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Nick Robinson (Polygon) involved in sexual harassment allegations [Suspended]

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He's not on trial, you don't need proof beyond reasonable doubt to decide someone's a shitty person. Or that they should lose their job for that matter.
 
FoxHimself said:
C'mon man, you know as well as me that false accusations happen and that's exactly why the burden of proof is on the accuser - it's common sense and even a basic human right... I'm in no way implying that false accusations are the case here, but when you accuse someone publicly for something as specific as harassment through DMs, you better have something to back it up with.

Again, it's not something that needs to be put out there for all to see, but perhaps to someone who can verify it.
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I think it has been though. His friends, Kessler and Ben would not denounce him if they weren't satisfied.

Stuff is going around just not to us.
 
Don't know anything about the guy, but I wish stuff like this didn't happen. Sucks that the women affected felt unable to speak up for long.
 
Euphor!a said:
Ok? And what does this have at all to do with the bizarre idea that the burden of proof is on him to prove he didn't do this?
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Maybe I misunderstood the post.

Legally he likely doesn't need to prove anything to us...maybe Polygon if he wants to keep his job.

To the general public he needs to say something/prove otherwise
 
Kinyou said:
How can someone prove a negative?
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I don't really think Nick can bring any evidence on this one especially since the "accusations" are so vague but of course there are lots of instances where you can prove or at least bring evidence to a negative. If you accuse me of being in Spain right now, I can easily demonstrate that I'm not.
 
FoxHimself said:
C'mon man, you know as well as me that false accusations happen and that's exactly why the burden of proof is on the accuser - it's common sense and even a basic human right... I'm in no way implying that false accusations are the case here, but when you accuse someone publicly for something as specific as harassment through DMs, you better have something to back it up with.

Again, it's not something that needs to be put out there for all to see, but perhaps to someone who can verify it.
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I've already gone over this in the thread so I don't want to repeat myself but the long and short of it is evidence in a situation like this is complex and there are numerous reasons why it isn't always provided.

The evidence cries also feel moot in this case because this isn't one person's word against another's this is a handful of people against one person. At this point the only reason this story would be false would be due to some nonsense conspiracy.
 
Euphor!a said:
You cannot prove a negative, what don't people get about this?
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He can't refute the allegations without direct accusations but he can give copies of his correspondence with women through twitter's DM system and he can bring in character witnesses to establish his innocence without explicit allegations. But again all of this is something he is going to have to present to his employer we are just a bunch of people on a message board. What we think about him has little effect on his life beyond ignoring him on future content or twitter.
 
I'm late to the party, but even his tweets before this are disgusting and unprofessional. How Polygon allows someone like this to represent their company while simultaneously telling people to shut the fuck up for no reason on Twitter is bewildering. The sexual harassment just makes it 10x more infuriating.
 
Audioboxer said:
This will never reach a court of law, or I would seriously doubt it will (depends how serious accusations get and whether individuals pursue credible charges). In a court of law everyone in here should know the burden of proof is on the accuser(s). Unless you've never paid attention to what happens in a court, you just have to know that.

As this will likely remain as internet accusations (or accusations outside a court), it slightly tips the spotlight to someone like Nick having to be the one who comes out and defends himself, either with a private lawyer, or by handling things himself with his friends/colleagues/job. It's not so much proving a negative as it is going after accusations with credible alibis/reasoning/defence. As he's a public figure he could probably pursue libel or legal action against accusations by requesting Twitter release personal identifying information to law enforcement. Making accusations can have consequences if false.

Given the amount of smoke going off at once, I'd say most will understandably say it's not looking good for Nick. Within 24 hours it's very likely there will be some sort of statement, either of guilt, or as above anyone sane and genuinely innocent would go on a widescale offensive to defend themselves and go after anyone attempting to cause financial harm/security and job loss. If it's a statement of guilt you'll probably find a lawyer might still be involved to handle his inevitable ending of a contract with Polygon and have legal protection in case anyone steps forward against him.
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I'm not sure how possible that is with the accusations being rather vague. I do believe that there's likely something going on considering the smoke, but if he were to feel innocent it would be kind of hard for him to mount a defence without knowing specifics.
 
Brakke said:
I don't really think Nick can bring any evidence on this one especially since the "accusations" are so vague but of course there are lots of instances where you can prove or at least bring evidence to a negative. If you accuse me of being in Spain right now, I can easily demonstrate that I'm not.
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True, but with accusations so vague you will have trouble proving the thing you don't even know what is as wrong.
 
Inviusx said:
I'll stand by Nick on this one unless further info comes out.
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This one is tough. There's enough people coming out and saying SOMETHING that it's very ... hard to not believe something is there.

But, with what is currently public, I don't think it's fair to slam the door on Nick.
 
Wereroku said:
He can't refute the allegations without direct accusations but he can give copies of his correspondence with women through twitter's DM system and he can bring in character witnesses to establish his innocence without explicit allegations. But again all of this is something he is going to have to present to his employer we are just a bunch of people on a message board. What we think about him has little effect on his life beyond ignoring him on future content or twitter.
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DMs can be deleted. He'd have to prove they were never there.
 
I think the most telling thing, besides radio silence from Nick himself, is that nobody that personally knows him is even attempting to step up to defend him.

Even with Faraci you had instances of peers who were sticking up for him or defending his character.
 
Yearsoflurking said:
If I'm innocent ( I'm not sure if he is) I would see nothing positive in writing responses on the net. And yes he should lawyer up and prepare for sexual harassment cases if what is being insinuated is true.
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Considering how the people involved already don't want to be in the spotlight, I really doubt any of them want to drag themselves further into it by bringing this to court.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, if he did do something specifically bad enough to merit it (and I only use "if" because the specifics I've seen are definitely gross and shitty on his part but not at the level that I think it would definitely go places), but, yeah.
 
The proof is the large number of accusations. People have been actually imprisoned with a witness or two and only circumstantial evidence, so why is it absurd to be swayed by what we have seen thus far?
 
Wereroku said:
He can't refute the allegations without direct accusations but he can give copies of his correspondence with women through twitter's DM system and he can bring in character witnesses to establish his innocence without explicit allegations. But again all of this is something he is going to have to present to his employer we are just a bunch of people on a message board. What we think about him has little effect on his life beyond ignoring him on future content or twitter.
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Assuming he did do it, he probably did, him going through his twitter messages and posting a bunch of innocuous messages to woman does not prove he did not send or delete other, more heinous messages. That is why the burden of proof isn't on him, because if he did do it, him picking and choosing messages doesn't prove shit.
 
jay said:
The proof is the large number of accusations. People have been actually imprisoned with a witness or two and only circumstantial evidence, so why is it absurd to be swayed by what we have seen thus far?
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Something something the wikipedia definition of burden of proof.
 
BTA said:
Lawyer up and do... what? Sue them for slander or something? I don't think anyone's going to be bringing a court case against him.
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If he truly finds these accusations to be false and worthy of slander, it -is- his reputation and career at stake at the moment. The accusations have seemingly grown a bit beyond mere silence or a handwave gesture, even if hidden.

Innocence until proven guilty protects him legally, but if the truth remains suppressed on both sides, public opinion will naturally flow where the wind blows and that would absolutely need his immediate attention. I mean if he cares.
 
The most damning thing is that 2 of his friends have come out and said something that implies Nick is guilty. It feels like they may know something more then what we know or speculating.
 
James Scott said:
Maybe I misunderstood the post.

Legally he likely doesn't need to prove anything to us...maybe Polygon if he wants to keep his job.

To the general public he needs to say something/prove otherwise
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Assuming he didn't do it, how does he prove that to the public as you say he needs to?
 
Tiandrad said:
Remember when Colin Moriarty made a simple joke and people tried to end his career over it? I wonder how this will turn out.
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Remember when it wasn't a simple joke and it was actually a deliberately inflammatory tweet specifically designed to make a dumb joke about women on a day dedicated to celebrating them

And then remember how he doubled down on it by playing a victim card and calling anyone who didn't like it a humour less sack of shit.


Remember that?

Yeah this is totally just like that. Despite the dumb shit Colin said he didn't actually target sexual harassment after anyone. Politics are one thing but this isn't gonna just blow over if there's truth to it
 
SexyFish said:
I mean, if the Podburglars aren't standing by him why should you?
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I seen this a couple times, but in this case it would be the best interest for both Matt's and Ben's career to distance themselves from him. I see zero positives in them standing beside him unless they can guarantee his innocence. Basically it would be career suicide to defend him.
 
jay said:
The proof is the large number of accusations. People have been actually imprisoned with a witness or two and only circumstantial evidence, so why is it absurd to be swayed by what we have seen thus far?
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This really bares repeating. The only alternative to their accusations being right in this situation is that a group of people banded together to invent false harrassment claims to sink the reputation of a random video producer at Polygon because ???

It's absurd.
Tiandrad said:
Remember when Colin Moriarty made a simple joke and people tried to end his career over it? I wonder how this will turn out.
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How long have you been sitting on this bad take.
 
SuperStiltzkin said:
Ben can denounce Nick, shun him, and let him descend into an alt-right gamergate hole. Or he can try to talk some sense into his close friend in hopes that he'll try to right his wrongs.

People living hypotheticals saying they'd drop their friend in a heartbeat and drag them in a public platform have never been in that position and shouldn't talk as if they have.
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Yes I have.

This is 2017. I have no sympathy for these awful altright neo Nazi assholes anymore. Friend, family I don't care. You're done.
 
Kinyou said:
I'm not sure how possible that is with the accusations being rather vague. I also believe that there's likely something going on considering the smoke, but if he were to feel innocent it would be kind of hard to mount a defence for him without knowing specifics.
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Others might word it better than me, but the tldr is we aren't in a court of law. As for being vague, they may well be but it's multiple comments from multiple sources coming out after the dam broke which make it concerning. The silence from Nick is both understandable, but also an indicator that there is either a defence being constructed or a way to admit wrongdoing and handle the inevitable fallout of which job loss will 99.9% be forthcoming (you cannot harass or sexually abuse anyone from your place of power in your job and expect to get away with it when caught).

Some of the accusations could be challenged with DMs, but more likely having people defend your character while you subsequently challenge those accusing you would be what you need to do. People who would seemingly be on Nicks side as a friend are already somewhat hanging him out, which is another worrying indication of the smoke having substance. Given the circumstances I'm going to be personally surprised if all this doesn't lead to something having been going on. Then again it doesn't matter jack shit what I think, what matters is what is true and I'm sure that's being hashed out behind the scenes now. As I said, I'd expect some sort of statement within 24 hours.
 
OriginalPoe said:
This one is tough. There's enough people coming out and saying SOMETHING that it's very ... hard to not believe something is there.

But, with what is currently public, I don't think it's fair to slam the door on Nick.
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Yeah, i think people can forgive Nick if he handles the situation right and tries to redeem himself.

Or if it somehow manages to be false
 
Yearsoflurking said:
I seen this a couple times, but in this case it would be the best interest for both Matt's and Ben's career to distance themselves from him. I see zero positives in them standing beside him unless they can guarantee his innocence. Basically it would be career suicide to defend him.
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This is so amazingly cynical to assume their first instincts are to protect their careers
 
jay said:
I don't follow you. Cases have been "proven" by only witness testimony before. The idea that your specific country has the correct version of justice is also suspect to me and you didn't say which country section to read.
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It's ok because no law enforcement of any kind is involved right now so public opinion is the only thing to go by.
 
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