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[ItWasMeantToBe19]

To be clear, there are more than two plot twists and far more amazing story elements in this game, but I just want to focus on two twists that while maybe not the most shocking ever, were the best executed twists I've seen in a video game in a long time.

Plot twist #1: The lives of the main characters have no meaning.

Nier is about what existence and life means but it starts out in a way that is confusing to many players that played the original. In the original game, you accidentally cause the future extinction of the human race. In this game, some of the human race still survives on the moon as stated constantly in game. It's odd and it seems like an unmentioned retcon or something at first because there aren't really whispers to the contrary IIRC.

And then it turns out that humanity did go extinct.

This particular part of the twist is amazing in its execution because the game just doesn't need to drop hints that humanity is extinct due to the prior game stating that humanity will be extinct! You just go along thinking that there's a retcon or humans somehow managed to survive due to tech breakthroughs, but then the game says no, that was just a lie. It feels so obvious in retrospect, but it's surprising in the moment, which is a perfect twist.

In Nier 1, there were androids left behind who were supposed to help restore humanity, but they failed. After a while, humans went extinct while androids stayed behind. Some of these androids who discovered the truth of human extinction were demoralized and lost since they were without "purpose" with humanity dead. They supposed to help humanity and now humanity was gone. Much later, aliens invaded the earth and sent thousands of robots to attack Emil (the superweapon character from the original game) and anything left on earth. This gave one android (in universe not named or mentioned at all as of now) the idea that androids could have purpose again if they were they were fighting against the aliens to help humanity retake the earth. To do this, he/she created a special military unit of androids in space with some of these androids setting up a server on the moon that could send signals pretending to be from humanity to androids on earth.

But this military unit was designed to only be temporary and they (some certain group(s) or android(s) unclear as of now I believe) set up security weaknesses in the military unit so that it could be destroyed by viruses created by the aliens' robots. Then, the secret of humanity being extinct could be kept. On the other side of the conflict, the aliens were killed off by their robot creations long ago.

This twist sets up your characters as androids whose purpose is to propagate a lie (unknowingly on your end) and be killed to complete the lie. The purpose of the attempted lie is to achieve endless war that serves literally no point as both sides (aliens and humans) have been dead for thousands of years. It's so bleak and so dark and fits the themes of the game so well. In the game, it's implicitly asked if the androids' lives have any meaning if their "purpose" is to fight in a war that has no point. It's an examination of the absurd lengths we will go to pretend our lives have specific purposes and what it means when those purposes turn out to be lies. Considering how many us look for a purpose in life, I found this reveal just so cutting.

Also perfect is that this twist is revealed on your second playthrough. The end boss of the first and second playthrough has this line of dialog.

"I know you two feel the same. That this world...is utterly meaningless."

This line just feels like an expression of the villain's pain on the first playthrough. On the second playthrough, the line manages to take on a more dramatic tone because one of your characters does feel the same, having just found out that this world does have essentially no meaning from some perspectives. It's pretty staggering to see a line take on so much extra meaning (lol, meaning) the second time around in a video game.


Plot twist 2: Not 2B

2B is the first playable character in Nier Automata and her name is a pun on "To be or not to be" because the game itself also deals with the question of existence. One of the very last plot twists is that... The character is not 2B.

To clarify this, things like "2B" "9S" or "2E" refer to production types with Type B androids being supposedly elite fights while Type E androids were built to execute other androids. 2B is a Type E android and is actually 2E (I will call her 2B from now on for convenience though)

While this play on "To be or not to be?" alone is incredible, the twist is great in that it manages to completely justify the strangest behaviors from 2B and other characters earlier in the game.

You see, 9S is 2B's partner and the Type S units are hacker types. These types were really important for learning info on the robot army, but their skills were so advanced that they might be able to hack into the main military base and find out the truth about the androids having no meaning or purpose. To stop this from happening, whenever a hacker android would learn the truth, they would have an execution android go and kill him/her. For 9S... This executioner is 2B. After the execution, the hackers would have their memories reset (androids have memories stored in data banks back on base) so they didn't remember their executioner or the truth and the cycle would start again.

9S found out the truth a lot so 2B executed him... a lot. These constant executions of 9S caused a huge amount of emotional trauma to 2B and this context manages to explain all of the weirdest emotional scenes in the game.

At the end of the first and second playthroughs, 9S is infected with a bad virus and asks 2B to kill this version of him. For 9S and the player, this seems pretty reasonable as 9S will just lose like a day of memories. 2B freaks out instead and talks about how 9S will be losing the him that exists in this very moment. After a while, 2B relents and strangles 9S and then cries out "it always ends like this."

Without the context, 2B looks a little dramatic and the line "it always ends like this" is somewhat vague and seems like it could refer to other failed missions or dead partners. With the context, it's devastating. 2B has erased years of 9S's life and destroyed many versions of 9S as a person. It's hard for 2B to believe she's not killing 9S because so many of her prior executions of 9S left him missing so many memories that the old 9S might as well be dead.

Another odd scene comes when 9S finds the truth and confronts the commander about it. The commander... Doesn't get that upset and just confirms the story. The commander makes no attempt to apprehend 9S or anything. It feels strange because the secret getting out is what the commander wants least in the entire world.

But then in the context of the twist, you know that the commander thinks 2B will just kill 9S soon so it doesn't matter. It makes the scene so different...

This plot-twist is heavily foreshadowed with two disturbing sidequests. In one, an android's friend has been killed and she wants to know who did it. Later on, it turns out that she was the one who was doing the killing as she was an execution class android. She had gone mad from the guilt and had gone so far as to bury/erase her own memories to get over the guilt.

Another side quest is more masterful. In it, there's an android couple that look like they just want to be free of this war. It turns into a long con that ends with the female android pleading for them to reset their memories. After you reset the male android's memories... The female android thanks you and tells you that she had really been wanting to make modifications to his personality and that was the main goal of this whole con. The female android has no concerns with spending so much time with an android that she has essentially killed several times over. It's disgusting and gives you a visceral reaction when you complete the quest... It's also basically the relationship with 2B and 9S. It allows you to feel the visceral hate 2B feels for herself without the potential of empathy for 2B interfering. It's incredible.

The twist also puts 2B's detachness to 9S in a new perspective and puts a great line in a new perspective. As 9S, you get hacked into by a powerful machine that starts a text chat (sort of) with you. After a while, a kind of wow/wham line appears with "I know you want to **** 2B." It comes as this funny and kind of shocking (just for being so blunt) line when you see it. However, it turns out that 9S still has some extremely vague recollection of how many times 2B has killed him. Once you know this, instead of "you want to fuck 2B" you start thinking about "you want to kill 2B."

Anyway, I hope I've explained what I think these twists are so insanely well put together in the context of the game and why they impacted me a lot. The game is far more than twists (as every game should be) and there's tons more to talk about.with regards to this game, but I hope I put out a decent case for these two specific parts of the game.

 

[Jintor]

The recontextualisation of the 2b/9s relationship is one of the most effective and most devastating things a game has done to me in recent memory

 

[Inuhanyou]

Have you played a Yoko Taro game before OP? Just wondering. People who havent usually are way more blown away than people used to his brand of writing

 

[MetalliCabombination]

The only legit shocking twist i couldnt see coming was that pascal doesnt turn into a backstabbing bastard and is just as much a nice guy as he lets on.
And the he gets that incredibly sad resolution to his story.
Didn't care for either of the 3 leads tbh, maybe 9s a bit but the other 2 were boring.maybe thats why the 2b twist didnt do shit for me either

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Have you played a Yoko Taro game before OP? Just wondering. People who havent usually are way more blown away than people used to his brand of writing

I played Nier 1, but Nier 1 has a much different style of story.

Nier 1 obviously has a lot of incredible story parts (along with the really boring story parts when you start getting the Shades' perspective).

But these two plot twists just felt so well executed and like they were using foreshadowing techniques that I hadn't seen in years or ever.

 

[Hektor]

Having replayed the entire game shortly after finishing it, the way the game drops hints at things that won't be important until 40 hours later was incredibly well done.

There is so much dialogue in the game that you'll shrug off as seemingly irrelevant fluff, until you revisit the game with the full knowledge of the characters and their backgrounds that it's legitimately shocking at times.




The thing about humanity surviving is funny, in the time leading up to the release one of the most asked questions was "how did humanity survive?" and I was legitimately disappointed that they retconned OG nier's rather extreme ending, so I was surprised and relieved about that twist more so than shocked lol.

It's a twist that in on itself definitely works better for people that haven't played the first nier, but as someone who did, I appreciate the idea of retconning a story and have the twist be that no actual retcon occurred.

Im pretty sure that's what taro meant when he often said that people who played original are going to be more confused by the game than those who didn't.

 

[killatopak]

i agree 100%.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Having replayed the entire game shortly after finishing it, the way the game drops hints at things that won't be important until 40 hours later was incredibly well done.

There is so much dialogue in the game that you'll shrug off as seemingly irrelevant fluff, until you revisit the game with the full knowledge of the characters and their backgrounds that it's legitimately shocking at times.




The thing about humanity surviving is funny, in the time leading up to the release one of the most asked questions was "how did humanity survive?" and I was legitimately disappointed that they retconned OG nier's rather extreme ending, so I was surprised and relieved about that twist more so than shocked lol.

It's a twist that in on itself definitely works better for people that haven't played the first nier, but as someone who did, I appreciate the idea of retconning a story and have the twist be that no actual retcon occurred.

Im pretty sure that's what taro meant when he often said that people who played original are going to be more confused by the game than those who didn't.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a piece of media fakeout a retcon before, it's brilliant.

 

[Deimo5]

I wasn't that surprised by the first one and i kinda wish they spent more time on the second though i guess it works fine still anyway,

 

[Basileus777]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a piece of media fakeout a retcon before, it's brilliant.

I don't really think it was even a fakeout. Humanity being dead and not on the moon was more of a red herring of a twist that was made obvious super early that misdirected you from the other things going on.

 

[Ventara]

Eh, those 2 twists didn't really do it for me. The first one I kinda saw coming and the second one I had pretty much stopped caring about 9S. Overall, I kinda felt the story was lacking compared to Nier 1, but still good.

 

[Kthulhu]

Yup. Nier Automata is probably gonna be my GOTY. Probably my favorite story in a videogame too.

Have you played a Yoko Taro game before OP? Just wondering. People who havent usually are way more blown away than people used to his brand of writing

I watched an LP of Nier 1 and my thoughts echo OPs. While the first twist was something I speculated on, the second was out of left field for me.

The only legit shocking twist i couldnt see coming was that pascal doesnt turn into a backstabbing bastard and is just as much a nice guy as he lets on.
And the he gets that incredibly sad resolution to his story.
Didn't care for either of the 3 leads tbh, maybe 9s a bit but the other 2 were boring.maybe thats why the 2b twist didnt do shit for me either

The choice you have to make with Pascal was probably one of the moments I've had to put the most thought into in a game.

 

[Uraizen]

The twist also puts 2B's detachness to 9S in a new perspective and puts a great line in a new perspective. As 9S, you get hacked into by a powerful machine that starts a text chat (sort of) with you. After a while, a kind of wow/wham line appears with "I know you want to **** 2B." It comes as this funny and kind of shocking (just for being so blunt) line when you see it. However, it turns out that 9S still has some extremely vague recollection of how many times 2B has killed him. Once you know this, instead of "you want to fuck 2B" you start thinking about "you want to kill 2B."

You just blew my mind and how he reacted makes way more sense now.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I didn't feel very strongly about the second twist and the first I saw coming a mile away. I knew it as soon as I saw the empty pods heading to Earth at the beginning of the game.

The aliens ended up being inconsequential to the main narrative (outside of their past influence) which I found very disappointing. There was potential for something there, although I get what Taro was going for, as you described in the OP.

Overall I think NieR told a much better and more shocking story. I went into this game knowing it would have the "Taro twist," which probably has a lot to do with why it fell sort of flat; I knew it would be unapologetically bleak from the very beginning, so none of it was surprising. I spent the whole time waiting for the next depressing thing and never being surprised when it popped up.

I am glad other people enjoyed it. This thread was more enjoyable than the game to me, OP's enthusiasm is a bit contagious.

 

[sobaka770]

It's nice to see that you enjoyed the game that much.

I loved Nier Automata, but I disagree with you on these points.

The humans are actually extinct - the conflict is meaningless, plot is barely a twist. As soon as the story kicks off and you're told that humans are on the moon and we never actually see one (only audio propaganda), it's pretty much obvious that it's all just a ruse to keep Androids fighting. It's actually not that rare of a trope. However, I was interested in how it would all pan out, who was behind this and it was executed well, even though with plot holes.

As for the 2E reveal, I didn't feel it at all. It came too late, and honestly didn't make any major shifts in the story by that point. It also opens up once again weird inconsistencies like the very first mission, where 2B could've easily been shot down.

For me, Automata succeeds more during smaller character moments, such as the robots discovering humanity, their understanding of our history, appropriation and perversion of our traits. Pascal's story is downright brutal. The overarching story, on the other hand, no matter how I spin it, doesn't really make a lot of sense with the whole backdoor virus confusion and rocket launched at the moon. It feels like we're a few explanations short from getting a complete and coherent narrative.

 

[Herla]

To me what was effective was less the "humanity was extinct all along!!!" twist, and more realizing that it was only the beginning.
"at least you have Yorha" ..oh.
"at least 2b and 9s have each other" ...oh.
"at least pascal's village shows there's hope" ...oh ffs.

And then I'm like "why the hell am I even playing anymore?" ... Because there's still more game to play. And then Ending E hits me: "playing videogames is not meaningless, and you're not alone in this". The game was actually about me?
"Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarassment"
I KNEW IT.

Then again, Ending E is so effective because I feel every person will give it a different meaning depending on how they feel when they experience it. It could just be a meta commentary about wanting to see a happy ending at all costs, or even about Yoko Taro being able to make the game thanks to the support of the fans...

 

[LotusHD]

Yea, the way this game recontexualizes things is some top-tier shit. Also lol at your username OP, slightly fitting.

This thread was more enjoyable than the game to me, OP's enthusiasm is a bit contagious.

Pretty how I feel whenever they post how they feel about this game lol

It's nice to see that you enjoyed the game that much.

I loved Nier Automata, but I disagree with you on these points.

The humans are actually extinct - the conflict is meaningless, plot is barely a twist. As soon as the story kicks off and you're told that humans are on the moon and we never actually see one (only audio propaganda), it's pretty much obvious that it's all just a ruse to keep Androids fighting. It's actually not that rare of a trope. However, I was interested in how it would all pan out, who was behind this and it was executed well, even though with plot holes.

I too thought the twist was pretty obvious, but I felt it was more about seeing how 9S reacted to it, why the Commander told him about it so casually, etc. Which of course as we know, ties into the whole 2B/2E thing, as well as assisting in 9S' gradual decline in Route C.

As for the 2E reveal, I didn't feel it at all. It came too late, and honestly didn't make any major shifts in the story by that point. It also opens up once again weird inconsistencies like the very first mission, where 2B could've easily been shot down.

Huh? I don't understand this part.

For me, Automata succeeds more during smaller character moments, such as the robots discovering humanity, their understanding of our history, appropriation and perversion of our traits. Pascal's story is downright brutal. The overarching story, on the other hand, no matter how I spin it, doesn't really make a lot of sense with the whole backdoor virus confusion and rocket launched at the moon. It feels like we're a few explanations short from getting a complete and coherent narrative.

What exactly didn't make sense?

The recontextualisation of the 2b/9s relationship is one of the most effective and most devastating things a game has done to me in recent memory

Mhm...

 

[Antiwhippy]

As for the 2E reveal, I didn't feel it at all. It came too late, and honestly didn't make any major shifts in the story by that point. It also opens up once again weird inconsistencies like the very first mission, where 2B could've easily been shot down.

I mean you can say that for any story. If anything Nier Automata actually gives you an ending where she failed the first mission!

Really, we're supposed to believe that 2B is supposed to be elite in a way. And they justify it by giving her what seems like a pretty important mission with a heavy duty, and also that she is based on A2 who is considered to be a top priority target.

For me, Automata succeeds more during smaller character moments, such as the robots discovering humanity, their understanding of our history, appropriation and perversion of our traits. Pascal's story is downright brutal. The overarching story, on the other hand, no matter how I spin it, doesn't really make a lot of sense with the whole backdoor virus confusion and rocket launched at the moon. It feels like we're a few explanations short from getting a complete and coherent narrative.

What confusion do you have with the backdoor virus? I thought it was explained pretty well in-game.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I mean, there's more to the game than the twists and these weren't my absolute favorite moments of the game (the true ending is), but it felt like these two plot twists had a lot of interesting ideas on story presentation and everything fit together perfectly with these two twists.

Nier 1's room of slaughtering children near the end of the game was perfect also and I should probably make a thread about that eventually...

 

[BocoDragon]

I never once for a moment believed humans were alive in this game. The tone of the game is so implicitly about these androids and machines fighting a war for long gone reasons.

If humans existed, we would have been shown them early on. Their initial message feels recorded and fake and the characters comment on that fact.

 

[LotusHD]

Surprised you didn't mention 2B's opening monologue OP. Went from being rather cheesy/edgy to being quite depressing.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Surprised you didn't mention 2B's opening monologue OP. Went from being rather cheesy/edgy to being quite depressing.

I had been typing this for a while and it's two in the morning so if I typed more, it probably would have been incoherent, lol.

 

[ViviOggi]

The twist for me about the obvious fact of humanity being long gone was that the game didn't play it up as a twist

 

[LotusHD]

I had been typing this for a while and it's two in the morning so if I typed more, it probably would have been incoherent, lol.

Fair enough lol

The twist for me about the obvious fact of humanity being long gone was that the game didn't play it up as a twist

Yea, like I said, it's more the fact that it is very interesting to see how this information is being given, as well as received.

 

[Siphorus]

This is so far shaping up to be my game of the year and I'm not sure much else will come close. It's beautifully crafted, dark, and well thought out. In many ways it's ironic since this dead, skeletal world has so much more life to it than other games. It's been one of the few games where I cherish the lore, since it's clear that Taro spent a lot of time making sure that this world is entirely flushed out.

Everything about it is sewn with a intricate hand, many characters reference philosophers, such as Jean Paul and Simone, even the more mundane characters reference other famous philosophers. The undertones from Adam and Eve's Cain and Able like tonality is even mentioned. The brilliant part of it all is that these characters play out like their referenced selves as if they were interacting with each other in the same slice of time.

However I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of the two red headed girls and the meaning behind the aliens network creating Adam and Eve, however my current theory is that the alien network at some point decided to split or evolve? Or maybe they're just entities from within the network?

All in all, this is one of the best games I've played in a long time. I really hope Taro and Platinum make another game together. I really like your take though OP, it put a lot of details into perspective that I didn't notice before and as a first time nier player the twists were certainly welcomed warmly

 

[Mailbox]

Surprised you didn't mention 2B's opening monologue OP. Went from being rather cheesy/edgy to being quite depressing.

imo it went from cheesing/edgy to depressing to "how the fuck did you make that work so damn well, you madmen!"

Seriously, how ending E fully re-contextualizes the opening monologue ("killing god" is basically what you do in ending E since you kill the literally makers of the game) is crazy well done, and something that will probably fly over many people's heads.

However I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of the two red headed girls and the meaning behind the aliens network creating Adam and Eve, however my current theory is that the alien network at some point decided to split or evolve? Or maybe they're just entities from within the network?

You mean devola & popola or do you mean the machine network?
You can think of the machine network as being a sort of meta-cognition, but devola&popola are "returning characters" from Nier.

 

[BocoDragon]

Surprised you didn't mention 2B's opening monologue OP. Went from being rather cheesy/edgy to being quite depressing.

I loved that line at face value, but maybe I have an inner edge lord who likes casual blasphemy. I still think only Japanese media would dare produce a line about wanting to kill the god who created them. The popular monotheism of other nations makes it either taboo or tacky.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I loved that line at face value, but maybe I have an inner edge lord who likes casual blasphemy. I still think only Japanese media would dare produce a line about wanting to kill the god who created them. The popular monotheism of other nations makes it either taboo or tacky.

I mean it's kind of a JRPG cliche lol.

But Nier makes it about something else entirely.

 

[LotusHD]

However I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of the two red headed girls and the meaning behind the aliens network creating Adam and Eve, however my current theory is that the alien network at some point decided to split or evolve? Or maybe they're just entities from within the network.

The two red headed girls represent the network if I recall correctly. There being two girls represents said network getting split, and said split is the reason we saw machines like Adam and Eve, Pascal, etc. Or something like that.

imo it went from cheesing/edgy to depressing to "how the fuck did you make that work so damn well, you madmen!"

Seriously, how ending E fully re-contextualizes the opening monologue ("killing god" is basically what you do in ending E since you kill the literally makers of the game) is crazy well done, and something that will probably fly over many people's heads.

Yea, we discussed all that and more in the Spoiler thread. Good stuff. Also fuck Square Enix lmao

I loved that line at face value, but maybe I have an inner edge lord who likes casual blasphemy. I still think only Japanese media would dare produce a line about wanting to kill the god who created them. The popular monotheism of other nations makes it either taboo or tacky.

I didn't hate the line, if anything, it's certainly a way to draw you into the game, but it's definitely the kind of thing that lends itself to being mocked by people. That is, until you beat the game of course.

 

[Mailbox]

I loved that line at face value, but maybe I have an inner edge lord who likes casual blasphemy. I still think only Japanese media would dare produce a line about wanting to kill the god who created them. The popular monotheism of other nations makes it either taboo or tacky.

Yeah, I kinda doubt that any European or North American production would go so damn far with the religious themeing and the huge "God is Dead" that basically appears everywhere in the game

"Become as Gods" sure as hell wouldn't be a thing.

Yea, we discussed all that and more in the Spoiler thread. Good stuff. Also fuck Square Enix lmao

Yeah. I remember someone saying how "who knew that 'Shit Square Enix!' would be the biggest spoiler for the game". That had me rolling XD

 

[Renekton]

Actually, why did the village robots become zombies?

 

[BocoDragon]

I mean it's kind of a JRPG cliche lol.

But Nier makes it about something else entirely.

True. But I still think it's a fascinating idea because most worldwide media would never (could never) go there.

 

[Mailbox]

True. But I still think it's a fascinating idea because most worldwide media would never (could never) go there.

Well, they would, but it would never be Christianity that gets the hit.

 

[Siphorus]

imo it went from cheesing/edgy to depressing to "how the fuck did you make that work so damn well, you madmen!"

Seriously, how ending E fully re-contextualizes the opening monologue ("killing god" is basically what you do in ending E since you kill the literally makers of the game) is crazy well done, and something that will probably fly over many people's heads.



You mean devola & popola or do you mean the machine network?
You can think of the machine network as being a sort of meta-cognition, but devola&popola are "returning characters" from Nier.

Devola and Popola. They strike me as out of place, and after playing through this I've been putting a lot of thought into how events take place within the game, since nothing is truly out of place in this game. (That being said it makes the details quite a pain because sometimes I'm not sure if something is actually connected or not, hah.)

 

[Antiwhippy]

Actually, why did the village robots become zombies?

Still connected to the network, and from what I know the Main Network wanted to get rid of different evolutionary branches before flying out to space or whatever. Also to collect back resources from the resource towers?

 

[LotusHD]

Oh yea, I suppose that was a spoiler. Never noticed until now lol

---

The twist also puts 2B's detachness to 9S in a new perspective and puts a great line in a new perspective. As 9S, you get hacked into by a powerful machine that starts a text chat (sort of) with you. After a while, a kind of wow/wham line appears with "I know you want to **** 2B." It comes as this funny and kind of shocking (just for being so blunt) line when you see it. However, it turns out that 9S still has some extremely vague recollection of how many times 2B has killed him. Once you know this, instead of "you want to fuck 2B" you start thinking about "you want to kill 2B."

Oh, speaking of this, replaying the game was so neat in regards to seeing the rare moments when it appeared that 9S has a faint recollection of the truth behind his relationship with 2B. You mentioned the **** line, but another gold moment was when he was stabbing the shit out of 2B in his mind, who appeared to be attempting to tamper with his memories. Or when he got weirdly excited to fight a bunch of 2B clones. Before the Route C reveals, I just thought the dude didn't want to forget 2B, or that he was pissed that the machines would dare to fuck with him by creating clones to begin with. But after A2 reveals that deep down, he knew all along, it's like... "Oh shit."

He stabs the shit out of 2B, because he's pissed for all the times she's killed him and erased his memory. He gets excited to kill the 2B clones because deep down this gives him an opportunity to release the pent-up aggression he has always had for her. Dem layers lol

Devola and Popola. They strike me as out of place, and after playing through this I've been putting a lot of thought into how events take place within the game, since nothing is truly out of place in this game. (That being said it makes the details quite a pain because sometimes I'm not sure if something is actually connected or not, hah.)

Oh, them?

I mean, they literally are out of place, considering that they ran away from wherever they were originally. Ultimately, D & P in this game serves as a very fucked up form of fanservice.

 

[Ferr986]

I was more surprised with both twists of Nier 1

Spoiler

(Gestals being humans and Shadowlord being OG Nier you play at first)

, but I guess it's because I played it first.

If you think about it, both are pretty similar, with twists about the main characters and the enemies that surround you. They even put a playable intro that makes the player confused about what happened, but Nier 1 one last almost till the end lol

 

[Renekton]

Still connected to the network, and from what I know the Main Network wanted to get rid of different evolutionary branches before flying out to space or whatever. Also to collect back resources from the resource towers?

I thought they disconnected long ago 😵

 

[Antiwhippy]

I thought they disconnected long ago 😵

I think they think they did? I'm honestly kinda fuzzy about it. We do know that the machine network very deliberately branched off to observe what would happen and also to deliberately weaken themselves so they wouldn't win till the point of losing their purpose of "defeat the enemy", so they probably still had tendrils in there. I don't think Pascal et al are as separated as they thought they were.

 

[matrix-cat]

I don't think the 2E twist is especially well done. It relies entirely on the game telling you that 2B executed 9S over and over, but you don't see any of it. It happens twice on-'camera', and both times 9S just immediately wakes up in a new body with all his memories intact, so when the game tells you she's been killing him over and over specifically so he wouldn't find out the things he wasn't supposed to, well, it doesn't really ring true. It certainly fell flat for me the first time I saw it.

I haven't yet gone back to replay the game knowing 2B's true identity. I will one day, but I think one of the game's main flaws is that, by the time you find out that 2B was 2E, you've already played Route A basically twice, and I know I at least was a bit sick of it. I feel the original Nier used its multiple 'playthrough' setup much more cleverly, by actually giving you the information that recontextualizes the game's events and then having you replay it, while Automata makes you play Route A twice with only minor differences, then dumps the big twist after Route C.

 

[BocoDragon]

I didn't hate the game, if anything, it's certainly a way to draw you into the game, but it's definitely the kind of thing that lends itself to being mocked by people. That is, until you beat the game of course.

I think it's only considered edgy/contrarian/mockable here because we're awashed in monotheistic beliefs in most non-Japanese countries, so it comes across as "tryhard rebellion", like an edgelord atheist kid rebelling against their culture.

But it's not all that "tryhard" from a country where most people are non-religious. I think in that context its not a rebellion (against culture). It's an honest fantasy exploration of people rejecting their falsely divined fate and taking it into their own hands (against gods, not against culture).

Yeah, I kinda doubt that any European or North American production would go so damn far with the religious themeing and the huge "God is Dead" that basically appears everywhere in the game

"Become as Gods" sure as hell wouldn't be a thing.

We couldn't explore those themes so casually, no.

Well, they would, but it would never be Christianity that gets the hit.

True... or monotheism in general. I suppose we have no problem mocking the kind of petty gods who live on Mt. Olympus.

 

[LotusHD]

I don't think the 2E twist is especially well done. It relies entirely on the game telling you that 2B executed 9S over and over, but you don't see any of it. It happens twice on-'camera', and both times 9S just immediately wakes up in a new body with all his memories intact, so when the game tells you she's been killing him over and over specifically so he wouldn't find out the things he wasn't supposed to, well, it doesn't really ring true. It certainly fell flat for me the first time I saw it.

But there's hints all over the game, both in the main story and some of the sidequests, including the times when 9S dies.

Like with their "first" mission together is another example. Ever since the demo, people thought it was so strange that 2B quickly went from being cold towards 9S to treating him as if he was this lifelong companion. She acted that way because it's not the first time they've met. He lost his memories that day, and as we all know now, it's basically the same as him dying, something she's used to by now. Hence why after they both say "Glory to Mankind" back on the bunker, we see her ball up her fist. We know how she truly feels about this whole situation, she's at a point where even if she isn't directly responsible, him dying still pisses her off. She would very much like for it to not happen.

You don't really ever need to see her in "2E mode", by the time you get to the Route C reveal, you can look back and see all the little hints and such for yourself, rather than it being spelled out for you.

 

[IrishNinja]

so i beat all the endings in Nier, almost on 2 formats

but i'm playing this one now & it looks and sounds great but its asscheeks in terms of tellng me where exactly to go next, i finally rebotted to get the the last piece i was missing for the resistance camp quest or whatever so hopefully it picks up after this but i swear to god if this wasn't already an exciting series for me (Nier was one of last gen's finest, fuck drakengard) i'dve bailed already

 

[microtransaction]

Still connected to the network, and from what I know the Main Network wanted to get rid of different evolutionary branches before flying out to space or whatever. Also to collect back resources from the resource towers?

I'm still trying to process everything after I completed the game a week ago, however, weren't Pascal and his machines hooked off the network since before the game?

 

[Mailbox]

I don't think the 2E twist is especially well done. It relies entirely on the game telling you that 2B executed 9S over and over, but you don't see any of it. It happens twice on-'camera', and both times 9S just immediately wakes up in a new body with all his memories intact, so when the game tells you she's been killing him over and over specifically so he wouldn't find out the things he wasn't supposed to, well, it doesn't really ring true. It certainly fell flat for me the first time I saw it.

I haven't yet gone back to replay the game knowing 2B's true identity. I will one day, but I think one of the game's main flaws is that, by the time you find out that 2B was 2E, you've already played Route A basically twice, and I know I at least was a bit sick of it. I feel the original Nier used its multiple 'playthrough' setup much more cleverly, by actually giving you the information that recontextualizes the game's events and then having you replay it, while Automata makes you play Route A twice with only minor differences, then dumps the big twist after Route C.

I don't really share your critiques at all, sorry.
wrt the 9S stuff, only once did 9S retain memories, and it wasn't expected by anyone. Its used in contrast with the opening of the game. I think the 2E twist was actually really good, because a lot of the game actually hints to that (many of the side quests have aspects of this).

As for the multiple playthroughs, its definitely a ymmv situation. Imo, Nier and Automata were going for VERY different things in this regard.
Nier was giving you new contexts in order to make you think more critically about the actions you have taken and why you have taken them (or why the "enemies" have taken them).
Automata tries more to forcefully replicate the "watching it a second time makes you notice more details" thing. The second playthrough basically shoves the specific "division of humanity" theme and tells you "here, this is the context, you've seen this twice, think about it". Imo, i thought it was a genius way of handling the issue. They are both "reinforce and reflect" but for different reasons and in different ways. Imo, seeing 9S' perspective and realizing why characters acted the way they did was more than enough to justify it for me.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Maybe it's silly but the A2 switcheroo got me

I always thought in the trailer it was 2B looking a bit ragged (and taking revenge on the command base etc.) but then 2B was killed and A2 cut her hair short I was like 'ohhhhhhhh'

I expect most people knew that was coming but I had no idea it was about to happen

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm still trying to process everything after I completed the game a week ago, however, weren't Pascal and his machines hooked off the network since before the game?

That's what they say, but then we found out that the machine network deliberately branched off and is always observing, so how much were they separated really.

 

[duckroll]

I don't agree because I don't think Nier Automata has plot twists. I don't think any of the revelations are intended to be shocking or surprising, especially not by the time the context is revealed. They're not twists because the way I experienced them, they were things I expected or suspected all along based on the overwhelming evidence presented in the world and the side quests, but it was depressing to think about. The revelations just make most players face the reality they suspect but deny all along, because it is easier. I think that is the intention of the game. To reflect that there are inconvenient truths in the world all the time, and it is easy to pretend things are okay and that if no one else is doing anything about it, we don't have to either. Until we no longer have a choice. It's selling it short to say that Nier has plot twists.

 

[Aizo]

Great thread, OP. I couldn't stop thinking about everything after I completed the game for the next couple weeks. I can't remember the last time a piece of fiction affected me so greatly outside of my childhood. What an amazing game.

It's selling it short to say that Nier has plot twists.

But I think the elaboration that the OP gives gives enough context to understand how much deeper it goes than a simple twist.

 

[Eumi]

It also has one of the worst executed plot twists ever since they stick text in the wrong note revealing that Yorha units have a planned obsolescence early.