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Nintendo 3DS Is a Last-Gen Game Machine - Wired/Game Life Opinion

radioheadrule83 said:
If an individual's system notifies them of an update (as the Wii did via the message board and various channels) why wouldn't they update it? If they get a message telling them the eShop is available, or that they couldn't load x game or y channel before updating -- why wouldn't they enable it?

That would be utterly ridiculous. The only people not updating their systems and getting the eShop at launch will be the people who aren't going online at all.

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing the people who are getting the 3DS right at launch being the people who are never going to be going online at all, seeing as those are the people who tend to be the tech-enthusiasts who are going to be well-versed in online offerings. And from what I can tell, unless the person goes in and turns off the StreetPass settings and keeps their wireless off all the time, they will eventually get pinged with the update.

Not to mention the possibility of certain Nintendo games (say, Mario Kart 3DS) that might come out that will require an updated firmware that just might happen to include the shop.

Honestly, if Nintendo gets their shop out 4-6 weeks after launch, will it really make that big of a difference?
 
I don't really see much "new" analysis in this article. Mostly a collection of ideas you can find on forum posts or from analysts and it's not put together well. What is he trying to say exactly?
 
fernoca said:
As always, software is the key. In the case of handhelds, the 3DS has the advantage of having Nintendo's support.

The article is quite right about the comparison to the PSP at first, but forgets that part of the reason the PSP was "defeated" by the DS was because of Sony's own fault. The moment they released the PSP they just didn't knew what to do with it. They didn't even knew how to advertise it properly and to this date they still don't (Marcus PSP?).

While Nintendo was running around the PSP with redesigns, re-brand, Touch Generation labels, rebirth of classic games, new kind of experiences; while the PSP was basically left to survive through (strong) third party support; but Capcom can only release that many Monster Hunters in Japan.

There was that moment nearly two years ago, with LittleBigPlanet, Gran Turismo, Soulcalibur, Tekken, Motorstorm, Jak; perfect opportunity for Sony to re-launch the PSP as a strong handheld, what did they do? Release the PSP Go at a higher price, with no way to play UMDs and with no advertising; so all those nice names and great titles were mostly ignored by everyone.

That's probably why there's some excitement with the 3DS. Even if it "fails" at least it will have a great support through Nintendo and be worth the money of many because of the Marios, Zelda, Pokemons, etc.

Has there ever been a "This popular competitor sucks" ad campaign that's ever succeeded? Like with Blur, it just seems to be anti-advertising as you're basically insulting your core demographic in favor of a demographic which probably isn't interested anyway.
 
why are you so angry that Nintendo doesn't care about downloadable software? if you love downloadable software buy an Apple product. why do you want to buy something from Nintendo and have something that Apple is best in?

and, if this Apple religion proves to be right and AppStores are the future then Apple will destroy Nintendo and this is what will happen. who cares?
 
I think Pachter said he expects Apple to beat Nintendo in the portable 3d arena. Although I can't access the article at work.

When I wrote apple fanboy, I actually meant the general trend of people/writers using Apple as the pinnacle of how it should be done when they have proven very little in terms of handheld gaming, at least from the viewpoint of somebody who actually plays games that are meaningful.
 
plagiarize said:
i hope so. i'm really excited for what AR games could be, but i've not been happy with 2D camera implementations.
There's an absolutely brilliant opportunity that the pessimist in me says Nintendo will never take advantage of: if they were to release an AR augment to the Pokemon TCG it would be huge. Every kid in the world would need one, whether they played the cards prior or not.
 
Kobun said:
]What is all but certain is that Nintendo’s momentum coming off the ridiculous success of DS, coupled with the wonderful novelty of the 3DS display and the handheld’s strong software lineup, will cause the 3DS to fly off shelves at launch, spread like wildfire this year and be the hottest Christmas present of 2011.

But what happens then?
Easy: Nintendo releases Mario Kart.

And the year after, Smash Bros, or a new 2D Mario, or a new Pokemon.

Flawless victory.
 
caligula13 said:
why are you so angry that Nintendo doesn't care about downloadable software? if you love downloadable software buy an Apple product. why do you want to buy something from Nintendo and have something that Apple is best in?

and, if this Apple religion proves to be right and AppStores are the future then Apple will destroy Nintendo and this is what will happen. who cares?

I care, I wan't to know the future now!
 
webrunner said:
Has there ever been a "This popular competitor sucks" ad campaign that's ever succeeded? Like with Blur, it just seems to be anti-advertising as you're basically insulting your core demographic in favor of a demographic which probably isn't interested anyway.
Nintendon't?
 
I like the quicky, cheap games on my iphone; but I would never ever want to give up full fledged adventure games and rpgs that are on the DS and PSP. People wishing iOS dominance over conventional handheld gaming systems are enemies of gaming.
 
metsallica said:
Tons of people will buy the 3DS and never update it; how could Nintendo bungle this again?/QUOTE]Why do people think this? This isn't the DS. This has quite a bit more space. It would be very simple for them to force a firmware upgrade via new released games...like the PSP does or the console counter parts.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
If an individual's system notifies them of an update (as the Wii did via the message board and various channels) why wouldn't they update it? If they get a message telling them the eShop is available, or that they couldn't load x game or y channel before updating -- why wouldn't they enable it?

That would be utterly ridiculous. The only people not updating their systems and getting the eShop at launch will be the people who aren't going online at all.

I think you are overestimating the number of 3DS users, aged 5-15, who will have the slightest inclination or interest in updating their system's firmware at some future date, unless the system does it entirely passively, without requiring the user to instruct it to.

If you don't forcibly introduce that functionality to certain users, i.e.: kids and moms, as the first thing that happens when they turn on the system for the first time, you are forever losing the ability to introduce that functionality to them. I mean, even if the system passively updates firmware six months down the line, by that point the young user is so used to interacting with the system in a way that doesn't involve him going to the online store on the system, you will only recapture so much of that demographic. That's why I say it would be drastically more effective to force all users to play around with the online store, download a demo, input CC info, all as part of the startup process, when people are really paying attention.
 
What I look for portable games and systems has massively changed since the DS launch.

Online services, Social features, digital distribution, Pricing and content changes, updates even gasp... DLC all are important.

What worries my most is the 3DS games business model, I want apps, short games and longer experiences now and I defiantly don't want to spend £40 for each big game (some maybe). Also if I want a gaming focused device my tastes have changed to more genres than what the 3DS is showing (tho is has a great spread).

I'm really gona wait that out, its a same Nintendo seem to lag behind the changes in what we want out of our gaming experiences on top of the great games themselves.
 
Graphics Horse said:
I thought firmware updates were going to happen behind the scenes as long as the wifi switch was on, or did that rumour get denied?

As far as I understand it the system will automatically download updates unless you disable that feature
 
Graphics Horse said:
I thought firmware updates were going to happen behind the scenes as long as the wifi switch was on, or did that rumour get denied?

As far as I know, thats how it will work. Unless something has changed.
 
parasight said:
The iPhone argument is the only one I'll agree with here. More and more, my younger cousins, nieces and nephews are ditching their DS' and PSPs for iPods. If anything, Nintendo will lose a chunk of the casual market due to cheap DD and image perception. It's more hip to be seen with an Apple product than an actual portable gaming device these days.


You know Nokia said the EXACT same thing about the N-GAGE. They said that young cool kids wouldn't want to be seen in public with a GameBoy Advance over their TACO phone.

It's all about the games buddy. iPhones and all don't have them yet.
 
UncleSporky said:
The store could still be there at launch, easily. The way it's phrased in the spec sheet, it could happen anytime, including immediately.

Yep.

We have no guarantee that the eShop will be available at launch, but nor does there seem to be any reason to state as a fact, as Kohler repeatedly has, that it won't.
 
Chris is entitled to his opinion but this is, once again, another piece that focuses far too heavily on digital distribution and comparisons to Apple products as if they are direct comparison to what Nintendo intend to offer with their portable devices.

Ironically I agree with many points. I'm worried about their digital distribution service, I do think Nintendo have and will drop the ball on many aspects of their digital distribution, and I do believe that digital distribution is only going to get bigger and bigger as time goes by.

But the user psychology of digital distribution on a gaming exclusive machine is completely different from the user psychology of someone with a phone. People are buying these devices for different reasons, and for different portable experiences.

I wouldn't call Nintendo's online services as 'last-gen'. I'd call them worse. They're archaic, clumsy, and rarely supported to the extent they should be. But it really doesn't matter in the long run, because Nintendo's target market isn't people who download a bazillion aps and product.
 
caligula13 said:
why are you so angry that Nintendo doesn't care about downloadable software? if you love downloadable software buy an Apple product. why do you want to buy something from Nintendo and have something that Apple is best in?

and, if this Apple religion proves to be right and AppStores are the future then Apple will destroy Nintendo and this is what will happen. who cares?

Have you actually read the article? It's talking about Nintendo's obsession about the blue-ocean strategy. And how Nintendo is basically ignoring trends to focus squarely on its comfort zone. It has abandoned the blue-ocean strategy.

Not that it really matters in Japan though. And maybe Nintendo doesn't care about those threats for that reason. If Japan is safe, that's all that matters.
 
The thing about the iPhone/iPod Touch games is that there are only a handful of them that are worth any significant time outside of a few minutes. It's always they very few that get mentioned. The rest can hold your attention for only a few minutes before they are quickly forgotten about. They are and never will be a replacement for a full games on a hand held. Ports of said games have not faired that well because the device wasn't designed for them.

Let's not also forget that Wii game disc include new system updates that install on the system. There is no reason at all to even think that 3DS games won't include this. So one way or another the store will be added to all Nintendo 3DS systems unless a person doesn't buy any game after launch. If they were in that group then the store being on the system out of the box wouldn't matter to that person.
 
lawblob said:
I think you are overestimating the number of 3DS users, aged 5-15, who will have the slightest inclination or interest in updating their system's firmware at some future date, unless the system does it entirely passively, without requiring the user to instruct it to.

If you don't forcibly introduce that functionality to certain users, i.e.: kids and moms, as the first thing that happens when they turn on the system for the first time, you are forever losing the ability to introduce that functionality to them.

Doesn't matter if the updates are bundled with 3DS games.
 
^^ And if NoA knew definitively that it wouldn't be available day 1, I see no reason why they wouldn't state it explicitly (as they did with the system transfer).
 
UncleSporky said:
The store could still be there at launch, easily. The way it's phrased in the spec sheet, it could happen anytime, including immediately.
My (hopeful) guess is they started flashing systems in the last week or so (it can't be too far back because the stolen 3DS didn't have any firmware) and these features weren't complete in time, but will be at launch. Maybe the SD card included with the system will have the firmware update on it and you will be able to update immediately without even needing a WiFi connection.
 
lawblob said:
I think you are overestimating the number of 3DS users, aged 5-15, who will have the slightest inclination or interest in updating their system's firmware at some future date.

If you don't forcibly introduce that functionality to certain users, i.e.: kids and moms, as the first thing that happens when they turn on the system for the first time, you are forever losing the ability to introduce that functionality to them.

Consider this, if something like 25% of PS3s in the US are never connected to the internet, what percentage of 3DS' will never be connected to the internet?

And if they don't connect them to the internet (there are reasons other than the eShop to connect this thing to the internet) - the eShop isn't going to be much use to them.

From what I've just read on the last page - the quote is that "some" applications won't be available at launch -- is the absence of the eShop even confirmed?

And again, even if it IS absent at launch - it means nothing. Updates will be forced by games, by channels, people online will receive update notifications... and those that don't? Who aren't even bothering to take the thing online? Well they don't sound likely to have been doing much shopping anyway. It is UTTER NONSENSE that this excludes people from the eShop 'forever'. Nonsense.
 
this is true.

although it will still succeed. largely based on its 3d gimmick.

but throwing more gpu power and analogue sticks at a machine isnt forward thinking yo.
 
I'm curious about something: With so many different competitors in the DD, smartphone, bite sized apps space... Does it really make sense for Nintendo to jump into that market head on? I personally feel there will always be a niche for the longer handheld games.
 
Ever since the cautionary tale of the PSP, I’ve been skeptical whenever game industry watchers line up in universal praise of anything. It’s not that I have a contrarian streak. It’s because when everybody seems to be on board with a new product, that means it is too understandable to them: It’s exactly like what is popular now, but better, therefore it could not possibly fail.
Hmm.

I think this is a mistake a lot of us make. We hear one side of the story and we make that the foundations for our opinions.

How many times have we (a purposeful word choice that includes me, I'll point out) gone "GAF WAS WRONG ON THIS ONE" or "GAF THOUGHT THIS WOULD FAIL AND THE GAF CONSENSUS IS ALWAYS WRONG" or "GAMERS ONLY LOVE THIS CERTAIN KIND OF THING?"

But even in the microcosm of this board alone, ascribing any singular opinion to X number of thousands of people is silly. Similarly, I have not heard "universal" praise of the 3DS since E3. Yeah, a bunch of people at the 3DS event were hot on it. Hype is funny that way. There are also people who, in this very thread, have been vocal about how little they want it or how they're more than willing to wait 12 - 24 months for a revision. If that is universal praise, then my high school play reviews were in retrospect fantastic.

Ultimately this isn't about whether it's praised universally or not, a position where either extreme could be just as wrong as the other. The problem comes from whether that assumption of what praise means actually means something in and of itself. At E3 2006, there were stories of people literally stampeding past Sony's booth to try the Wii, anecdotes of long lines, etc. The Wii was praised and ended up leading the generation in sales despite being lightyears behind the competition in features and hardware. It had that wow factor, that spectacle that turned a segment of the population on. You would not find a "The Wii is our future and I love it!" majority on GAF, I assure you.

But that’s not what succeeds in a fast-changing industry like videogames. Disruptive products succeed. And nobody sees them coming, because they’re so different that the establishment doesn’t understand their appeal. This is the lesson of the “blue ocean” that Nintendo kept hammering back when it was the plucky underdog. Now, Nintendo is the establishment. With 3DS, I don’t know if the company is looking to open up more blue ocean or just defend the great big one it’s already got, which is starting to turn a little pinkish if not blood red.

I take issue with the idea Nintendo was an underdog in 2004. In home consoles, sure, Sony was clearly the establishment. They had been dominating in the handheld space long before the DS and, while I agree they had to do something drastic, the DS isn't as drastic as you seem to think. Some of the most amazing, most innovative titles for the system such as Ouendan, The World Ends With You, Ghost Trick, etc. were not huge sellers. The titles that were huge sellers were things that did appeal to the gamer that wants something popular but better; Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros., etc. There were also the expanded audience games that did well, too.

The DS didn't succeed because it was the anti-PSP, it succeeded because it competed directly with software and looked outside that direct competition, too. This is what the Blue Ocean analogy misses. Nintendo wasn't just the lone shark in a blue ocean, it was fighting right there with Sony as competition, as well. To paint Nintendo as the underdog in 2004 and the establishment now misses that nothing really has changed. The expanded audience titles are still there, the hardcore titles are still there. If the ratio changes drastically toward the latter, which is impossible to tell at this juncture, fine, point conceded. But we have no way of telling if that will happen.

But what happens then? Where will 3DS sales figures be trending in two or three years, once Apple and other smartphone makers have introduced their own hardware innovations and come up with new ways of siphoning gamers’ cash and attention, a few dollars and a few minutes at a time?

One thing you don't address here is the possibility that things will reverse. What about kids who got iPod touches that want to move to more complex games, genres that you yourself explained need buttons? What if they don't want to play Mario clones but are totally willing to use their parents money to buy actual Mario? What if the iPhone market slowly begins pulling prices up so $15 is the average and not the crazy outlier?

These are a lot of hypotheticals, but I don't think they're impossible by any stretch of the imagination. I do agree with you that smartphones will inevitably suck away former "hardcore" gamers in to the realm of pick up and play cellphone titles, I've seen it happen and it probably happens a lot. I think there is a small window of opportunity for Nintendo to do the reverse, however, and get those gamers upstream. Whether they can do that or not is up to Nintendo and is not something that anyone can guess at, especially not with authority, before launch.
 
Lonely1 said:
Read the article. So this is another "How awesome is Apple? So awesome" article?


Pretty much. With a bonus of WHAT WILL HAPPENS WHEN PSP2/IPHONE gets the 3d!





who cares. Its just like how Kinect/Move was totally gonna change things too
 
BMX Bandit said:
metsallica said:
Tons of people will buy the 3DS and never update it; how could Nintendo bungle this again?
Why do people think this? This isn't the DS. This has quite a bit more space. It would be very simple for them to force a firmware upgrade via new released games...like the PSP does or the console counter parts.
I get that SpotPass will "do this for them," but I question that actually functioning. I guess I'll have to see it to believe it, although it's certainly presumable that games will force firmware on people. So I guess that alleviates much of my worry. It just seems odd, as Kohler is saying, that they'd miss out even a little bit in this world heading towards all-digital distribution. Why even invite the chance for people to miss the store? Delay the system a month, don't shoot yourself in the foot needlessly even if it's only a flesh wound.
 
1-D_FTW said:
Have you actually read the article? It's talking about Nintendo's obsession about the blue-ocean strategy. And how Nintendo is basically ignoring trends to focus squarely on its comfort zone. It has abandoned the blue-ocean strategy.

Not that it really matters in Japan though. And maybe Nintendo doesn't care about those threats for that reason. If Japan is safe, that's all that matters.

yes, i read it. and i don't see the AppStores to be the blu-ocean. Wii Fit is blue-ocean, for example.

and my question stays: why are people like the author of the article and all the gaf members so angry that Nintendo is not doing what they think is the future (which means what is right)? have you invested in Nintendo's stock?
 
Lonely1 said:
Read the article. So this is another "How awesome is Apple? So awesome" article?
I don't think so at all.

My take on Apple is they were in a position where they could experiment and create a truly open market for games, no retailer interfearance, all publishers on the same level etc.

With that games makers were thrust into an excosystem where they could innovate and experiment with the gaming market. Pricing, quality and length of experience, features, updates etc.

That has lead to a hugely successful innovation that meets what people want when playing games on the move.


Nintendo is in the more traditional business model for games where they have the opertunity to experiment and push things forward but they probably wont and will follow.
 
Instro said:
As far as I know, thats how it will work. Unless something has changed.

At the very least, it's going to send you a message saying 'HAY GUYS, THE SHOP IS OPEN!'. I don't see the big deal about why it's being restricted to those who randomly decide to update the firmware one day. It won't be a secret.
 
While I'm not sure Chris will end up being right, personally I think the 3DS will sell it's tits off, and for the long term too, but I can see the argument.

Technically, he's actually right.

Turn down the 3D slider on every game and you essentially have a more powerful DS with a couple of new software enabled features.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though. At least not for some.
 
caligula13 said:
yes, i read it. and i don't see the AppStores to be the blu-ocean. Wii Fit is blue-ocean, for example.

and my question stays: why are people like the author of the article and all the gaf members so angry that Nintendo is not doing what they think is the future (which means what is right)? have you invested in Nintendo's stock?

You're exactly right. When a company revolutionizes the way that people en masse' purchase and consume entertainment media in the space of three years, it's better to just ignore them.
 
Rollo Larson said:
basically that all the optimism surrounding 3ds seems reckless, all things considered. its a fair argument at this point
that and that if you ignore the thing that makes the 3DS unique, that it's not that unique.

which seems like a bonkers argument to me. being disruptive isn't about whether or not the disruption gets boring after a while. it's about whether it makes it appealing to people that haven't bought the 3DS.

if people get bored of the 3D effect *after* they've bought one it doesn't matter. all that matters at that point is that Nintendo continue to make software that appeals to them.
 
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