot of shit and huffs and puffs but disappoints as well. Only Xbox fans care about what Phil says in regards to power advantage but other ppl in the real world know some of these hardware specs are well guarded and only an idiot can make claims like that. It's like Kinect being the future of gaming and all those fake, doctored videos, or kinect not being removable from base Xbox one because of os, or the cloud adding all this power to Xbox One and making it Uber powerful. Most, if not all claims made by execs at one point or another and all fell flat. CD3 latest tales of grandeur and ended up being shit.

Is it possible Microsoft will have stronger hardware? Yes, it is, but it's also possible Sony will have the more powerful console. Pr talk and hype is just that. Mess around Microsoft goes Vega and Sony Navi and their both very close power wise or both go Navi.

As if Sony is just going to say "pack it up guys Microsoft said they gonna beat us in power, it's a wrap lol" 😂😂😂😂 This is a game of chess Sony has been winnng in for awhile.

I believe in Cerny more than anyone on Micros team bet that.
Lol

Sony totally failed in the last game of “chess” PS4 Pro vs Xbox one x .. also sony ps2 was performance wise decimated by the original xbox.

Come to think of it after a huge sales advantage from that generation Sony lost the next by almost every benchmark .. console sales, games sales and games performance the era of ps3 vs 360.

So far performance wise Sony has lost 3/4 console releases.
 

TBiddy

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They proved they can out engineer Sony in console hardware and I'm expecting the same for the next gen.
I think performance-wise the consoles will be pretty even, if you look at performance pr. dollar, but as we've seen with the XBX vs. the PS4Pro the engineering on the XBX is just on another level. Perhaps the performance jump was to be expected, but this whole vapor cooling thing? Compare that to the jet-engine that sits in the PS4Pro and you'd know that Microsoft has some serious chops when it comes to designing hardware.