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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
6,981
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Salalah, Oman
They continued spreading it throughout the 90s and 2000s with FUD against any open source and/or cloud based software. Then miraculously they change their tune once they catch up and figure out how to monetise the technology themselves. They prey on the ignorant and in that respect have for many years been the anti-vaxers of the tech industry.
Great input! I like you, man, I just hope you are a blue Scouser.🤞
 

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Jan 28, 2012
6,574
3,277
1,015
Definitely going to reveal price and release date tonight. Amazon are making major changes to their landing pages.
I checked the U.S. landing page. I must have missed what it was before. It's better than Best Buy's PS5 landing page IMO.
 
Jun 13, 2020
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I work in the sector, and not as a janitor, and in past taken apart the old MC6800 layer by layer to see why they fail. So whatever.

I read semi papers every day, but not the ones you read.
So then, explain to these people what parametric yields are -funny how you forgot all your knowledge yesterday- and what is one of the most major factors that affect them.
 

YoodlePro

Member
Jul 16, 2014
545
232
465
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
I have you on ignore since when you cursed at me, but I will give you an answer just because it was I who have laughed a lot since yesterday with your "expert" opinions on fab. I never commented on them, but since you are directly quoting me and accusing me once more, here you go:

next time, before you present you "expert" opinion on fabrication process, you might want to open a book and do a read-up on physical and parametric yields, and especially for the second what are the major reasons that affect them.

and I suggest you really should do some reading, because you have some people in here believing that you are some kind of knowledgeable person about the things you comment on.

I won't be more detailed than this, and as I said I wouldnt have even commented on the hilarious things you wrote, but it seems you are asking for it :messenger_tears_of_joy:


*edit
also my "cryptic" message that you commented on is not about dynamic clocks. in fact its not so cryptic either, so I am sure that if you read it a couple more times you will understand better
Ahhh, the good old, open a book argument. I have a friend, he's a music journalist at Vice. Whenever he is cornered on a subject he comes back with "you should open a book and read on it before talking to me" and then he storms off leaving the entire group of friends.

Coming to think of it... You're HIM!!! TheGreatWhiteShark TheGreatWhiteShark you left your jacket the last time we went out drinking.
 

HawarMiran

Member
Jan 2, 2020
792
2,965
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maaaaaan I am pumped 🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆
Alsooo pumped for Abrash' presentation. Can give us a glimpse of what a future PSVR be capable off
 
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Alex Scott

Member
May 3, 2020
84
344
345
Doesn't TSMC overclock the hell out of chips before they export them and test them in various environments to make sure that chips can perform similarly and also to make sure that chipswon't explode.
And why would a Chinese factoriy know how the chip perform. All they do is assemble the PS5 there.

I think i trust RGT more.
 
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FunkMiller

Formerly 'Neil_b4Zod'
Aug 14, 2014
1,839
6,674
730
I checked the U.S. landing page. I must have missed what it was before. It's better than Best Buy's PS5 landing page IMO.
I had the Ps5 and all its peripherals saved in my shopping list, but when I try to go to the pages now, they've been taken down. Not seeing them come up on Amazon US anymore either. This means that they're retooling the page to add pricing and release date details. When stuff like that has to be populated, this is what happens.
 

geordiemp

Gold Member
Sep 5, 2013
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So then, explain to these people what parametric yields are -funny how you forgot all your knowledge yesterday- and what is one of the most major factors that affect them.
Except for normal particulate and process defects, engineering would do HTOL tests in ovens at elevated temps to accelarate bath tub, automative also do cold tests but thats another story, also testing on ATE on die and chips at elevated temps.

For 7nm+ the critical layers around the FinFET will be using EUV Litho, likely 4 or 5 layers or so, so the variances will be tigher

DO you not thing this will have been engineered to death and back ?

Out of interest, when a chip fails on an ATE, do you think a chip manufacterer knows why ? Do you know whats involved in stripping layers and looking for a needle in a haystack ? LOL

Also its a poor attemp to attack Ps5 clock frequency, the real question is why is XSX at 1.8 Ghz ? Its been designed primarily as a 4 instance server, but MS dont seem to have optimised the design as a console. XSX is supposed to be wide, but still has 4 shader arrays....go figure.
 
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JonnyMP3

Member
May 31, 2020
1,557
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365
It's character building. Or at least that is what I am trying to tell my kids, in the long run it will serve them well getting used to disappointment on an annual basis :messenger_grinning:
I mean Leeds are back after almost 20 years.. It can happen!
But that points record though... :messenger_mr_smith_who_are_you_going_to_call:

But anyways, more importantly... Fuck Forest!
 
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geordiemp

Gold Member
Sep 5, 2013
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Doesn't TSMC overclock the hell out of chips before they export them and test them in various environments to make sure that chips can perform similarly and also to make sure that chipswon't explode.
And why would a Chinese factoriy know how the chip perform. All they do is assemble the PS5 there.

I think i trust RGT more.
Correct,

All chips have a percentage set aside for reliability testing, in ovens, higher frequency and voltage to stress test life, called HTOL.

Chips in final test are often tested on ATE at elevated temps (85C), you need to weed out week ones anyway as they will fail early.

Question is, would you want a weak chip in your new console ?

Stricter testing is better for the consumer.
 
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Mar 27, 2020
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Except for normal particulate and process defects, engineering would do HTOL tests in ovens at elevated temps to accelarate bath tub, automative also do cold tests but thats another story, also testing on ATE on die and chips at elevated temps.

For 7nm+ the critical layers around the FinFET will be using EUV Litho, likely 4 or 5 layers or so, so the variances will be tigher

DO you not thing this will have been engineered to death and back ?

Out of interest, when a chip fails on an ATE, do you think a chip manufacterer knows why ? Do you know whats involved in stripping layers and looking for a needle in a haystack ? LOL

Also its a poor attemp to attack Ps5 clock frequency, the real question is why is XSX at 1.8 Ghz ? Its been designed primarily as a 4 instance server, but MS dont seem to have optimised the design as a console. XSX is supposed to be wide, but still has 4 shader arrays....go figure.


Correct,

All chips have a percentage set aside for reliability testing, in ovens, higher frequency and voltage to stress test life, called HTOL.

Chips in final test are often tested on ATE at elevated temps (85C), you need to weed out week ones anyway as they will fail early.

Question is, would you want a weak chip in your new console ?

Stricter testing is better for the consumer.
Ovens eh?

Now I feel like having a tasty pizza baked in a brick oven.
 
Jun 13, 2020
1,581
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Except for normal particulate and process defects, engineering would do HTOL tests in ovens at elevated temps to accelarate bath tub, automative also do cold tests but thats another story, also testing on ATE on die and chips at elevated temps.

For 7nm+ the critical layers around the FinFET will be using EUV Litho, likely 4 or 5 layers or so, so the variances will be tigher

DO you not thing this will have been engineered to death and back ?

Out of interest, when a chip fails on an ATE, do you think a chip manufacterer knows why ? Do you know whats involved in stripping layers and looking for a needle in a haystack ? LOL

Also its a poor attemp to attack Ps5 clock frequency, the real question is why is XSX at 1.8 Ghz ? Its been designed primarily as a 4 instance server, but MS dont seem to have optimised the design as a console. XSX is supposed to be wide, but still has 4 shader arrays....go figure.
So, in plain words so that everyone can understand, we are not talking about PHYSICAL defects (like you talked yesterday) or maturity of process here, but for factors that would attribute more to design.
Successfully fabricated chips are tested for being able to perform at the desired level.
we know what happens on pc-side of things with this procedure: you have your 5700, 5700XT and 5700 special edition, all from the same fab.
tell me, what is the determining factor that these chips make their way to different products?


oh, and if you are going to discuss technical stuff, its better you leave out the "bu-bu-but xbox" stuff. in fact, iirc there were rumors that microsoft initially had planned for a little lower clocks, but they increased later on. that's for sure a sign about how their process is going.
 
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Jitzu

Member
Jun 4, 2016
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It's a tweet from 2019. Don't worry, I got caught out too. Maybe OP can add this to their post?
Forgot to mention that it was from back in 2019. Not exactly sure how long this tweet has been pinned on his twitter profile, equally, If it was recently pinned then I have high hopes for tomorrow!
 

banjo5150

Member
Oct 12, 2010
261
53
655
100% on the musicianship and technical side: if you play and love guitar then you can probably do a good job of covering anything off of Master of Puppets or Justice after 6 beers with just a few years of training; by contrast, doing anything from Rust “correctly” requires 6 meth tablets and a good night of sleep... and it’ll still sound wrong.
Couldn't have said it better, awesome analogy! I do play guitar and I have hell of a time with a lot of the stuff on Rust in Peace.

Man cant wait for this PS5 event. I just feel Sony has gamers best interest in mind IMO. I dont give a damn about power/tflops just show me what Sony studios are doing! I would take a 4TF PS5 with those studios behind it and be happy! You know Cerny's team when designing this thing, had to have unbelievable input from top tier devs ND/ICE Team, Guerilla, ect on what is needed to achieve amazing results. I have no worries the PS5 will deliver.
 

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
Jan 28, 2012
6,574
3,277
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"If you can't explain something in simple terms, then you don't understand it yourself"
-Richard Feynman, father of quantum computing and nanotechnology
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke, British author, inventor and futurist
- I don't know how magic works, and I don't care. I am just amazed when it does. - Darklor01

I can't wait to see these magics in November!
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
12,430
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So, in plain words so that everyone can understand, we are not talking about PHYSICAL defects (like you talked yesterday) or maturity of process here, but for factors that would attribute more to design.
Successfully fabricated chips are tested for being able to perform at the desired level.
we know what happens on pc-side of things with this procedure: you have your 5700, 5700XT and 5700 special edition, all from the same fab.
tell me, what is the determining factor that these chips make their way to different products?


oh, and if you are going to discuss technical stuff, its better you leave out the "bu-bu-but xbox" stuff. in fact, iirc there were rumors that microsoft initially had planned for a little lower clocks, but they increased later on. that's for sure a sign about how their process is going.
We’ve already heard from AMD and Sony on the matter. You’re just wasting your breath at this point.

 

NY_Metropolitan

Neo Member
Jan 14, 2020
21
40
135
Predictions:

Price - $459 for the Standard Edition/$399 for the Digital Edition.

Launch Date - November 13.

Pre-orders - Tomorrow for the PSN folks, Friday for everyone else.

Games: Miles Morales Gameplay, God of War Teaser, new SOCOM, Uncharted teaser.


Hardware specs, price on controllers, etc.
 
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raul3d

Neo Member
Mar 30, 2020
48
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So, in plain words so that everyone can understand, we are not talking about PHYSICAL defects (like you talked yesterday) or maturity of process here, but for factors that would attribute more to design.
Successfully fabricated chips are tested for being able to perform at the desired level.
we know what happens on pc-side of things with this procedure: you have your 5700, 5700XT and 5700 special edition, all from the same fab.
tell me, what is the determining factor that these chips make their way to different products?


oh, and if you are going to discuss technical stuff, its better you leave out the "bu-bu-but xbox" stuff. in fact, iirc there were rumors that microsoft initially had planned for a little lower clocks, but they increased later on. that's for sure a sign about how their process is going.
Oh no, we are back to "Sony overclocked the PS5 GPU to react to Microsofts 12TF and now they cannot produce enough chips with that spec" FUD? Now he is also "investigating" (as in producing) his on facts of the production. I'd say it is clear that he is now part of the XBox discord group.

Guys: As amusing as his fanatic anti-PS5 FUD might be from time to time, please ignore his statements and not reply anymore. His continues derailing of the thread is really annoying.
 

geordiemp

Gold Member
Sep 5, 2013
9,917
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So, in plain words so that everyone can understand, we are not talking about PHYSICAL defects (like you talked yesterday) or maturity of process here, but for factors that would attribute more to design.
Successfully fabricated chips are tested for being able to perform at the desired level.
we know what happens on pc-side of things with this procedure: you have your 5700, 5700XT and 5700 special edition, all from the same fab.
tell me, what is the determining factor that these chips make their way to different products?


oh, and if you are going to discuss technical stuff, its better you leave out the "bu-bu-but xbox" stuff. in fact, iirc there were rumors that microsoft initially had planned for a little lower clocks, but they increased later on. that's for sure a sign about how their process is going.
I will keep it simple for you, Sony will have designed the cooling tech, 2 patents and liquid metal Ga eutectic, to be sufficient to accept the range of parameters of the silicon process. If you think Sony are chucking away allot of chips, then again best go back to being ignored. Engineering is impiortant as its technical and cost efficiency to be a good solution, and Cerny was happy with it.

Sony expect most non defect die to go into a product that is selling > 100 million over the lifetime, and clocks, cooling and application will be designed around that.

The disabled CU is to account for particulate defects primarily, luck, and if a part of a chip fails, its often not worth the effort in reverse engineering it.

Remember RDNA2 is not RDNA1, we will get PC clocks close to Ps5 as well, and probably just under given bigger DIE if they use Sony cooling - so 2 + GHz....I wonder if Sony shared their patents with AMD ?

With MS, they have a bigger die, but much lower clocks, wide except for the shader arrays which are same number. I get they clocked low for server, but why has the console also go a low clock for RDNA2. When pC parts come out, it will be clearer.

At moment we have 2 data points on frequency and 2 die sizes to consider. So you can say ps5 is high, I can say XSX is low. PC parts will settle this.
 
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Jun 13, 2020
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You started this little dick waving contest in fairness.
Did I? I remember responding to sircaw's friendly jab

And this post you quoted of course was not a jab to cornholio, as he is very correct in what he is expressing there.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke, British author, inventor and futurist
- I don't know how magic works, and I don't care. I am just amazed when it does. - Darklor01

I can't wait to see these magics in November!
(y)
Sure, but then one should not be interested in technology discussions, and even more should not try to misrepresent/misinterpret technical details.
 
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Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
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Sony outright called out Bloomberg and said it's false and adding their response to the article, yet here you are still believing the FUD? hardly surprising coming from you though.
Your overlord has spoken and have struct down the FUD demons. Kneel at the alter and bathe in the glorious word of your lord from on high. Really, there is no need to be upset.