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[gundamkyoukai]

Yes, it's obviously insane. I just wanted to clarify what that meant.


To be clear, this is not true, regardless of what a regional manager stated.

$80 million isn't insanely out there for a game, but it's still on the more expensive side, especially when you consider that it's also only $80 million because of rather unfavorable currency conversions right now.

That's still not a reason to treat your employees like this. If you're unhappy, you either just have a re-org or shut down the studio and provide outplacement assistance like a normal company.

80 million is insane if it is just dev budget .
When you add in marketing (i expect Konami trying not to spend to much) we are looking at over 100 million easy .
For a MGS game that is way to much .

 

[Glendemonium]

Wow, and I thought the working conditions for Activision and EA were bad, Konami is straight up draconian.

 

[ViciousDS]

That $80 million figure also includes the creation of a brand new engine iirc, that they were going to use for the new Silent Hill etc.

Also, MGSV looks to be a pretty huge game and looks excellent with that trademark KojiPro attention to detail.

its easily justified if it included the engine development. The Fox engine from everything recent looks and runs fantastic. Can't wait for the new PES and MGSV


I suck at stealth games, but I'll be damned if I don't by MGSV just for Kojimas sake

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I take that to mean he's escorted by security to his office when the day starts and is expected to stay there until he leaves.

They're basically viewing him as a fired employee who could end up tampering with things, but still employing him.

But a guy on his position needs to have meetings with his staff, check things, play dev versions,... how can do his work when he stays on his office all day? Do they have the security guards accompany him to every meeting? Actually, how can even direct his own game in that situation? This just dosn't even look crazy, it basically tampering the whole development of the game...

 

[faridmon]

80 millions for a Metal Gear game is a bargain considering Destiny costed 500 millions...

The article states 80 Million over the budget

Destiny was set to have such budget, expectation and the sales of those two games differ!

 

[R-User!]

I take that to mean he's escorted by security to his office when the day starts and is expected to stay there until he leaves.

They're basically viewing him as a fired employee who could end up tampering with things, but still employing him.

Sounds insane.

What a nightmare environment to work in and try to be creative and positive.

I hope Kojima and his staff don't have any severe "phantom pain" associated with this experience, and can go on to make something else as great as the MGS series!

 

[danm999]

I take that to mean he's escorted by security to his office when the day starts and is expected to stay there until he leaves.

They're basically viewing him as a fired employee who could end up tampering with things, but still employing him.

I'm now having images of him being escorted to and from restroom stalls by security to take poops during the day.

"Kept you waiting, huh?"

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Gamers took to the Internet after hearing that the creator of the "Metal Gear" franchise, Kojima, had been sidelined at Konami. At the time, "Metal Gear Solid V" was six months from release. Alarmed by the online reaction, Konami said, "We will work on the development of new games in the franchise." Gamers, though, love Kojima. Without him, they may lose their loyalty. "It's because of him that the series is so solid," was a sentiment heard again and again

 

[Nirolak]

I can't wait for A) Kojima's tell-all about his treatment, and B) his eventual Kickstarter campaign.

Honestly, I feel at this point that a behind-the-scene expose about Phantom Pain would be even more interesting than one about Destiny. It's so weird to think that this project went from its totally bizarre announcement to its heavy-handed corporate controlled final days.

Destiny strikes me as a pretty normal mess.

They started a game with a ton of staff without a clear vision of what they wanted to do, had a planned scope vastly larger than their capabilities, and then were told they had to get the game out within a year of their originally agreed ship date. They followed up by massively cutting content and just trying to ship whatever they had that was polished, reverting to pretty basic game designs to fill in whatever was missing yet felt critical to calling the game a complete product.

If we look at BioShock Infinite, it's a pretty similar story, which is why every time we saw the product, it became more and more like the first game, and the scope was progressively more limited/lacking in the more ambitious features they promised.

But a guy on his position needs to have meetings with his staff, check things, play dev versions,... how can do his work when he stays on his office all day? Do they have the security guards accompany him to every meeting? Actually, how can even direct his own game in that situation? This just dosn't even look crazy, it basically tampering the whole development of the game...

It's obviously an incredibly suboptimal situation. I imagine it's a mix of him just doing what he can and relying on the capabilities of the staff to know what they have to do to finish the product given it was already very far in development by the time this started.

80 million is insane if it is just dev budget .
When you add in marketing (i expect Konami trying not to spend to much) we are looking at over 100 million easy .
For a MGS game that is way to much .

It's about on par with a high end Assassin's Creed. It's obviously too much for what they're doing and the realistic sales expectations based on that, but it's the type of budget that exists. In a normal company you'd amortize that by shipping a sequel in three years that cost half as much and continually getting the benefit of what you built.

I can easily see a publisher being unhappy with the cost, but most either suck it up and make more profitable games afterward using this foundation, or they just shut down the studio in a respectful fashion.

 

[bud]

The article states 80 Million over the budget

Destiny was set to have such budget, expectation and the sales of those two games differ!

no, it doesn't.

it just says that it "racked up" more than 80m in dev costs.

 

[Cardon]

That $80 million figure also includes the creation of a brand new engine iirc, that they were going to use for the new Silent Hill etc.

Also, MGSV looks to be a pretty huge game and looks excellent with that trademark KojiPro attention to detail.

If that's true, which I personally believe is the case, then the $80mil figure isn't that unreasonable in the end. Sure, it's definitely a hit for Konami since they won't be able to utilize FOX Engine much given their new focus, but spending $80 mil to do R&D on a graphics engine and subsequent title development is pretty reasonable in the end.

 

[Walpurgis]

So this all started in March/April. That's when their fiscal year ended, right? I wonder what what happened. I doubt this was their first year with mobile was making more than consoles.

 

[pizzacat]

for 80+ Million Bucks

Fans are what drove him to the states he is in.

That's not bad for open world game tho

 

[Golnei]

Here's hoping Shinkawa and the rest of the key members leave with him.

Shinkawa relegated to the pachinko machine assembly line is a truly depressing thought. Though he's probably almost as safe as Kojima in terms of future work, considering how big a name he is thanks to his visible role in the Metal Gear series - it's the rest of Kojipro who'll find it harder to escape.

 

[SturokBGD]

Wow, I'm not going to be buying MGSV, Konami.

This won't matter at all. If there's no money to be made from MGSV, well... that's vindication for Konami. Buy the game. It's by Hideo Kojima and his team. It's the real deal. It deserves the love of MG fans. What you can skip is the inevitable garbage Konami will put out next.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

I can't wait for A) Kojima's tell-all about his treatment, and B) his eventual Kickstarter campaign.

Honestly, I feel at this point that a behind-the-scene expose about Phantom Pain would be even more interesting than one about Destiny. It's so weird to think that this project went from its totally bizarre announcement to its heavy-handed corporate controlled final days.

I highly doubt we'll ever get a full version from his side of the story. He's probably under contractual agreement not to tell the details of what went down, even after he leaves. I do believe however that he will almost immediately begin work on a brand new original franchise, most likely with Del Toro again. Whether it's a kickstarter or a project under a new console backed studio remains to be seen.

 

[Cornbread78]

This is crazy stuff. Hopefully e moves on to bigger and better things on his own.

 

[Se7enSword]

Is that even legal?

I'd like to say no, and I hope it isn't.

They're being treated like slaves. I hope once this is over, they can all find much better and comfortable positions elsewhere.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[akidnamededdy]

I wasn't really worried about how Phantom Pain would ultimately turn out until I read this article. Being cut off from the Internet and limited interaction with the director...doesn't sound good.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Konami to intentionally fuck up Phantom Pain so that their eventual shitty Kojima-less Metal Gear games don't look as bad as they would. Just to spit in Kojima's eye.

 

[Haunted]

Konami, a leading Japanese video game producer

 

[brandonh83]

Best Konami.

 

[L Thammy]

Konami is like the cheesy '80s cyberpunk megacorp in real life. Kojima may be throwing money away, but even if they couldn't get rid of him, they should have moved him somewhere else and cut him off. It almost seems like they're deliberately trying to be cartoonishly evil. The things they're doing are just pointlessly cruel. They don't even seem to be trying to improve productivity.

 

[OléGunner]

I take that to mean he's escorted by security to his office when the day starts and is expected to stay there until he leaves.

They're basically viewing him as a fired employee who could end up tampering with things, but still employing him.

Jesus Christ! This is mental.

Kojima must have been depressed all through making MGS V.

Obligatory #FucKonami as always

 

[Theanine3D]

I can't believe what I'm reading. No one deserves to work under these conditions. Kojima is better off elsewhere where he won't be treated like a criminal. I mean, seriously. To think this kind of stuff was going on all along? Kojima leaving Konami will be the best thing to happen to him.

 

[crazyrabbits]

The rest is pretty much exactly as translated previous. Staff leaving in droves amid a culture of fear and punishment.

Good. Taking away their capital (brainpower) will starve them out. I want to see them die a slow death over the next few years, then come running back to beg for forgiveness after the pachinko industry softens.

 

[Kysen]

Isn't it harder to make a game without the internet? I couldn't imagine programming without being able to look things up.

This so much, not to mention documentation being online. Unreal working conditions.

 

[Max_Po]

For people going wtf...is this legal ... or shaking their heads...

This is real life. Big corporations do not fuck around... nit to mention Konami' s 80 million investment.

4 of my colleagues were laid off from IT positions in 2013.. The jobs weren't even high pay from 52 to 80k and they were escoreted out by 3 security guards. Wernt allowed to touch anything related to Company or come back to their desk to take their belongings

 

[Haunted]

A game company has only two assets: game titles and workers. Customers are attracted to good games and talented developers. Konami might be losing fans as it is not treating these assets well.

Well, in this new social gaming world, they probably really don't need any of that.

Quality game titles and talented developers are not needed when mobile gachapon shit sells regardless of either.

 

[Golnei]

Konami is like the cheesy '80s cyberpunk megacorp in real life. Kojima may be throwing money away, but even if they couldn't get rid of him, they should have moved him somewhere else and cut him off. It almost seems like they're deliberately trying to be cartoonishly evil. The things they're doing are just pointlessly cruel. They don't even seem to be trying to improve productivity.

I don't think anyone could have expected Metal Gear's torture sequences to have been autobiographical. Kojima's probably hidden a lockpick jigsaw puzzle in his chest cavity to sneak out for lunch.

Good. Taking away their capital (brainpower) will starve them out. I want to see them die a slow death over the next few years, then come running back to beg for forgiveness after the pachinko industry softens.

They still have their health clubs and mobile franchises, and even if pachislot itself loses popularity due to more lenient gambling laws, they already have the infrastructure to move into traditional slot machines domestically.

 

[Revven]

How many months will Kojima have been "incarcerated"? This shit all kicked off in March didnt it?

7 months. Jesus christ. Wonder what he'd be losing if he just walked. Theres "staying for the staff and the game" or are they trying to stiff him on like... millions? I can't imagine being under "work arrest" for over half a year. What a waste of a talent.

Japan, you got some serious work law problems.

And he's still contracted until December. He's not completely free until the new year in 2016.

 

[SomTervo]

$80 million isn't insanely out there for a game, but it's still on the more expensive side, especially when you consider that it's also only $80 million because of rather unfavorable currency conversions right now.

That's still not a reason to treat your employees like this. If you're unhappy, you either just have a re-org or shut down the studio and provide outplacement assistance like a normal company.

80 million is very expensive, top-tier game development. And Destiny didn't cost 500 million to develop. That was their franchise plan for 10+ years or something.

I wasn't really worried about how Phantom Pain would ultimately turn out until I read this article. Being cut off from the Internet and limited interaction with the director...doesn't sound good.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Konami to intentionally fuck up Phantom Pain so that their eventual shitty Kojima-less Metal Gear games don't look as bad as they would. Just to spit in Kojima's eye.

Bear in mind conditions weren't always like this. The longest they've been like this were probably, what... A year?

All the super-important work on a game takes place in the first year or so, when the design is fleshed out, art and assets are built, and an alpha is worked on. At a certain stage, it just becomes about polish. I'd be quite certain KojiPro have been doing little more than polishing for the last two years.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Here's a possible depressing reality - Kojima leaves Konami at the end of the year as scheduled, founds his own independent studio only to license the Metal Gear name off Konami who seem more interested in other people doing the hardwork with their IP while they get a cut of the profits for doing jack squat instead of using their own money to internally develop and publish games themselves.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

For people going wtf...is this legal ... or shaking their heads...

This is real life. Big corporations do not fuck around... nit to mention Konami' s 80 million investment.

4 of my colleagues were laid off from IT positions in 2013.. The jobs weren't even high pay from 52 to 80k and they were escoreted out by 3 security guards. Wernt allowed to touch anything related to Company or come back to their desk to take their belongings

That's pretty standard. Being held prisoner in your office on the other hand isn't.

 

[Imbarkus]

Big companies don't pivot like speedboats. They are cruise liners. If you jerk the wheel you just shake everybody up and lose all your momentum and the boat still takes forever to change direction.

I don't truly blame Konami's CEO for taking the company in another direction. That is his job. I blame him for seeming to be so amateur as not to know this basic fact of business. None of this bad PR was necessary.

 

[BadWolf]

After he leaves I think he will set up his own studio so people can't fuck with him again like this.

Then he will partner with a bigger company (Sony etc.) to make games, kind of like what Platinum Games does.

 

[HammerOfThor]

I feel like Konami's CFO or CEO should be the ones getting shit, not Kojima.

No one forced the people above Kojima to continue to okay his spending and it was their responsibility to either stop it or cut it down, which they didn't.

 

[Aces&Eights]

Why would they incarcerate him to his office? It's not like he can't just meet with his team after work to discuss a mass exodus once this is all over. He's a professional so I cannot see him wanting to sabotage the game or "steal" any secrets seeing as he is the one who made the fucking game.

 

[kmax]

From the article

We are living in a social game age," Kagemasa Kozuki, 74, founder and chairman of holding company Konami, said around this time. "Make more efforts to create social games."

Yes, and treat the traditional gaming space like shit.

Do everyone a favor and sell your IP's.

 

[Wanderer5]

So many memories from Konami, it depressing. This is just absolute crap.

 

[Haunted]

Here's a possible depressing reality - Kojima leaves Konami at the end of the year as scheduled, founds his own independent studio only to license the Metal Gear name off Konami who seem more interested in other people doing the hardwork with their IP while they get a cut of the profits for doing jack squat instead of using their own money to internally develop and publish games themselves.

No way in hell.

 

[Garlador]

So, meanwhile, at Konami...

Whatever Kojima's plans are, I expect a massive exodus of their remaining talent along with him.

 

[L Thammy]

That's pretty standard. Being held prisoner in your office on the other hand isn't.

Layoffs would be way better than what's being described here. In terms of solving the problems Konami is facing, in terms of creating productive employees who don't want to leave the company, and in terms of not horrifying everyone who reads about the situation.

 

[faridmon]

no, it doesn't.

it just says that it "racked up" more than 80m in dev costs.

oh my bad.

But my point still stands, 80+ million is still alot of money if the company haven't set that budget allocated.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The release of the newest version of the game, "Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain," however, has been delayed numerous times and racked up more than 10 billion yen ($80.4 million) in development costs.

Okay, so it is pre-marketing.

That is an absurd amount of money.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

I take that to mean he's escorted by security to his office when the day starts and is expected to stay there until he leaves.

They're basically viewing him as a fired employee who could end up tampering with things, but still employing him.

that is some sad shit right there, only reason why im buying this game is Koji-sama & Co.

 

[Spirited]

Here's a possible depressing reality - Kojima leaves Konami at the end of the year as scheduled, founds his own independent studio only to license the Metal Gear name off Konami who seem more interested in other people doing the hardwork with their IP while they get a cut of the profits for doing jack squat instead of using their own money to internally develop and publish games themselves.

That would be pretty sad, hoping for his best maybe he'll make a kickstarter or something.

 

[Crossing Eden]

After he leaves I think he will set up his own studio so people can't fuck with him again like this.

Then he will partner with a bigger company (Sony etc.) to make games, kind of like what Platinum Games does.

That's certainly optimistic but I don't think any of the big three would be willing to let him have as much freedom to delay the project multiple times and go overbudget.

 

[Nirolak]

80 million is very expensive, top-tier game development. And Destiny didn't cost 500 million to develop. That was their franchise plan for 10+ years or something.

Yes, if you follow my other posts, I both state that it's most like $90 million or so at a more normal conversion rate and that's much more in line with very top of the line AAA games like Assassin's Creed, which is obviously well beyond what you'd expect a game with Metal Gear's sales expectations to cost. This is also around what a trainwreck like BioShock Infinite ends up costing, where it's very unclear where the money went unless you know the full development history of the product.

That said, I wanted to draw the distinction between doing that and breaking a record for largest budget for a game ever. SWTOR is around double that, for example.

I also repeatedly stated that I wouldn't be surprised at a publisher being upset about this to the point they wanted to shut down a studio, but criticized their way of going about it.

 

[BadWolf]

That's certainly optimistic but I don't think any of the big three would be willing to let him have as much freedom to delay the project multiple times and go overbudget.

I don't expect he even wants to work on something on the scale of MGSV again any time soon.

Besides, in the last 5 years they basically made the biggest game they have ever worked on by a large margin, created a new engine and even a substantial online component. That is nothing minor.

Didn't RaD make The Order 1886 in 5 years lol?