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NHL - There might just be a Season (part deux)

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Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
Bettman is scheduled to hold a press conference tomorrow, 1PM eastern to officially cancel the season.

But it turns out the league and the players had a secret meeting last night (btw, don't you love these secret meetings across the country? It's like they're having an affair...HOT).
Anyway, the players proposed a cap of $52 million. Proving that they ARE willing to accept a cap and that they just wasted the last several months pretending they didn't. And the owners proposed a hard $40 million cap without revenue linkage. Proving that they ARE willing to accept a deal without linkage and that they also wasted the last several months pretending they didn't.

Anyway:
NHL, players edge closer together but is there time to bridge gap?

posted February 15 @ 14:50, EST

NEW YORK (CP) - The two sides in the NHL labour dispute have abandoned longstanding philosophical positions and edged closer together, but the question is whether there is time to bridge the remaining gap.

While more talks were expected Tuesday, time is running out with commissioner Gary Bettman expected to cancel the season at a 1 p.m. EST (wednesda) news conference in New York barring an agreement.

Still, it appeared Tuesday like there was the momentum to secure a deal following Monday night's revelation that the NHL Players' Association had changed direction at the final turn and offered to play under a $52-million US salary cap.

The league, meanwhile, turned heads by proposing a $40-million salary cap with no "linkage" to revenue.


"I'm sure not everybody is happy out there. I'm sure there's some players not happy with a hard cap and some owners not happy at not having linkage," Flyers player representative Robert Esche told The Canadian Press from Philadelphia.

"But hey, it's a give-take world. Now it seems we're just down to numbers. It's exciting."

Now the question is whether the two sides can bridge the gap. A source said the league sees $52 million as too high but might be willing to go in the low 40s to get a deal done.

"It shouldn't be that hard, they're agreeing on principles," Esche said.

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk wasn't quite as positive.

"It's a lot to try to do in a very, very short time," he told The Fan, a Toronto all-sports radio station. "I'm just not optimistic."

The change in strategy represents a quantum leap for both sides. The players have insisted a salary cap was a non-starter while the league has built its case around so-called cost certainty - linking player costs to revenue.

A source close to the talks indicated Tuesday morning that he expected both sides would get together later in the day. But as of 1 p.m. EST NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly was still in New York while NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin was still in Toronto.

The surprising developments came during a secret meeting Monday in Niagara Falls, N.Y., between Saskin and Daly.

Daly began the process by offering his cap figure without a fixed link between player costs and league revenues. The union countered with the $52-million salary cap per team and its 24 per cent rollback on existing salaries, which was rejected by the NHL.

"It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides today we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement," Saskin said in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

It appears a select group of players spearheaded the NHLPA change in strategy.

The Philadelphia Inquirer and others reported Tuesday that Flyers centre Jeremy Roenick, along with Calgary's Jarome Iginla, St. Louis's Chris Pronger and others, urged the union leaders to put a cap with no linkage on the table in a bid to save the season.

"I was involved with a group of NHL players who were trying to get to as many people as possible to come on board with a resolution that works for both sides," Roenick told the Inquirer. "The proposal has to have a number that is not tied to revenues."

A call to Iginla was not immediately returned Tuesday.

Other reports said the group of players actually had a proposal for the league, but Esche said that was pushing it too far.

"That needs to be clarified," Esche told CP. "I talked to Pronger a few hours ago, I spoke with JR a few hours ago, that is the further thing from the truth. They didn't give a proposal to the league, they didn't go behind the union's back. They would never undermine our union."

Still, Buffalo Sabres player rep Jay McKee was surprised Tuesday when he heard the union would accept a cap.

"If that's where we were going, I wonder why now," he said.

According to a source, the union's offer breaks down like this:

A cap of $52 million but with provisions for teams to spend as much as 10 per cent more than that on three occasions in a six-year period, with a luxury tax incorporated. The luxury tax rates would be 25 per cent on $40-$44 million; 50 per cent on $44-$48 million; 75 per cent on $48-$52 million and 150 per cent on $52-$57.2 million.

The league's deal features a $40-million cap, with a 50 per cent luxury tax on payrolls from $34 million to $40 million.

Using last season's payrolls and adding the 24 per cent rollback on existing contracts, the average team payroll was $33.95 million. There were 16 teams over the $40-million figure last season, but that's without the contact rollback.


Monday's development could also have a major impact on the league's ability to declare legal impasse down the road if there's no deal and the season is cancelled. The union could perhaps argue to the U.S. National Labor Relations Board that there is no impasse in talks because the philosophical issue of a salary cap is no longer the deal-breaker.

The NHL is hoping to avoid becoming the first major professional league in North America to cancel an entire season from beginning to finish.

"I'm extremely concerned," Flyers captain Keith Primeau said from Philadelphia. "The biggest thing that disturbs me is everyone's true misunderstanding of the fan base. You hear how certain people believe that the hardcore fan will definitely return, that the damage isn't irreparable.

"I think that's a huge miscalculation or judgment in error of who and what your fan base is. That, I think, is going to alarm a lot of people when the doors are re-opened."


Yup!!

Through Tuesday, 834 of the 1,230 regular-season games have gone by the wayside.

If an agreement can still be reached, the league has a shortened schedule ready to go that would see teams play 28 regular-season games, playing only within their conference. The playoffs would stay the same.

"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. "Am I mad, no? I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."
Anyone else hoping, secretly, that they don't get a deal done?
F-ck the owners. Especially F-ck the players.
Why don't you guys sit out this season and think about what you've done?
When you come back, you better hope the game is better on the ice and cheaper to get into the stands.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Pochacco said:
Anyone else hoping, secretly, that they don't get a deal done?
Yep.

ashleestomp22hb.gif


And I love the game.

If Bettman had the balls to set a drop-dead date from the beginning of the season, we would have reached this point much sooner. Without a finish line, what incentive is there to put your best deal on the table? The other guy might flinch first, correct? What a fucking joke. Frankly, if the owners and players lost a bundle this season, it would serve them right. Jackasses, the lot of them.
 

android

Theoretical Magician
I don't want these players to get anything they want personally. I mean you're not in the NBA MLB or NFL, here.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Problem is, the NBA is looking at the same scenario a year from now when their CBA is up. There was an article in the paper today with Steve Nash discussing how he hopes the NHLPA holds the fort to prevent the cornholing Patrick Ewing and co. set up the NBA PA for in their last agreement. The NBA owners want to pull control back even further next time around.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see this year's NHL nonsense repeated with the NBA this time next year.
 

dem

Member
Jay McKee yesterday
"I can assure you the players are getting stronger and stronger," Sabres player representative Jay McKee said. "There is no way a cap will ever be accepted. Gary's getting into a fight he never saw coming. He's in the fight of his life. (The players) aren't the type of guys will back away when they're pushed"


Jay McKee today
Still Sabres player representative Jay McKee was surprised when he heard the union would accept a cap.

''If that's where we were going, I wonder why now,'' he said.


Poor guy
 

calder

Member
I had a big long (and fantastic) post in another thread about what I want to happen. But in the course of doing actual work I accidentally deleted it somehow before I posted it. I may repost it later, but there's something so wearying about retyping a few hundred words.

lol, poor Jay McKee. Those guys who parrot the company line and actually believe it to be this big philosophical stand they're taking that they will never compromise are going to look pretty silly.
 
Pfft, he ends up chickening out, Bertuzzi will just have to make him retire. He got Macinnis. He got Jackman.

YOU'RE NEXT PRONGER
 

dem

Member
Theres plenty of players who said they would never return to the NHL under a cap. McCabe comes to mind... but seeing as how he couldnt even make it in one of those euro leagues.. i dont know if he has a choice :lol
 
dem said:
Theres plenty of players who said they would never return to the NHL under a cap. McCabe comes to mind... but seeing as how he couldnt even make it in one of those euro leagues.. i dont know if he has a choice :lol


McCabe is amazing

STFU
 

Malakhov

Banned
Barnaby summed it best:
''We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime,'' he said. ''Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff.''
 

theo

Contest Winner
the ice is about to melt. fuck this season, spend your summer fixing your broken league. change some rules for christsakes. the ahl has a good thing going with that stuff. they also need to get rid of the trap! more offense = more audience!

oh and i hope fucksticks like pronger live up to their word. YOU LOST BYEBYE!
 

Malakhov

Banned
Apparently the league is considering a 45 millions cap now. A deal is 1-3 millions away from being done.

My guts feeling are telling me Bettman announces the start of the season tomorrow.
 

Alucard

Banned
Barnaby is the uber-pest. Loved him with the Penguins when he wasn't taking dumb penalties at every turn. The guy has intensity. But yeah...if they do announce a season tomorrow, I'll watch with very mild interest.
 

Malakhov

Banned
If the start of the season is announced tomorrow, I'll watch the season with one of the biggest interest I've had in the past few years 'cept the habs playoff runs.

20 games season? Hell fking yeah, EVERY games count. 82 games sucks so much and I'm the first who wants the season to be shortnened.
 
I went to a Sabres game in Buffalo and Barnaby took a dumb penalty and started yelling at the fans from the penalty box lol


And 20 game season = Leafs Stanley Cup win!
 
So guys if there is a season decide now if this stanley cup matters or not?

If im looking at you canuckers. I want to know if my leafs will be trolled this year for winning the cup.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
breaking news on tsn

The NHL has filed a counter-proposal to the NHL Players' Association offer, upping the salary cap to $42.5 million. The NHL has told NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow that it's a final offer with no flexibility or room to negotiate and must have a response by 11 a.m. tomorrow
 

Socreges

Banned
BigJonsson said:
And 20 game season = Leafs Stanley Cup win!
Oh God I hope so. As much as I love seeing the Leafs lose, having them finally win - but with an asterix - might be even more entertaining.

DopeyFish said:
The NHL has filed a counter-proposal to the NHL Players' Association offer, upping the salary cap to $42.5 million. The NHL has told NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow that it's a final offer with no flexibility or room to negotiate and must have a response by 11 a.m. tomorrow
I have a feeling that the NHLPA will be too proud to accept it.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
You could give the Leafs a 3-0 lead in the Stanley Cup best of seven and they wouldn't seal the deal.

OH YEAH BABY HOCKEY SMACK TALK IS BACK AND IT FEELS GOOD
 

Mikey 2x4

pick up your hentai tomorrow
They really just need to sit out the rest of the season. There is no reason to keep it going. What is anyone going to accomplish in 22 games. Then again, the NFL has 14. Hm...
 

Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
If they do have a season, they should hand out something other than the Cup - what? I dunno...I'll start a thread if they do make a deal.
 
Mikey 2x4 said:
They really just need to sit out the rest of the season. There is no reason to keep it going. What is anyone going to accomplish in 22 games. Then again, the NFL has 14. Hm...


It's something to watch and talk about



And I doubt this is accepted...maybe if it was like 45-46 million

Unless there is some other concession to the players...
 

theo

Contest Winner
just saw Iginla was just on sportscenter said something to the effect of This is not a fair deal, I expect this to go on for a long time

WTF???
this is the most PATHETIC players union in the history of sport!
 

darscot

Member
I don't think the players will take a hard line offer like this. They just gave a huge concesion to try and get things going. Now the league again is going to take that slap them in the face and demand more take it or leave it. I know I would vote to cancel the season. Finacially it no big deal for the players to right off the season.
 

Malakhov

Banned
I'm sure if Bob calls Bettman and says "hey gary, 46 and it's a deal" then this whole fiasco would be over.
 
im not following this situation that closely, but wtf is with the players? Do they think the NHL is the most popular shit on the face of the earth or something? Just how much money do they think they should be paid?
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
It's a proposal inbetween the nhl's and nhlpa's previous proposals. The NHL is is offering more for the players than their previous. The $52 million cap is a dumb idea. Only like 6 or 7 teams even hit 52 million.

$42.5 means 15 teams will have lowered payrolls at the end of current contracts.
 

Malakhov

Banned
Bettman's letter to Bob:

Dear Bob:

We attempted to reach out to you with yesterday's offer of a team maximum cap of $42.2MM ($40MM in salary and $2.2MM in benefits) which was not linked to League-wide revenues. As Bill told Ted, "de-linking" a maximum team salary cap from League revenues and total League-wide player compensation has always been problematic for us, especially since we cannot now quantify the damage to the League from the lockout. This presents the risk we will pay out more than we can afford. As you know, if all 30 teams were to spend to the maximum we proposed, and if the damage to our business is as we discussed at our meetings in New York, then the League would continue to lose money.

I know, as do you, that the "deal" we can make will only get worse for the players if we cancel the season - whatever damage we have suffered to date will pale in comparison to the damage from a cancelled season and we will certainly not be able to afford what is presently on the table. Accordingly, I am making one final effort to reach out to make a deal that will let us play this season.

We are increasing our offer of yesterday by increasing the maximum individual team cap to $44.7MM ($42.5MM in salary and $2.2MM in benefits). This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that. This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the Clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation.

If this offer is acceptable, please let me know by 11:00 A.M. tomorrow, in advance of my scheduled press conference. Hopefully, the press conference will not be necessary.

Sincerely,



Gary B. Bettman
Commissioner
 

Malakhov

Banned
DopeyFish said:
It's a proposal inbetween the nhl's and nhlpa's previous proposals. The NHL is is offering more for the players than their previous. The $52 million cap is a dumb idea. Only like 6 or 7 teams even hit 52 million.

$42.5 means 15 teams will have lowered payrolls at the end of current contracts.
Remember that this would be AFTER the 24% rollback wich is also proposed in the deal.
There's like 3 teams that would be above the 42 millions I think. So do you want to cancel a whole season for 3 teams bob?
 

android

Theoretical Magician
This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that. This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the Clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation.

And all hope for a season ends.
 

Malakhov

Banned
But he speaks the truth. Look, they are giving them a 42 millions + 2 millions in benefits salary cap after the 24% rollback. Only about 3 teams would be affected with this PLUS they are giving them NO LINKAGE and god knows how they will lose money from the fans they've just lost with this lockout.
 

Alucard

Banned
As if the Leafs would win the Stanley Cup...I'm sure more than a few of the older boys haven't been keeping up with exercise schedules in the offseason and that in turn would affect their play on the ice.

In an astonishing development, the Pittsburgh Penguins win the Stanley Cup with Mario Lemieux leading the league in scoring and Mark Recchi leading in assists. Pens powerplay ranked #1 in the league too. Booya.

Wait...what? There's almost zero chance of the players accepting $42 mil so I'll shut up now.
 

TheQueen'sOwn

insert blank space here
Malakhov said:
But he speaks the truth. Look, they are giving them a 42 millions + 2 millions in benefits salary cap after the 24% rollback. Only about 3 teams would be affected with this PLUS they are giving them NO LINKAGE and god knows how they will lose money from the fans they've just lost with this lockout.

Question: With a salary cap... is there a minimum that teams can pay the players? Like certain teams like the senators at around 33 million... would they have to raise how much they pay players?
 
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