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Ninja Gaiden Black still the best action game

izunadono said:
Damnit this demo is too fun. I'll probably have to rent the whole NG3RE game.

Right now I'm dying to go back to MGR though =).

DmC's demo seemed alright. The rest of my DMC fan-friends seemed to really dislike for some reason.
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The immediate combat in RE demo is pretty enjoyable, but then you have to put it in context with the rest of the game's level design that consists of large rooms with waves of the same respawning enemies, connected by hallways and QTEs, then punctuated by the worst boss fights known to man. My desire to get the game drops sharply when I think about that T-rex.

edit: also when you realize that the most effective way to play is to wait around for an enemy to attack you with an unblockable to score 3 free OT kills, yeah...
 
Hm, I got 1000/1000 in it but never played the mission mode DLC in NG2. Does anyone know if the mission mode DLC is -on the disc- on the platinum hits version of NG2 (I heard it is included but I don't know if it is a code or something)? Probably pick that up sometime if it is on the disc.
 
MTMBStudios said:
Hm, I got 1000/1000 in it but never played the mission mode DLC in NG2. Does anyone know if the mission mode DLC is -on the disc- on the platinum hits version of NG2 (I heard it is included but I don't know if it is a code or something)? Probably pick that up sometime if it is on the disc.
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Nah it's definitely real DLC. It's really hard though, harder than NGB's Mission Mode. There are two missions specifically that took me a whole month to complete... I think it had a vent that would insta kill you with those magician enemies in a tight space, up to a hundred enemies.

I definitely recommend it. It adds a lot of strategy to NG2 when you consider the time attack mode penalising you for using just OTs and UTs.

luka said:
edit: also when you realize that the most effective way to play is to wait around for an enemy to attack you with an unblockable to score 3 free OT kills, yeah...
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Wait what? The red thing that they do before a grab? How do I do this?
 
Retro_ said:
I agree that the story was a bit sparse, but I always liked how original DMC1 Dante was supposed to be like older middle aged anime protagonists, with Kamiya specifically citing Space Adventure Cobra as one of the main inspirations for the character.
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This reminds me of just how uncanny the similarities between Dante and Cobra are. I watched a playthrough of the (bad) Sega CD Cobra game and Dante is practically the exact same character as Cobra. Any DMC1 fan who hasn't already should check it out.
 
Catching up with this thread has been fun.

Dahbomb said:
Oh we are using FG comparisons now:

NGB: VF4:E
NG2: Tekken 5/6
NG3: Tekken 4 (cuz its ass)
DMC3SE: UMVC3 (if it was balanced)
DMC1: Super Turbo (grand daddy of the genre)
DMC4: MVC2
DMC2: Capcom Fighting Jam
Bayonetta: Guilty Gear/BB (minus the execution requirement)
God of War: Mortal Kombat
MGR: SF3 3rd Strike
Godhand: KOFXIII (if it was less honest)
Viewtiful Joe: Smash Bros.
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I understand where you're going with NGB:VF4:E, but I'd take Shenmue for that for obvious reasons.

Great comparsion with GoW:MK

KOF XIII....I'm really curious to the relation to Godhand. Meter management/ability? Reception? I main XIII, and for all the action games out now, I can't think of a good (or better) example. Just curious if you could go deeper into that.

BadWolf said:
Haven't but MGR yet but God hand reigns supreme for me in the genre.
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Go play it. Really interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Korigama said:
Guess I'm missing something, then. I've had PS2 Shinobi since it came out. It's not that great. I'll take MGR over it.

Wouldn't mind hearing more about why Shinobi is better, though. I like going back to older games from time to time.
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Big lover of Shinobi/Kunochi, and even the 3DS Shinobi is pretty awesome. My love for Shinobi and MGR are more or less equal, as I love what they are and what they do to be different from others.

tournanext said:
Most of DMC and NG series, Bayonetta, and MGR all seem great to me. I wouldn't call any of them bad games, although they have their pros and cons.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
izunadono said:
Damnit this demo is too fun. I'll probably have to rent the whole NG3RE game.

Right now I'm dying to go back to MGR though =).

DmC's demo seemed alright. The rest of my DMC fan-friends seemed to really dislike for some reason.
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DmC is good, though after going through about half of SoS I wasn't feeling it anymore.
 
izunadono said:
Damnit this demo is too fun. I'll probably have to rent the whole NG3RE game.

Right now I'm dying to go back to MGR though =).

DmC's demo seemed alright. The rest of my DMC fan-friends seemed to really dislike for some reason.
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DmC was mediocre/okay I thought. I doubt you'll be seeing it on most peoples "Best Action Games" list. In general I thought it was a pretty big step backwards for the franchise though. Give it a rental or something and make your own judgement on it, I say.
 
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
This reminds me of just how uncanny the similarities between Dante and Cobra are. I watched a playthrough of the (bad) Sega CD Cobra game and Dante is practically the exact same character as Cobra. Any DMC1 fan who hasn't already should check it out.
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Or watch the awesome Cobra series + movie directed by OSAMU DEZAKI
 
Just an update, MGR on V.Hard is really good now. Having to parry a soldier 4 times in a row to OHKO him is very satisfying. Glad I was wrong, wish I had known about the Konami code working in this game from the very start.

EDIT: Just pretty completed the whole level one up until the dog boss without getting hit/parrying everything. That was really cool.
 
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
This reminds me of just how uncanny the similarities between Dante and Cobra are. I watched a playthrough of the (bad) Sega CD Cobra game and Dante is practically the exact same character as Cobra. Any DMC1 fan who hasn't already should check it out.
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Dante originally didn't his trademark jacket for the longest time was in development, so the red jumpsuit look made the Cobra influence even more obvious

devilmc1-dantevest.jpg
 
Gen X said:
It puts a smile on my face to see there is still some Tobal 2 love out there after 14+ years. My favorite Square game. Just a shame I can´t read Japanese for the rpg mode.
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come to my tobal 2 side tourney at evo this year!!!

its my favorite fighter tied with GGAC+.

and I'm not sure how thorough the english tobal 2 patch is, but its been out for a while now. check it out!
 
Ninja Gaiden Black has always shat all over the DMC series from a great distance. The combos, the spacial awareness, the challenging AI - all second to none. God of War isn't even worth mentioning in the same sentence, while the only game to come anywhere close is Bayonetta (which could be annoying to learn because it was sooo timing based).
 
thesolidshark said:
KOF XIII....I'm really curious to the relation to Godhand. Meter management/ability? Reception? I main XIII, and for all the action games out now, I can't think of a good (or better) example. Just curious if you could go deeper into that.
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KOF and Godhand are more grounded and "honest" games than their counterparts. There isn't a lot of cheap stuff you can do in the game (like you can't juggle an enemy forever like you can in a DMC game) so you have to rely on fundamentals and yomi a lot more. Meter management is big on both games, you save up your meter to go for that big combo or finish or when you really need it. They are both offensive based, not a lot of blocking in both its about getting in and going ham with your fist and kicks.

I NEED SCISSORS said:
Ninja Gaiden Black has always shat all over the DMC series from a great distance. The combos, the spacial awareness, the challenging AI - all second to none. God of War isn't even worth mentioning in the same sentence, while the only game to come anywhere close is Bayonetta (which could be annoying to learn because it was sooo timing based).
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Pretty sure nothing even comes close to the combos in a DMC game. The combos in NG are a joke compared to DMCs. Although that is balanced by NG having AI that shits on DMC. Spatial awareness is important to all action games, its not unique to just NG nor does it do the best when other games have more mobility options and enemy types to challenge your awareness of space.
 
Dahbomb said:
Pretty sure nothing even comes close to the combos in a DMC game. The combos in NG are a joke compared to DMCs. Although that is balanced by NG having AI that shits on DMC. Spatial awareness is important to all action games, its not unique to just NG nor does it do the best when other games have more mobility options and enemy types to challenge your awareness of space.
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Hold on. NGB and DMC have different AI for a reason, and that reason is DMC4.

NGB is meant to be a game about defence, patience, countering etc. pretty much using frame-data etc. as if it were a fighting game. It's the ultimate test of spatial awareness, particularly because unlike DMC a wrongly timed jump can even cause death.

DMC was meant to be a combo benchmark from the very start. DMC4 had Nero fight enemies that at the very least dodged attacks, and that was okay with the grappling move; however, when playing as Dante in DMC4 it was very, very annoying.

I think the fact that DMC even has a mode like Hell or Hell shows that from a design point of view, the enemies in DMC aren't really meant to be aggressive, you're supposed to keep chaining on them like dummies.

As for NG not having as good combos, I would agree for NG2 because comboing is discouraged, but NGB actually has/would have pretty amazing combos if they enabled you to switch weapons without having to go to the menu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4XxpoAXqU <- there is of course no jump cancelling or whatever
 
If I get NGB from GoD, can I start on Hard difficulty? I ask because I am almost done with NGS+ (on chapter 15) and am already thinking about going through it on a harder difficulty. I don't really want to do it on the Vita though.
 
diffusionx said:
If I get NGB from GoD, can I start on Hard difficulty? I ask because I am almost done with NGS+ (on chapter 15) and am already thinking about going through it on a harder difficulty. I don't really want to do it on the Vita though.
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no, you have to start on normal. But black is harder than sigma, if I remember correctly-
 
SpacLock said:
What's funny is I haven't been able to get back into action games after NGB. It was the action game to end them all.
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You're not the only one. I've had to push myself to really commit and complete anything remotely similar since, unlike the auto-addiction to Itagaki's vision of NG. A fluke due to so much incubation time, perhaps, but still unsurpassed.
 
Fun fact, that NGB combo video posted was made by a DMC vet as a "for the lol" thing. He wanted to make a DMC3 like video using OTF weapon swap. He edited the footage so that it looked like he was swapping weapons in real time. It's neat. Player who made that is Pokey.
 
Lame, my NGB save is corrupt because it's a different Xbox 360. =/

EDIT: Hmm, I kinda forgot just how amazing NGB was, even on Normal. Can't wait until I have the Guillotine throw.

After playing MGR on V.Hard with what feels like an underpowered character, it has a similar overwhelming feeling that NG2 has. Not as deep, but it's similar. And I mean the camera really not helping with rockets flying all over the place.
 
I wish more games could get the black treatment. If NG had never gotten the black treatment it would be remembered as a great game instead of like, one of the greatest. If you have never played NG vanilla and love NGB you should check out NG vanilla, it is some weak shit compared to NGB (especially in the higher difficulties).
 
Finally got around to fully playing the RE demo. You guys know how much I hate this game already, so I guess my impressions may have some bias, but I will try to be as honest as possible.

Overall inpression: it's not bad at all. I really really hate this game and the changes, but as an action game, and even as a NG game, it isn't bad. I will admit that the amount of hate I have for this game and Hayashi in general are a bit excessive. I wouldn't pay full price, and I think the price for it(39.99) is about right.


Pros:
The game is tough. Even on normal. Enemies are very aggressive.
Dismemberment is back obviously.
The retooled SOB may be a bit OP on easier difficulties, but on higher difficulties it's nice to have.
The frame rate is sooo much better than NG3

Cons
The targeting is still fucking stupid. As in tracking and attacking the right enemy.
Input lag.
INPUT LAG
FUCKING INPUT LAG
Seriously. There are times you would try to slide away and ryu stands there and gets grabbed. Ryu feels like a tank.
The frame rate still drops. Much better than vanilla, but still unacceptable at times.


In my opinion, if they could fix the input lag, the target tracking, and keep the frame rate stable, it would be a good enough game to be considered a proper NG game, a bad one you can tolerate. Right now it feels a little mashy due to how unresponsive the controls can be.

If you are a fan of NG, it isn't complete shit. You'll enjoy most of it I think, especially on higher difficulties.


That should tell you a lot. I hate this game as a hardcore fan. But i'll still buy it day 1 I guess. Whatever.
 
Dahbomb said:
Yea I would love expansions to actions games as well. I still felt it was a huge mistake for Capcom to not make a SE for DMC4.
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Wasn't the PC version technically an SE?

ultim8p00 said:
That should tell you a lot. I hate this game as a hardcore fan. But i'll still buy it day 1 I guess. Whatever.
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You know what I hated in the demo the most? Targetting with the damn bow. I'm holding forward to shoot the guy in front and it targets the INVISIBLE ENEMY BEHIND ME. Of course the reason why I was shooting the guy in front was because there was a Master Ninja Mode rocket in between us... so I die because of it.
 
Because of this thread I went out and got NG2 vanilla and someone please tell me this game gets progressively worst, because so far I could see it being my favorite action game of all time. I am blown away, but I am really early in still.

The combat/A.i/little touches and scenery(so far) just hnnnnnnggg
 
FootNinja said:
Because of this thread I went out and got NG2 vanilla and someone please tell me this game gets progressively worst, because so far I could see it being my favorite action game of all time. I am blown away, but I am really early in still.
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Play above Warrior and then come back. If you like it, cool. But the higher difficulties past Warrior/"Normal" are unbalanced as hell and really soured me on the game. It's something I think 2 Sigma fixed: Rebalanced difficulty but it still was a little too "offensive" minded for my taste in comparison to the "defense/punish" mindedness of NG1/Black.
 
TheSeks said:
Play above Warrior and then come back. If you like it, cool. But the higher difficulties past Warrior/"Normal" are unbalanced as hell and really soured me on the game. It's something I think 2 Sigma fixed: Rebalanced difficulty but it still was a little too "offensive" minded for my taste in comparison to the "defense/punish" mindedness of NG1/Black.
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I was told that vanilla ng2 was the way to go, but i'll chime in after finishing the game.
 
TheSeks said:
Play above Warrior and then come back. If you like it, cool. But the higher difficulties past Warrior/"Normal" are unbalanced as hell and really soured me on the game. It's something I think 2 Sigma fixed: Rebalanced difficulty but it still was a little too "offensive" minded for my taste in comparison to the "defense/punish" mindedness of NG1/Black.
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NGS2 is baby mode though, it is actually less balanced than NG2. If your idea of fixing NG2 is "remove everything" then yes NGS2 is a huge step up. NG2 Mentor and Master Ninja are fine for the most part, they show what NG2 is allllllllll about.
 
FootNinja said:
I was told that vanilla ng2 was the way to go, but i'll chime in after finishing the game.
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NGS2 *does* fix some things - things that could be considered fairly significant too. Unfortunately, it's also 'baby's first NG2'. It removes the best parts of NG2 combat-wise.
 
TheSeks said:
Play above Warrior and then come back. If you like it, cool. But the higher difficulties past Warrior/"Normal" are unbalanced as hell and really soured me on the game. It's something I think 2 Sigma fixed: Rebalanced difficulty but it still was a little too "offensive" minded for my taste in comparison to the "defense/punish" mindedness of NG1/Black.
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WTF Warrior was "normal" difficulty? So Acolyte was the easy difficulty then in NG2?

I think you meant Warrior is hard difficulty, Mentor is Very Hard & Master Ninja is "fuck your shit up" hard!

The Sigma rebalanced difficulty amount to waayy less enemies on screen, less or none at all of the harder versions of enemies mixed in & overall less waves of enemies in levels.

Playing Master Ninja on Sigma 2 still required you to spam on-landing UT's throughout if you wanted to progress. It just gave you some breathing room unlike with NG2.
 
Warrior is normal buddy. The difficulty was normal for a NG game but hard to very hard for a standard AAA game these days.

Acolyte is Ninja Bitch mode.
 
Ninja Gaiden 2 is easy until you reach Master Ninja, which is in fact horrifically unbalanced. The first level being the hardest for example...

Sigma 2 has a "more balanced" Master Ninja, but it just has enemies with more health that are OT resistant and less of them on the screen at one time. If that was the only change Sigma 2 had it wouldn't be so much worse, perhaps better, but it's not.

NG2 doesn't get worse later on. At the beginning It feels like the absolute best. It's only when you learn how to beat the higher difficulties you start playing in such a way that teaches you how flawed the system is... But this is like fifty hours of gameplay in, so just enjoy it.
 
MTMBStudios said:
NGS2 is baby mode though, it is actually less balanced than NG2. If your idea of fixing NG2 is "remove everything" then yes NGS2 is a huge step up. NG2 Mentor and Master Ninja are fine for the most part, they show what NG2 is allllllllll about.
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Incendiary shuriken spam 24/7?
 
Dave1988 said:
Incindiary shuriken spam 24/7?
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I never really got this complaint, I don't understand how anyone who beat Mentor and MN would list incend shuriken as a problem. Incend shurikens are the LEAST of your worries on Mentor and MN. Honestly after beating Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja you should know that using the invincibility frames on your dodge move will nullify the explosion damage of shurikens that stuck to Ryu.
 
MTMBStudios said:
I never really got this complaint, I don't understand how anyone who beat Mentor and MN would list incend shuriken as a problem. Incend shurikens are the LEAST of your worries on Mentor and MN. Honestly after beating Ninja Gaiden Black on Master Ninja you should know that using the invincibility frames on your dodge move will nullify the explosion damage of shurikens that stuck to Ryu.
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Pretty much, except in NG2 you don't even need dodge to negate the damage from them. There are plenty of moves like flying swallow, guillotine throw XY (Scythe) that are invincible too.

The real problem with MNM were throws and bows.
 
izunadono said:
Ninja Gaiden 2 is easy until you reach Master Ninja, which is in fact horrifically unbalanced. The first level being the hardest for example...

Sigma 2 has a "more balanced" Master Ninja, but it just has enemies with more health that are OT resistant and less of them on the screen at one time. If that was the only change Sigma 2 had it wouldn't be so much worse, perhaps better, but it's not.

NG2 doesn't get worse later on. At the beginning It feels like the absolute best. It's only when you learn how to beat the higher difficulties you start playing in such a way that teaches you how flawed the system is... But this is like fifty hours of gameplay in, so just enjoy it.
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Strangely enough, Mentor is harder than Master Ninja in Sigma 2 during parts.
You face Tac Ninjas in Mentor who will whittle down your health fast with automatic gun fire.
While in Master Ninja you face white/grey ninjas, who only throw regular shurikens that don't do jack & won't even interrupt your UT charges.

Also NG2 Acolyte difficulty = somewhere between NGS2's Warrior & Mentor.
 
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