Absolutely.
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Next Generation Gameplay
- Thread starter Razzorn34
- Start date
Absolutely.
Razzorn34
Member
Sure there is. Mario 64 is a good example. It leverages the hardware to provide gameplay that couldn't be done on the SNES.
We'd also have to think up a way to destroy the established genres that have been around and being refined and cemented as standards for decades so in many ways that's also easier said than done.
The most modern example of this is combining RPG elements with other genres like, real time action, first person shooting and so on.
Mario was simply applying the platforming genre Mario had always been in a 3D environment. The jump to 3D allowed that sort of thing, but it was not defined by hardware generations specifically, and Mario has not had a jump that big since.
You'd need an industry and technological change on the level of going to 2D to 3D to have something similar to that i'd say happen again.
I don't even personally think VR could go that far. Its just another form of controlling what we've been doing with a controller already.
Bornstellar
Member
Titanfall still a gen ahead of every other mp fps.
nycgamer4ever
Member
AND it's also on last gen systems so how can it be both last gen and next gen gameplay?
Physics is still a huge segment missing from games mostly because of the power it requires.
Developers are still learning the Compute/Async functions of GPUs, they could start using it.
I think part of the issue is that while real world physics simulation would be great for fluids, gases, destructible and mold able environments, there has to be some great gameplay there to support this.
I'd actually love a game with soft body physics on the environement for a game like the Souls series or Bloodborne. Smaller weapons allow for faster attacks in a smaller area but bounce off or deflect when hitting pillars, walls, etc.
However your gigantic man sized warhammer smashes through pillars, walls and enemies alike. Almost like a much grander in depth extension of the destruction in MGS Rising when using blade mode.
NAKEDCOWBOY
Neo Member
FTL
The whole iDroid and helicopter mechanic in MGSV is just mind blowing and is the most next-gen thing i've seen.
You can call in a helicopter at any time to drop you weapons, gadgets, a different buddy etc. and it only takes a few seconds with no loading times.
Or call a heli to attack a village so the guards attention is on the heli and you can sneak by.
Just two examples of almost endless options.
The fact that a cross-gen game has the most next-gen gameplay says a lot. OP didn't say it needs to be a next-gen only game.
You can call in a helicopter at any time to drop you weapons, gadgets, a different buddy etc. and it only takes a few seconds with no loading times.
Or call a heli to attack a village so the guards attention is on the heli and you can sneak by.
Just two examples of almost endless options.
The fact that a cross-gen game has the most next-gen gameplay says a lot. OP didn't say it needs to be a next-gen only game.
I had this notion in mind when I made my list in the other thread. Given that visuals, while better than ever in some respects, are a diminishing return on investment. I'll repost my list in here with some reasons:
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor for the Nemesis system obviously. Adding an additional meta layer on a pretty bland open world template is surprisingly effective. Adds a ton of variability to a genre that once lauded for it's possibilities, has become pretty stagnant.
Metal Gear Solid V The sheer number of systems that interact with each other. A lot of it feels like that standard Kojima attention to detail, but it meshes really well in the open world/open mission structure.
Undertale while probably the biggest stretch of the "next gen" moniker, and I admit it's more just a clever take on certain game tropes. But whenever a game before tried to tackle "morality," it fell on it's face. Undertale builds it's whole gameplay around that concept and makes it tangible in a way that I don't think has ever been done before.
Kerbal Space Program When other games get praised for scale and scope, it always seems to be undermined, especially in games where there's fast travel and other conceits. Building your ship and managing your means to get to where you're going makes that scope feel real.
Super Mario Maker is the realization of the dream of game creation within a game. It felt like a failed promise with games like Little Big Planet.
Splatoon while also flipping shooters on his head, they also set a new example on how to keep your multiplayer game "fresh" in those post-release months where multiplayer games usually drop off considerably.
P.T. is how next-gen game announcements should be handled more often. Blows any trailer out of the water.
Lastly, regarding the "but it could also be done on last gen!" argument. You're going to run up against more hard-limits graphically than you are gameplay-wise when discussing what can and can't be done. I think it's fair to say "next gen gameplay" is both what can be done because of hardware, and concepts and ideas that have been born out of moving out of a "last gen" way of designing games.
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor for the Nemesis system obviously. Adding an additional meta layer on a pretty bland open world template is surprisingly effective. Adds a ton of variability to a genre that once lauded for it's possibilities, has become pretty stagnant.
Metal Gear Solid V The sheer number of systems that interact with each other. A lot of it feels like that standard Kojima attention to detail, but it meshes really well in the open world/open mission structure.
Undertale while probably the biggest stretch of the "next gen" moniker, and I admit it's more just a clever take on certain game tropes. But whenever a game before tried to tackle "morality," it fell on it's face. Undertale builds it's whole gameplay around that concept and makes it tangible in a way that I don't think has ever been done before.
Kerbal Space Program When other games get praised for scale and scope, it always seems to be undermined, especially in games where there's fast travel and other conceits. Building your ship and managing your means to get to where you're going makes that scope feel real.
Super Mario Maker is the realization of the dream of game creation within a game. It felt like a failed promise with games like Little Big Planet.
Splatoon while also flipping shooters on his head, they also set a new example on how to keep your multiplayer game "fresh" in those post-release months where multiplayer games usually drop off considerably.
P.T. is how next-gen game announcements should be handled more often. Blows any trailer out of the water.
Lastly, regarding the "but it could also be done on last gen!" argument. You're going to run up against more hard-limits graphically than you are gameplay-wise when discussing what can and can't be done. I think it's fair to say "next gen gameplay" is both what can be done because of hardware, and concepts and ideas that have been born out of moving out of a "last gen" way of designing games.
Magic Mushroom
Member
geordiemp
Member
There is no such thing as next gen gameplay, its just a phrase used by lazy game reviewers to put down a game for no good reason.
Every game mechanic can be replicated on last gen, even Nemesis.
What has changed is the breadth and scale of games given we now have 5 gb RAM to play with.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Yep
Ever changing AI with varied patrol routes
Meticulous designed Levels
Deep core mechanics
Stealth game with a great shooter control and response
AI that can adjust itself to both stealth and action playstyle
btw i have platinumed blacklist and its no way near MGS V in terms of gameplay quality
Star Citizen's Local Physics Grid System, it allows to fully simulated levels to inside levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UqEHrXva0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UqEHrXva0U
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Chambers35
Neo Member
The Witcher 3 and Geralt's growing facial hair. Not the biggest of deals but I'd never seen it done before, or at least that well. Wilson's from Don't Starve also grew 
Sword Of Doom
Member
Not sure what the OP really means with "next gen gameplay" but Titanfall and MGS V just play so well. Maybe we're at a point of diminishing returns where we don't get giant leaps.
silvermember
Banned
People need to stop putting too much stock into this nonexistent concept call NEXT GEN this or that. In this case, Next Gen Gameplay.
The game that innovated in terms of mechanics is splatoon. Every other game is simply a refinement.
The truth is the video game have reach a point in mechanics where they will be few innovative mechanics. Just like they are very few innovative movies, that doesn't rely on gimmicks.
Most future innovations will be based on improving AI and story.
The game that innovated in terms of mechanics is splatoon. Every other game is simply a refinement.
The truth is the video game have reach a point in mechanics where they will be few innovative mechanics. Just like they are very few innovative movies, that doesn't rely on gimmicks.
Most future innovations will be based on improving AI and story.
This is false, but I can see how one could have that impression from the generation's current offerings.
As JordanN mentioned, current gen has opened up huge possibilities in physics simulation, including fluid and cloth, along with the capabilities to handle more dynamic, varied and plentiful AI than we've ever seen before. There many gameplay possibilities that can be achieved on current gen consoles that would not be possible last generation.
Dutch Microwave
Member
People dont want next gen gameplay,they're perfectly content with cutting edge graphics instead. Developers are so scared of dialing graphics back because of all the downgrade whining and general shittalking that ensues when you cant see the individual hairs on a dudes face they spend way less time on innovating gameplay.
For example we could already have large scale battles (150-200+) in rpgs/tps,so outside of strategy games a la Mount & Blade from a AAA studio if we just cut back a bit on gfx.We know it'd be doable,just look at the amount of people on screen in Assassin's Creed Unity/Syndicate. Instead we're content with 5v10 fights at best.
The general destructibility/AI in shooters has barely evolved since F.E.A.R. We have Battlefields I guess and uh Red Faction which was pretty much based around that gimmick.I havent played the new Rainbow Six but from what I've heard it adds a new dimension to the gameplay as well. An environment that's "interactable" in some shape or form creates more immersion and makes the world more believable than 4k textures on indestructible walls ever will (for me anyhow)
These are all things that would actually benefit from the new hardware.
For example we could already have large scale battles (150-200+) in rpgs/tps,so outside of strategy games a la Mount & Blade from a AAA studio if we just cut back a bit on gfx.We know it'd be doable,just look at the amount of people on screen in Assassin's Creed Unity/Syndicate. Instead we're content with 5v10 fights at best.
The general destructibility/AI in shooters has barely evolved since F.E.A.R. We have Battlefields I guess and uh Red Faction which was pretty much based around that gimmick.I havent played the new Rainbow Six but from what I've heard it adds a new dimension to the gameplay as well. An environment that's "interactable" in some shape or form creates more immersion and makes the world more believable than 4k textures on indestructible walls ever will (for me anyhow)
These are all things that would actually benefit from the new hardware.
Sora the Cat
Member
Came here to say this.
The Baron Count
Member
The whole "next gen gameplay" thing is kind of non-sense to start with, at least these days.
There have been tons of examples of gameplay experiences made possible by hardware advances, but that was quite a while ago.
There is a mod that turns the settings in The Witcher 3 so low that it looks like an original Xbox game. Of course it doesn't mean that it would run on an original Xbox but the point is, in most cases you could in theory make something so ugly that it would run on almost any hardware with reasonable specs from the last decade or so.
I would argue that being able to play those games with the level of visual fidelity that we can now makes them entirely different experiences than if you were to do that though.
On a mechanics level though? Yeah don't expect to see anything this gen that couldn't be done on the 360 or PS3. Even if there were a big enough jump to enable some of the more creative devs to do something revolutionary, there would still be the issue of it being risky and most publishers being averse to taking risks due to profit concerns.
I'm trying to think of the last time we had an entirely new gameplay experience enabled by hardware power. The most noteworthy and recent example I can think of is the physics based gameplay of Half-Life 2.
For the record, MGSV is an objectively incorrect answer given that it plays exactly the same on platforms from a decade ago.
There have been tons of examples of gameplay experiences made possible by hardware advances, but that was quite a while ago.
There is a mod that turns the settings in The Witcher 3 so low that it looks like an original Xbox game. Of course it doesn't mean that it would run on an original Xbox but the point is, in most cases you could in theory make something so ugly that it would run on almost any hardware with reasonable specs from the last decade or so.
I would argue that being able to play those games with the level of visual fidelity that we can now makes them entirely different experiences than if you were to do that though.
On a mechanics level though? Yeah don't expect to see anything this gen that couldn't be done on the 360 or PS3. Even if there were a big enough jump to enable some of the more creative devs to do something revolutionary, there would still be the issue of it being risky and most publishers being averse to taking risks due to profit concerns.
I'm trying to think of the last time we had an entirely new gameplay experience enabled by hardware power. The most noteworthy and recent example I can think of is the physics based gameplay of Half-Life 2.
For the record, MGSV is an objectively incorrect answer given that it plays exactly the same on platforms from a decade ago.
Broadbandito
Member
Rainbow Six Siege
Ghost Slayer
Member
Edit: In regards to this gen, physics driven by the GPU could be what defines gameplay of this gen.
This is what I hope Uncharted 4 will do base on E3 demo. Previous Uncharted already did this but not much
I haven't seen any innovations in gameplay that would be impossible to achieve in the previous generation.
But it plays exactly the same on last-gen.
But it plays exactly the same on last-gen.
LegendofLex
Member
Nintendo Land - Asymmetric multiplayer using a second screen, no special sold-separately hardware peripherals required
Pikmin 3 - Real-time strategy planning and unit management using a second screen + mouse-like pointer inputs, all in a console game
The Wind Waker HD - Large open-world navigation using a second screen, gyroscope + dual stick aiming in a third-person action/adventure/RPG
Splatoon - Team shooter field control using a second screen, gyroscope + dual stick aiming in an online shooter
Nothing I've yet played on PS4 really feels like it wasn't already done last generation. Looking forward to No Man's Sky, though.
Pikmin 3 - Real-time strategy planning and unit management using a second screen + mouse-like pointer inputs, all in a console game
The Wind Waker HD - Large open-world navigation using a second screen, gyroscope + dual stick aiming in a third-person action/adventure/RPG
Splatoon - Team shooter field control using a second screen, gyroscope + dual stick aiming in an online shooter
Nothing I've yet played on PS4 really feels like it wasn't already done last generation. Looking forward to No Man's Sky, though.
Anton Sugar
Member
Siege...such a perfect meld of old-school concepts and next (well, current now) gen tech/capabilities.
This. Other than unique controllers (wii, wiiu gamepad, etc), most things we see today could have been done on last gen or prior...
VR is where next-gen gameplay will finally arrive.
JordanN
Banned
I was looking at the water balloon gif and had an idea.
Imagine you shoot an oil drum in a game, causing the oil to leak out everywhere. You could then set the oil on fire anywhere in the level.
Or even better, imagine if a player is standing next to the barrel when it explodes. They could be coated in the oil making them vulnerable to fire, and when they walk, the oil continues to drip off them giving away their location.
SliChillax
Member
So a game that simply controls well is considered next gen now? That should be normal, not next gen. Also it's not THAT good, god damn is this game over rated. The gunplay for example isn't even that good.
MiamiWesker
Member
MGSV I think is the best enhancement of gameplay mechanics since RE4. But I wouldn't view that as a generational jump. That I see as something that couldn't be done before. The jump from 2D to 3D gameplay. The stuff that could be done with a wiimote. The systems that can't be done in previous gens.
I say this gen will be all about VR. The day you can virtually pick up any object and manipulate it any way with virtual hands is true next generation gameplay. No preprogrammed animations or actions, you interact like you would in real life.
I say this gen will be all about VR. The day you can virtually pick up any object and manipulate it any way with virtual hands is true next generation gameplay. No preprogrammed animations or actions, you interact like you would in real life.
Like I said in the last thread, it's tough to spot the difference between gameplay that COULD NOT have been done until current gen, and gameplay that WAS NOT done until current gen (or maybe wasn't done in a way that was popularized). A lot of the major new things we saw in gen 7 like cover systems or parkour I'd argue simply hadn't been thought of or refined until that point, but could have been done on earlier consoles just with worse graphics. It always begs the question "What if developers made games back then knowing what they know now?"
A lot of the ideas in indie games are probably new, and some people might see them as defining next-gen, but probably could have been done on gen 5 or gen 4 consoles if the ideas had been there.
To this day I don't think I've seen any shooter simultaneously accomplish the level of map scale, detail density, AI, physics, destructibility, and gameplay variety that you see in the original Crysis. Even its own sequels fail to live up to it technologically. There are times when MGSV comes close, but Crysis 1 still has some advantages over it. Still, Crysis was technically ported to last gen consoles, and I feel like MGSV could have been done on last gen (aside from its actual last gen version) if every shooter developer wasn't so focused on making scripted set-piece games or if Ubisoft had tried harder with the Far Cry games.
One clear thing we're seeing developers take advantage of in current-gen games is the increased memory which has allowed some games to do more with fewer loading screens. Sure, most of Witcher 3's core gameplay could have been done as far back as the PS1 era, but I feel like if you tried to make its open world on PS3 and 360 it would have around five times as many loading screens and not as much dynamic life in the background. The same goes for Fallout 4 -- its pretty similar to 3 and New Vegas in terms of world design, but with maybe a third as many loading screens.
Maybe No Man's Sky might be seen as a new next step by a lot of people. Procedurally generated 3D galaxies have been a thing since the 80's (there was an NES version of the original Elite), and seamlessly-landing on 1:1 scale planets has existed since the 90's. I don't think any game has brought that to the same level as what NMS is attempting though, not with procedurally generated wildlife and all that.
A lot of the ideas in indie games are probably new, and some people might see them as defining next-gen, but probably could have been done on gen 5 or gen 4 consoles if the ideas had been there.
To this day I don't think I've seen any shooter simultaneously accomplish the level of map scale, detail density, AI, physics, destructibility, and gameplay variety that you see in the original Crysis. Even its own sequels fail to live up to it technologically. There are times when MGSV comes close, but Crysis 1 still has some advantages over it. Still, Crysis was technically ported to last gen consoles, and I feel like MGSV could have been done on last gen (aside from its actual last gen version) if every shooter developer wasn't so focused on making scripted set-piece games or if Ubisoft had tried harder with the Far Cry games.
One clear thing we're seeing developers take advantage of in current-gen games is the increased memory which has allowed some games to do more with fewer loading screens. Sure, most of Witcher 3's core gameplay could have been done as far back as the PS1 era, but I feel like if you tried to make its open world on PS3 and 360 it would have around five times as many loading screens and not as much dynamic life in the background. The same goes for Fallout 4 -- its pretty similar to 3 and New Vegas in terms of world design, but with maybe a third as many loading screens.
Maybe No Man's Sky might be seen as a new next step by a lot of people. Procedurally generated 3D galaxies have been a thing since the 80's (there was an NES version of the original Elite), and seamlessly-landing on 1:1 scale planets has existed since the 90's. I don't think any game has brought that to the same level as what NMS is attempting though, not with procedurally generated wildlife and all that.
Nameless
Member
Gameplay & design innovations aren't automatically negated just because you can scale back graphics, performance, the amount of assets on screen, etc.. enough to get a game to run on older, weaker hardware.
Solid Samus
Banned
I'm just staring at this post like 'Wat'
Coded Heroin
Banned
Splatoon?
IDK, many of the games I've played had gameplay similar to the ones from last gen. To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm being asked. lol
IDK, many of the games I've played had gameplay similar to the ones from last gen. To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm being asked. lol