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"Nintendo could be on path to irrelevance", says Atari founder

Grinchy said:
I think the Atari founder is speaking as a person who was in the situation of running a company that went from dominance to irrelevance. I don't think he's speaking as a person who thinks his company still has strong relevance. I feel like there are some people getting that confused.

Whether you agree with his thoughts here or not, he might know a little something about this kind of situation.
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Yup. He knows exactly what he's talking about and what he sees. He won't deny any of those comments.
(Be it Atari, Atari Games, Infogrames, whatever....)

Of course, the typical foaming Nintendo fan response is "But they have a billion dollars in the bank! They'll be around forever!"
 
JABEE said:
WiiU is a large part of Nintendo's short and long-term strategy. They can't keep investing in colossal misses. They are not doomed. They still have plenty of maneuverability left to change their fate.
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That's exactly what I mean though. One system isn't going to doom them so long as they learn from their...

... ah, so that's what you're getting at.
 
Quadraphonic said:
Yup. He knows exactly what he's talking about and what he sees. He won't deny any of those comments.
(Be it Atari, Atari Games, Infogrames, whatever....)

Of course, the typical foaming Nintendo fan response is "But they have a billion dollars in the bank! They'll be around forever!"
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Also...

"Atari is ded"

Going by this thread.
 
Bushnell hasn't been very high on Nintendo for some time. He believes they should make their games for every device etc. If Nintendo walks away at the end of the 2DS/3DS Generation and sells 80 million even though that might be close to half of what the DS sold that's better than selling 0 hardware and just selling software.
 
Quadraphonic said:
Of course, the typical foaming Nintendo fan response is "But they have a billion dollars in the bank! They'll be around forever!"
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I'd assume they'd be around even if Wii U is a failure. They have enough to last a number of consistent, sequential failures. I think, if anything, the doomed card is pulled way too easily on Nintendo. If they put out a single fucking thing that underperforms, it's time to get the guillotine. This has often been used against the 3DS because it has failed to surpass DS sales, which correct me if I'm wrong, is the most sold video game platform to date. Where do people get these hilarious ideas that every new thing must break a ceiling of something prior? This is not how the fucking world works.

That being said Wii U is currently doing absolutely poorly, and that's putting it nicely.
 
Quadraphonic said:
Yup. He knows exactly what he's talking about and what he sees. He won't deny any of those comments.
(Be it Atari, Atari Games, Infogrames, whatever....)

Of course, the typical foaming Nintendo fan response is "But they have a billion dollars in the bank! They'll be around forever!"
Click to expand...

Well, that "typical foaming Nintendo fan response" is quite true. Atari was plagued with horrible business decisions.
Nintendo has made relatively minor ones. Yes, the WiiU is in trouble. Nintendo as a whole certainly is not. Their brands are stronger than ever, and not on a path to "irrelevance".
 
This idea that Nintendo has only served the 12 and under crowd has always been consistently wrong.

What people don't seem to realize is that Nintendo does well with not only kids but adults as well. They do great with women, which is an expanding segment of the market. Pretty much anybody in the youth market as well as those over 30 are serviced pretty well by Nintendo.

The one segment they don't do particularly well with is young teen males and single young adult males, but of course they are the cash cows of the market, and the other groups are more price sensitive than this group is.
 
Its important to look at the wording:

could be on a "path to irrelevance"

Could and path are key words, nobody is saying Nintendo are irrelevant now. But if they do not change things around, in a few years they could find themselves in no mans land.
 
I would totally heed advice on what it means to stay relevant from Nolan Bushnell. There's so much Nintendo could learn from his infinite wisdom born of practical application on the subject.
 
Dog food is delicious said:
I fully believe that if Nintendo put out a console on par with Sony and MS, they'd be perfectly fine.
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I'm not sure of that, it might not have much more appeal then the other two and would probably not be profitable. They really would have needed to work on 3rd party relations before they pulled something like that.
 
Irrelevance? No. Maybe in the console business...they can't afford another failure, assuming the Wii U never picks up steam. Their handhelds are successful enough they can redouble on that front and be successful at it, though.
 
3ggly.jpg
 
thekonamicode said:
Something tells me Nintendo will be fine.
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Fine as they'll still have money? Sure. Fine as in the industry moves with them? Not really.

I think there's a very fragile element between Nintendo and the industry right now. They've put out a console that's inbetween gaps. While it's easy to say "they can try again", how are they going to do it? PS3/360 represent competition as do the PS4/XBO if not more. What's going to happen when Nintendo gets caught again by the PS4/XBO and their successors? Nintendo is going to have to wage a two front war and under their current management, I don't think that's something they can possibly win without some sort of luck (i.e Wii).

Of course, they'll always have Mario and Pokemon but I don't think it's healthy when the company is completely reduced to that instead of having those IP's in addition to a prosperous business. It will be interesting to see what kind of business moves will be dictated because the company could look more niche and niche. Less popular Nintendo IP's getting the axe? I don't think that's going to be good for gamers.

Edit: I also wouldn't put past the idea they can't not succeed. There has been an actual 10 year decline which has lead to significant losses in some way or another (i.e losing ground to SEGA in the 16-bit wars, followed by Sony and maybe even Microsoft).

Man, I've said this stuff so many times, I wonder if this will be the last.
 
I think he's absolutely right that handheld game-only devices don't make sense anymore.

The market for dedicated devices is shrinking fast - nobody is buying MP3 players or GPS units or digital cameras anymore, they're using their smartphone for all that stuff. Dedicated portable gaming devices will suffer the same fate. You can argue this is already happening - just look at Vita's (lack of) sales, and we can probably all agree the 3DS won't ever match DS sales.
 
Sean said:
and we can probably all agree the 3DS won't ever match DS sales.
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no shit. the DS was a beast like the ps2

none of the consoles outsold the ps2 this gen and they're doing fine.


admittedly, nintendo could've handled their 3ds a lot better. the first few months was terrible.
 
Sean said:
I think he's absolutely right that handheld game-only devices don't make sense anymore.

The market for dedicated devices is shrinking fast - nobody is buying MP3 players or GPS units or digital cameras anymore, they're using their smartphone for all that stuff. Dedicated portable gaming devices will suffer the same fate. You can argue this is already happening - just look at Vita's (lack of) sales, and we can probably all agree the 3DS won't ever match DS sales.
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It's doubtful any dedicated device will match the DS, actually. Doesn't mean anything, other than the DS was a monster. Even then, the 3DS is doing quite well. Don't be fooled by Sony's complete apathy for the Vita.
Smartphone gaming is certainly a thing, but the experiences you get on a dedicated handheld aren't even comparable.
 
Opiate said:
I actually agree with this in the precise way it's worded.

Which is to say, Nintendo isn't doomed, but if they refuse to change their path for the next 8+ years or so, then they may be. They're on the wrong path, but one of the advantages of being a smaller company (Relative to competitors, of course) is that you can change paths more quickly.
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It's sad that people can't take away this lesson, and default back on "Lol, Atari!" comments.
 
Pffft.

Nintendo has the nuclear option called become a 3rd-party publisher.

And they're a long, long, long, long ways away from that desperation.
 
"Nintendo always had a soft spot for young people - they sort of did the 12-and-under pretty well, and the other guys did the 12-and-over.

"And now I think the other [consoles] are good enough on those things, and the rush to upgrade from the 12-and-under is not nearly as important."
Click to expand...

The 12-and-under market is now playing COD.
 
2nd post beat me to it, but I don't have a problem with his assessment. We'll just have to see how it all plays out though.
 
linkofrs said:
I'm not sure of that, it might not have much more appeal then the other two and would probably not be profitable. They really would have needed to work on 3rd party relations before they pulled something like that.
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Honestly at this point I'm not sure 3rd parties would even consider making games for them even if they released a beast of a console on par with PS4/Xbox One.

First, they would be behind the curve in regards to the forthcoming consoles.

Second, i'm pretty sure developers aren't very eager to get their games on a console who's reps think any game that isn't first party is "meh" (and who have seemed to hold this mantra for several generations now)
 
Yes, they could be on their way to irrelevance.

Microsoft could also be about to enter the smart-microwave industry.

A lot of things could be.
 
IdreamofHIME said:
The man knows nothing about gaming, the videogame crash proved that. His opinion is worth about as much as anyone of gaf.
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Sorry, what part did Bushnell have in the crash?

That's like saying Yamauchi is responsible for the failure of Wii U or that Peter Moore is responsible for the Xbox One's problems.
 
Parapraxis said:
Honestly at this point I'm not sure 3rd parties would even consider making games for them even if they released a beast of a console on par with PS4/Xbox One.

First, they would be behind the curve in regards to the forthcoming consoles.

Second, i'm pretty sure developers aren't very eager to get their games on a console who's reps think any game that isn't first party is "meh"
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You may be right, however I'm still convinced that this upcoming christmas will see a surge in console sales. A lot of people consider the Wii U dead at this point but they haven't even really marketed it. If Nintendo is clever they'll start throwing out advertising money before the holidays when all the other 2013 games are released. Think of it as a re-launch, by that time there will be enough good games for someone to at least consider buying one.

Also I was referring to the fact that cost of making a console "on par" with the other ones might be too costly, then again I'm no analyst so I might be completely wrong.
 
Nintendo had an opportunity with the success of the Wii to be forward thinking for the next gen, there were plenty of lessons to be learned from MS & Sony about online infrastructures, 3rd party relationships and the general state of the gaming industry, yet they invested NOTHING into those aspects.

They could have invested in a comparable platform (to the PS4/One) with the Wii U, yet they thought they could ride on a gimmick again for another generation, while being miles behind technologically with what was in the box.

I find it absurd to see people defending them, when they were literally printing money with the Wii & DS, yet chose to try to go the cheapest way again this gen, banking on a gimmick, again, which statistically was as likely to be successful two times in a row as being struck by lightening twice in a lifetime.

Do people forget when Nintendo platforms were at least comparable to the competition in regards to "power"?


EDIT: edited for clarity.
 
linkofrs said:
Also I was referring to the fact that cost of making a console "on par" with the other ones might be too costly, then again I'm no analyst so I might be completely wrong.
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I haven't seen reports of MS/Sony wanting to lose money on their next consoles. Nintendo however, are losing money on their console.
 
Parapraxis said:
Nintendo had an opportunity with the Wii to be forward thinking, there were plenty of lessons to be learned from MS & Sony about online infrastructures, 3rd party relationships and the general state of the gaming industry, yet they invested NOTHING into those aspects.

They could have invested in a comparable platform (to the PS4/One) with the Wii U, yet they thought they could ride on a gimmick again for another generation, while being miles behind technologically with what was in the box.

I find it absurd to see people defending them, when they were literally printing money with the Wii & DS, yet chose to try to go the cheapest way again this gen, banking on a gimmick, again, which statistically was as likely to be successful two times in a row as being struck by lightening twice in a lifetime.

Do people forget when Nintendo platforms were at least comparable to the competition in regards to "power"?
Click to expand...

Yeah, and they became some of the lowest selling systems for them.
 
IPs will keep you around long enough to figure something out.

Especially if they are million dollar IPs by a legendary creator


But Atari can relate with that... right?
 
Parapraxis said:
Nintendo had an opportunity with the Wii to be forward thinking, there were plenty of lessons to be learned from MS & Sony about online infrastructures, 3rd party relationships and the general state of the gaming industry, yet they invested NOTHING into those aspects.

They could have invested in a comparable platform (to the PS4/One) with the Wii U, yet they thought they could ride on a gimmick again for another generation, while being miles behind technologically with what was in the box.

I find it absurd to see people defending them, when they were literally printing money with the Wii & DS, yet chose to try to go the cheapest way again this gen, banking on a gimmick, again, which statistically was as likely to be successful two times in a row as being struck by lightening twice in a lifetime.

Do people forget when Nintendo platforms were at least comparable to the competition in regards to "power"?
Click to expand...
And I find it slightly ridiculous when people think that a company would go "hmm...we did this power comparable system and it sold poorly....and then we did this underpowered but innovative system and it sold like gangbusters...lets go back and try that first thing again!"

The WiiU suffers from marketing problems, software problems, and arguably even design problems (they "picked the wrong innovation") but I don't think the decision to take that general direction was unfounded.
 
Riki said:
Yeah, and they became some of the lowest selling systems for them.
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Sorry, I think you mis-understood me, with the success of the Wii Nintdendo was in a very good position to make their next console at least on par with MS & Sony.

I understand the confusion when I re-read my post.
 
The Technomancer said:
And I find it slightly ridiculous when people think that a company would go "hmm...we did this power comparable system and it sold poorly....and then we did this underpowered but innovative system and it sold like gangbusters...lets go back and try that first thing again!"

The WiiU suffers from marketing problems, software problems, and arguably even design problems (they "picked the wrong innovation") but I don't think the decision to take that general direction was unfounded.
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I fully agree. There was simply no reason for them to enter that race again. It hadn't served them well in the past.
 
Parapraxis said:
Sorry, I think you mis-understood me, with the success of the Wii Nintdendo was in a very good position to make their next console at least on par with MS & Sony.

I understand the confusion when I re-read my post.
Click to expand...

What we're saying is "why would they want to?" If you're in charge of a company and you look at the sales and revenue of the Gamecube and the sales and revenue of the Wii, which strategy would you be more likely to try and replicate?
 
JordanN said:
I haven't seen reports of MS/Sony wanting to lose money on their next consoles. Nintendo however, is losing money on their console.
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But, who says they won't all lose money on their console sales, If Nintendo is already losing money selling their console alone, think of how much money sony and microsoft will be losing on their console sales alone. The PS4's price point is only 100$ more then the wii u and I think everyone is all pretty sure the PS4 is has more expensive parts.
 
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