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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Snake29

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
On several sites where i see butthurt xfans now acting the DXR "co-developed" is somehow "hallelujah". What's with them and the word "co-developed"? All PS consoles where co-developed with vendors in some ways. They really have no arguments anymore after the confirmation that PS5 has RDNA2.

All that dumbass shit from 2013 starting again. With this i really hope the PS5 is more powerful because i want to see more people to shut the hell up!
 
ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
What I read:

Syn Marnotrawny said:
Let's sum it all up:
- custom SSD which is much faster than what will be in xbox
- 13.8tf
- 24gb ram
- console form factor, because people playing on ps hate pc's and tower design
- $400

Sounds legit
Click to expand...


What I see:

vmEY1MAWwfTl.gif
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
o'dium said:
I’m sure I said a figure that seems to keep getting proven bang on but let’s just keep guessing.
Click to expand...
Struggling to see how any of this has proven your 11.6 figure.

It only confirms the github leak is irrelevant, not what the final console will ship with.

It could be 11.5 as your guy told you, it could be 11.6 as you revised it to, it could also be 12.4 which Osisris has been saying for months, or it could be 13.3 like Tommy said when he told everyone both were using RDNA 2.

Time will tell, nothing will be proven until Sony reveal, and maybe not even then.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Snake29 said:
All that dumbass shit from 2013 starting again. With this i really hope the PS5 is more powerful because i want to see more people to shut the hell up!
Click to expand...
The issue is that these people had a very shitty current gen, so they were very much looking forward to this new gen. Then some leaks were starting to come in about the XSX being an absolute beast, 12TF console which no one really expected because they didn't know this was possible. Microsoft's drip marketing campaign puts more fuel to the fire. Those Xbox fanboys need a win. Once it was starting to get clear that the XSX is practically the same system as the PS5, they start clinging on to these ridiculous things like PS5 RDNA1, PS5 9.2TF, DXR co-developed with AMD, etc. to just have an edge on the PS5 that they can boast about. It makes much more sense to just ignore them, then to ridicule them. The same goes for team PS5 > 13TF camp, people who want the PS5 to be much better because they have this weird affinity with Sony, and want to make sure everyone knows their console is the best no matter how much fun other people can have on theirs. People should focus on the games and services. Sony is doing very well in games, Microsoft tries to catch up, we'll see if that works. Microsoft has great services and keeps pushing for new things, Sony just has to follow if people really like it.

In the end gamers win thanks to the competition between these two companies.
 
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Von Hugh

Von Hugh

Member
o'dium said:
I’ve had new info from a new source named only as Mya Harse. She seems to think the new PS5 will be 47tf, with an 8ghz cpu and not just some ram, but ALL the ram! Check your pc right now... it’s gone! Suggested retail price 4 and a half badgers.
Click to expand...

Haha, so randum. 🤡
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
ElleryJamesRoberts said:
No. A 225W GCN GPU would only need about 112W RDNA2 for the same performance. (or Roughly around there)

The way AMD and Nvidia do their math on this can be a bit confusing. The math itself is correct, but they do it in a way to make it sound the best (for them).

When AMD says RDNA1 -> RDNA2 is a 50% perf/watt increase then that also includes the lower power consumption by the more advanced manufacturing node.

Bear with me. I know this sounds wrong what I am about to say, but it is actually correct and reviews back me up on this.

To put it very simple in an easy to show example :

Radeon VII uses about 270W during gaming. This is a 7nm GCN Card.
5700 XT uses about 210W during gaming. This is a 7nm RDNA1 card.
Those two cards have roughly the same performance.
If we were to have an RDNA2 card with the same performance as the two cards mentioned aboved it would only need 140W-150W ~

The way it works in math is that % increase and % decrease are different. Like if you have 100 Apples and you INCREASE your apple count by 50% then you have 150 Apples. But if you now DECREASE your Apple count by 50% you suddenly end up at 75 apples (going from 150 apples). This is kind of the same that is happening here. In order to go back to 100 from 150 you would need to DECREASE by 33%.
But saying 50% better perf/watt sounds much better in presentations than saying 33% decrease in power consumption.

When AMD says 50% better. What they mean is that it is a 30-33% decrease in power consumption.
Click to expand...

But why would the number of apples stay at 150?, I thought the original number of apples was 100?
 
TherapistGaymer

TherapistGaymer

Banned
X-Fighter said:
The issue is that these people had a very shitty current gen, so they were very much looking forward to this new gen. Then some leaks were starting to come in about the XSX being an absolute beast, 12TF console which no one really expected because they didn't know this was possible. Microsoft's drip marketing campaign puts more fuel to the fire. Those Xbox fanboys need a win. Once it was starting to get clear that the XSX is practically the same system as the PS5, they start clinging on to these ridiculous things like PS5 RDNA1, PS5 9.2TF, DXR co-developed with AMD, etc. to just have an edge on the PS5 that they can boast about. It makes much more sense to just ignore them, then to ridicule them. The same goes for team PS5 > 13TF camp, people who want the PS5 to be much better because they have this weird affinity with Sony, and want to make sure everyone knows their console is the best no matter how much fun other people can have on theirs. People should focus on the games and services. Sony is doing very well in games, Microsoft tries to catch up, we'll see if that works. Microsoft has great services and keeps pushing for new things, Sony just has to follow if people really like it.

In the end gamers win thanks to the competition between these two companies.
Click to expand...
This this and freaking this! Go @X-Fighter preach that! Exactly what I'm talking about.
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
DJ12 said:
Struggling to see how any of this has proven your 11.6 figure.

It only confirms the github leak is irrelevant, not what the final console will ship with.

It could be 11.5 as your guy told you, it could be 11.6 as you revised it to, it could also be 12.4 which Osisris has been saying for months, or it could be 13.3 like Tommy said when he told everyone both were using RDNA 2.

Time will tell, nothing will be proven until Sony reveal, and maybe not even then.
Click to expand...

Lets put it this way. It’s either 11.6, or 12.4. Tommy isn’t to be trusted, what he got right was common knowledge at the time anyway, and he said 7nm+ rdna 2, which is different.

Let’s put it another way... all the above is logical, yet 13.stupidlyHighNumber isn’t. The only reason this shit gets any traction at all is because fanboys don’t just want the consoles to be on par, their machine has to beat the Xbox by a wide margin, even though common sense will show that the numbers just don’t add up.

edit: also see what @X-Fighter just said, that sums it up perfectly. You have too many fanboys with no clue saying shit that the people who are actually making realistic, achievable suggestions are batted away. Think about that.
 
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DrDamn

DrDamn

Member
Formula12 said:
What i am suggesting is. Microsoft felt they needed to work with AMD to co-author and develop a new API to obtain the best performance from the hardware ray tracing.

Sony doing similar work on its own, it very unlikely they’ll receive the same gains? This just speculation as we don’t know what Sony API development is for the hardware ray tracing. It’s interesting AMD and Microsoft co designed an API specifically for ray tracing for their console.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing the point that DXR needs to cover and be compatible with all RT solutions, i.e. both AMD and Nvidia. So it makes a lot more sense that MS and AMD would work together on this so that AMD is happy that it gets the most from their design as possible. Sony just have the AMD solution to work with and optimise for.
 
demigod

demigod

Member
o'dium said:
Lets put it this way. It’s either 11.6, or 12.4. Tommy isn’t to be trusted, what he got right was common knowledge at the time anyway, and he said 7nm+ rdna 2, which is different.

Let’s put it another way... all the above is logical, yet 13.stupidlyHighNumber isn’t. The only reason this shit gets any traction at all is because fanboys don’t just want the consoles to be on par, their machine has to beat the Xbox by a wide margin, even though common sense will show that the numbers just don’t add up.

edit: also see what @X-Fighter just said, that sums it up perfectly. You have too many fanboys with no clue saying shit that the people who are actually making realistic, achievable suggestions are batted away. Think about that.
Click to expand...

Lets ignore Tommy Fisher. I’m not saying 13TF is or isn’t. How can you say it can’t be 13TF when we’ve heard there’s a 10%+ - difference and now we know XSX is 12TF.
 
D

Desodeset

Neo Member
Hello Guys! May be it's my first post in thread.

I think that there are more factors to consider when the raw power of the GPU is calculated.

1. RT implementation (including dedicated hardware/core/units and performance impact)
2. SSD implementation (GPU decompression?)

For example. it is rumored that XsX us using GPU decompression for the SSD. Sony SSD patent on the other hand is hinting toward a dedicated processor for decompression. That means that XsX GPU might be 12+ tflops, but some of those resources to be used for other purposes.
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
o'dium said:
Lets put it this way. It’s either 11.6, or 12.4. Tommy isn’t to be trusted, what he got right was common knowledge at the time anyway, and he said 7nm+ rdna 2, which is different.
Click to expand...
OK, so you agree that it hasn't actually proven you right.

Thanks, let's move on.

You can write Tommy off and try and revise history as much as you like, some of his information checks out, and lets not forget osiris also heard that the 13 tflops target has been reached. Maybe this was from tommy though as I'm sure they exchanged PMs.

Even known xbox insider with all the H's said xbox wasn't RDNA 2 after the game award show.

To summarise, nothing is proven, everything is on the table, regardless of how stupid you think it is until Sony announce the console. I'm sure if they don't give up the floppage, some kind developer will do so.

Do I believe it's 13, not really, but it cannot be ruled out. There are many ways Sony could hit that target with relative ease.
 
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J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Koopatrol said:
Yeah, Navi 10 is RDNA 1. So obviously there is some contradiction, since PS5 will be RDNA 2. I'm not really sure on the revisions/steppings, how big of an upgrade can go from A0 to E0; I'm not sure if that could possibly entail an architecture change.

Another theory I saw floated around is that the Oberon A0 tests were simulations, since AMD talked about simulating products in regards to their engineering design. Pretty interesting stuff, but I'm really not technically apt in this stuff so I'm not sure if this could have possibly been done with Oberon A0.

EDIT: Also this is assuming that Oberon A0 is Navi 10. _rogame said it was, but I'm not sure if anyone else verified.
Click to expand...
Razzy- said:
Logically, it does not make sense. More inclined that it is real but on early chip designs for devkit/PS5 2019.



Interesting on Oberon A0 simulation test theory. Kinda like using Ariel iGPU profile and simulate it on Oberon A0. (If it make sense to apply such profile on other chips)
Was there any info on the latest revision/stepping for Oberon?
Click to expand...
I asked recently why did it say "already fixed in Oberon" in github? Like it was comparing it to something else. Why not just say already fixed?

Recent findings (PS5 is using RDNA 2) introduced more questions.
 
it_wasn't_me

it_wasn't_me

Banned
Desodeset said:
Hello Guys! May be it's my first post in thread.

I think that there are more factors to consider when the raw power of the GPU is calculated.

1. RT implementation (including dedicated hardware/core/units and performance impact)
2. SSD implementation (GPU decompression?)

For example. it is rumored that XsX us using GPU decompression for the SSD. Sony SSD patent on the other hand is hinting toward a dedicated processor for decompression. That means that XsX GPU might be 12+ tflops, but some of those resources to be used for other purposes.
Click to expand...

You know better than MS how much TFLOPS has XSX. Mind you that rumored 12,08 TF is also a +12TF

EDIT :

btw, it's not your first post here. Check your post history
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
So if a 9.75tf RDNA Card draws about an average of 220w at peak gaming, what peak gaming average power draw can we expect from a 12tflop RDNA2 GPU?
 
G

ghausst

Neo Member
There was a slide about the RDNA/CDNA development, which "measured the perfomance" of RDNA as frame/sec and CDNA as Tflops/sec, i really hope that this is the kind of talk we hear in the future, Sony saying "PS5 is averaging xxfps in 4K" for instance.


I mean isn't it the main goal about those product, i think it's much more simpler than trying to explain what a Tflops is and what it means to people who don't really care or won't understand it anyway. Look at enthusiast forum posters running after those juicy Tflops while AMD themselves is not advertising it this way.
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
DJ12 DJ12 I’m sorry but tommy has burnt too many bridges. The things he got right, were things that were passed around before he even said them. The things he got wrong, were big, obvious things. For example, RDNA 2 or 1 is a 50/50 shot you get it right or wrong. I have info about how it wasn’t actually one or the other in the way we have known them to be. That’s not a straight forward guess, that’s a specific thing to say, that came true. Tommy just isn’t to be trusted.

OsirisBlack OsirisBlack however has posted a lot of good things, but he himself, like I have, have flip flopped about the place too. That’s pretty normal to do so when things change and you get new information. If he says 13+ I would trust him over tommy any day of the week, but I have people hands on myself who say different. At this point either could happen, but I’ll of course trust what I’ve been told more.

The thing that’s spoiling people here is so many have said 13+ now that it gets lost and mudded up in all the info. You’ve got tweets and news sites reporting valid person number 7 have said “13.8” yet we all know that number came from BGs BGs messing about. That’s how easy it easy to have a “evidence” shoves so far down people’s throats it becomes real to some.

The reason why 11.6-12.4 is more likely is far too numerous to say, however, everything DOES suggest that 12.4 and over is out of the question.

It’s just basic stuff really. You won’t land on an exact number, not by guessing on a forum. But you CAN make a realistic guess, and I’m sorry but those people making guesses over 13 are basing that on nothing more than this passion for beating Xbox. That’s it. If you ask them to do the math, they can’t, or they will and present unrealistic scenarios.

So I’ve been told 11.6. I’m sticking to my guns on that. Others are in either that region, or slightly higher. Those are REALISTIC places to fall.

Anything higher, or anything lower? That just doesn’t make sense.

edit: as an additional, you know as well as i that it’s not about hitting that target with ease that’s the problem. They could release a 24tf system if they wanted to, with relative ease. The ease of making the unit is not the problem.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
VanSiriusGabriel said:
They are, generally night scenes looks better and the first image is "empty" so it may look so different, but where you can see details it's insane regardless, for example all the little drawings on the chest (first image) vs shoulder armor (second). Plus, not considering YouTube and my screens resolution, the image is clean as fuck, the clarity of faces, hairs and sword is insane also in the first image.
Edit: no sword in the first image but in video there is, just a different cut.
Click to expand...

Your screenshots aren't in 4K, I guess, yet impressive. Here are some 4K screenshote:



















147731.jpg
 
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Z

Zanlee

Member
Almost every specialists said that TFLOPs won't matter next gen yet it's pretty much the only thing that we talk about. To follow this trend, I'd like to know how many bit is the PS5 going to be? The Gamecube was 128 bit so if the PS5 is 1000 times more powerful than that, it should be at least 128 000 bit right? I'm obviously kidding but it shows that their marketing strategies work. I'm team #Idontgiveaflop
 
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N

Nadojay

Neo Member
o'dium said:
DJ12 DJ12 I’m sorry but tommy has burnt too many bridges. The things he got right, were things that were passed around before he even said them. The things he got wrong, were big, obvious things. For example, RDNA 2 or 1 is a 50/50 shot you get it right or wrong. I have info about how it wasn’t actually one or the other in the way we have known them to be. That’s not a straight forward guess, that’s a specific thing to say, that came true. Tommy just isn’t to be trusted.

OsirisBlack OsirisBlack however has posted a lot of good things, but he himself, like I have, have flip flopped about the place too. That’s pretty normal to do so when things change and you get new information. If he says 13+ I would trust him over tommy any day of the week, but I have people hands on myself who say different. At this point either could happen, but I’ll of course trust what I’ve been told more.

The thing that’s spoiling people here is so many have said 13+ now that it gets lost and mudded up in all the info. You’ve got tweets and news sites reporting valid person number 7 have said “13.8” yet we all know that number came from BGs BGs messing about. That’s how easy it easy to have a “evidence” shoves so far down people’s throats it becomes real to some.

The reason why 11.6-12.4 is more likely is far too numerous to say, however, everything DOES suggest that 12.4 and over is out of the question.

It’s just basic stuff really. You won’t land on an exact number, not by guessing on a forum. But you CAN make a realistic guess, and I’m sorry but those people making guesses over 13 are basing that on nothing more than this passion for beating Xbox. That’s it. If you ask them to do the math, they can’t, or they will and present unrealistic scenarios.

So I’ve been told 11.6. I’m sticking to my guns on that. Others are in either that region, or slightly higher. Those are REALISTIC places to fall.

Anything higher, or anything lower? That just doesn’t make sense.

edit: as an additional, you know as well as i that it’s not about hitting that target with ease that’s the problem. They could release a 24tf system if they wanted to, with relative ease. The ease of making the unit is not the problem.
Click to expand...

So 54 x 3 @ 1680? Is my math right?
 
P

Pug

Member
Never got into the TF debate, all seems somewhat irrelevant considering both consoles are near identical. But at a guess, I reckon 12.1 XSX and 12.4 PS5. The major differences will not be 300x zoomed pictures of blades of grass, it will be the games and services both have to offer.
 
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