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Ninja Theory-The Independent AAA proposition
- Thread starter ArkhamFantasy
- Start date
The Praiseworthy
Member
Well then there is 6.50K spreading around between these 3 titles.
JordanN
Banned
Am I reading this right?
They're saying publishers were evaluating the option of quitting console games forever? That seems sensational.
PS4 and XBO were being developed in secret (like always). I'm sure information had to be relayed between Publishers and Sony/MS for it to not happen.
You make an excellent point. But people don't make decisions based on logic, so we (or at least businessmen) very much do need terms like independent AAA.
Honestly that's why next gen lineups are so pathetic right now. They all didn't expect PS4 and Xbox One sales to be as good as they are. They didn't start gigantic projects in advance to the extent that they normally do. They took a wait and see approach.
Basically, almost all the major publishers are 2 years behind. Even 2015 will be relatively slow. We're talking 2016 when everything is caught up.
We have heard similar things from other devs. Warhorse studios (Kingdom Come: Deliverance) also said there was a very serious lack in confidence from publishers in the new consoles before release.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
When you look how pathetic Capcom in particular has been, it makes a bit of sense to why NT were led to believe that.
Still, I think its more of a "Thats what we will tell you to justify not funding your pitch" than "Thats what the company as a whole believes" situation.
Shrike_Priest
Member
Fighter looked amazing. I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Basically, even though I cringed at the "independent AAA"-line in the trailer, this talk really makes me think they're on to something.
Console gaming really needs a mid-tier space again.
Basically, even though I cringed at the "independent AAA"-line in the trailer, this talk really makes me think they're on to something.
Console gaming really needs a mid-tier space again.
"AAA" should be kept far away from indie gaming.
the main reason "middle tier & below" titles can't be sustained at retail anymore like they did in the past, is a BECAUSE of the proliferation of "AAA" gaming.
it's an unsustainable long-term business model that is, by and large, a shift that has been pushed primarily by western developers chasing hollywood.
no. keep that that shit away from the innovative 'spirit' that's currently the main motivation behind digital indie game development.
the moment you introduce "AAA indie" gaming is the moment small, innovative ideas get pushed to the side once again for more generic, mainstream genre mechanics with higher 'production values'.
the indie space needs to be defended vigorously from companies who have a little bit more financial muscle than the average garage-indie.
i'm thinking years & years from now where, thanks to the unsustainable "AAA" model, there will potentially be an invasion of the 'indie space' by more mainstream developers who will use their greater financial muscle to buy all the add space, floor space, store space they need to saturate the users digital store screen with their titles at the expense of exposure for smaller developers.
just like at retail today (where idiot 'gamers' think they shouldn't have to pay more than 'x' price for a platformer ; regardless of the effort and production behind the game), the "AAA indie" game will re-adjust what a gamer thinks he/she should pay for a digital game. this will drastically cut into the profitability & sustainability of smaller devs and make it harder for them to stay in business.
the main reason "middle tier & below" titles can't be sustained at retail anymore like they did in the past, is a BECAUSE of the proliferation of "AAA" gaming.
it's an unsustainable long-term business model that is, by and large, a shift that has been pushed primarily by western developers chasing hollywood.
no. keep that that shit away from the innovative 'spirit' that's currently the main motivation behind digital indie game development.
the moment you introduce "AAA indie" gaming is the moment small, innovative ideas get pushed to the side once again for more generic, mainstream genre mechanics with higher 'production values'.
the indie space needs to be defended vigorously from companies who have a little bit more financial muscle than the average garage-indie.
i'm thinking years & years from now where, thanks to the unsustainable "AAA" model, there will potentially be an invasion of the 'indie space' by more mainstream developers who will use their greater financial muscle to buy all the add space, floor space, store space they need to saturate the users digital store screen with their titles at the expense of exposure for smaller developers.
just like at retail today (where idiot 'gamers' think they shouldn't have to pay more than 'x' price for a platformer ; regardless of the effort and production behind the game), the "AAA indie" game will re-adjust what a gamer thinks he/she should pay for a digital game. this will drastically cut into the profitability & sustainability of smaller devs and make it harder for them to stay in business.
Samir Sedlar
Member
I enjoyed reading this, in got a pretty great insight into the studio life and the industry as well.
Working on multiple projects is interesting as well, I wonder how their next game is going to be like, They are into Hack n Slash yet the publishers are not, so I wonder if they found one to publish such a title, or if they are going to do something totally different.
Working on multiple projects is interesting as well, I wonder how their next game is going to be like, They are into Hack n Slash yet the publishers are not, so I wonder if they found one to publish such a title, or if they are going to do something totally different.
I think Hellblade will be a success for Ninja Theory regardless, first of all they are developing it with a much more focus, It has a fraction of their past titles budget, and it will release digitally, so most of the money will go to them directly.
Not in the same sense, but I think they will still have those AAA production values.
Or they can just do that with their own IP. Don't want them anywhere near a DMC game ever again.
Are we sure they haven't...uh...downsized? What do you think they're working on?
I would guess a mix of downloadable titles and development support for other projects.
They had a hiring spree early this year.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Not at all considering the production values of those games and the size of the studio.
Slamtastic
Member
I said "multiplayer DmC" to describe how the fighting and moves looked familiar to that game. If you actually read the article, you'd see that they don't mention an IP for the prototype at all.
Anyway, hype for Hellblade has gone up after seeing that they have apparently learned from Itsuno's input while making DmC, and will (hopefully) match that quality in the future. Which, with their own IP instead of one with previous standards of quality to be compared to, will be good enough in this dry action game landscape.
That Dude John
Member
That was a very interesting read. Didn't know how much they went through and hoping for the best. I wonder how much of Hellblade is funded straight from the royalties from DmC.
Very curious to see what the bulk of the studio is working on, though.
Very curious to see what the bulk of the studio is working on, though.
CastorTroy
Member
I might be biased because this is NT saying it, but "independent AAA" seems like a way of saying "We think we're really good, but no one has faith in us".
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
Great article. I hope they succeed in independent AAA as many studios that were broken down might have a reason to start up again. It will also help convince big publishers that we don't want generic shooters.
Imagine cool action games selling millions while being independent. Don't you think it would make publishers re-think their whole spreadsheet model. This is very good for the industry.
Imagine cool action games selling millions while being independent. Don't you think it would make publishers re-think their whole spreadsheet model. This is very good for the industry.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
This is what I have been saying for a while. People who cast off indies and claim they only play AAA don't really understand how good indie is for the industry. As budgets for bigger studios bloat due to marketing and other stuff, indie games will only get bigger, almost rivaling well known AAA games. They will have to re-think their strategy if this type of development becomes big.
That's why I don't fret when studios get closed by publishers. They have another opportunity to make their own, start fresh and have that freedom to begin something new especially with the talents they already have. This is really good.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Indeed. Very creative studio.
So is Hellblade only going to be a small game then? Or is the team so small because it's still so early in development?
After the trailer I thought this would be the spiritual sequel to Heavenly Sword.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Edit: Not sure why LowHighKang was quoted.
According to Capcom it sold 1.6 million.
They once said Heavenly Sword sold around 1.5M
and Enslaved Sold around 750.000k
So... DmC sold 2.250M?
I think it's "decent" numbers for HS and DmC....... but dammit Enslaved deserved much more ;_;
According to Capcom it sold 1.6 million.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
The AAA games landscape is run almost identically to the Major Label recording industry for musicians.
Switch "publisher" to "record label" and "IP" with "album masters", and it's the same deal.
The game industry needs to get better at handling their business. The democratization of tools and distribution is making that much easier at a much faster pace now.
But as game players, we need to start holding ourselves responsible as well. If you're upset that creative, risk-taking games are no longer being made, we need to accept that it is we who continue to purchase these so-called "AAA" games. Everyone is responsible: the game players, the distributors/publishers and the developers.
We simply need to cut out the middleman, if you ask me.
Where are developers going to get money to fund themselves?
ComputerMKII
Banned
Thanks for posting, OP, I'll check it out now
They talk about that in the presentation that is linked in the OP.
Samir Sedlar
Member
Did they ever do -development support- before ?!, It seems to be they'd rather be doing their own game.
Kinda of both.
If I recall correctly, development started 2 months ago, also according to them the game will be
I hope smaller doesn't mean a shorter SP campaign.
UltraGunner
Banned
Well shit that would explain EA's E3 showing being a bunch of unfinished assets if they thought Next Gen wasn't worth investing into.
Infinite Xero
Member
That fighting game and Razer looked really cool. Kinda scary that games like that couldn't find a publisher.
It sounds like they didn't make a sequel because Ninja Theory didn't want to downsize its 80 people team.
Also, a 79% metacritic score = poorly received? 1.5 million = bad sales? Dem AAA standards.
It sounds like it will, but the game will cost less as well ($15-$20 is the cost of DVD). I hope the game is at least as long as Heavenly Sword.
Or that they are wrong for not funding a sequel to a game that was both poorly received and didn't sell? This industry indeed
It sounds like they didn't make a sequel because Ninja Theory didn't want to downsize its 80 people team.
Also, a 79% metacritic score = poorly received? 1.5 million = bad sales? Dem AAA standards.
It sounds like it will, but the game will cost less as well ($15-$20 is the cost of DVD). I hope the game is at least as long as Heavenly Sword.
Leafhopper
Banned
Doesn't help that AAA don't really have standards when Publishers set these ridiculous numbers to hit sometimes with sales.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
I think 29.99 is a good price for a new game. It's something many people would dish out for. 15-20 seems like it's too low to fund a normal AAA game. that's more indie territory. Since they want to be in the middle, their price should reflect that.
Samir Sedlar
Member
hmmm, I hope they don't go way down, I think I can settle for a 7hrs journey or something for that price.
For those not following their Twitter feed, Ninja Theory posted a post containing pitch materials for Razer.
Blog Post Link
Lot of interesting stuff in there, including some in-depth documentation and a couple pre-visualization trailers. Although I doubt this we'll start any sort of trend, I'd love to see more studios releasing this sort of stuff to the public. It's a great view into the industry, and I could only see it as a healthy thing for developers to learn from.
Not to mention I love the Syd Mead vibe I'm getting from the color palette. I'd link one of the concept art pieces but they're rather large.
Blog Post Link
Lot of interesting stuff in there, including some in-depth documentation and a couple pre-visualization trailers. Although I doubt this we'll start any sort of trend, I'd love to see more studios releasing this sort of stuff to the public. It's a great view into the industry, and I could only see it as a healthy thing for developers to learn from.
Not to mention I love the Syd Mead vibe I'm getting from the color palette. I'd link one of the concept art pieces but they're rather large.
not a fan of Ninja Theory or that game ideas but that was interesting, I would definitely like something like this from other studios.
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