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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Oh look, a fresh account with the war chest narrative. Who'd have thought. Welcome, warrior.

The head of xbox has only in the last few years reported directly to Satya.

The Xbox division of today is a different beast to the launch version of Xbox One. Large companies make mistakes all the time. Large companies also change and shift their focus too, to turn things around.

 
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geordiemp

Member
The head of xbox has only in the last few years reported directly to Satya.

The Xbox division of today is a different beast to the launch version of Xbox One. Large companies make mistakes all the time. Large companies also change and shift their focus too, to turn things around.


I look forward to my free XSX and my free 10 games with 5 years subscription of gold and game pass thanks to the infinite war chest to buy my custom.

I wonder if Apple will also give me my free Iphone 11 pro.

Is it lunchtime yet, I am bored and hungry FFS.



Is that you timdog ?
 

3liteDragon

Member
Microsoft usually do these Inside Xbox events or drop news/announcements in the beginning of the week, the fact that they're doing Inside Xbox on a Thursday tells me Sony could be doing something tomorrow (console design reveal/teardown).

And plus, 05/05/20. This is a PERFECT marketing oppurtunity for Sony, revealing the fifth console on the fifth day of the fifth month (and on a Tuesday lol). Fingers crossed...🤞
 
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Microsoft usually do these Inside Xbox events or drop news/announcements in the beginning of the week, the fact that they're doing Inside Xbox on a Thursday tells me Sony could be doing something tomorrow (console design reveal/teardown).

And plus, 05/05/20. This is a PERFECT marketing oppurtunity for Sony, revealing the fifth console on the fifth day of the fifth month (and on a Tuesday lol). Fingers crossed...🤞
True but I keep hearing from few guys with connections nothing is happening tomorrow. So we shouldn't keep our hopes up unfortunately 😕
 
I look forward to my free XSX and my free 10 games with 5 years subscription of gold and game pass thanks to the infinite war chest to buy my custom.

I wonder if Apple will also give me my free Iphone 11 pro.

Is it lunchtime yet, I am bored and hungry FFS.



Is that you timdog ?


What a strange post. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm saying Microsoft will fund a major 3rd party game to hit day 1 on GamePass. Within 6-12 months of launch. I said they can afford it, due to the change of focus at Microsoft, explained in previous post.

We will see if this comes true or not.

There's no need to spout random nonsense.
 

Uzupedro

Member
The head of xbox has only in the last few years reported directly to Satya.
In fact, there is no lie in his speech, but it is also a fact that there is a limit on how much they can invest, every generation there is this “Infinite Money from MS” discourse, in a certain degree they make use of this artifice, but never at the level at which they sell, because it is obvious that there is a spending ceiling, they will not throw money away forever.
This I predict, I may be wrong and I even hope, after all it would be better for them to be able to use this for longer. But I maintain my position that it is premature to lean on the idea that MS because it is rich as it is, means that XBOX will be able to use this money whenever it wants
 

sircaw

Banned
Microsoft usually do these Inside Xbox events or drop news/announcements in the beginning of the week, the fact that they're doing Inside Xbox on a Thursday tells me Sony could be doing something tomorrow (console design reveal).

And plus, 05/05/20. This is a PERFECT markting oppurtunity for Sony, revealing the fifth console on the fifth day of the fifth month (and on a Tuesday lol). Fingers crossed...🤞

I personally think if its scheduled for a Thursday, they are trying to limit Sony's response. The last thing Ms wants from a marketing perspective is to have a reveal on a Tuesday only to have Sony come out later that week and steal all their thunder with a quick retort.

Having it, the show, at the end of the week means it ends up being Microsoft's week as Sony don't really have time to respond.

This could be one option, at least in my eyes.
 

splattered

Member
Microsoft usually do these Inside Xbox events or drop news/announcements in the beginning of the week, the fact that they're doing Inside Xbox on a Thursday tells me Sony could be doing something tomorrow (console design reveal/teardown).

And plus, 05/05/20. This is a PERFECT marketing oppurtunity for Sony, revealing the fifth console on the fifth day of the fifth month (and on a Tuesday lol). Fingers crossed...🤞

05/05/20 I like that! I hope Sony goes for that, its smart 👍

I know I poke at Sony a lot just for fun but I really am excited to finally see the console and some new 1st party stuff!
 

3liteDragon

Member
I personally think if its scheduled for a Thursday, they are trying to limit Sony's response. The last thing Ms wants from a marketing perspective is to have a reveal on a Tuesday only to have Sony come out later that week and steal all their thunder with a quick retort.

Having it, the show, at the end of the week means it ends up being Microsoft's week as Sony don't really have time to respond.

This could be one option, at least in my eyes.
One possible response Sony can have is have a separate teardown stream on Friday, I mean, I don't think that's a stretch right? Here what I think's gonna happen, if we get a reveal tomorrow, we'll get a console design reveal with a FULL hardware-related features blowout, then a teardown premiere scheduled for a later date.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The funny thing about this whole war chest theory is that the PlayStation brand is literally what's making Sony profitable and relevant. Their insurance business is profitable but PlayStation accounts for a massive portion of their revenue and profit, and yet they had to make some pretty price conscious decisions when it came to the apu size and ram bandwidth.

MS, just like Sony, is bound by the same budget limitations.
 

sircaw

Banned
One possible response Sony can have is have a separate teardown stream on Friday, I mean, I don't think that's a stretch right? Here what I think's gonna happen, if we get a reveal tomorrow, we'll get a console design reveal with a FULL hardware-related features blowout, then a teardown premiere scheduled for a later date.

I think it is possible, i am just not sure on two things, how responsive media is going to be towards the end of the week, most people are dreaming of the weekend by Friday. A start of the week, is well there is not alot to focus on besides work and getting articles out there. By this i mean, how much will Sony limit their exposure by showing something on a Friday in terms of media.

Secondly it all depends on how Ruthless Sony want's to be. They are the market leaders and it might be a unpopular thing to say for a few people on this forum but i suspect most people are more interested in Sony's presentation than a Microsoft one.

It is also very possible that Sony just don't care about Microsoft and will schedule their event when they deem fit, they know their product, games etc are awesome and feel next to no pressure.
 
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saintjules

Member
Microsoft usually do these Inside Xbox events or drop news/announcements in the beginning of the week, the fact that they're doing Inside Xbox on a Thursday tells me Sony could be doing something tomorrow (console design reveal/teardown).

And plus, 05/05/20. This is a PERFECT marketing oppurtunity for Sony, revealing the fifth console on the fifth day of the fifth month (and on a Tuesday lol). Fingers crossed...🤞

I was actually going to comment about when Sony will try and derail their Thursday event. They did it recently with DualSense. Seems Tuesdays is the magic day of the week usually.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
You can call it one block, two blocks, whatever you like, the whole thing is one piece of silicon with two fixed function areas for each decompression method. You are nitpicking.

Regarding 22GB/s, it’s an edge case not relevant to anything but a cool bullet point by Cerny. Developer won’t be able to stream data at 22GB/s, but sometimes, at some very rare instance, when all the planets align, some piece of data will enjoy 75% compression and as result will transfer at 22GB/s. Every piece of data about Kraken and even Cerny himself tells us that Kraken will give us ~35% compression.
It is one hardware decompression block and I'm not nitpicking. I'm going by what Microsoft themselves said. If it was nitpicking why aren't you also saying PS5 has 2 blocks since PS5 hardware decompression block supports both zlib and kraken?

The 22GB/s is not an edge case, it is the literal hardware specification. it does not require all planets to align nor does it require cthulhu to grace us with his presence. It is a case where data compresses really well and going by previous Sony research there are lots of places where data can compress really well like geometry and animation data can compress anywhere from 75% to 98% and texture data compresses between 40% to 60% and those were on zlib.

Kraken compresses better than zlib. And you're making up stuff now, Mark Cerny said typical, not the highest level of compression was 5.5GB to 8GB - 9GB that's a compression factor of 31% to 38% and up to 75% if the data compresses really well at the highest level. And like I said above Sony's own research shows that geometry and animation data compresses really well between 75% to 98%.

We don't have a lot of data on kraken because it is proprietary but what we have shows that kraken compresses better than zlib but where it really shines is the decompression speed. Compression is trivial, where you want the speed is on decompression because that determines how fast you can move data from storage to RAM hence the ridiculously fast 22GB/s hardware decompression block.

They didn't add it because it was a cool bullet point like you put it. It should be obvious at this point that Sony is going for speed, 3.5GHz CPU, 2.23GHz GPU, 5.5GB/s SSD, 22GB/s decompression block and lots of ASIC that aid in the movement of data at high speed. They said their goal was to eliminate load times and remove developer barriers when it comes to moving data.
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chart
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DaGwaphics

Member
He was giving the example of how the asymmetrical bus width will effect once the RAM runs out of it. But anyways let us assume his theory is wrong. The only reason I think Microsoft went with this setup is that they do not think more than 10GB will not be used this gen ?

I'd say they went this way because they needed the bandwidth to hit their render targets and didn't want to go 20GB because of the cost of GDDR6. They are assuming that no more than 10GB will be needed for Vram on the system, which is probably a safe bet considering the total available to devs is 13.5GB. The CPU and Audio will need some memory too.
 

sircaw

Banned


I tell you what the most scary thing is about all of this, its not how misaligned his way of critical thinking is or his refusal to escape the self absorbed echo chamber/bubble from the likes of dealer and co, its that's he actually has patrons that actively give him money to support this kinda of crap.

I have watched Redgamingtech for a long time, they are solid, it saddens me their name is sort of being dragged in the mud by these fools.
 

Old Empire.

Member
Most PlayStation fans got no clue about specs, think the PS5 possesses some secret sauce Sony forgot to reveal (nonsense) . It is similar noise to the xbox one (secret GPU) talk. Reality is the Xbox One X is more powerful and that will not alter ever. It does not mean Sony can not have great first party games with 9 teraflop up clock variable machine remember everyone seen god of war on an inferior machine.
 
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Radical_3d

Member
Most PlayStation fans got no clue about specs, think the PS5 possesses some secret sauce Sony forgot to reveal (nonsense) . It is similar noise to the xbox one (secret GPU) talk. Reality is the Xbox One X is more powerful and that will not alter ever. It does not mean Sony can not have great first party games with 9 teraflop up clock variable machine remember everyone seen god of war on an inferior machine.
So, being the PS5 less powerful, why do you lie about its performance?
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Most PlayStation fans got no clue about specs, think the PS5 possesses some secret sauce Sony forgot to reveal (nonsense) . It is similar noise to the xbox one (secret GPU) talk. Reality is the Xbox One X is more powerful and that will not alter ever. It does not mean Sony can not have great first party games with 9 teraflop up clock variable machine remember everyone seen god of war on an inferior machine.

.....This is categorically and 100% wrong :messenger_winking:

Or is it sarcasm? There is no /s.....
 
It is similar noise to the xbox one (secret GPU) talk

It really isn't the same thing because that secret GPU was supposed to be disabled and located in the Xbox Ones power brick. Then Microsoft would enable it at the last minute for a gotcha moment. Plus that rumor was made up by Mister X Media.

This one is alot more sensible than that. Its basically a speculation that both the XSX and the PS5 can have some features from RDNA3. Not every single thing has been revealed yet so there's speculation that due to an NDA with AMD they can't talk about RDNA3 features yet.

It's a very interesting discussion and it's nowhere near anything unrealistic like Mr. Xs made up rumors.
 

Old Empire.

Member
So, being the PS5 less powerful, why do you lie about its performance?

What do you mean by lie?

You tuned in to the presentation Sony confirmed the clocks are variable and that means the machine will jump up and down in performance. With demanding games, the performance might drop below 10TF to keep a steady frame rate. Last thing you want is unsmooth gameplay.
 
Been reading the XSX DF deep dive article this morning and noticed two things I missed previously.

The first thing is that the XSX SoC is what will be used for xCloud servers. I thought they might have used the Lockhart SoC (Sparkman?) first and then upgraded to the XSX SoC later after cost reduction. The second thing is the RAM arrangement. It states 10GB (5 2GB chips) is GPU optimal @560GB/s and 3.5GB/2.5GB is standard running @336GB/s for CPU/OS. What happens to the other 2GB chip? Why not do 5 of each 2GB/1GB chip? Probably missed something here but thought I'd ask.

It's six 2GB chips four 1GB chips. 10 chips total.

In order to get the full 560GB/s you have to be accessing all 10 chips at the same time.

So the 1st 1GB of all 10 chips = the GPU optimal memory.

The slower 6GB of memory is 100% on the 2GB memory chips, but not the entirety of the 2GB chips, just the second 1GB after the first 1GB which belongs to GPU optimal memory.

In other words, when Series X is only accessing the slower pool, it's only accessing the six 2GB chips, but the second 1GB portion of memory as the first 1GB is reserved for the faster GPU optimal memory.

Basically Microsoft reserved specific memory addresses on the 16GB pool of RAM to be strictly for the higher speed 560GB/s and another set of memory addresses (all from the 2GB chips) for the slower standard memory. The reason it is this way is because there is a mixture of 2GB and 1GB chips. If it were all 2GB chips, this wouldn't be an issue, but then Series X would have 20GB of RAM instead and no doubt cost more to produce, meanwhile memory bandwidth would be the same 560GB/s.

I think what you're asking is why don't Microsoft just use five of the 2GB/ chip to get their GPU optimal memory? If Microsoft were to do it that way then memory bandwidth for GPU optimal memory would only be 280GB/s. Each memory chip on the 320 bit memory interface is producing 56GB/s of speed. 5 * 56 would get you only 280GB/s.

So in order to get far more bandwidth, the 1st 1GB of all 2GB chips and the entirety of the 1GB chips is how Microsoft instead gets their 10GB of GPU optimal memory cause then that is 10 chips * 56 for the total 560GB/s.

Basically, one important way Microsoft could use the slower 6GB (or 3.5GB left over for games) is that they can keep data in the slower portion that they plan to eventually use in the faster GPU optimal and just quickly change the memory address of where the data is. Essentially the 3.5GB left over for game becomes a super fast data cache so to speak that's way faster than their SSD (or any SSD).

This is likely made all the easier by the fact that the slower 6GB is on the same exact memory chips as the 10GB GPU optimal memory. Remember, there six 2GB memory chips in total in the system and the slower portion is on the second 1GB section of all six 2GB chips. Basically, it will work out very well because it's a console. On a PC it would be very problematic because developers couldn't more specifically target how they use the memory. On a console it's a non-issue. It's something they have to consider when designing, but it won't actually be an issue.
 
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sircaw

Banned
It is getting hard to discuss anything on these forums it seems, Everything always seems to be boil down to people playing some sort of one-upmanship game response.

I don't not know why people feel so insecure about a possible feature another piece of plastic might have or not have.
I think its time for a good break.
 

Old Empire.

Member
This one is alot more sensible than that. Its basically a speculation that both the XSX and the PS5 can have some features from RDNA3. Not every single thing has been revealed yet so there's speculation that due to an NDA with AMD they can't talk about RDNA3 features yet.

It's a very interesting discussion and it's nowhere near anything unrealistic like Mr. Xs made up rumors.

RDN3 performance is based on the size of the die, the nanometer. RDNA2 on 7 nanometer die. If there is some unknown RDN3 features, it still restricted to 7nm die process. Personally i think its bullshit since RDNA2 is a leap already.

5nm will have better performance and watt then 7nm
 

Radical_3d

Member
What do you mean by lie?

You tuned in to the presentation Sony confirmed the clocks are variable and that means the machine will jump up and down in performance. With demanding games, the performance might drop below 10TF to keep a steady frame rate. Last thing you want is unsmooth gameplay.
Ok, I see that you are not lying, you merely didn’t understand the feature. But once you don’t use the official number (10,3) why stop at 9? It’s a 8TF machine. Barely. When it’s sunny.
 
Most PlayStation fans got no clue about specs, think the PS5 possesses some secret sauce Sony forgot to reveal (nonsense) . It is similar noise to the xbox one (secret GPU) talk. Reality is the Xbox One X is more powerful and that will not alter ever. It does not mean Sony can not have great first party games with 9 teraflop up clock variable machine remember everyone seen god of war on an inferior machine.
There is no up clock 9 tf machine . Its a 10.3 tf machine with variable frequency which in worst case scenario and rarely makes it 10.1 tf to keep the fan from going into overdrive mode (2% drop in frequency to drop the power draw by 10% according to cerny).

Dealer and windows central and brad sams (all MS prs and non technical people ) created this lie that ps5 is 9.2 tf because in github last year ps5 gpu clock was 2ghz leading to 9.2 tf.

However they forget to mention xsx clock was 1.6ghz at the same time last year in github. Both increased clock by 0.25 ghz in the retail unit .

Its being disingenuous by saying ps5 is 9.2 tf cause last year it had 2 ghz clock . If so then xsx is 10.4 tf (1.6 ghz clock of last year) and boosted to 12 tf last minute . No proof given just BS. Making up stuff is easy.but that shit doesn't fly here only for viewers of dealer and readers of windows central . Sorry take that BS back to dealer comment section.

Thanks
 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
Man, this is something I don't understand. That's for the motherboard? Where do they make the dies? Sorry but I'm confused as I'm just learning most of it lately. Thanks in advance.

It is a silicon wafer that hopefully 100-200 APU dies will yielded from:

Chip_making_110_12.jpg


Now I always wondered what 'diffused in Taiwan' (TSMC), and 'made in Malaysia' that is stamped on console APU dies meant. I deduced that after coming from the above wafer these dies/APUs are sent to Malaysia (possibly TF AMD plant in Penang) and assembled/packaged before being sent to the console assembly plant (XSX plant might be at Pegatron in Suzhou, China).

That's just me speculating though.
 

Old Empire.

Member
Ok, I see that you are not lying, you merely didn’t understand the feature. But once you don’t use the official number (10,3) why stop at 9? It’s a 8TF machine. Barely. When it’s sunny.

I not here to persuade you. The PS5 has 36cus and Xbox one X has 52cus somehow you guys think the performance across the board will be same on both machines. PC graphic cards companies should give up making better GPUs then, since the properties of GPUs don’t matter. It’s delusional thinking. Sony knows the clock can’t be sustained that why they said variable (context is in the word there meaning behind it.)
 
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I not here to persuade you. The PS5 has 36cus and Xbox one X has 52cus somehow you guys think the performance across the board will be same on both machines. PC graphic cards companies should give up making better GPUs then, since the properties of GPUs don’t matter. It’s delusional thinking. Sony knows the clock can’t be sustained that why they said variable (context is in the word there meaning behind it.)
U sound like someone who is not very technical hence u shouldn't be pushing technical conversations.

Xsx is stronger than ps5 by 18% in gpu power . No one is saying other wise. 10.3 tf vs 12.1 gives u 18% performance edge . The tf figure already has the CU count and clocks in it as both contribute to the performance of the chip on gpu side .
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
It is a silicon wafer that hopefully 100-200 APU dies will yielded from:

Chip_making_110_12.jpg


Now I always wondered what 'diffused in Taiwan' (TSMC), and 'made in Malaysia' that is stamped on console APU dies meant. I deduced that after coming from the above wafer these dies/APUs are sent to Malaysia (possibly TF AMD plant in Penang) and assembled/packaged before being sent to the console assembly plant (XSX plant might be at Pegatron in Suzhou, China).

That's just me speculating though.

Malaysia is a very well-organized country. I passed by their tech factories/towers as they're located in a separate district, and how they throw most of their government-related buildings out of the crowded parts of Kuala lumpur. Might have long stays in that wonderful country when I retire.:messenger_smiling_hearts:
 

FranXico

Member
I not here to persuade you. The PS5 has 36cus and Xbox one X has 52cus somehow you guys think the performance across the board will be same on both machines. PC graphic cards companies should give up making better GPUs then, since the properties of GPUs don’t matter. It’s delusional thinking. Sony knows the clock can’t be sustained that why they said variable (context is in the word there meaning behind it.)
It cannot be more than what github said.

Github proves the PS5 is shit.
RT in the hardware is a lie.
RDNA2 is a lie.

The only thing github got wrong is the CU count. It isn't 36. It's 35, because one of them is used on that Tempest crap, which taxes that puny CPU even more.

They must suffer like we suffered!

joking, of course
 
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