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[Frodo]

GameCube: Analog shoulder buttons with digital click, GBA connectivity
N64: Analog stick.
SNES: Shoulder buttons, fancy marketing names for add on chips. The idea of being expandable in the future was pushed heavily, until the PSX add-on fell through.
NES: Sold with ROB as a gimmick, later they included the Zapper as a gimmick.

Those are gimmicks now?

On topic: I really like having a second screen, even if it is only used for Map display or to accommodate the HUD or inventory management.

Too bad Nintendo will probably drop it for their next console.

 

[freezamite]

Enough to warrant the cost of a controller that's proven to be largely unnecessary?

Yes, I consider that investing $100 to have a much better UI is a fair deal. Other people would pay $200 to have better textures and that's also fine. It's a matter of tastes.

And speaking of necessity, if it improves the user experience to me it's much more necessary than any graphical improvements the PS4 or the Xbox One may bring in form of extra textures and extra particles.

I'm sure Zelda will make good use of it, but that's very likely a 2015 game. And I don't know why you think only knowing about 3 upcoming games (oh, and Bayonetta) is a good sign--I take it as a very concerning one. How many more games can Nintendo have scheduled for this year that we don't know about? I'd wager not terribly many.

I would wait until E3 to say that. In fact, I was hoping that the E3 of last year would've been the one to show the potential of the console, but Nintendo has had bigger development problems than I expected and it seems that nearly everything was pushed a year back.

If in this E3 I don't see anything groundbreaking in terms of gamepad use then I will agree in that the pad will be under utilized, but as I said, the only fact that it improves the user interface is in my opinion enough to justify it.

It seems that anything gameplay-related has to be a complete game changer in order to justify its price, while anything graphic-related is justified no matter how much it costs even if it's only a marginal improvement over what we had until now.

Those are gimmicks now?

On topic: I really like having a second screen, even if it is only used for Map display or to accommodate the HUD or inventory management.

Too bad Nintendo will probably drop it for their next console.

Of course they were "gimmicks" if the Wii-mote is a gimmick. I mean, every single game on the Wii used the movement control in one way or another, and nearly every game on the WiiU benefits from the second screen in one way or another. If those are gimmicks, the other ones weren't anything more than that either.

 

[plufim]

I use off-screen play like 50% of the time I use my WiiU.

No-one. What bollocks.

 

[Dreamwriter]

GameCube: Analog shoulder buttons with digital click, GBA connectivity
N64: Analog stick.
SNES: Shoulder buttons, fancy marketing names for add on chips. The idea of being expandable in the future was pushed heavily, until the PSX add-on fell through.
NES: Sold with ROB as a gimmick, later they included the Zapper as a gimmick.

So you are saying analogue sticks and shoulder buttons/triggers are just gimmicks? Do you only use the d-pad and face buttons in every single game you play? And how is a light gun a gimmick, when light guns were common video game peripherals that all game systems and many arcade games had before the NES, even a lot of pong systems? The NES didn't ship with the Zapper as a gimmick, but because it was a controller gamers and developers expected to be able to make use of.

Do you even know what the word means? A gimmick is a useless gizmo, added to try and trick people into buying more units of something.

 

[Sendou]

A gimmick is a useless gizmo, added to try and trick people into buying more units of something.

Is it? I'm not an expert in English but here's what dictionary says: "A trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade".

So those are definitely gimmicks.

 

[fabricated backlash]

So you are saying analogue sticks and shoulder buttons/triggers are just gimmicks? Do you only use the d-pad and face buttons in every single game you play? And how is a light gun a gimmick, when light guns were common video game peripherals that all game systems and many arcade games had before the NES, even a lot of pong systems? The NES didn't ship with the Zapper as a gimmick, but because it was a controller gamers and developers expected to be able to make use of.

Do you even know what the word means? A gimmick is a useless gizmo, added to try and trick people into buying more units of something.

So how does the Wiimote count as a gimmick then? When it was the primary input method of a whole console and almost it's entire library?
How does the Gamepad count as a gimmick then? It's the primary input device and works with every single game released on the platform?

 

[freezamite]

So you are saying analogue sticks and shoulder buttons/triggers are just gimmicks? Do you only use the d-pad and face buttons in every single game you play? And how is a light gun a gimmick, when light guns were common video game peripherals that all game systems and many arcade games had before the NES, even a lot of pong systems? The NES didn't ship with the Zapper as a gimmick, but because it was a controller gamers and developers expected to be able to make use of.

Do you even know what the word means? A gimmick is a useless gizmo, added to try and trick people into buying more units of something.

As I said, why is an analogue stick less than a gimmick than the motion sensors or the second screen?
All of those serves a clear purpose and improve the gaming experience in one way or another, so why are those gimmicks while analog sticks aren't?
Maybe because Sony also uses analog sticks on their pads? (New definition of gimmick: anything not present on sony gamepads).

So how does the Wiimote count as a gimmick then? When it was the primary input method of a whole console and almost it's entire library?
How does the Gamepad count as a gimmick then? It's the primary input device and works with every single game released on the platform?

Exactly that.

 

[Amazeballs]

This man has clearly never used the gamepad in bed or on the john

 

[Mael]

Speak for yourself.

Tell me how this reflects good on Nicalis in this case or how the whole Oarth's affair helped MSFT.
Heck asks people at Platinium how they feel about that barrage of stupidity coming their way nearly every day.

e: and holy shit people are still talking about gimmicks?

 

[SmokedMeat]

I included Arkham Origins because it has the map displayed on the touchscreen at all times. The GamePad features for City were much better though.

I never even bothered using the gamepad for Origins. Given the combat I'd much rather wield the Pro controller over the bulky gamepad.

I'm over the whole map on a screen thing, it matters so little to me (although it was great in Zelda WW). I'd much rather have a smaller, more ergonomic controller. It really bugs me that I'm forced to use the pad in Lego Marvel, and I wish I could use the Pro for Lego Undercover. I'm not into the gimmick of using the pad as a scanning tool, holding it out in front of me and twisting and turning around. It doesn't make the game more fun.

 

[dragonfart28]

Seems like the gamepad is getting less heat than the Wii controller at least.

 

[KingSnake]

This was uncalled for. I don't see how this is useful for anyone. Yeah, I get, opinions. But antagonizing part of the user base of the console (the ones that love the Gamepad) doesn't seem helpful in any way.

This time would have been better used to finish that great game that should have been out already in December 2013. I pledged for that.

 

[Shard]

Tell me how this reflects good on Nicalis in this case or how the whole Oarth's affair helped MSFT.
Heck asks people at Platinium how they feel about that barrage of stupidity coming their way nearly every day.

e: and holy shit people are still talking about gimmicks?

You blame the holders of the tools for misusing them, Tyrone and Oarth failed to understand both the power of social media and also Twitter is a public space where you can be held accountable for your words. Also stupidity is hardly the exclusive domain of Twitter. On the other hand I have seen Twitter force the hand of Microsoft and rally around the temple of Sony. Also, from personal experience Twitter has been the best social media tool for me to get into contact with various video game industry figures outside of E-Mail.

 

[Jackano]

Thread is moving fast... On original post: I see what Nicalis seems to go.
I kinda agree. I'm actually convinced by the two screens gameplay since... 10 years ago (2004 with the GBA-GC and FSA, then the DS) and I like the gamepad, but all is a matter of balance, and the gamepad should have been weight cheaper in the whole Wii U packaging.

 

[Cheech]

This man has clearly never used the gamepad in bed or on the john

I have a phone for that. I don't require AAA gaming experiences in either of those two places.

The issue I have with the Wii U game pad is it's bulky, the screen is hot garbage you'd expect from a $50 Android tablet, and it just isn't utilized to any great affect.

The Wii had Wii Sports to sell the gimmick to people. The Wii U just was not a properly tested or marketed device.

 

[FyreWulff]

Is it? I'm not an expert in English but here's what dictionary says: "A trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade".

So those are definitely gimmicks.

A gold star for you for actually knowing what a gimmick is.

I've never quite understood this effort to re-write pre-Wii and post-Wii Nintendo as separate companies when they've been doing what they've been doing for a long time. They're a toy company. Toy companies are basically an industry made out of gimmicks.

So you are saying analogue sticks and shoulder buttons/triggers are just gimmicks?

At the time they came out, yes, they were gimmicks.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I see no lies.

 

[Mael]

You blame the holders of the tools for misusing them, Tyrone and Oarth failed to understand both the power of social media and also Twitter is a public space where you can be held accountable for your words. Also stupidity is hardly the exclusive domain of Twitter. On the other hand I have seen Twitter force the hand of Microsoft and rally around the temple of Sony. Also, from personal experience Twitter has been the best social media tool for me to get into contact with various video game industry figures outside of E-Mail.

You misunderstand me, I'm saying that twitter is bad for gaming PR not that it's bad for customers.
It's a tool where marketers can't control reactions and act without being held accountable (like it's so often the case in regular media).
For example the very best tool that PR would use is simply a one way canal where the customers cannot even comment or coordinate and could only consume the content.
That way even if there's a blunder, there's no accountability.
If anything PR drives up the cost of PR since people working for your company need to be monitored if you don't want unwanted attention at a critical time.
I'm not saying it's bad or useless tool, I'm saying that for all intent and purposes it's not the ideal tool for PR (as this topic subject clearly shows).

Seriously what's the immediate result here?
Nicalis is not getting any good publicity (browny points from console warriors who shit on Nintendo every day?) and it's actually generating bad publicity for their direct customers.
A roaring success.

Twitter is also the worst possible tool for political PR but OMG it's so funny.

 

[MYE]

Its always awkward to watch the definition of the word "gimmick" being butchered in real time by people that seem so confident about what they say.

I thought it was put to bed during the Wii era but nope. The one-size-fits-all buzzword is back

 

[dark10x]

I liked the idea of the gamepad out of the gate and there have been some games which made great use of it (ZombiU remaining the best, unfortunately) but it has become increasingly useless over time due to lack of software taking advantage of it.

In the last 6 months I've played almost exclusively using the pro controller rather than the Wii U controller. The Wii U gamepad only sits on its stand while I turn off that display. There's just so little need for it and the battery life is a deterrent.

I really wish some developers WOULD take advantage of it.

 

[KingSnake]

I really wish some developers WOULD take advantage of it.

Right.

That's why the fact that this:

If all goes well, steering wheel, rearview, screen for a second player (so we don't have to do split-screen (if we don't want to)

is buried somewhere in a thread about this:

shows how much of a good idea was the latter.

 

[MYE]

You misunderstand me, I'm saying that twitter is bad for gaming PR not that it's bad for customers.
It's a tool where marketers can't control reactions and act without being held accountable (like it's so often the case in regular media).
For example the very best tool that PR would use is simply a one way canal where the customers cannot even comment or coordinate and could only consume the content.
That way even if there's a blunder, there's no accountability.
If anything PR drives up the cost of PR since people working for your company need to be monitored if you don't want unwanted attention at a critical time.
I'm not saying it's bad or useless tool, I'm saying that for all intent and purposes it's not the ideal tool for PR (as this topic subject clearly shows).

Seriously what's the immediate result here?
Nicalis is not getting any good publicity (browny points from console warriors who shit on Nintendo every day?) and it's actually generating bad publicity for their direct customers.
A roaring success.

Twitter is also the worst possible tool for political PR but OMG it's so funny.

Yep. Somewhere out there somebody won't buy their stuff now because of these comments. You know its true. Call it immaturity, fanboyism or anything else you want, but a lost costumer is a lost costumer and it doesn't take much to lose a gamer's attention and interest when you're not exactly a high profile name in an industry of giants doing their best to charm the money out of your pockets.

The indie scene is such a flaky, impulse buy market. Why the fuck would you throw roadblocks and negative attention between your product and potential costumers?

 

[Mael]

Its always awkward to watch the definition of the word "gimmick" being butchered in real time by people that seem so confident about what they say.

I thought it was put to bed during the Wii era but nope. The one-size-fits-all buzzword is back

Thank god they buried the Blue Ocean Strategy and Christensen, it became unbearable to see the gaming community make fun of itself in the most ignorant way.

Yep. Somewhere out there somebody won't buy their stuff now because of these comments. You know its true. Call it immaturity, fanboyism or anything else you want, but a lost costumer is a lost costumer and it doesn't take much to lose a gamer's attention and interest when you're not exactly a high profile name in an industry of giants doing their best to charm the money out of your pockets.

The indie scene is such a flaky, impulse buy market. Why the fuck would you throw roadblocks and negative attention between your product and potential costumers?

Exactly, the point I'm making but in a more straightforward manner.
I'm no writer that's for sure.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

"How about you make a game that makes good use of it instead"

What a childish retort.

 

[theytookourjobz]

"How about you make a game that makes good use of it instead"

What a childish retort.

You're a childish retort.

Stop flaming him on twitter guys. You're just delaying his Binding of Isaac remake! That is this guy right?

 

[freezamite]

"How about you make a game that makes good use of it instead"

What a childish retort.

Because considering UI a waste is totally adult. Like the one that said that "you can't play Pokémon once you get a job because Pokémon is for kiddies". You're the adults, and the ones that have been playing since the "sprites" era... we are the kiddies now XD

 

[Mlatador]

GameCube: Analog shoulder buttons with digital click, GBA connectivity
N64: Analog stick.
SNES: Shoulder buttons, fancy marketing names for add on chips. The idea of being expandable in the future was pushed heavily, until the PSX add-on fell through.
NES: Sold with ROB as a gimmick, later they included the Zapper as a gimmick.

You have not understood what a gimmick is and therefore you're using the word wrong.

 

[freezamite]

You have not understood what a gimmick is and therefore you're using the word wrong.

No, he understood perfectly what gimmick meant. The ones that doesn't understand it are the same ones saying that the wii-remote or the wiiU gamepad are gimmicks.

 

[Novocaine]

Why are people getting mad? He's right.

It really should have been an optional peripheral. Not that cost is one of the real problems with the system but replacing the gamepad with a pro controller would allow Nintendo to knock off a decent chunk of the price which in turn would help appeal to more people.

They should have made it a peripheral to give the niche group that want to play Mario while taking a shit something to buy. And now if they follow their trend of keeping backwards compatibility with their previous console they have to deal with both this game pad, and remotes, plus whatever new gimmick they come up with for the new system. Yuck.

Fortunately their talk of having more of a symbiotic relationship between home console and handheld might mean their next line of systems will do this without a forced bundle with an expensive controller.

 

[Amazeballs]

I have a phone for that. I don't require AAA gaming experiences in either of those two places.

The issue I have with the Wii U game pad is it's bulky, the screen is hot garbage you'd expect from a $50 Android tablet, and it just isn't utilized to any great affect.

The Wii had Wii Sports to sell the gimmick to people. The Wii U just was not a properly tested or marketed device.

That was sarcasm. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I was poking fun at some of the arguments used to defend the gamepad. Lightly poking though, since I don't have any strong feelings towards it either way.

Personally, I think the debates surrounding the success or failure of a console are somewhat conceited, since it often boils down to people using sales metrics to superimpose their tastes onto others.

Its always awkward to watch the definition of the word "gimmick" being butchered in real time by people that seem so confident about what they say.

I thought it was put to bed during the Wii era but nope. The one-size-fits-all buzzword is back

Strictly speaking, the buzzword form is a stipulative definition of gimmick as it is being used to argue supposed uselessness of videogame mechanics or hardware. Because this specific context is implied in this discussion, the usage is technically okay.

Spoiler

Don't hurt me.

 

[freezamite]

Why are people getting mad? He's right.

It really should have been an optional peripheral. Not that cost is one of the real problems with the system but replacing the gamepad with a pro controller would allow Nintendo to knock off a decent chunk of the price which in turn would help appeal to more people.

They should have made it a peripheral to give the niche group that want to play Mario while taking a shit something to buy. And now if they follow their trend of keeping backwards compatibility with their previous console they have to deal with both this game pad, and remotes, plus whatever new gimmick they come up with for the new system. Yuck.

Fortunately their talk of having more of a symbiotic relationship between home console and handheld might mean their next line of systems will do this without a forced bundle with an expensive controller.

You speak like a shareholder, I speak as a gamer. And as a gamer, to evolve gameplay and enchane the user experience is what I care the most.

Droping the WiiU gamepad may have been better for them financtially speaking this past year (I doubt that releasing a crippled PS4 would be any good idea in terms of marketing), but those kind of "safe bets" is what is damaging this industry the most.

 

[MDX]

tyrone didn't shit on the entirety of the console. he just pointed out how not useful the gamepad is for most people. which is arguably true.

What did he do, finance a survey?
Show me these numbers.
Otherwise he is simply projecting his own insecurities on others.

 

[Mael]

You make a good point, but it raises an important question:

Can we have Cave Story+ in Europe please?

Edit: Addressed above, I suppose. I know it's off-topic, but I would love to know more about this red tape.

I know there was a reason why I didn't care about Nicalis anymore.
That's because they can't ship their shit anyway.
Should spend more time releasing their products and less time on twitter.

 

[batbeg]

People that misappropriate the use of the word "gimmick" drives me nuts. Just because it caught on doesn't change the initial "gimmick" of a previous innovation of input, and just because a current innovation of input doesn't catch on does not make it more of a "gimmick".

On topic I have fucking loved the idea of the gamepad since it's inception and hate how poorly Nintendo have made use of it. I, as a frequent couch co-op gamer, have long envisioned experiments of co-operate and competitive assymetric multiplayer titles and deep synchronous gamestyles that take advantage of play between a touch screen showing you one thing with the screen another. Nintendo and most other developers have (mostly) failed on this and instead just tried to port the same games to the system with poor integration, or made new experiences that are the same experience with the same poor integration. Nintendo really dropped the ball on this. Without capitalizing on the software capabilities I would have to agree it was a waste of resources to make the gamepad.

On the plus side I still enjoy the controller, find it ergonomic, and use off tv play a lot, so that lessens the blow.

 

[Ludist210]

but his opinion isn't representing his company. it's a waste of dev resources because devs either have a difficult time making somthing accessible enough for most gamers to not mind using on the damn thing or not use it at all.

He founded the company. I'd say that's pretty representative.

The thing is, he used to be a Nintendo publicist. He likes Nintendo a lot. He's just as frustrated as we fans are with the Wii U situation.

 

[MYE]

He founded the company. I'd say that's pretty representative.

The thing is, he used to be a Nintendo publicist. He likes Nintendo a lot. He's just as frustrated as we fans are with the Wii U situation.

He is complaining about the machine, not its market situation. Which is to say that if you are a Wii U fan, there is a good chance you won't relate to these complaints or necessarily be entertained or compelled to stand behind a Wii U publisher who dismisses and mocks the very thing that might have attracted you to the console.

 

[Techies]

When will we ever get a game like Strike Vector that controls kinda like the Metroid Nintendoland game?

 

[Novocaine]

You speak like a shareholder, I speak as a gamer. And as a gamer, to evolve gameplay and enchane the user experience is what I care the most.

Droping the WiiU gamepad may have been better for them financtially speaking this past year (I doubt that releasing a crippled PS4 would be any good idea in terms of marketing), but those kind of "safe bets" is what is damaging this industry the most.

I didn't mean it to come off that way, I'm not a shareholder, I am a consumer though. So when I look at the Wii U and see $430 for a console with very few games and not much support from third parties (not unlike the previous generations) I cringe, because I know it could have been a good amount cheaper if they didn't force this game pad.

I mean it wasn't a secret that it wasn't going to change the way we play games from the reveal. All it showed was that games will have a few touch based gimmicks. Off screen play would have come naturally without this pad, the PS3/PSP already set a mold for it, and with both PS4/Vita and Wii U/3DS there was a good chance of it evolving on either side.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I thought he had an account here, maybe he can clear up what he meant?

Yep he does, link

What isn't clear about it?

 

[InfiniteUnrest]

My family loves it. My 8 year old uses it all the time. In fact, I find he's usually using it to play instead of watching the game on the 60" plasma in the living room. So me and my wife end up watching our TV shows while he plays on the tablet controller.

 

[Fehyd]

The pad isn't even a ui improvement for entire genres of games. taking your eyes off the screen to look down seems completely counter intuitive to any sort of fast paced multi player gaming.

Nintendo should have gone with a more robust traditional system, and added a second screen function for tablets and phones.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I'm quite surprised at how many people seem to be dissing the gamepad's screen because of its low resolution, without understanding there were bigger issues than price preventing it from being an HD screen.

People on GAF are supposed to be fairly technology minded...

 

[Vagabundo]

I wasn't gone on the concept when it was unvaled. I really wanted a WiiHD instead, but it's really grown on me. Now I couldn't imagine using the Wii U without it. It makes the whole experience much smoother and enjoyable for me.

The Wii U is my prefered gaming device at the moment.

 

[BGBW]

Nintendo should have gone with a more robust traditional system, and added a second screen function for tablets and phones.

So instead of having one screen to work with you think they would have been better off having to take into account multiple screen sizes and ratios on top of having to potentially ask consumers to upgrade their phones? They would have been better off just making the controller an optional controller in that case.

 

[The Horror the horror]

I love my Wii U, but everything about the Gamepad - from its concept to its execution - contradicts the Nintendo formula of pure local co-op and bringing the family together, which is one of the reasons why I believe the console has been poorly received. The player wielding the Gamepad is effectively isolated and excluded from the other players as a result of being able to execute special features/movements/abilities that other players cannot. In Mario 3D World, for example, the person with the Gamepad can blow into the gamepad to cause platforms to rise or touch points on the gamepad to cause depressed blocks to protrude, while the other player holding the Wii mote has none of these abilities and is basically at the mercy of the other player. That is not what Nintendo games traditionally have been about. Granted, you could always swap the Gamepad and let the other player tinker with its special uses, but then the issue is simply reversed temporarily not solved. Roles are never equalized constantly.

The Wii never had this issue, nor has this been the case with any other major Nintendo console. The only solution is to pull the features from the Gamepad, but then you'll have an expensive peripheral acting as paperweight and dissatisfied customers frustrated with the lack of its utilization and innovation.

Although it's ridiculous to even suggest this, I believe the Wii U could have benefitted from operating with 2 Gamepads simultaneously and for Nintendo to pack them in with the console. Now THAT would have turned some heads. Madden Football (creating/choosing plays without the other player being able to see), poker games (seeing your hand privately), the number of games and different genres that could have reached a new level as a result of this approach would have been amazing.

 

[freezamite]

I didn't mean it to come off that way, I'm not a shareholder, I am a consumer though. So when I look at the Wii U and see $430 for a console with very few games and not much support from third parties (not unlike the previous generations) I cringe, because I know it could have been a good amount cheaper if they didn't force this game pad.

I mean it wasn't a secret that it wasn't going to change the way we play games from the reveal. All it showed was that games will have a few touch based gimmicks. Off screen play would have come naturally without this pad, the PS3/PSP already set a mold for it, and with both PS4/Vita and Wii U/3DS there was a good chance of it evolving on either side.

Asymetric gameplay coupled with better UI is far from a gimmick to me. Off-tv is just a plus over that and what's most gimmicky to me in terms of gamming.
What I don't understand is why having a better UI is gimmicky, and the so called 8 GB of RAM that this far has only translated into better textures and more polygons isn't.

It seems that everything introduced in a gamepad has to be a game changer to be worth it, while at the same time it's fine to pay hundreds of dollars to have better textures and more particles on screen.

In the end, it's all about tastes. I play videogames, other people (the majority here) "experience" them. Different approaches, different conclusions.

 

[DeaviL]

The pad isn't even a ui improvement for entire genres of games. taking your eyes off the screen to look down seems completely counter intuitive to any sort of fast paced multi player gaming.

Nintendo should have gone with a more robust traditional system, and added a second screen function for tablets and phones.

That's Microsoft territory now.
Also, you'd be surprised by the amount of people still using a classic mobile / not owning a tablet.

 

[Lasdrub]

I always said the Wii U is $100 too much. I had new experiences using the GamePad in Nintendoland, but otherwise it has only acted as a second screen to play on. It definitely has not been worth it so far.

 

[Oddduck]

I love my Wii U, but everything about the Gamepad - from its concept to its execution - contradicts the Nintendo formula of pure local co-op and bringing the family together, which is one of the reasons why I believe the console has been poorly received. The player wielding the Gamepad is effectively isolated and excluded from the other players as a result of being able to execute special features/movements/abilities that other players cannot.

Yeah I think the Wii U GamePad just makes multiplayer "look" complicated to the average consumer.

I don't think the average consumer understands the concept of one person using the GamePad, and three people having wii remotes. It looks confusing to anyone who doesn't pay attention to video games on a regular basis.