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[soundwave05]

When this game wasn't ready for fall 2005 as originally planned, I think Nintendo knew that releasing it on the GameCube in 2006 alone would severely limit its sales. Even late 2005 was pushing it as it was really.

But they weren't going to rush another Zelda out the door, because that would cause more damage to the franchise than good.

The solution is to have two versions and capitalize on the Revolution launch to buoy Zelda sales and vice versa and Nintendo probably made that decision last year. That's why there's been no new screenshots or anything else released on this game since the delay was announced.

 

[GDGF]

Yeah, after that interview there wasn't really any doubt in my mind anymore that the NGC story of a extra magic wand control scheme for TP is true. For reference, the exact quote:I mean, come on. Reggie isn't a total idiot. If he actually wanted the rumour out of the world, and make sure fans' expectations aren't unrealistic, he wouldn't say things like that.

And then there is ONM/Twilight Rockstar's insistence that the game has totally changed since we last saw it, and that EAD has been very busy in the past year. I know GAF dislikes them at the moment, but it's still interesting. The way they talk about it makes it sound like the Zelda team has been doing more in the past year than just retrofitting a new control scheme.

I always thought Zelda for GCN, but with Revolution control features was pretty much a given. Atleast since Iwata himself said that he was pushing for this during a video interview at last years E3 show. Have people completely forgotten the fact that those words came out of Iwata's mouth? Memories are short.

 

[bonkbonk]

I always thought Zelda with Revolution control features was pretty much a given. Atleast since Iwata himself said that he was pushing for this during a video interview at last years E3 show. Have people completely forgotten the fact that those words came out of Iwata's mouth? Memories are short.

can you provide a quote? I believe ya, I just want to read it.


my greatest fear (and many of you have this fear yourselves) is that Zelda TP has become a cel-shaded Revolution-only game or a cel-shaded GCN/REV hybrid, that bares little resembalance to the GCN trailers of 2004 and 2005.

 

[mrklaw]

You guys sound like Sony. "how do we port Zelda to Rev? Better graphics ftw!!"

Wrong. Zelda is built on and around the GC hardware and controls, the relationship is very close and aimed at giving the player the best experience.

Even switching to Rev, simple things like menu navigation, item selection and deployment would be affected, but this would really impact on general convenience during the game.

Like the buttons assigned to items in the top right hand corner, whats gonna replace that? D-pad? Instant funfactor decrease. Don't even argue against that, it just wouldn't feel right tapping left to shoot my slingshot. If thats not how it would be done, that means going in and out of the menus to equip the next item etc.

Simply put, Rev Zelda will not use that item assignment system anymore, it will be built around the Revmote and that includes every little thing we take for granted in a game.

you're making a huge assumption that the game is tightly tied to the control capabilities of the gamecube. Most, if not all, Zelda games would control perfectly well on any of the main consoles, and TP should be no different. Nothing special to be handled differently.

sure, on revolution you'd have to deal with how to convert 'standard' console controls to the rev layout, but I seriously hope Nintendo have already covered that

 

[AniHawk]

can you provide a quote? I believe ya, I just want to read it.


my greatest fear (and many of you have this fear yourselves) is that Zelda TP has become a cel-shaded Revolution-only game or a cel-shaded GCN/REV hybrid, that bares little resembalance to the GCN trailers of 2004 and 2005.

My greatest fear is that Nintendo never tries to make Zelda cel-shaded again. TWW was fucking gorgeous. A cel-shaded Zelda using the TP artstyle would kick everyone's ass.

 

[Oblivion]

My greatest fear is that Nintendo never tries to make Zelda cel-shaded again. TWW was fucking gorgeous. A cel-shaded Zelda using the TP artstyle would kick everyone's ass.

no thx

Spoiler

;P

 

[Amir0x]

My greatest fear is that Nintendo never tries to make Zelda cel-shaded again. TWW was fucking gorgeous. A cel-shaded Zelda using the Majora's Mask artstyle would kick everyone's ass.

fix'd for personal accuracy, and yes I agree 100%.

 

[AniHawk]

fix'd for personal accuracy, and yes I agree 100%.

MM's artstyle was OoT's artstyle. Which was pretty generic stuff.

MM was just more imaginative than the rest since it was supposed to be a fantasy world to a character that already lived in a... fantasy world.

 

[Amir0x]

MM's artstyle was OoT's artstyle. Which was pretty generic stuff.

MM was just more imaginative than the rest since it was supposed to be a fantasy world to a character that already lived in a... fantasy world.

The artwork for characters in Majora's Mask, with its ultra deep shadowing and stark contrast is what I want for a game. It is distinct from what was done in Ocarina of Time. Not to discuss any of the actual in-game engine crap and how it ended up looking, but if they can get cel-shading for a Revolution Zelda that resembled the Majora's Mask character artwork I'd be sold.

That said, if the cel-shading of whatever they went with ended up looking like the character artwork of Twilight Princess and not with the down syndrome villagers and such, it would look nice too.

 

[Newzboyz99]

Whats the difference. Whether its a GC game or Rev game it will probably be great either way. Might as well make it a Rev game and up the graphics, framerate, etc/

 

[Amir0x]

Well some of the dudes from Nintendo said this was going to be the last, and therefore ultimate, expression of 'traditional 3D Zelda.' Knowing this, I want it to go without being tainted by whatever Revolution crap is gonna be touted for the first Zelda game built for the ground up with wagglewand in mind. I'd rather not go fly fishing with Rev wand or sword battling an optional boss with revmote, so we can just have a clean, completely untainted traditional Zelda experience. Of course, if they just did a graphics upgrade for Rev... I'd be fine with that.

 

[Oblivion]

The artwork for characters in Majora's Mask, with its ultra deep shadowing and stark contrast is what I want for a game. It is distinct from what was done in Ocarina of Time.

Got comparison shots? They looked almost exactly the same from what I can remember.

 

[AniHawk]

The artwork for characters in Majora's Mask, with its ultra deep shadowing and stark contrast is what I want for a game. It is distinct from what was done in Ocarina of Time. Not to discuss any of the actual in-game engine crap and how it ended up looking, but if they can get cel-shading for a Revolution Zelda that resembled the Majora's Mask character artwork I'd be sold.

That said, if the cel-shading of whatever they went with ended up looking like the character artwork of Twilight Princess and not with the down syndrome villagers and such, it would look nice too.

Well, yeah. I really was referring to the main players and the monsters.

 

[Paladin69]

This game was designed for the Cube controller in mind. If this moves to Rev, expect the traditional shell packed in the box.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Well some of the dudes from Nintendo said this was going to be the last, and therefore ultimate, expression of 'traditional 3D Zelda.' Knowing this, I want it to go without being tainted by whatever Revolution crap is gonna be touted for the first Zelda game built for the ground up with wagglewand in mind. I'd rather not go fly fishing with Rev wand or sword battling an optional boss with revmote, so we can just have a clean, completely untainted traditional Zelda experience. Of course, if they just did a graphics upgrade for Rev... I'd be fine with that.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.
(and by the way everyone, WW looks awesome. I can get fucking realism by going outside.)

 

[Amir0x]

Got comparison shots? They looked almost exactly the same from what I can remember.

Young Link (ocarina of time)

Young Link (Majora's Mask)

Notice, as mentioned, the ultra deep shadowing that is used on the Link from Majora's. It's a very moody stylistic choice, imho, that would would just excel with the use of cel-shading.

 

[Oblivion]

(and by the way everyone, WW looks awesome. I can get fucking realism by going outside.)

Not sure if you're referring to TP, but while it's considered "realistic", it still has that fantasy-esque unrealistic style to it. It's not GTA realistic.

 

[Johnas]

ARGH I need some new Zelda info. Man I really hope something surfaces during March. I know E3 is only ~2 months away, it's just that it's been so long since we got anything new from Nintendo on the game.

Ami: Totally agree about the art.

 

[Oblivion]

Young Link (ocarina of time)

Young Link (Majora's Mask)

Notice, as mentioned, the ultra deep shadowing that is used on the Link from Majora's. It's a very moody stylistic choice, imho, that would would just excel with the use of cel-shading.

Gotcha. Needs more adult Link, though.

 

[JoDark]

nintendo's problem is that either way sucks:

C, it won't help Rev.

If it upgrades for Rev... it still can never live up to a real rev game. Unless they are shipping two full games on the one GC disk...

Maybe there are two complete games, which is why it has taken so damn long!

All I know is that I will buy a rev to play this, and I won't buy a rev to play a fucking cooking simulator. And I don't was some GC looking game with rev control. I WANT A FULLY REALIZED REV GAME.

What happened to short cheap development Nintendo, you must be over 20mm into this already. I luv ya, but you are hypicrates.

 

[Zerodoppler]

I hope they cell shade the graphics and use the WW style in every game from now on. If they do that, maybe the fanfic writers, cosplayers and "we want voice acting" people will move on to some emo fantasy franchise and leave Zelda to the people that actually enjoy the gameplay.

 

[Oblivion]

I hope they cell shade the graphics and use the WW style in every game from now on. If they do that, maybe the fanfic writers, cosplayers and "we want voice acting" people will move on to some emo fantasy franchise and leave Zelda to the people that actually enjoy the gameplay.

Um....okay?

 

[underfooter]

The fact that Rev is GCN backwards compatable really means it doesn't matter if it is released on a dead system. It isn't like they are trying to sell Gamecubes or anything, rather I think gamers who skipped the GCN completely will look at Rev and say 'hey! with a Revolution and a Wavebird I can play this awesome Zelda!'.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Not sure if you're referring to TP, but while it's considered "realistic", it still has that fantasy-esque unrealistic style to it. It's not GTA realistic.

Yeah, but when you consider that WW had one of the best art styles of any game ever, and the Twilight Princess style looks fairly boring and derivative you can see the problem.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, but when you consider that WW had one of the best art styles of any game ever, and the Twilight Princess style looks fairly boring and derivative you can see the problem.

Oblivion doesn't like the WW artstyle so the argument is lost on him. But I agree. Wind Waker artstyle is just beautiful. Link in WW is easily one of the most expressive versions of the character in the series, and the game itself was a huge step forward for the series in terms of storytelling.

 

[maynerd]

They'll release it on the cube with hidden code to allow revolution to take advantage of the new controller when revolution ships. This will be available on GC. This is my prediction and it doesn't mean squat.

 

[Oblivion]

Yeah, but when you consider that WW had one of the best art styles of any game ever, and the Twilight Princess style looks fairly boring and derivative you can see the problem.

Eh...gonna have to disagree immsensely on that. The animation for WW was great and atmosphere seemed very vibrant, but it had some of the ugliest, horrendous character art ever conceived. While some may consider TP's villagers to look like down syndrome patients, WW's seemed more like keebler elf/powerpuff girl hybrid mutations.

edit: Oh, Amir0x, you know me so well. ^___^

 

[Newzboyz99]

I'd like to see Mario cel shaded personally. Think Zelda TP should be digitally captured ala Pit Fighter.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Oblivion doesn't like the WW artstyle so the argument is lost on him. But I agree. Wind Waker artstyle is just beautiful. Link in WW is easily one of the most expressive versions of the character in the series, and the game itself was a huge step forward for the series in terms of storytelling.

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. I thought the style really contributed to the overall immersion of the game giving it a very unique sense of place whereas what I am seeing from Twilight Princess is pretty standard fantasy-world fare. But I digress, it's fucking Zelda and as long as Nintendo keeps making standard Zelda games they will be in my good graces.

 

[Amir0x]

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. I thought the style really contributed to the overall immersion of the game giving it a very unique sense of place whereas what I am seeing from Twilight Princess is pretty standard fantasy-world fare.

I agree 100%.

But I digress, it's fucking Zelda and as long as Nintendo keeps making standard Zelda games they will be in my good graces.

Well, there's the matter of bringing Mother 3 to the US... but if they do that, then yeah we're square

 

[Johnas]

Well, there's the matter of bringing Mother 3 to the US... but if they do that, then yeah we're square

Not to derail, but it's Monday nights that we get new info, right?

 

[soundwave05]

Well some of the dudes from Nintendo said this was going to be the last, and therefore ultimate, expression of 'traditional 3D Zelda.' Knowing this, I want it to go without being tainted by whatever Revolution crap is gonna be touted for the first Zelda game built for the ground up with wagglewand in mind. I'd rather not go fly fishing with Rev wand or sword battling an optional boss with revmote, so we can just have a clean, completely untainted traditional Zelda experience. Of course, if they just did a graphics upgrade for Rev... I'd be fine with that.

I agree with you ... I think having a graphical enhancement for the Rev is more than fine with me. Higher-res textures, maybe some better lighting and other effects and what not.

Maybe they could do what they did with Super Mario 64 DS and add some Revmote mini-games on the side ... but yeah, I don't think or even want the main game to be redone for Revmote control at this point. You'd have to rebuild the game from the ground up to really do that, and honestly I'm not even sure I want something that dramtically different.

 

[LiquidMamba]

Some people complain that the Zelda series is getting a little stale. And now people don't want to see it using the Revmote? You can say that for it to be a great game it has to be built for the groundup on the system, but I'm sure Nintendo can put unique Revmote controls in the game in a year. I mean, how long have Nintendo been working on games for the Revolution? If SSB is going to be released for the Revolution around launch, game development would have started around the exact same timeframe as Zelda's delay. Personally, I would like to see what Nintendo will do with the gameplay if they decide to have the game playable on both consoles. It would be disappointing if Nintendo just added an extra dungeon, or some other gimmick.
Sorry for the mini-rant.

 

[kaizoku]

Ways to improve Zelda:

tie in an actual plot and consistency. They are trying thank god. Build a proper universe which is more than Link, Ganon and Zelda.

Concentrate on sense of scale and adventure, Shadow of the Collosus did this well.

Strong themes behind your actions. This isnt Mario. Again this is being worked in.

Improve battle system.

These are the ares where I feel Zelda is getting a bit stale or finds itself being outperformed by other games. People say they dont play it for story or fighting, which is true, but if its in there it makes it all the better.

 

[Amir0x]

Some people complain that the Zelda series is getting a little stale. And now people don't want to see it using the Revmote?

"Some people" are not me, so the argument is pretty dead in the water. I think Zelda is still as awesome as ever and I have absolutely no desire to see it change from the current track it's on.

 

[E-phonk]

For me the windwaker / minish cap (art) link is the best iteration of the character. The graphics and artstyle of windwaker was the best yet - and will age a lot better then most current gen games. It also gave the game a distinct look&feel.
Oblivion DOES have a point that SOME characters were fugly. But this had nothing to do with the way windwaker was done, but more with some bad NPC character art.

I do hope that they continue to deliver a solid and consistent universe. The zelda series will only get better if the backstory is more coherent and characters/races have a rich history to rely upon.
I've always had the idea that the land of hyrule is big enough - with a lot of distinct but recognisable locations, and the inclusion of different time era's and dark/light world mechanics give it the scale it needs - I've got no real complaints there. I do think some locations should be giving some serious overhaul. Death montain for example should almost always be visible in the background as this huge and dangerous place.

Zelda isn't getting stale on me in any way, I enjoyed the first one and still enjoy the most recent ones (minish cap/wind waker - never played 4swords). I do hope nintendo has the balls to put some drama into it (the destruction-of-hyrule scenario that leads to the waterworld in windwaker would be great).
If they do make another cellshaded zelda, they should start out with link as a kid - with graphics like WW, but end up with link being an adult with dark and more - oh good i'll say it - "mature" graphics. This way maybe both sides will be happy (unlikely).

 

[human5892]

Are we allowed to like both styles? Because I think both WW and TTP look awesome -- WW is what I always imagined something like Link to the Past would look like in 3D, and TTP is what I wished Ocarina could've been on more powerful hardware.

Also I don't give a shit what wagglewanding nonsense is in Zelda, as long as they put out an intact GC version.

 

[Oblivion]

"Some people" are not me, so the argument is pretty dead in the water. I think Zelda is still as awesome as ever and I have absolutely no desire to see it change from the current track it's on.

Nice to see we can agree on some things.

Are we allowed to like both styles?

NO!

 

[Speevy]

If the game were getting released soon, I would buy it. But with the delay, I don't know when I'll finally pick it up.

 

[Cheebs]

TWW style was by far the best. The OOT link didn't FEEL and LOOK like Zelda to me. Link was that small midget guy in art from the original LoZ. TWW brought that back but with a lot more style. I absolutley loved it.

Kid Link rocks, Adult Link sucks.

 

[kaizoku]

Minish Cap Zelda rocks, just look at the toy figures or collectibles and the MC ones are the best. Arguably the best iteration of any Nintendo character yet.

I dont think iit was pulled off perfectly in TWW, the use of cel-shading seemed abit basic, perhaps abit early. If you look at stuff like Rogue Galaxy and DQ VIII now, TWW has a certain lack of detail. I would certainly like to see it used again. But I do love the TP look as well.

 

[Oblivion]

TWW style was by far the best. The OOT link didn't FEEL and LOOK like Zelda to me. Link was that small midget guy in art from the original LoZ. TWW brought that back but with a lot more style. I absolutley loved it.

Kid Link rocks, Adult Link sucks.

Perhaps he looked like a midget due to the top down view? Just a theory...

Not to mention every NES Zelda artwork had Link as a young man instead of a little brat.

 

[Walter Matthau]

I dont think iit was pulled off perfectly in TWW, the use of cel-shading seemed abit basic, perhaps abit early. If you look at stuff like Rogue Galaxy and DQ VIII now, TWW has a certain lack of detail. I would certainly like to see it used again. But I do love the TP look as well.

It might be less detailed than Rogue Galaxy, but its twice as fluid. The art generally has a nicer organization and flow. Then again, i'm basing this on trailers i've seen for Rogue Galaxy.

 

[Zerodoppler]

Not to mention every NES Zelda artwork had Link as a young man instead of a little brat.

Oh, really?

 

[worldrunover]

I wouldn't have a problem with some Revo enhancements. I don't understand how it can "hurt" the experience by making completely optional side quests / battles utilize the Rev controller for a different, newer experience that would just have us all salivating for a fully-Revolutionized Zelda game. If you just want the GC game, play through minus the Rev extras. If you want a little taste of what's to come, go fishing or play rupee games with the Rev controller.

 

[underfooter]

To be quite honest, as a gamer, I am getting a Revolution and it happens to be GCN compadable. I think most people here are the same so no one is really affected.

 

[snatches]

can you provide a quote? I believe ya, I just want to read it.


my greatest fear (and many of you have this fear yourselves) is that Zelda TP has become a cel-shaded Revolution-only game or a cel-shaded GCN/REV hybrid, that bares little resembalance to the GCN trailers of 2004 and 2005.

My greatest fear is that you would continue to post on this forum.

No seriously, Nintendo won't throw away 3 years of game development because they just want to give us all what they've decided we don't want.

Personally, snatches Am Cry. I would love to see another wind waker with a grown up cel shaded Zelda and less fetch quests.

But the odds of that happening are 1: 1,000,000,000.

 

[underfooter]

Snatches, I think he was joking. It is more likely we'll see George Bush on the cover of 'Playboy:Beastiality edition' before TP becomes cel-shaded.

 

[Oblivion]

Oh, really?

Odd...I could have sworn there was different artwork. Still, the point stands.

 

[snatches]

Snatches, I think he was joking. It is more likely we'll see George Bush on the cover of 'Playboy:Beastiality edition' before TP becomes cel-shaded.

He wasn't joking. And I agree wholeheartedly.