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Ninja Gaiden 3 Details from TGS

SapientWolf said:
Just the opposite, really. You have to suspend your disbelief for the adamantium limbs that can resist cuts from a sword that slices through metal like butter.
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Well, I guess that's the goofy thing about NG is that your sword can destroy anything in a single slice but it takes several dozen cuts to kill a single ninja.

teamaxe said:
I can give you a breakdown of the dismemberment system in NG2 if you'd like. It is the opposite of what you're describing.
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Right, guess I should have clarified that I was speaking in general about limb-severing, not necessarily about Ninja Gaiden (I haven't played through much of NG2, but I've seen what you're talking about and agree that it is there part of the strategic balance.) Dismemberment can be done well, I'm just saying that if Team Ninja is going in a different direction it doesn't necessarily break the game or destroy the 'realism', the play balance can be done well without that element; I don't even think it's irony that the game is about "cutting someone down" without flying limbs (though I'm not really seeing what their point is in the trailers, the action doesn't seem any more realistic/deliberate than before other than all the QTEs.)
 
CamHostage said:
Well, I guess that's the goofy thing about NG is that your sword can destroy anything in a single slice but it takes several dozen cuts to kill a single ninja.
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Ryu is made out of material stronger than the average enemy.
 
CamHostage said:
I'm just saying that if Team Ninja is going in a different direction it doesn't necessarily break the game or destroy the 'realism', the play balance can be done well without that element;
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I don't necessarily care about the visuals of flying limbs. But, it was a mechanic that was implemented extremely well, IMO, and now it is gone. Additionally, I see nothing compelling that has taken its place. That's the reason that I'm down on the game, primarily.
 
If the new Hero mode is the only part where things are 'easy' I'll be happy. Give everyone a zero point achievement for beating the game on that mode just for fun, too. If all they really care about is story then they won't give a shit about achievements, either. Team Ninja "0" achievements are some of the most awesome surprises to come out of Microsoft's program for exacerbating victims of OCD.
 
Trailer analysis.

1. Combat - Removal of onscreen button prompts is a big plus. This looks as fluid as NG2. It looks like the OT's are still there, but the limbs and heads don't come flying off. There are recycled OT animations in this demo. The player was an above average NG player, and the enemies were a bit more difficult. All the typical NG stuff is still present (OL charge, shuriken interrupts, Izuna, etc.).
2. Environment Interaction - It looks like the Kunai Climb is used in concert with Bird Flip. Like if you don't have the option to Bird Flip (no adjacent wall), this is another option. The player was able to do it about twice as quickly as the original demo, so that's a plus. It's still silly, though.
3. Unarmed, surrendering troop executions - I don't see the point in this at all. If I'm not given a choice to spare these people, I don't even know if I'll be playing this game. I had a strong reaction to the execution both in the up-close one and the multiple soldier surrender scene. If they're going for something moral or philosophical with this, I'm missing it. It's just distasteful. In NG 1 and 2, the people never stopped trying to kill you and disabled enemies were actually more dangerous than regular enemies.

In this demo, they throw up their hands, lay down their weapons, and then you just cut them down. If there's a way to skip this, I'll be okay with it.

4. Ninpo - It looks like they spent a little time with the Ninpo animation. Not bad.

Overall, it's gone from a definite pass to further review needed.
 
3. Unarmed, surrendering troop executions - I don't see the point in this at all. If I'm not given a choice to spare these people, I don't even know if I'll be playing this game. I had a strong reaction to the execution both in the up-close one and the multiple soldier surrender scene. If they're going for something moral or philosophical with this, I'm missing it. It's just distasteful. In NG 1 and 2, the people never stopped trying to kill you and disabled enemies were actually more dangerous than regular enemies.
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It now seems like the players decision to execute surrendering troops is a key gameplay mechanic.
 
Ninja Dom said:
It now seems like the players decision to execute surrendering troops is a key gameplay mechanic.
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Hmm... We'll see. They don't show you what's next with the multiple troop surrender scene.

With the first execution, the guy is standing in front of where you have to go next to advance. If they give you the option of just sliding around him or something under the truck, that would be cool, I guess.

More stuff.

Ninpo Charging - Killing fills your Ninpo Gauge. When if fills up, you can do your Ninpo it seems. I wonder if there's multiple levels, but when he pulls off the Dragon Ninpo, it's completely empty after being completely full. I hope that there's still multiple Ninpos, but I didn't see a Ninpo designation.

Essence Removal - Again, removing a core mechanic and unique aspect of the gameplay engine with no substitution is troubling. It seems like you don't have your arm charged up to pull off a UT, but I can't really discern what the trigger or stages are for it (if any).

OT's - It definitely looks like Obliteration Techniques are still there, but they don't feature limb removal. If an enemy is stumbling around, it looks like you get one of the canned OT animations depending on their state. However, they don't look to be as specialized as they were in NG2. There were OT's specifically for an enemy that has been decapitated, but hasn't fallen down yet. Here, one of the soldiers is bent down, cowering with his head covered, and when Ryu executes him, it just jumps to the cut-horizontally-through-abdomen animation.

Visual cue - Not to harp on the limb stuff, but they were such a good idea. You had an instantly recognizable cue as to the enemy's health, disposition and capabilities with the old system. How do you know now, if soldiers are suicidal, or you can even do an OT?

Gore - I was ambivalent to the gore and the differences between NG2's blood and NG2S's purple mist were not that important to me. You still had the visual cues of head crushing at the end of Izuna Drop, and the person's arms or legs missing. Here, that impact is lost completely.

Mid UT-possibilities - It appears for this type of UT, the camera zooms WAY WAY in for the killing blow. This is different than the past games, as you could direct your UT's to the enemies you needed to focus on. So, if a UT delimbed a Spider Clan early in the animation, you could redirect the rest of the UT to go after another guy with full health, knowing that you could come back to that first guy with an OT. Given the focus on the kill here, I wonder if that's even possible. Can you direct where which enemies you can warp to?
 
Even though I'm usually the first to point out how useless Hayashi is I think people are being a little harsh about the removal of dismemberment (and by extension OTs). It was added to number 2 in order to make it radically different than Black. If it's removed in 3 to make it radically different from 2 then that's fair enough. My issue is that it's replacement is shitty QTEs which to my knowledge remain QTEs throughout the game just without the button prompt flashing on screen.
 
Looks like Hayashi is going for some moral middle ground I guess. And I think that's his goal but as long as that doesn't get in the middle of me kicking ass then who cares.
 
This ninja multiplayer is the first Team Ninja thing ever that actually sounds compelling to me.
 
I don't know how many times we've gone over the QTE thing. The button prompt isn't the problem people have with the mechanic.
 
jett said:
THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE
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It makes perfect sense. It seems they're pushing for a teen rating this time, and it'll be easier to maintain 60 frames per second without having limbs and shit flying around the screen.

I agree, though. These shit excuses are pretty shit. They should just come out and say it.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
i dunno in how many interviews since the announcement of this game the developers explicitly say that the button prompts were tutorials...

but hey let me act pleasantly surprised too so i can fit in. OMGZ NO QTEZ.

Anyways, Looking great
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LOLOLOL
People have been trying to defend this since the first reveal. Saying that the button prompts are only tutorials. It's a bunch of crap. Yes the button prompts disappear, but that's it. You still get that dumb slow down and have to press X (or whatever button) to continue. It's just invisible now.
The problem isn't QTEs appearing on screen, it the problem is the system to begin with.

AND GOD that ultimate technique is SO BORING. It's basically just the same animation as the QTE just three times in a row. Boring. I hate Hayashi and everything he does.
 
Robot Pants said:
LOLOLOL
People have been trying to defend this since the first reveal. Saying that the button prompts are only tutorials. It's a bunch of crap. Yes the button prompts disappear, but that's it. You still get that dumb slow down and have to press X (or whatever button) to continue. It's just invisible now.
The problem isn't QTEs appearing on screen, it the problem is the system to begin with.

AND GOD that ultimate technique is SO BORING. It's basically just the same animation as the QTE just three times in a row. Boring. I hate Hayashi and everything he does.
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The so-called QTEs have never looked that different from obliteration techniques. They interrupt the flow of combat to roughly the same degree. If the button prompt doesn't show on screen and stop the action, and if these finishers are optional (do we know yet if they're optional?), then it's not going to feel all that different from NG2.
 
Robot Pants said:
Boring. I hate Hayashi and everything he does.
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i_hate_everything_cat.jpg


So it would seem.
 
Bloodrage said:
It makes perfect sense. It seems they're pushing for a teen rating this time, and it'll be easier to maintain 60 frames per second without having limbs and shit flying around the screen.

I agree, though. These shit excuses are pretty shit. They should just come out and say it.
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Did you watch the video posted above?

Having enemies beg for their life, and then letting Ryu cut them down like, that is far more... "questionable" than faceless ninjas and mosters losing their limbs.

I doubt that they care what age rating the game gets; if they did, then the purple mist from Sigma 2 would be in there.

Anyways, the game looks great. I loved the London setting. Seeing the Eye in the distance was really cool, although the bad Eastenders impressions are going to grate quickly.

I hope that they stick with the cities and humans for most of the game. The fiends and underworld levels in the first two were rubbish compared to the early levels.

Multiplayer could be fun too, I hope they show some gameplay from it this week.
 
hey_it's_that_dog said:
The so-called QTEs have never looked that different from obliteration techniques. They interrupt the flow of combat to roughly the same degree. If the button prompt doesn't show on screen and stop the action, and if these finishers are optional (do we know yet if they're optional?), then it's not going to feel all that different from NG2.
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OTs were activated not random which made them a hell of a lot different. It allowed you to make use of their invulnerability frames, with the counterbalance of wounded enemies presenting more risk with the damage their kamikaze attacks. Also they didn't interrupted the flow at all, there was no gaudy zoom with slow motion, the animation length was no different from an Izuna.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
OTs were activated not random which made them a hell of a lot different. It allowed you to make use of their invulnerability frames, with the counterbalance of wounded enemies presenting more risk with the damage their kamikaze attacks. Also they didn't interrupted the flow at all, there was no gaudy zoom with slow motion, the animation length was no different from an Izuna.
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I just watched the video before I commented. There is no prolonged slow motion. The camera zooms in, and Ryu does the murdering, and it slows for a very brief time during impact. It takes no longer than an OT.

I haven't read much about the game so I don't know if they are random. Are they? Or are can you choose to do an OT once the enemy has taken enough damage?

Speedymanic said:
Still has that slow-down and zoom in at random shit though. :/
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Go look at footage of NG2 and tell me how different it really is from the zoom in for obliteration techniques.
 
Just watched the gameplay video...

Needless to say, GAF being GAF again. The game looks EXCELLENT!

I fucking LOVE how you can fall and charge through an enemy to initiate a landing,
 
hey_it's_that_dog said:
Or are can you choose to do an OT once the enemy has taken enough damage?
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It's tough to say. If these are the new OT's, then they can't really be called OT's anymore, because they don't necessarily kill. Some enemies survive this zoom-in attack.
 
teamaxe said:
It's tough to say. If these are the new OT's, then they can't really be called OT's anymore, because they don't necessarily kill. Some enemies survive this zoom-in attack.
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i think i saw an enemy survive izuna drop too.

;_;
 
I'm not sure I like the constant zooming in and out in the gameplay video...

The fact that there is no dismemberment is also a huge bummer. It always made the combat feel really visceral.
 
Kyoufu said:
Needless to say, GAF being GAF again. The game looks EXCELLENT!

I fucking LOVE how you can fall and charge through an enemy to initiate a landing,
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I think that fans of the series are looking for this game to push the genre ahead, rather than just treading water. This will most likely be a good game. The whole using-an-enemy-to-soften-your-landing is nothing new, I remember this specific action being in the Heavenly Sword demo. Conversely, there are lot's of things in both NGB and NG2 that have still not been replicated in current games. I don't see anything new or interesting in these demos.

So far, for me, it looks like it will be a below-average Ninja Gaiden game. Watching all of the trailers of the previous games instilled awe in what was shown off. For me, watching this trailer doesn't show me anything I haven't seen in the genre before.
 
I think, even if this game turns out good (which is by no means a guarantee), there will be people who will refuse to admit it because it does not have Itagaki's name attached.
 
My interest is slowly climbing back out of the pit it fell into at e3. It's sounding better every time.

Do away with random non-lethal OTs and we're golden, Hayashi!

edit: also more weapons. forgot about that part. :(
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I think, even if this game turns out good (which is by no means a guarantee), there will be people who will refuse to admit it because it does not have Itagaki's name attached.
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That's their problem, a sad pride problem. If a game is good, it's good. If only it were that simple.
 
Throavium said:
That's their problem, a sad pride problem. If a game is good, it's good. If only it were that simple.
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I don't want to speak for everyone, but that's certainly not the case for me. To illustrate the point, look at this gameplay demo for NG2, and contrast this to the current video for NG3.

- Enemies that can actually kill you. Jesus look at those freaking demon things at the end.
- WEAPONS - OMFG! Look at that Scythe!!! Wolverine Claws?!?!? YES.
- Dynamic delimbing - Look at all these body parts! Did that guy just suicide bomb Ryu after having his legs cut off?! OMFG, he decapped that huge demon in one hit with that fancy kick. Oh, he did it again!!! That wasn't an accident!
- Awesome ninpo - Windblades thrown up for the first time = bodyparts and blood everywhere. OMFG!

I struggle to find a single good bullet point for NG3.
 
teamaxe said:
I struggle to find a single good bullet point for NG3.
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My point is, if a game is good, a game is good, no matter who made it.

I'm not speaking about Ninja Gaiden 3, I'm speaking in general terms.
 
Oh wow, my gaf account got approved quick..hi everyone!

Anyway down to business. like many have said, it's not the button prompts that were the issue, but rather the slowdown in pace from the compusory OT/SOB attack. I just doesn't flow as well as the traditional on landing, UT, stack essence of previous games.

To be honest, my biggest is the slide. It looks absolutely abysmal as spacing tatic compared to the roll/dash jump.

And the as for the new flying swallow..........*shivers*

I will give hayashi a bone here, I loved the new nippo animation...best thing shown so far.

But the moral consequence stuff is garbage that has no business being in my Ninja gaiden. I will not support this, although it is still familiar enough to rent/buy at a lower price point sometime in the future.
 
As a casual fan of the ninja gaiden series I've liked everything I've seen about this one. I'm not attached to any design or visual philosophies Itagaki put in place. And I for one like a more ninja centric plot instead of the typical evil demons want to rule the world.
 
_dementia said:
It's not being developed by Ninja Theory
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Well at least (by western standards) we would be getting a well told story.

I find it ironic that TN are hyping the areas of their games that they have been in the past notoriously bad at, while underplaying the areas that they excel. At least NT pretend that they know they are crappy at making combat games.
 
I just hope Ninja Gaiden 3 isn't as cheap as Ninja Gaiden 2. Nothing worst than being grabbed after an Izuna Drop and then being grabbed again as soon as the first grab is over. And then of course there's the dudes with the exploding shuriken.
 
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