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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Marlenus

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Nope, they're Nvidia, we're still wating to see benchmarks for these RDNA 2 architectures, also factoring the custom silicon as well. Even still, the TI doesn't seem to blow the S that much out the water to justify the upgrade, the S is a solid card.

Okay, compare the RX590 to the Fury X. Fury X is using an older revision of GCN and at 1.05GHz it still beats the RX590 in all resolutions despite the RX590 having a 50% clock speed advantage.

If you decide you want to compare Radeon 7 to Vega 64 then fine, R7 is faster with fewer shaders but it has 210% memory bandwidth, a 113% clockspeed and has 93.75% of the shaders Vs Vega64.

PS5 otoh has 80% memory bandwidth (peak), 122% clockspeed (peak) but only 69% of the shaders. We also don't know the top count of either console.

PS5 is not going to deliver better graphics or smoother framerates than Xbox SX. It will be close, it will still look really good but it will be a little bit behind because it has a slower CPU and a slightly weaker GPU.

PS5 will probably sell more though.
 
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Lort

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Go see again what Cerny said during presentation and listen closely.
The limiting factor with chip design is heat.. the XSX could go FASTER if they ENABLED it.

They are showing off by disabling the feature. They are saying to the developers push this thing to the limit and don’t worry about it downclocking and causing frame drops or performance issues ... because we tested this at full speed in the desert. ( [Ron Howard voiceover] they actually did)

Throttling is for the weak. If your game can’t continuously rely on the the performance the hardware is claiming you’ll have stalls and sub par performance. Better get used to that.

Sony realised the disaster of trying to market a 9.5 tf gpu in this day and age and overclocked it to just over 10 for marketing purposes.

Let’s look at some predictions by Lort...

Be prepared for a PS5 being released soon as a minor upgrade to the xbox one x, the public buying it and being happy and neogaf imploding.

My guess zen 10tf gpu 4k 60 fps games that look identical to xbox one x which is at 4k 30...the ps4 got a lot of marketing play with 1080p identicical settings to xbox at 900p. Sony will show great looking games at 4k30 that are first party but could be done on xbox one x .. and promote the 4k60 mantra.

Announce release 2019 .. then realise their mistake and inability to deiver significant upgrade and at last moment change to mid 2020 release. Xbox 2 release 2020 end of year.
Once again with the blatant missinformation ... console war posting. Rotr gow and destiny 2 “However, based on our suite of Destiny 2 stress tests, we couldn't get the dynamic scaler to kick in at all, Xbox One X sticking hard and fast to its target resolution.” all run at true native 4k without droping a frame.

My point was which of course many people have already agreed with is that with xbox one x already running so many games at 4k or near 4k. How is the ps5 going to differenciate itself in the market? If the ps5 goes for true 4k 60 fps it will need over 2x the tf to have the same graphics. Its likely to be about 10tf.

What do you thinking the marketing will be pushing?
Sony cares about reputation and image .. i think they will avoid talking TF then say its 10 TF and then it will be just below so they dont have to bin so many.
A 1080 is 9 tf a 1080ti is 11.3tf ... we can hope RDNA 2 matches nvidia performance roughly per TF now. So this aligns with all early expectations of about 10 tf. I choose 11.4 tf in the poll ... I’d say xbox is about that and prob just over 10 for ps5. Everything aligns to my expectations.
 
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Lort

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Yeah, yeah. After XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s
lol no the whole internet knew xbox was 56cu for like a year .. and before that it was rumored... look at the dates of my original posts .. and consider I was talking about the past even then.
 
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SatansReverence

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You know that assets load in phases, you don't jump from nothing to ultra quality 4K assets in one go. It'll keep up with the phase technique: Low>medium>high quality, that can translate to 300MB>1GB>4GB. Guess what? You can do up tp 4GB in 0.2sec.
It's closer to 4gb it 0.5 seconds.

You can do a 180 degree turn in 1/10th of a second.

How many assets do you actually believe are going to be loaded from the drive in that time?
 
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it_wasn't_me

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lol no the whole internet new xbox was 56cu for like a year .. and before that it was rumored... look at the dates of my original posts .. and consider I was talking about the past even then.
So, if the whole internet knew the XSX specs for like a year, than Sony surely also upped specs since github leak. /s
 
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It’s clear from Cerny’s presentation that the PS5 cannot sustain both max clock speeds for the cpu and gpu. Most games will run at 2GHz glu clock speeds. Those games that do not, will have the cpu transfer power to the gpu such that it can hit 2.23 GHz
It's clear you're making things up:

"Running a GPU at 2Ghz was looking like an unreachable target with the old fixed frequency strategy. With this new paradigm we're able to run way over that, infact we have to cap the GPU frequency at 2.23Ghz so that we can guarantee the on chip logic operates properly.

36 CUs at 2.23Ghz is 10.3 Tflops and we expect the GPU to spend most of its time at our close to that frequency and performance.

Similarly running the CPU at 3 GHz was causing headaches with the old strategy but now we can run it as high as 3.5 GHz, in fact it spends most of its time at that frequency

That doesn't mean all games will be running at 2.23 GHz and 3.5 GHz. When that worst case arrives, it will run at a lower clockspeed, but not too much lower. To reduce power by 10%, it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor"
I expect more bullshit & FUD as we arrive closer to launch.
 
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nosseman

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It's clear you're making things up:



I expect more bullshit & FUD as we arrive closer to launch.
Sustained max clocks = fixed frequency.

We just have to wait and see but I have a REALLY hard time believing that Sony could not run the SoC at 3Ghz CPU/2Ghz GPU with fixed clocks/frequency and then all of a sudden its possible to run the SoC at 3.5Ghz CPU/2.23Ghz with NO throttling to speak of.

"But hey - you said that 3Ghz CPU/2Ghz GPU was impossible with fixed clocks - now you say that 3.5Ghz CPU/2.23Ghz is possible with what you describe is "minor" downclocking?"

"Yeah - totally. Minor downclocks... sometimes... but most of the time it run fixed clocks. :)"

"How much will it downclock in a normal AAA-title?"

"Just a couple of percent... its not like you or anyone can measure it like with GPU:s for PCs anyways...."

This is a normal GPU (5700 XT):


Notice how the average (excluding the extreme lows and highs) is quite a bit lower than the "normal" high?

For example:

Fixed upper - 1825 Mhz
Lowest - 1670 Mhz
Average - 1725 Mhz
 
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I like how selective GAF is. If one dev say that SSD won't change open world games dramaticly, they are Xbox fanboys. When Sony devs will say, that it is most revolutionary thing in industry, fanboys here just applaud.

It's nonsense. In a past few days i found out, that fast SSD can bruteforce weaker GPU specs, and that Kraken will be savior of PS5 (despite BCpack) and Tempest audio is most revolutionary thing in history of gaming. Almost like few years ago Microsoft was trying to persuade us about "power of cloud" and how can ESRAM overcome lower speed memory.

And what i like the most is, that Sony fanboys here are comparing PS5 SSD to XsX as if XsX had 5400rpm HDD, which is not true and they are talking about few unbelivable features despite the fact, that XsX has plenty of custom silicon too, they just wasn't focusing on it in their article (see BCpack vs. Kraken). XsX SSD is great on paper and for majority of games, devs will need to design their games with all hardware in mind, so maybe loading times will be only space, where we could potentionaly see any difference. And 1st party Sony dev can do what they want, but that's what? Like 2-3 games per year?

For me, it is nice, that Sony tried, but i think we learned by now, that dev resources are scarce and devs will optimize with the easiest way to save time and cost. We saw that in 360/PS3 era, we saw that in PS4/XOne era. No 3rd party dev will create different game just to use all the power of that mighty SSD. No one.

It's really last gen in reversal. Sony fans in full damage control, trying to find every straw to compensate for weaker specs with fluff. And also downplaying everything that Xbox showed. Yeah, Microsoft have 15 first party studios just to sit down and fiddle with their balls, also Game Pass is worst deal and it will destroy whole industry. Jesus, just wake up. There is nothing wrong with slightly less powerful console. If it will cost less money, everything is as it should be (but i´m not sure if PS5 will be cheaper because of that insane SSD, which is likely expensive as fuck, hence only 825GB capacity).

For example. Cerny came out and said, their SSD is 825GB. Sony fans came out to defend it with shit like "It's capacity of space that you can use" and "Cerny said it like that because he is IT guy," despite the fact, that never ever anybody from Microsoft/Sony talked about console space with available storage. Everybody is talking about maximum storage. Not even Cerny last gen. But try to say it here and few zealots will eat you alive

Most funny thing is, that if Sony came out with 13,3TFLOPS or something like that, we wouldn't have last 200 pages of "mighty SSD will put Xbox to shame" because PS fans would just talk about "my dream console is more powerful and therefore is better"
I overall agree that the reaction from some people has been crazy. I mean, just look at the pages where the reveal was going on. "Oh ghais 10.3 you were right Github I'm so sorry please make me eat shit". It's fucking ridiculous. Also yeah, the SSD space I find it crazy, now storage space is not indicated anymore as a whole but already subtracts the OS and shit? No lol
People need to stop getting ahead and think about GAMES. I'm curious how Sony will handle PS Now and first parties, the hardware they have can do exactly what SeX do but somewhat worst in some departments (higher clocks will do some things better), and that's it. It's fine, this is not what makes a console.
That said, I don't completely agree with the statements I marked in black.
Firstly, devs surely have time constraint, but I believe that generally they also have a BIT of consideration in making their game running as good as possible on all platforms. If this means making use of the Cell shit, that is too much. They actually did it later on, but it took a long while because it was a fucking strange CPU. There were devs declaring how much Cell was SHIT and a terrible idea, this is not happening with the SSD, the contrary actually. So, comparing the usage of Cell and the SSD I think is too much. It depends by the developers, sure, but maybe a lot of them will use the tech to close the gap SOMEWHAT, to free RAM and GPU a bit. Maybe not. But it's definetly not the Cell situation, also because according to Cerny the idea behind PS5 is to bring the learning curve under a month, while PS3 had the highest of all PlayStations. That means, I guess, that to use the SSD decently you will not need a big brain.
I also feel the urge to respond to the Gamepass thing, because I was one of the guys he said that is not that good in the long term.
Well, I just want to say: not everything is "damage control", sometimes is a true opinion. That's the case. I had this opinion far before any reveal of SeX, and I still have it. It will not magically change just because SeX is more powerful and now I don't want to look in damage control mode, so that's some honesty for ya actually.
And this is regarding all the "muh bias" that both Sony and MS fans spit everyday on devs that WORKS on that shit (and they fucking don't and likely ever will) or even DF: surprise, sometimes people disagree because they just fucking DON'T AGREE.
Now, last point: MS studios.
MS Studios are not sitting on their balls, that's a given. They are much probably working their ass off. Still, this doesn't give me ANY TRUST whatsoever in MS, because no matter how good the team is, bad management does it all. As well I don't have any trust in EA, Konami or Activision, they can buy all they want and pull billions out of their but, this doesn't mean fuck to me. Mind you, I don't want good games, no. I play since I'm 5 on PS1, trying do something on the first Tekken: there are far older players, but since than I played a lot, and one thing I'm sure is that I don't give a FOCK about good games anymore, I dumped Wolfenstein 2 despite being one of the best shooters out there because that is what I played since ten years ago, I'm tired. So for me MS do not only need to pull quality out, they betta take a load of inspiration and throw it at those games because otherwise my balls are gonna roll on the ground. And here is there I don't trust them, in a time where even decent games like the last Star Wars can't be polished enough for D1, it's already a lot that big teams can manage to get the bugs out of their games, let alone make great games.
So, I'm very happy MS is at least showing a far greater commitment, but it's not even nearly enough, everything can go wrong. I don't even like their platform managment, I will simply never buy an Xbox until they are like this, because I can just buy a PC, this is what they wants, they don't even consider Sony competion and in some sense they are right lol why should I care about Xbox if I didn't already own Xbox all my life and don't want to change? Because TFs? Get fucking real would you, there is no service and no games I can't fully appreciate already on PC, their idea is to make their console a simpler PC, that's not enough for me. On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, but AS A CONSOLE I'm just more curious about PS, really: probably it will have less performance on third parties, but first parties will likely do some crazy shits that you will not see elsewhere at least for a while, that's interest me more from a console perspective, not resolution. No, I don't care about PS4 vs One, I never did console war, so I don't say that because now PS5 has less TFs. Let's see how Sony handles exclusives anyway.
 
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It's closer to 4gb it 0.5 seconds.

You can do a 180 degree turn in 1/10th of a second.

How many assets do you actually believe are going to be loaded from the drive in that time?
A lot more than before, and more than SeX, unless math is wrong.
Maybe Cerny wet dream of making entire parts of the games jump in and off is bullshit, that doesn't change that you will be able to load in and off far more not needed assets, so you can concentrate in what the player can see and make the GPU render more details there, and free the RAM from the data you will need more in the long run. This, because you don't need to keep data in the RAM that you will need let's say in one minute, you have all the time to load it with the SSD now, so the RAM can have more "imminent" data in it. This is what SeX can do, this is what PS5 can do better, six priority levels should also grant a granular control of what to load first and after, basically divinding data in six categories instead of the two that SeX and standard SSD uses.
 
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lepermessiah

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Benchmarks. We need benchmarks. Case in point: Doom Eternal performing a tad better on PS4 Pro than the X despite the lower but largely neglible drop in res, and the delta is larger between the Pro and the X...😂

For next generation I'd prefer a solid 1440p with denser texture streaming per frame over a fixed 4K and less frames.
 

markusfenix75

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I overall agree that the reaction from some people has been crazy. I mean, just look at the pages where the reveal was going on. "Oh ghais 10.3 you were right Github I'm so sorry please make me eat shit". It's fucking ridiculous. Also yeah, the SSD space I find it crazy, now storage space is not indicated anymore as a whole but already subtracts the OS and shit? No lol
People need to stop getting ahead and think about GAMES. I'm curious how Sony will handle PS Now and first parties, the hardware they have can do exactly what SeX do but somewhat worst in some departments (higher clocks will do some things better), and that's it. It's fine, this is not what makes a console.
That said, I don't completely agree with the statements I marked in black.
Firstly, devs surely have time constraint, but I believe that generaly they also have a BIT of consideration in making their game running as good as possible on all platform. If this means making use of the Cell shit, that is too much. They actually did it later on, but it took a long while because it was a fucking strange CPU. There were devs declaring how much Cell was SHIT and a terrible idea, this is not happening with the SSD, the contrary actually. So, comparing the usage of Cell and the SSD I think is too much. It depends by the developers, sure, but maybe a lot of them will use the tech to close the gap SOMEWHAT, to free RAM and GPU a bit. Maybe not. But it's definetly not the Cell situation, also because according to Cerny the idea behind PS5 is to bring the learning curve under a month, while PS3 had the highest of all PlayStations. That means, I guess, that to use the SSD decently you will not need a big brain.
I also feel the urge to respond to the Gamepass thing, because I was one of the guys he said that is not that good in the long term.
Well, I just want to say: not everything is "damage control", sometimes is a true opinion. That's the case. I had this opinion far before any reveal of SeX, and I still have it. It will not magically change just because SeX is more powerful and now I don't want to look in damage control mode, so that's some honesty for ya actually.
And this is regarding all the "muh bias" that both Sony and MS fans spit everyday on devs that WORKS on that shit (and they fucking don't and likely ever will) or even DF: surprise, sometimes people disagree because they just fucking DON'T AGREE.
Now, last point: MS studios.
MS Studios are not sitting on their balls, that's a given. They are much probably working their ass off. Still, this doesn't give me ANY TRUST whatsoever in MS, because no matter how good the team is, bad management does it all. As well I don't have any trust in EA, Konami or Activision, they can buy all they want and pull billions out of their but, this doesn't mean fuck to me. Mind you, I don't want good games, no. I play since I'm 5 on PS1, trying do something on the first Tekken: there are far older players, but since than I played a lot, and one thing I'm sure is that I don't give a FOCK about good games anymore, I dumped Wolfenstein 2 despite being one of the best shooters out there because that is what I played since ten years ago, I'm tired. So for me MS do not only need to pull quality out, they betta take a load of inspiration and throw it at those games because otherwise my balls are gonna roll on the ground. And here is there I don't trust them, in a time where even decent games like the last Star Wars can't be polished enough for D1, it's already a lot that big teams can manage to get the bugs out of their games, let alone make great games.
So, I'm very happy MS is at least showing a far greater commitment, but it's not even nearly enough, everything can go wrong. I don't even like their platform managment, I will simply never buy an Xbox until they are like this, because I can just buy a PC, this is what they wants, they don't even consider Sony competion and in some sense they are right lol why should I care about Xbox if I didn't already own Xbox all my life and don't want to change? Because TFs? Get fucking real would you, there is no service and no games I can't fully appreciate already on PC, their idea is to make their console a simpler PC, that's not enough for me. On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, but AS A CONSOLE I'm just more curious about PS, really: probably it will have less performance on third parties, but first parties will likely do some crazy shits that you will not see elsewhere at least for a while, that's interest me more from a console perspective, not resolution. No, I don't care about PS4 vs One, I never did console war, so I don't say that because now PS5 has less TFs. Let's see how Sony handles exclusives anyway.
I'm not trying to say that one console is better then other. Because choosing a console is a really subjective thing. For me, I'm an adult with wife and children and I don't want to deal with PC, so for me argument "every first party Xbox game will be on PC" is just not valid. And also i can't afford to feed 2 consoles at once. And based on every information available i will probably choose XsX because of Game Pass. And i wouldn't change that based on specs alone, even if XsX was less powerful. If argument of some people is "I always picked Playstation so I want to stick with it" it's okay. If someone wants to switch from Xbox to PS because of exclusives, that's okay and completely valid.

If Sony was willing to take their 1st party stuff to PSNow - not necessarily day one but as a permanent additions, i would probably be more split on my decision.

But I agree. Microsoft needs to step up their game in 1st party department. That's thing probably all people (fanboys or not) can agree on.

Fact is. Every console manufacturer wants to paint their console in best picture. That's why Cerny was talking about their SSD, thats why he used max. frequencies, that's why he was talking about Tempest. Because they can't just say "Tempest will be great for 1% people that are audiophiles" or "yeah, our median clocks will be slower." That's why Microsoft is talking about DirectStorage, Velocity Architecture, and their raw power. But if fanboy can't just take everything with grain of salt and be little bitc autious and have skepticism, i don't know what to say anymore.
 
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I'm not trying to say that one console is better then other. Because choosing a console is a really subjective thing. For me, I'm an adult with wife and children and I don't want to deal with PC, so for me argument "every first party Xbox game will be on PC" is just not valid. And also i can't afford to feed 2 consoles at once. And based on every information available i will probably choose XsX because of Game Pass. And i wouldn't change that based on specs alone, even if XsX was less powerful.

If Sony was willing to take their 1st party stuff to PSNow - not necessarily day one but as a permanent additions, i would probably be more split on my decision.

But I agree. Microsoft needs to step up their game in 1st party department. That's thing probably all people (fanboys or not) can agree on.

Fact is. Every console manufacturer wants to paint their console in best picture. That's why Cerny was talking about their SSD, thats why he used max. frequencies, that's why he was talking about Tempest. Because they can't just say "Tempest will be great for 1% people that are audiophiles" or "yeah, our median clocks will be slower." That's why Microsoft is talking about DirectStorage, Velocity Architecture, and their raw power. But if fanboy can't just take everything with grain of salt and be little bitc autious and have skepticism, i don't know what to say anymore.
There are permanent first parties on PS Now, even big ones, check it.
Also yeah, not trying to tell YOU what console is better, your reasoning to chose Xbox makes absolutely sense. Just saying: I think PS is overall better for me and I talk about other things than PAWA not because this time PS5 has less raw pawa, and I tried to explain why. Probably a lot of other people does the same but they are called "fanboys" that try to justify why they will buy "the lesser console". I will buy PS5 and than a PC in few years with the 3000 series or something, I will have everything SeX does and more, thanks to MS. If someone can't get a PC, good for them to go to Xbox.
 
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markusfenix75

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There are permanent first parties on PS Now, even big ones, check it.
Also yeah, not trying to tell YOU what console is better, your reasoning to chose Xbox makes absolutely sense. Just saying: I think PS is overall better for me and I talk about other things than PAWA not because this time PS5 has less raw pawa, and I tried to explain why. Probably a lot of other people does the same but they are called "fanboys" that try to justify why they will buy "the lesser console". I will buy PS5 and than a PC in few years with the 3000 series or something, I will have everything SeX does and more, thanks to MS. If someone can't get a PC, good for them to go to Xbox.
Yup I know.

But:
1. PS Now is not supported in my country
2. There are some 1st party permanent stuff there, not all of it. Few months ago they added Horizon: Zero Dawn and after 3 months they took it away...I understand when you do it with 3rd party games, because there are contracts. But for 1st party? Just why?
 
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Yup I know.

But:
1. PS Now is not supported in my country
2. There are some 1st party permanent stuff there, not all of it. Few months ago they added Horizon: Zero Dawn and after 3 months they took it away...I understand when you do it with 3rd party games, because there are contracts. But for 1st party? Just why?
Actually Horizon is still there, it goes away the 7th of April. You may have enough time to play it for a good while.
I guess they care a lot that you actually buy their first parties, because they are in no position to give it to you for a couple of bucks, they simply do not need to like MS needs instead. I think it will arrive permanently kind of soon, but considering is arriving on PC they didn't want to give it to PC players for nothing, as PS Now is also on PC. You can't download shit, but still...
 
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markusfenix75

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Actually Horizon is still there, it goes away the 7th of April. You may have enough time to play it for a good while.
I guess they care a lot that you actually buy their first parties, because they are in no position to give it to you for a couple of bucks, they simply do not need to like MS needs instead. I think it will arrive permanently kind of soon, but considering is arriving on PC they didn't want to give it to PC players for nothing, as PS Now is also on PC. You can't download shit, but still...
My mistake. I knew Sony is taking away 1st party games from PSNow after 3 months, just was wrong about game.
 
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My mistake. I knew Sony is taking away 1st party games from PSNow after 3 months, just was wrong about game.
No actually I'm an idiot, you said PS Now is not supported in your contry, sorry lol
Well, it will arrive for sure. Probably with PS5 they will expand it even further, it just arrived in most of Europe like one year ago.
 
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JägerSeNNA

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So, if the whole internet knew the XSX specs for like a year, than Sony surely also upped specs since github leak. /s
Yes they already did it. They turned a 9.2tf GPU into the 10.2 GPU with a peak boost performance. Announcing a console with only one digit while you know,your rival already has two digits would be a suicide in terms of PR.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Yes they already did it. They turned a 9.2tf GPU into the 10.2 GPU with a peak boost performance. Announcing a console with only one digit while you know,your rival already has two digits would be a suicide in terms of PR.
So, after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering
 
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markusfenix75

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So, after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering
Just stop pretending, that one company is entirely oblivious to what's other company cooking...

Even Penello (I know you don't like the guy, but anyway) said, that during XOne development, they pretty much knew, that PS4 is better in terms of GPU power, but they believed that DDR3+ESRAM is better combo than what's Sony is doing. Only thing that caught them by surprise was 8GB RAM, which Sony famously added in "last minute" before reveal.
 

it_wasn't_me

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No. Right after GitHub leaks,SURE.
That was during Dec. 2019. XSX specs was revealed after TGA.

Like i've said : after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s
Yet, articles about Sony's cooling solution was published during summer last year. But you need to do patent test and that can last months, years, actually.

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Just stop pretending, that one company is entirely oblivious to what's other company cooking...

Even Penello (I know you don't like the guy, but anyway) said, that during XOne development, they pretty much knew, that PS4 is better in terms of GPU power, but they believed that DDR3+ESRAM is better combo than what's Sony is doing. Only thing that caught them by surprise was 8GB RAM, which Sony famously added in "last minute" before reveal.
You can't change design for chip modules in 6 months just like that. It provides further tests which also can last for months. LOL
 
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markusfenix75

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You can't change design for chip modules in 6 months just like that. It provides further tests which also can last for months. LOL
Where did i said something about "changing a chip modules 6 months like that?" Even Yoshida said, that PS4 was originally supposed to have only 4GB of GDDR5 RAM and they added 4GB later. Microsoft, according to Penello, was in the mindset, that Sony will only release PS4 with 4GB of RAM and they thought that their solution of 8GB of DDR3 + ESRAM was better.

But main point of my post was: If you think, that Sony and Microsoft doesn't have a clue what the other company is doing, you are just wrong.
 

JägerSeNNA

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Mar 23, 2020
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That was during Dec. 2019. XSX specs was revealed after TGA.

Like i've said : after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s Yet, articles about Sony's cooling solution was published during summer last year. But you need to do patent test and that can last months, years, actually.

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering.
You are so naive. You can’t build a console within 6 months. 2019 December is too late to make some radical changes on R&D’ed console. That’s why it was too late for Sony to upgrade entire GPU. They had no chance but over clocking the GPU to close the gap a bit against their rival. Even this is ONLY PEAK PERFORMANCE with a hard O.C. Probably not goona reach this requested performance at all times.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
416
890
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Hello everyone. My account is old, but I've never really used it until yesterday or so. Hence, I'm practically new here and would Iike to introduce myself. I play games infrequently due to having a full-time job and subsequently not much leisure time. However, I have all three platforms: a PS4 Pro, an Xbox One X, and a PC that I built myself back in 2016 (i.e. i7-5820k, Asus X99 Deluxe, 4x4GB Crucial 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, Samsung EVO 500GB SATA SSD, Western Digital Blue 6TB HDD and 4TB HDD, and Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD, and NZXT H440 Mid-sized Tower).

Despite supporting all three platforms, I prefer PC and PlayStation, as I see Xbox as redundant relative to PC; I got an Xbox One X for the the novelty of it. Anyhow, I'd like to know whether or not the PlayStation 5 - despite being weaker than the Xbox Series X - will at least be powerful enough to render games with good graphics at 4K at 60 frames per second.

I'd also like to know whether Sony and Microsoft are ever aware of one another's target specifications when they're designing new consoles or whether they manage to keep their targets a secret from one another. Also, why don't they shop at Nvidia?
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
4,594
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That was during Dec. 2019. XSX specs was revealed after TGA.

Like i've said : after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s
Yet, articles about Sony's cooling solution was published during summer last year. But you need to do patent test and that can last months, years, actually.

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering.
It goes both ways Sony astroturfing trying to sweep the variable clocks under the rug. Sony can make this go away show us the numbers just like they did the SSD. Charts with lowest clocks for both gpu and cpu work loads that cause it ect. Blame Sony for this if you introduce technology that can cause performance loss then you better be transparent about it not sweep it under the rug with only saying the maximum numbers.
 

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
1,711
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So, after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s
No, but that allowed them to make an Excel workbook comparing all the specs, to check if they have a number advantage somewhere, and once it turned out it's the SSD's bandwidth they were able to knock together a presentation that's almost entirely dedicated to it and finally revel the console. And I'm stretching the word "reveal" here, because nobody still has any idea how the console looks like.

Honestly, after like 9 months of complete radio silence one would though Sony will show up and wipe the floor with XBX, and that PS5 will be superior in most, if not all aspects, but the presentation look like a desperate damage control. When a guy who basically single-handedly started the whole TFlop wars says that any talk about TFlops and CUs must be avoided 9and still does it lol) you know something went wrong.
 

it_wasn't_me

Banned
May 22, 2017
1,991
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You are so naive. You can’t build a console within 6 months. 2019 December is too late to make some radical changes on R&D’ed console. That’s why it was too late for Sony to upgrade entire GPU. They had no chance but over clocking the GPU to close the gap a bit against their rival. Even this is ONLY PEAK PERFORMANCE with a hard O.C. Probably not goona reach this requested performance at all times.
I'm not naive. You, the Xbox fans, literally said that Sony upped the clocks after annonucement of XSX specs. LOL
 

it_wasn't_me

Banned
May 22, 2017
1,991
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Where did i said something about "changing a chip modules 6 months like that?" Even Yoshida said, that PS4 was originally supposed to have only 4GB of GDDR5 RAM and they added 4GB later. Microsoft, according to Penello, was in the mindset, that Sony will only release PS4 with 4GB of RAM and they thought that their solution of 8GB of DDR3 + ESRAM was better.

But main point of my post was: If you think, that Sony and Microsoft doesn't have a clue what the other company is doing, you are just wrong.
LOL. Your previous post surely implied that Sony added 8 GB memory few months before launch. That's not how it works. First and foremost Samsung, as manufacturer of these modules, they needed to do some tests.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
4,594
693
1,610
Hello everyone. My account is old, but I've never really used it until yesterday or so. Hence, I'm practically new here and would Iike to introduce myself. I play games infrequently due to having a full-time job and subsequently not much leisure time. However, I have all three platforms: a PS4 Pro, an Xbox One X, and a PC that I built myself back in 2016 (i.e. i7-5820k, Asus X99 Deluxe, 4x4GB Crucial 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, Samsung EVO 500GB SATA SSD, Western Digital Blue 6TB HDD and 4TB HDD, and Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD, and NZXT H440 Mid-sized Tower).

Despite supporting all three platforms, I prefer PC and PlayStation, as I see Xbox as redundant relative to PC; I got an Xbox One X for the the novelty of it. Anyhow, I'd like to know whether or not the PlayStation 5 - despite being weaker than the Xbox Series X - will at least be powerful enough to render games with good graphics at 4K at 60 frames per second.

I'd also like to know whether Sony and Microsoft are ever aware of one another's target specifications when they're designing new consoles or whether they manage to keep their targets a secret from one another. Also, why don't they shop at Nvidia?
Nvidia burned bridges with both Sony and Microsoft they fucked both over in the past. In the og xbox days nvidia took Microsoft to the cleaners on the contract. Nvidia provided Sony with a under powered POS gpu in the ps3 days when they could of easily did better to make more money. Plus they have no x86 processor to pair with it and they don't discount on the desktop side.
 

it_wasn't_me

Banned
May 22, 2017
1,991
3,120
395
No, but that allowed them to make an Excel workbook comparing all the specs, to check if they have a number advantage somewhere, and once it turned out it's the SSD's bandwidth they were able to knock together a presentation that's almost entirely dedicated to it and finally revel the console. And I'm stretching the word "reveal" here, because nobody still has any idea how the console looks like.

Honestly, after like 9 months of complete radio silence one would though Sony will show up and wipe the floor with XBX, and that PS5 will be superior in most, if not all aspects, but the presentation look like a desperate damage control. When a guy who basically single-handedly started the whole TFlop wars says that any talk about TFlops and CUs must be avoided 9and still does it lol) you know something went wrong.
Maybe because Sony doesn't bark like Microsoft left and right.

Xbox fans on the roll. Looks like history is repeating again like in 2013. Bunch of MS employees registered here during 2013 to spread FUD about PS4. Then ex-mod Bishop do some cleaning. Looks like now Xbox fans registering here left and right to spread FUD about PS5 even if XSX is more powerful. Well, it's not enough for them it seems. Like this guy :

Real_Agent_K Real_Agent_K PostMar 23, 2020PermanentTimdog apostle. Find something better to do with your time.
 
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markusfenix75

Member
Sep 17, 2019
189
363
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LOL. Your previous post surely implied that Sony added 8 GB memory few months before launch. That's not how it works. First and foremost Samsung, as manufacturer of these modules, they needed to do some tests.
Jesus. Just read with comprehension. Of course, Sony didn't have "no RAM" and then they added 8GB. They started with a plan to have 4GB and then added 4GB more. And this is not a guess, this is fact, confirmed by Sony.

Catching a straw?

Because you are talking about my silly mistake while writing a post, and you didn't address whole point. Nobody is saying you can change whole chip in 6 months. What i'm saying is - other company know what you are doing. Not exactly, but they have general idea. And changing clocks is easiest thing to do in terms of your console, if your cooling can allow it. So it is entirely possible, that Sony planned for lower clocks and lower performance, but when they found out what's Microsoft is doing and they knew, they don't have enough time to develop new chip, they just upped the clock to compensate. Not saying, that this is what happened, but it's possible. Otherwise i don't know why they came for that high frequency, when everybody know RDNA architecture can't handle high clocks and overclocking have diminishing return on performance (maybe RDNA 2 fixed that)
 
Feb 25, 2020
980
2,210
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Hello everyone. My account is old, but I've never really used it until yesterday or so. Hence, I'm practically new here and would Iike to introduce myself. I play games infrequently due to having a full-time job and subsequently not much leisure time. However, I have all three platforms: a PS4 Pro, an Xbox One X, and a PC that I built myself back in 2016 (i.e. i7-5820k, Asus X99 Deluxe, 4x4GB Crucial 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, Samsung EVO 500GB SATA SSD, Western Digital Blue 6TB HDD and 4TB HDD, and Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD, and NZXT H440 Mid-sized Tower).

Despite supporting all three platforms, I prefer PC and PlayStation, as I see Xbox as redundant relative to PC; I got an Xbox One X for the the novelty of it. Anyhow, I'd like to know whether or not the PlayStation 5 - despite being weaker than the Xbox Series X - will at least be powerful enough to render games with good graphics at 4K at 60 frames per second.

I'd also like to know whether Sony and Microsoft are ever aware of one another's target specifications when they're designing new consoles or whether they manage to keep their targets a secret from one another. Also, why don't they shop at Nvidia?
Good graphics? Good graphics? Yo, dude, do you have any idea of the level we are talking about? You will be able to count the fucking molecule on people faces, on both. Both can hit easily 60 fps at least, fps are a target, if devs want to make games at 60 fps they CAN, even on AAA. MS new exclusive is the last proof, they are targeting 4K 120 fps because their game allows them to, and if you are willing to use checkerboard/dynamic resolution you will be able to hit 60 fps on any game on this consoles. Otherwise you could scale down assets (which doesn't mean bad graphic AT ALL), but I guess scale res is far easier. Point is: you can make it work with adjustments at this point, not big brain engineering that requires to do crazy stuff.
If we didn't have this pixels/graphic fetish we would have hit 60 fps as a standard gens ago, Ratchet & Clank was a monster for PS2 and was 60 fps, R&C A Crank in Time was a monster for PS3 and was 60 fps. All the Battlefields are monsters but they run at 60 fps, Doom Eternal the same. Maybe they are not Horizon or RDR2, but who the fucking cares? And those are eight gen games, think about next gen.
 
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BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
416
890
415
Nvidia burned bridges with both Sony and Microsoft they fucked both over in the past. In the og xbox days nvidia took Microsoft to the cleaners on the contract. Nvidia provided Sony with a under powered POS gpu in the ps3 days when they could of easily did better to make more money. Plus they have no x86 processor to pair with it and they don't discount on the desktop side.
It seems like Nvidia has a bad reputation all around; they're criticized for selling their cards at prices that are not friendly to consumers and for abandoning support of cards in less time than AMD abandons support for theirs, as well as for (supposedly) deliberately gimping the performance of old cards via driver updates to incentivize their customers to buy their newest cards. LOL, why are they so ruthless?

However, to be fair, I read that the RSX, which they sold to Sony for the PS3, was the best that they could provide Sony in the time frame that they had; it's said that Sony came to them late in the development of the PS3 due to originally intending to have two CELL processors in the PS3 (one as the CPU and the other as the GPU) but failing to get them to work together well,
 

it_wasn't_me

Banned
May 22, 2017
1,991
3,120
395
Jesus. Just read with comprehension. Of course, Sony didn't have "no RAM" and then they added 8GB. They started with a plan to have 4GB and then added 4GB more. And this is not a guess, this is fact, confirmed by Sony.

Catching a straw?

Because you are talking about my silly mistake while writing a post, and you didn't address whole point. Nobody is saying you can change whole chip in 6 months. What i'm saying is - other company know what you are doing. Not exactly, but they have general idea. And changing clocks is easiest thing to do in terms of your console, if your cooling can allow it. So it is entirely possible, that Sony planned for lower clocks and lower performance, but when they found out what's Microsoft is doing and they knew, they don't have enough time to develop new chip, they just upped the clock to compensate. Not saying, that this is what happened, but it's possible. Otherwise i don't know why they came for that high frequency, when everybody know RDNA architecture can't handle high clocks and overclocking have diminishing return on performance (maybe RDNA 2 fixed that)
Leak during Jan. 2013. showed that PS4 has 8GB of RAM. ( https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/console-desktop-pc/jon-martindale/ps4-specs-leaked/ ) Leaked specs can be 6 months old, but leak can be published later. So, Sony had a whole year for 8 GB of RAM, maybe more, before production.
I'm not catching a straw. If cooling solution is patented, than that patent needs to get some certifications, but before certifications it needs to be tested and that can last for months or years. And surely pushing a GPU above 9 TF is not a last minute thing. Surely is planned by Cerny. You, Xbox fans are fucking tiresome with your FUD. You're frickin INSANE what you're doing.
 

Bo_Hazem

Member
Feb 10, 2020
2,377
9,912
395
34
Salalah, Oman
Personally, I think the only reason both the Pro / X arrived was for 2 reasons. Microsoft didn't want to lose the power war and wanted to make a name for the Xbox as the power king. Sony caught wind of it and made the Pro. Secondly, 4K arrived in the middle of the generation. I dont think something like that will happen again. The new consoles are very powerful and they will not want to lose footing for the generation after with a smaller leap in technology.
Remember, 8K is being normalized at the moment.




PS5 Pro is an easy guess of 72CU butterfly chiplet capable of up to 21TF. They wanna sell those TV's.
 

nosseman

Member
Mar 16, 2020
113
159
205
So, after XSX specs reveal the entire PlayStation division decided to put something together in 24hrs. /s

Why bunch of Xbox fans are registering here lately trying to spread FUD??? Maybe is that the real reason for registering
Not in 24 hours. They probably knew for a pretty long time. There is some pretty smart people working for both companys and when SDKs get sent out you can guarantee that the other side pretty much knew what you are doing.

MS knew about Sonys boosting. They KNEW weeks before the actual announcement and they told DF multiple times that their clocks where "locked" since they KNEW Sony would present PS5 in a couple of weeks with 10,28 PEAK tflops and they could say the Xbox has 12.15 SUSTAINED tflop.
 

scie

Member
Feb 9, 2020
116
294
240
I'm not trying to say that one console is better then other. Because choosing a console is a really subjective thing. For me, I'm an adult with wife and children and I don't want to deal with PC, so for me argument "every first party Xbox game will be on PC" is just not valid. And also i can't afford to feed 2 consoles at once. And based on every information available i will probably choose XsX because of Game Pass. [...]
Yep, same thing for me. During PS2 und PS3 time I spent hundreds of hours in Gran Tourismo. But Game Pass is really a no brainer. Last year in my place you could get 3 years of Game Pass Ultimate for around 120€. So my Game Pass Ultimate subscription ends in 2022. Also 3 month of Game Pass converts to 2 month of Game Pass Ultimate. I just buy 3 month of Game Pass cards for around 6-10€ (in deals), so i can get Ultimate for around 3-5€/month. Since than I never purchased any game and I don´t want to hassle with a new PC anymore and I hope PS Now will follow the route soon.
I don´t care which console is faster or not. I just want to have some fun and gaming isn´t my first prio anymore. So i follow the route which is the least expensive for me.
 

markusfenix75

Member
Sep 17, 2019
189
363
240
Leak during Jan. 2013. showed that PS4 has 8GB of RAM. ( https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/console-desktop-pc/jon-martindale/ps4-specs-leaked/ ) Leaked specs can be 6 months old, but leak can be published later. So, Sony had a whole year for 8 GB of RAM, maybe more, before production.
I'm not catching a straw. If cooling solution is patented, than that patent needs to get some certifications, but before certifications it needs to be tested and that can last for months or years. And surely pushing a GPU above 9 TF is not a last minute thing. Surely is planned by Cerny. You, Xbox fans are fucking tiresome with your FUD. You're frickin INSANE what you're doing.
Again. Slowly. PS4 was designed with 4GB RAM at first. And that's not what i'm saying. That's what Yoshida said. And it was confirmed by Penello, that Microsoft also thought, that Sony will go with 4GB RAM. Yup. I's possible, that Microsoft had info on first machine and didn't know what's Sony changing after that.

But of course, you haven't addressed my whole point, which was "One company have general idea, what you are doing with your console." and you are just spouting shit about "tiresome Xbox fans." So if you want to do that, by all means go for it.

Yup, it is possible, that Sony thought, they are the only company on the market, that can push RDNA to over 2GHz and by that save some cost, because of smaller chip. It is also possible, that they overclocked it after they found out what is Microsoft doing and it is also possible, that RDNA 2 solved all problems with high frequencies. Nobody know for sure. But arguing in way "surely is planned by Cerny" is most "fanboyish" thing to say. Just blindly believe everything he says because he is an architect of your favourite console

But if you are not willing to have civilised discussion and you want to just attack everybody who dares to question what Cerny is saying, then we have nothing to talk about.
 

ghausst

Neo Member
Jan 8, 2020
29
45
125
Not in 24 hours. They probably knew for a pretty long time. There is some pretty smart people working for both companys and when SDKs get sent out you can guarantee that the other side pretty much knew what you are doing.

MS knew about Sonys boosting. They KNEW weeks before the actual announcement and they told DF multiple times that their clocks where "locked" since they KNEW Sony would present PS5 in a couple of weeks with 10,28 PEAK tflops and they could say the Xbox has 12.15 SUSTAINED tflop.
The TF war was not enough ?
Now we have the peak flop, the sustain flop, the sleeping flop maybe....

It's Pokemon guys, gotta catch em all !!!