Support NeoGAF

[Bobo Dakes]

What is it with twitter exactly? Do people go on there to make complete assholes of themselves or something?

Twitter is whatever you want it to be. I use it to network and gain different perspectives from people I would never get the chance to meet. I use it to follow people I respect in industries I'd like to work for someday. Nick used it to be an asshole and a creep.

 

[NegativeCero]

Well there it is. I can't imagine he'll easily keep his position in the industry if the Vox investigation leads to his dismissal. And given how small and tight knit it is, Nick is gonna be screwed. Should consider himself lucky that's all he'll lose if so.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Seriously bummed if true, I really loved Coolgames Inc. and Carboys.

 

[Marcel]

I wouldn't be surprised if he just thought that they all liked it tbh

His silence from as soon as the rumblings started is incredibly damning, though

Crisis management 101 is having the person in crisis shut the fuck up on all social platforms until a more formal statement is necessary.

 

[D i Z]

You know you gotta wonder. With the climate of everything. Dude had to have known something like this would eventually get out.

Switch to the lizard side of your brain for it to make sense.

 

[AaronMT86]

Good take from Austin W

 

[BrightLightLava]

So, uh, as someone more or less coming in blind to all of this, what exactly is (or was, whatever) "Soft boy culture"? Or whatever? I see that term getting thrown around a lot and it's completely unknown to me.

It's kinda the same idea behind "beta male" but less insulting and assholeish

Yeah, that's my understanding. But it's also self applied. It's presenting yourself as "one of the good ones" basically. Being outwardly non-threatening.

 

[Acid08]

I guess there's a possibility he was trying to pick up girls in the industry and many of them are framing it as harassment for political reasons. I read somewhere that he and Anita Sarkeesian didn't see eye to eye very well.

And here's the worst take I've seen so far. Wrapping it back around to Anita is a pretty dead giveaway of your intentions.

 

[Sheentak]

Question if the people Nick "DM" dont work for Polygon, could he get fired for this? Like where we stand he has not exactly done anything illegal (with the current information known) and it does not seem to be work place sexual harassment.
Like can you get fired for being a creep in general

 

[OriginalPoe]

Well said. Nobody believes in redemptions anymore, it's like one strike and fuck off forever which I don't understand.

I think this sucks. From what we know: multiple people seem to corroborate an accusation against Nick on Twitter. Nick's closest friends (to our knowledge) come out much later in the day in utter disbelief.

If it's true, I am pretty damn sure Nick is going to understand it's wrong, and from watching him for years he seems like someone who would rather try to change than double down. I hope that's the case.

 

[D i Z]

I guess there's a possibility he was trying to pick up girls in the industry and many of them are framing it as harassment for political reasons. I read somewhere that he and Anita Sarkeesian didn't see eye to eye very well. Anyway, it seems likely he might have gotten creepy with some of the girls coming forward, but I'll wait and see what happens as more info is revealed before passing judgement. Either way though, I doubt he will have a career at Polygon or any major gaming journalism site after this.



Well said. Nobody believes in redemptions anymore, it's like one strike and fuck off forever which I don't understand.

Yeah, your ass ain't fooling anyone with this bullshit either.

 

[BTA]

So, uh, as someone more or less coming in blind to all of this, what exactly is (or was, whatever) "Soft boy culture"? Or whatever? I see that term getting thrown around a lot and it's completely unknown to me.

It's kinda complicated to explain, but it's essentially men whose entire brand/aesthetic is that they're inviting and harmless. I see it used both as genuine and jokey praise, as well as cynically, as this case merits. Turns out sometimes being known for being harmless can give you leeway to do a lot of harm.

 

[Linkin112]

So, uh, as someone more or less coming in blind to all of this, what exactly is (or was, whatever) "Soft boy culture"? Or whatever? I see that term getting thrown around a lot and it's completely unknown to me.

Think fuck boy, but acting more harmless before doing shitty stuff.

 

[Qblivion]

Question if the people Nick "DM" dont work for Polygon, could he get fired for this? Like where we stand he has not exactly done anything illegal (with the current information known) and it does not seem to be work place sexual harassment.
Like can you get fired for being a creep in general

Yes, in California (and most of the US) you can be fired for no reason and without notice.

 

[Alucrid]

I guess there's a possibility he was trying to pick up girls in the industry and many of them are framing it as harassment for political reasons. I read somewhere that he and Anita Sarkeesian didn't see eye to eye very well. Anyway, it seems likely he might have gotten creepy with some of the girls coming forward, but I'll wait and see what happens as more info is revealed before passing judgement. Either way though, I doubt he will have a career at Polygon or any major gaming journalism site after this.



Well said. Nobody believes in redemptions anymore, it's like one strike and fuck off forever which I don't understand.

this is some crackpot garbage

 

[Bowlie]

And here's the worst take I've seen so far. Wrapping it back around to Anita is a pretty dead giveaway of your intentions.

Yep, "i read somewhere".

very good to hear from Waypoint people

 

[Brakke]

I guess there's a possibility he was trying to pick up girls in the industry and many of them are framing it as harassment for political reasons. I read somewhere that he and Anita Sarkeesian didn't see eye to eye very well.

Is "somewhere" Kotaku in Action?

 

[OriginalPoe]

Yeah, your ass with this bullshit too.

The original hypothesis is bullshit but I do think this thread is forgetting that people can change and that's the best outcome.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Crisis management 101 is having the person in crisis shut the fuck up on all social platforms until a more formal statement is necessary.

Which only lends legitimacy to the crisis. Nick was an irreverent self deprecating guy on Twitter and then the moments the jokes got too real he ghosted

 

[Sheentak]

Yes, in California (and most of the US) you can be fired for no reason and without notice.

Woah seriously? man USA employment is kinda fucked. In uk its a bit of a process. Man no wonder why you guys always work overtime.

 

[Vlade]

Nobody believes in redemptions anymore, it's like one strike and fuck off forever which I don't understand.

They don't? It is?

Pretty oversensitive if you gathered that from the discussion. Let's at least let him come clean first, eh?

 

[TheFurizzlyBear]

Yeah, that's my understanding. But it's also self applied. It's presenting yourself as "one of the good ones" basically. Being outwardly non-threatening.

I think less of describing oneself as "one of the good ones" and more recognizing that you are not super masculine. I would figure I fit the category of "soft boy" but not fitting in to that category does not make you an jerk or asshole or whatever

 

[D i Z]

The original hypothesis is bullshit but I do think this thread is forgetting that people can change and that's the best outcome.

Change what? Shaking women down for tit pics????

We can reform him and still worship him!

Not on that wagon with you my dude.

 

[Incandenza]

So, uh, as someone more or less coming in blind to all of this, what exactly is (or was, whatever) "Soft boy culture"? Or whatever? I see that term getting thrown around a lot and it's completely unknown to me.

Basically Nick, Griffin, Justin, and Polygon in general became popular by presenting themselves as friendly, inclusive, genuine, and generally harmless especially towards women and other groups that are typically marginalized in games enthusiast groups (and society in general). The community latched onto the term "soft boys" to refer to Nick and Griffin especially, since they tend to use the word "boy" a bunch and it works as a sort of subversion of masculinity and traditional macho gamer culture.

Which makes the revelation that Nick was using that reputation to be predatory towards women all the more fucking sickening.

 

[Goofalo]

Question if the people Nick "DM" dont work for Polygon, could he get fired for this? Like where we stand he has not exactly done anything illegal (with the current information known) and it does not seem to be work place sexual harassment.
Like can you get fired for being a creep in general

I touched on it briefly in an earlier post of mine. Media facing members of companies, PR, on air folks, etc. typically have behavior clauses in their contracts. All employees generally do, but the ones for those folks very much define how you present yourself even off the company clock through personal social media, because of the inherent connection between the employee and the company.

He's not just Nick Robinson, video game journalist. He's Nick Robinson of Polygon, a division of the Vox Media Group.

 

[OriginalPoe]

Woah seriously? man USA employment is kinda fucked. In uk its a bit of a process. Man no wonder why you guys always work overtime.

In some areas yes it is I live in an at-will state and employers can literally say "you're terminated. Please gather your things and leave by 2pm." And that's it.

Change what? Shaking women down for tit pic????

We can reform him and still worship him!

Not on that wagon with you my dude.

No no no, first of all I hope no one worshipped him ever, secondly he has to do some time for the crime. But 5 years down the road if he's a good person and reformed why should I not give him another chance? That's my point.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Question if the people Nick "DM" dont work for Polygon, could he get fired for this? Like where we stand he has not exactly done anything illegal (with the current information known) and it does not seem to be work place sexual harassment.
Like can you get fired for being a creep in general

Yes. This isn't gonna be something everyone at Polygon knows about and simply ignores and continues to work with him while there's a giant elephant in the background. Not to mention he's a face in a VERY public industry. Also, this is Polygon, more than any outlet, they have a zero tolerance for this kind of thing.

 

[Intheflorsh]

It's been five minutes since we all even learned about this and Nick has said fuck all, usually "redemption" requires apologizing and genuine, long term effort to become a better person.

 

[The_R3medy_]

Question if the people Nick "DM" dont work for Polygon, could he get fired for this? Like where we stand he has not exactly done anything illegal (with the current information known) and it does not seem to be work place sexual harassment.
Like can you get fired for being a creep in general

I don't know if it is like this in CA, but it may well be an at-will employment state, meaning they can fire him for whatever reason.

Beyond that, contracts Vox has would probably have a clause that could get him fired if these things could damage the brand.

 

[OriginalPoe]

It's been five minutes since we all even learned about this and Nick has said fuck all, usually "redemption" requires apologizing and genuine, long term effort to become a better person.

It's been more than five minutes?

 

[Brakke]

Woah seriously? man USA employment is kinda fucked. In uk its a bit of a process. Man no wonder why you guys always work overtime.

It's a little more complicated. There are a number of things you can't be fired for anywhere like being a woman or being black or whatever. Some states expand the federal list to more groups. In some states you can't just be fired for nothing.

Even in at-will states where you don't need a cause to fire someone, it's usually worth establishing cause if you can because that'll usually effect whether you can collect unemployment insurance from the state.

 

[Intheflorsh]

It's been more than five minutes?

That was a figure of speech.

 

[D i Z]

In some areas yes it is I live in an at-will state and employers can literally say "you're terminated. Please gather your things and leave by 2pm." And that's it.



No no no, first of all I hope no one worshipped him ever, secondly he has to do some time for the crime. But 5 years down the road if he's a good person and reformed why should I not give him another chance? That's my point.

Who ever told you that he was a good person? Why are we even talking about letting him off the hook when we haven't even attached his predatory ass to it yet?

 

[DoctorDake]

I touched on it briefly in an earlier post of mine. Media facing members of companies, PR, on air folks, etc. typically have behavior clauses in their contracts. All employees generally do, but the ones for those folks very much define how you present yourself even off the company clock through personal social media, because of the inherent connection between the employee and the company.

True but also... most US states have at-will employment. They don't need a reason, as long as it doesn't fall under Title VII (discrimination).

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Glad to see Polygon has taken action as well as some great thoughts on the matter from Waypoint.

 

[OriginalPoe]

Who ever told you that he was a good person? Why are we even talking about letting him off the hook when we haven't even attached his predatory ass to it yet?

Because I thought he seemed alright from what I saw of him since early rev3...

 

[Bahorel]

Even if we weren't discussing at will they would have reason to terminate. Being publicly known for sexual harassment at a company that relies on their public image is damaging enough

 

[Neptonic]

Basically Nick, Griffin, Justin, and Polygon in general became popular by presenting themselves as friendly, inclusive, genuine, and generally harmless especially towards women and other groups that are typically marginalized in games enthusiast groups (and society in general). The community latched onto the term "soft boys" to refer to Nick and Griffin especially, since they tend to use the word "boy" a bunch and it works as a sort of subversion of masculinity and traditional macho gamer culture.

Which makes the revelation that Nick was using that reputation to be predatory towards women all the more fucking sickening.

I fucking use the word boy a lot because of them
It feels gross now to say it

 

[Nephrahim]

Thanks for the explanations, everyone. Seems a little odd but maybe that's just bias from finding out about it like this.

 

[The Third Heat]

I'm a big McElroy fan and thusly have become a casual fan of a lot of their Polygon stuff, so I'm feeling the sting from this bit of news. He always seemed decent enough, even if I didn't find his sense of humor all that interesting. But that's neither here nor there. Polygon did the right thing.

But honestly, what sucks the most about this is the culture that arises when women speak out against this kind of activity. This is why this stuff is allowed to happen. The victim blaming keeps predators in power and it really needs to stop.

 

[D i Z]

Because I thought he seemed alright from what I saw of him since early rev3...

Everyone seems alright on camera. That's what they get paid to do!!!!1!

 

[Goofalo]

True but also... most US states have at-will employment. They don't need a reason, as long as it doesn't fall under Title VII (discrimination).

You don't need a reason. But we always have one, because people lawyer up and file a complaint against us a couple weeks after being terminated. It saves the expense of having to go to court. Have a good reason. Tell them to withdraw the complaint. If not, then the reason becomes public record. Most people don't want that.

 

[Brakke]

But 5 years down the road if he's a good person and reformed why should I not give him another chance? That's my point.

Dog like. This is fine and all but it just doesn't matter right now. It won't really be relevant to bring up until those five years have passed, you know?

 

[Qblivion]

It's been five minutes since we all even learned about this and Nick has said fuck all, usually "redemption" requires apologizing and genuine, long term effort to become a better person.

Yes, but do you honestly really expect him to be sincerely apologetic? He has been known to be a caustic asshole hidden under a layer of silly goofs.

 

[Sheentak]

I touched on it briefly in an earlier post of mine. Media facing members of companies, PR, on air folks, etc. typically have behavior clauses in their contracts. All employees generally do, but the ones for those folks very much define how you present yourself even off the company clock through personal social media, because of the inherent connection between the employee and the company.

He's not just Nick Robinson, video game journalist. He's Nick Robinson of Polygon, a division of the Vox Media Group.

woah thank you for explaining this to me. So behavior clauses are they defined or are they kinda vague i.e dont do anything that makes the company look bad

 

[Bahorel]

I fucking use the word boy a lot because of them
It feels gross now to say it

If it makes you feel better it came from griffin, not from nick

 

[OriginalPoe]

Everyone seems alright on camera. That's what they get paid to do!!!!1!

You know what I mean. I watch games media with employees I think I'd like in person because it translates well to me finding things I like based on their content.

Giant Bomb was my first group I found, then Rev3, then Kinda Funny, etc.

Some people seem more "legit" on camera, and Nick was one of them to me. He seemed like a good person. That's all. If all this is true, I was a fool.

Dog like. This is fine and all but it just doesn't matter right now. It won't really be relevant to bring up until those five years have passed, you know?

Alright yea you have a good point. Sorry.

 

[Linkin112]

It's been five minutes since we all even learned about this and Nick has said fuck all, usually "redemption" requires apologizing and genuine, long term effort to become a better person.

If his earlier in the week tweets are anything to go off of, he's too busy playing Splatfest to comment on anything.

 

[TheFurizzlyBear]

If it makes you feel better it came from griffin, not from nick

This. Griffin was a good good worker boy on MBMBAM before they were soft car boys

If his earlier in the week tweets are anything to go off of, he's too busy playing Splatfest to comment on anything.

As many have said

Spoiler

including myself

, he has probably been told by his job to not say anything till the investigation is done

 

[BrightLightLava]

If his earlier in the week tweets are anything to go off of, he's too busy playing Splatfest to comment on anything.

He was going to Portland for the Polygon work retreat... 😬