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[HoodWinked]

Why do you fanboys always personally attack those who are merely making observations about Musk?

gave you the receipts and you're calling it overly dramatic.

 

[LegendOfKage]

advertisers are abandoning the platform after Musk fired 75% (allegedly) of the moderation team

Someone's lying (or just repeating incorrect information), and while I'm not about to take either party at their word without question, someone who would air this sort of thing out publicly like this has earned themselves a lot of doubt. Where is the 75% allegation coming from, anyhow?

 

[BadBurger]

Someone's lying, and while I'm not about to take either party at their word without question, someone who'd air this sort of thing out publicly like this has earned themselves a lot of doubt. Where is the 75% allegation coming from, anyhow?

He just laid off about half of their staff. Advertisers bailed because of it. This is known.

A remaining staffer is singing his praises. Not surprising. We've seen this exact same kind of behavior play out when other tech companies were in the process of dying, like Digg or Myspace. It's pretty much par for the course.

 

[The Alien]

Anyway

 

[LegendOfKage]

He just laid off about half of their staff. Advertisers bailed because of it. This is known.

A remaining staffer is singing his praises. Not surprising. We've seen this exact same kind of behavior play out when other tech companies were in the process of dying, like Digg or Myspace. It's pretty much par for the course.

Twitter was going to layoff 25 percent of the staff. He increased it to 50 percent. This is also known. If Twitter is being honest, advertisers left before he made even a single change to the moderation. If Yoel's graphs are accurate, none of the layoffs led to a situation where there was less moderation. He also claims that moderation was the area of twitter that experienced the least impact.

I don't care who is singing praises. I care that one side of the story is 75 percent of moderators were laid off, and the other side of the story says that hardly any moderators were laid off. I also care if the graphs are accurate. If they are, and twitter is still moderating content at the same levels as before, then this should be a non-issue. For now, I don't fully trust either party.

And again, where is the 75 percent claim coming from?

 

[BadBurger]

Twitter was going to layoff 25 percent of the staff. He increased it to 50 percent. This is also known. If Twitter is being honest, advertisers left before he made even a single change to the moderation. If Yoel's graphs are accurate, none of the layoffs led to a situation where there was less moderation. He also claims that moderation was the area of twitter that experienced the least impact.

I don't care who is singing praises. I care that one side of the story is 75 percent of moderators were laid off, and the other side of the story says that hardly any moderators were laid off. I also care if the graphs are accurate. If they are, and twitter is still moderating content at the same levels as before, then this should be a non-issue. For now, I don't fully trust either party.

And again, where is the 75 percent claim coming from?

OK. Have fun trying to prove these numbers are wrong when they are forcefully provided by law for a publicly traded company. I ain't just talking shit here dude.

 

[ULTROS!]

So…. What will replace Twitter?

 

[LegendOfKage]

OK. Have fun trying to prove these numbers are wrong when they are forcefully provided by law for a publicly traded company. I ain't just talking shit here dude.

I'm not trying to prove anything, and I'm not accusing you of talking shit. Two basic questions:

If the 75 percent of moderators statistic was provided by Twitter, who provided it, and who reported on it? It would seem twitter is publicly denying it. Where did the number first appear? I asked you twice. I don't know myself, which is why I was wanting clarification.

If the figures and graphs provided by Twitter are accurate, and they have been able to keep up with moderation, why should it matter?

 

[Rykan]

So…. What will replace Twitter?

Nothing, because Twitter isn't unmissable.

Twitter is nowhere near as big as Facebook, Instagram, youtube or tiktok even though it is often mentioned as if it is. I think it will just slowly disappear into irrelevancy or/and go bankrupt, and I don't think it will be replaced.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

gave you the receipts and you're calling it overly dramatic.

You're just going to give yourself an aneurysm dealing with his disingenuous ass

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So…. What will replace Twitter?

The closest analog is mastodon, but it's a fundamental different beast since it is based on federated servers unlike centralized social networks like twitter, facebook.

The way it works is that anyone can set up a mastodon. Users of a particular mastodon can interact with users on their own mastodon and users on other mastodons, as long as the admins of other mastodons accept them in federation. Critically, each server is self-funded which means servers can and will go down. Generally if you make an account on a mastodon-creators run server like mastodon social or mastodon online you'll have access to a buttload of federated servers, but there are isolated servers (by choice, or by being isolated by admins rejecting federation). Gab and Truth Social are examples of isolated mastodons, but also porn mastodons exist as well.

Heck, if EviLore so wished he could run his own Mastodon instance for GAF users and then get it federated.

Then there's the fediverse that mastodon itself is part of, but that's a different story.

 

[LegendOfKage]

The closest analog is mastodon, but it's a fundamental different beast since it is based on federated servers unlike centralized social networks like twitter, facebook.

The way it works is that anyone can set up a mastodon. Users of a particular mastodon can interact with users on their own mastodon and users on other mastodons, as long as the admins of other mastodons accept them in federation. Critically, each server is self-funded which means servers can and will go down. Generally if you make an account on a mastodon-creators run server like mastodon social or mastodon online you'll have access to a buttload of federated servers, but there are isolated servers (by choice, or by being isolated by admins rejecting federation). Gab and Truth Social are examples of isolated mastodons, but also porn mastodons exist as well.

Heck, if EviLore so wished he could run his own Mastodon instance for GAF users and then get it federated.

Then there's the fediverse that mastodon itself is part of, but that's a different story.

What advantages would that have over Discord? Either way, if people leaving twitter want others to follow them there, I think that's reason enough not to mess with it. I much prefer when people are interacting with others who have different thoughts, opinions, and worldviews, and it sounds like Mastodon just wants to create a bunch of segregated echo chambers.

Nothing, because Twitter isn't unmissable.

Twitter is nowhere near as big as Facebook, Instagram, youtube or tiktok even though it is often mentioned as if it is. I think it will just slowly disappear into irrelevancy or/and go bankrupt, and I don't think it will be replaced.

All that is true, but it also means a lot of room for growth. Celebrities and other public figures use twitter a lot for promotion, and it fills a different niche than any of the other platforms you mentioned. Twitter now just has to incentivize others who are not public figures to use their platform. Musk is already suggesting that he can pay more than You Tube when it comes to how much of the advertiser money they share with content creators, but we'll have to wait and see if he can actually pull it off.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

What advantages would that have over Discord? Either way, if people leaving twitter want others to follow them there, I think that's reason enough not to mess with it. I much prefer when people are interacting with others who have different thoughts, opinions, and worldviews, and it sounds like Mastodon just wants to create a bunch of segregated echo chambers.

What?

Bestboi ULTROS! asked what will replace twitter and I just told him what the closest thing to twitter is. People leaving twitter are flocking to mastodon because it is the closest thing to twitter, hence why it was an adequate reply to the question ultros asked.

Mastodon is uninterested in ideology, other than those associated with open source. The fact mastodon does not have algorithms for promoting posts following your preferences means it is explicitedly against echochambering, and federation being built in (although optional) means it is explicitly against segregation. It's all setup to enable admins and users maximum choice, if these choices lead or not to echochambering is inconsequential to mastodon.

 

[BadBurger]

I'm not trying to prove anything, and I'm not accusing you of talking shit.

I've only ever opined upon actual data coming out of this affair, and I have not been wrong yet on any of my observations or predictions.

You don't need to question me. What is happening is happening.

 

[LegendOfKage]

What?

Bestboi ULTROS! asked what will replace twitter and I just told him what the closest thing to twitter is. People leaving twitter are flocking to mastodon because it is the closest thing to twitter, hence why it was an adequate reply to the question ultros asked.

Mastodon is uninterested in ideology, other than those associated with open source. The fact mastodon does not have algorithms for promoting posts following your preferences means it is explicitedly against echochambering, and federation being built in (although optional) means it is explicitly against segregation. It's all setup to enable admins and users maximum choice, if these choices lead or not to echochambering is inconsequential to mastodon.

I understood most of that, although thank you for an even more detailed explanation. Please forgive my poorly chosen words, and replace "it sounds like Mastodon just wants to create a bunch of segregated echo chambers." with "it sounds like Mastodon will ultimately result in a bunch of segregated echo chambers." I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I understood most of that, although thank you for an even more detailed explanation. Please forgive my poorly chosen words, and replace "it sounds like Mastodon just wants to create a bunch of segregated echo chambers." with "it sounds like Mastodon will ultimately result in a bunch of segregated echo chambers." I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

Ah yes, sorry if I was too bit of a curmudgeon in my reply as well

Right now most mastodons are being very liberal with federation but who knows what will happen in the future... and I think up to a certain point you are right that some mastodons will go that way.

 

[Mr Nash]

Mastodon is neat as an alternative to Twitter, especially with its federated system. Curious to see Dorsey does with Blue Sky since it's supposed to be federated and he wants similar to come to Twitter.

At this rate, I'd be more inclined to set up Pleroma on a VPS to run my own Mastodon mini-instance self hosted and go from there.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I didnt keep up with the recent Twitter drama and just found out he axed half the company after all. Not 75% as was predicted before, but 50%. No doubt one part profits and one part getting rid of shitty departments as he wants to start fresh.

But who knows. Maybe Twitter at 50% capacity is good enough to run the company. But I wouldnt be surprised if he increases headcount back a bit with new blood.

People dont realize when companies fire people, it's not solely to save costs and bank long term profits back. It's to get rid of dead weight or pissy departments with bad attitudes. And then HR hires back people.

That's why every time you hear about a big company firing 1000s or people, go to their careers page. I bet they all have they have job postings looking for people even though they just pink slipped a ton of employees. Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I didnt keep up with the recent Twitter drama and just found out he axed half the company after all. Not 75% as was predicted before, but 50%. No doubt one part profits and one part getting rid of shitty departments as he wants to start fresh.

But who knows. Maybe Twitter at 50% capacity is good enough to run the company. But I wouldnt be surprised if he increases headcount back a bit with new blood.

People dont realize when companies fire people, it's not solely to save costs and bank long term profits back. It's to get rid of dead weight or pissy departments with bad attitudes. And then HR hires back people.

That's why every time you hear about a big company firing 1000s or people, go to their careers page. I bet they all have they have job postings looking for people even though they just pink slipped a ton of employees. Out with the old, in with the new.

It's about money.

Musk and his partners financed the operation by tackling a shitton of debt on Twitter itself. They need to slim down the operation and increase revenue and profits in order for the company to make the debt payments, otherwise the bank takes over. I've read some analysis on the situation (spoiler alert I am not trained on finance, I don't know if they were being truthful) but apparently they need to a) keep all the advertisers b) keep everyone already paying blue c) get 12 million people to sign up for his new verify-for-pay scheme in order to make the payments.

 

[BadBurger]

It's about money.

Musk and his partners financed the operation by tackling a shitton of debt on Twitter itself. They need to slim down the operation and increase revenue and profits in order for the company to make the debt payments, otherwise the bank takes over. I've read some analysis on the situation (spoiler alert I am not trained on finance, I don't know if they were being truthful) but apparently they need to a) keep all the advertisers b) keep everyone already paying blue c) get 12 million people to sign up for his new verify-for-pay scheme in order to make the payments.

Yea it's pretty severe. Twitter's annual debt payments/whatever went from something like $50m to $800m thanks to this deal. It was $13bn to the banks and several more billion from investors.

With advertisers fleeing and few being attracted to the idea of a paid check / pro account (whatever you want to call it) I don't know how Musk is getting out of this.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Who??

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yea it's pretty severe. Twitter's annual debt payments/whatever went from something like $50m to $800m thanks to this deal. It was $13bn to the banks and several more billion from investors.

With advertisers fleeing and few being attracted to the idea of a paid check / pro account (whatever you want to call it) I don't know how Musk is getting out of this.

Jesus that bad eh?

 

[recursive]

People goto Twitter for gaming news? Fucking lame.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I dont know what kind of savings Musk is expecting (or if there's already projections), but if 3,750 employees got canned at simply a $100,000 annual cost, that's $375M savings per year.

Granted Twitter is paying some severance, and that $100,000 is likely a low number based on the kind of company it is while also considering benefits and bonuses saved too. I just threw out a number as a talking point. But the savings might be $500M or more. If it's $200,000 per person all in, savings are $750M/yr. Comes down to what the average total cost of an employee is at Twitter after all compensation and perks.

 

[BadBurger]

Jesus that bad eh?

Yea, it's actually $845m a year according to all of the sources I can find, up from $51m

Elon Musk’s Buyout Will Load Twitter With Debt, High Leverage Ratio

Elon Musk’s deal to take Twitter private will nearly triple the social-media company’s leverage and saddle it with hundreds of millions of dollars in interest payable on the more than $25 billion used to fund the leveraged buyout.

www.wsj.com

So that explains some of the weird ideas for revenue Musk has come up with as of late.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I find it ironic that many of the people who are angry at Musk for firing 50% of Twitter employees are the same ones pressuring his advertisers and hoping that he loses their support, which will surely result in more layoffs. For the people still working there, that's got to be a strange situation to be in.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I find it ironic that many of the people who are angry at Musk for firing 50% of Twitter employees are the same ones pressuring his advertisers and hoping that he loses their support, which will surely result in more layoffs. For the people still working there, that's got to be a strange situation to be in.

That's because people dont think. And they wonder why they dont get promoted to high level jobs.

It's like union workers doing the same, while going the extra mile preventing delivery trucks from entering the premises to do shipments. How's the company going to pay more money if their own employees are trying to sabotage from within?

Makes no sense, but they are feeling like if they can do all this with strength in numbers (ie banding together as a union), management cant fire all of them and they will eventually bend.

At the end of the day, a business has to move on. Whether it's keeping social media up and running or delivering car parts, management has a responsibility to keep things humming. The average employee has zero responsibility for anything meaningful aside from doing their 9-5 job in their own little universe or cubicle. That's why they act this way. They dont see the numbers or business repercussions. Even if they did, I dont think the average employee would even care or even be able to understand the financials.

 

[Palliasso]

This thread has gone WAY off course