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Nintendo doesn't have exclusive rights to the MotionPlus tech...
- Thread starter Guybrush Threepwood
- Start date
agrajag said:
No, gryroscopes do not track position. A gyroscope and accelerometer used in tandem can be used to track motion relative to a starting position with a relatively low degree of accuracy - that is, the recorded position will drift further and further from the actual until the start position is reset.
The IR is the Wii Remote's method of initializing and recalibrating the start position. All three major input components - IR, accelerometers, and gyroscope - are integral to this motion tracking method.
A gyroscope measures tilt, right? So with the MotionPlus, they can stop using the accelerometers to measure tilt, which is crappy and unreliable and can't use the Z axis. Instead, the gyroscope will measure tilt, and then they can use the accelerometers to tell it which direction to move, and have it offset gravity based on which direction the gyroscope says is down.TwinIonEngines said:
Though to be honest, I'm not entirely certain of how gyros work and what they measure, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, from what I've seen, it may not be perfect, but it should work, definitely better than the Wiimote does. Especially if they have the option to recalibrate in the menu, or do it while playing the game. Like when you save your game, say, "Saving completed. Click OK to continue," and recalibrate when the player clicks OK.
KevinCow said:
That's pretty much on the mark - there's no difference between the acceleration caused by linear motion and the acceleration caused by gravity, so to do linear motion tracking you need a way to remove the effect of gravity from the acceleration data - hence the gyroscope.
KevinCow said:
Recalibration can happen at any time the remote can see the sensor bar, and will need to happen fairly frequently in order to keep the tracked position in correspondence with the actual.
Black-Wind
Member
No, nintendo said them selves that they have been working on this sence Wii's release.Evilink said:
And the tech WAS there. . .BUT it would kill your power after 8-9 hours, was much buffer/ larger and, oh yea, it was fucking costly to make and sell before now.
And this is old news. . . the tech used in M+ can be used for things other than gaming seeing as the tech is used for other things right now. This is a big deal IMO. . . it's a cheap and easy to make version of whats in GPS things and such.
Sony and Msoft don't have to be the "other companies" seeing as I can see lots of other companies wanting his for their services.
Meesh
Member
Black-Wind said:
Of course they're going to say that, standard PR damage control BS. Why admit a flaw in their much coveted remote, that's not good business, at least they had their wits about them to leave a port in the remote....by the way, I still think works pretty good under the circumstances.
Incidentally, Perrin Kaplan was first quoted(before launch) as saying "Wii is about 2X more powerful than GC." Nintendo later retracted this statement claiming it as false but we all know it was the frigg'n TRUTH all along.
Again, damage control.
No shit...that's what I'm saying, It WAS there. Reading comprehension? Costly, sure, but I'm not the only one who thinks they should have launched with a controller that supported the hype proceeding it. Don't be selling me a $45 mote, $25 nunchuck, then $$$ for M+ and then X4 for a large family like mine....and back peddle, claiming we're doing all we can to make this experience the best there is to offer.
And yeah, this is old news, it's also a big deal in that the app isn't limited to gaming, I agree. Problem?
Sony may have the GamesIndustry rumored break-a-part controller in the works.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sony-working-on-break-apart-motion-ps3-pad
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sony-working-on-break-apart-motion-ps3-pad
TwinIonEngine said:
That was a big question when we learn MotionPlus would work with the sensor bar. It could be cumbersome to have point to the sensor bar to recalibrate position very often. I would prefer a method in which the absolute position was something not generated by the player pointing at the sensor bar. How much the accuracy can keep high with an inicial absolute point? I mean let to know to the system, where I´m playing without modifing my position too much?
Black-Wind
Member
Yea, if I remember correctly they stated that the port can allow for add ons later when they revealed it.Evilink said:
Who give a fuck about that?
No, we are saying different things. IM saying that the TECH was there, that the crap that makes this thing go was there. But what m+ is, today, wasn't. The model wasn't what it is today. The parts used to make this cheaper wasn't there at release. They would have built this into the WiiMote had the tech been what it is today back than.
In other words, gyroscope tech was there back than. . . but it couldn't be a reasonable part of the WiiMote until recently now that they have a parner that can make this a true produce thats affordable, small and less power draining.
(and yes, gyroscope tech is costly even today. Nintendo must have fond a good parner in InvenSense.
http://www.videogamer.com/wii/tiger_woods_09/preview-1120.html
"I think it could revolutionise video games in general. Im surprised that Nintendo is able to make it affordable. A gyroscope is an expensive piece of equipment, so they must have a good partner working with them. We were discussing what it would take to get a really real swing, and they were like, well youd need a gyroscope. I did some research on my own, and gyroscopes are pricey. EA isnt in the business of creating peripherals, but its something we toyed with a little bit. I say leave it to the people like Nintendo. They know what theyre doing." )
Well too bad. If you and a few others wanted a $60-$80 Wiimote and $20 N-C that lasted 8-9 hours long (just for Nintendo to back peddle some more down the Line to release a cheaper/ smaller WiiMote with much less power suckage) than I can see why you would be mad that this wasn't in back than.
Making the WiiMote a power sucking (8-9 hours. . .), costly/ bucky produce just for the shack of 1:1 at release would have hurt Nintendo's chances of success with the Wii. I would NOT want that WiiMote at release and no one would have wanted to buy all of those WiiMotes for their friends and family.
No prob.
POWERSPHERE
Member
btkadams said:
I think you should stop putting so much stuff behind you...
The reason for M+ is the same reason for all Nintendo's peripherals this generation. Because EAD (and maybe also Retro) wanted it for their 2nd generation Wii titles to do stuff that they couldn't do with the standard Wiimote. All of the teams at EAD are making new Wii software, the ones that we do know of will be released soon (Animal Crossing and Wii Music), and these are still 1st generation Wii titles that are long in development. That leaves a shitload of teams making the next wave of killer apps (new Zelda, Mario, Pikmin 3 etc) that are busy working on 2nd generation Wii games.
It's nice and all that some think it's because "it was obviously needed" and it "fixed" the wiimote because it's was apparently "flawed as hell" for not doing 1:1 at launch for a mainstream pricepoint and powerconsumption and normal size, but that's just not true. Even the standard wiimote is still good for what it is when it was made 2 years ago, the Wii and everything is incredible succesfull. Apparently the enduser doesn't think "Fuck that shit, it doesn't do true 1:1?! Well no sell then" There is no real need for anything, not for the Balance Board or MotionPlus (they won't probably even bundle it with every Wii when it's released but instead with software and seperate retail release). But if you spend 5 seconds looking at what Nintendo has been trying to do this generation instead of plotting conspiracy theories, you would understand that it's just a means to give an expanded/new experience to the enduser (because otherwise they could get bored easily/quickly if there are not new proposals to keep them entertained). This time it's a device so general (because probably multiple EAD teams worked together instead of 1 with say, the Balance Board or WiiSpeak/Wii Zapper), that it has become an small add-on that can give a better/newer experience to the majority of future Wii titles theoreticly speaking (if 3rd parties will really embrace it).
It's nice and all that some think it's because "it was obviously needed" and it "fixed" the wiimote because it's was apparently "flawed as hell" for not doing 1:1 at launch for a mainstream pricepoint and powerconsumption and normal size, but that's just not true. Even the standard wiimote is still good for what it is when it was made 2 years ago, the Wii and everything is incredible succesfull. Apparently the enduser doesn't think "Fuck that shit, it doesn't do true 1:1?! Well no sell then" There is no real need for anything, not for the Balance Board or MotionPlus (they won't probably even bundle it with every Wii when it's released but instead with software and seperate retail release). But if you spend 5 seconds looking at what Nintendo has been trying to do this generation instead of plotting conspiracy theories, you would understand that it's just a means to give an expanded/new experience to the enduser (because otherwise they could get bored easily/quickly if there are not new proposals to keep them entertained). This time it's a device so general (because probably multiple EAD teams worked together instead of 1 with say, the Balance Board or WiiSpeak/Wii Zapper), that it has become an small add-on that can give a better/newer experience to the majority of future Wii titles theoreticly speaking (if 3rd parties will really embrace it).
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Did Nintendo release prices and battery drain statistics for the Motion+ addon yet?Black-Wind said:
Just a question in regards to Motion+, does the M+ need the normal Wii remote to function correctly or could it physically do the 1:1 motion on its own?
I know it physically has to be connected to a Wii remote, but looking at it from a technical point of view, could the M+ do the same job but attached to another device? (Socket on the 360 or PS3 pad for instance)
@Mods, please don't ban me for asking about the technical possibilities of Motion+ on another device.
I know it physically has to be connected to a Wii remote, but looking at it from a technical point of view, could the M+ do the same job but attached to another device? (Socket on the 360 or PS3 pad for instance)
@Mods, please don't ban me for asking about the technical possibilities of Motion+ on another device.
Raide said:
For real 1:1 the system needs read your relative position while playing, thats why M+ works with the sensor bar, in fact you need calibrate a game before playing (let the system know your position through the sensor bar), so no, M+ needs the sensor bar, thereof the Wiimote IR fuction.
Meesh
Member
Black-Wind said:
I'm saying, just because they say it couldn't be implemented before, doesn't mean it's the truth, I thought It was obvious.
And I'm saying, you don't know what M+ was today couldn't have been utilized before. You only know what they tell you, if you really care to take that at face value.
Again, who's to say? I maintain being that the Wii was still very much a test product based on DSs success, they only included what they felt would be adequate to provide a different experience without suffering any real profit losses. Of course, now that the Wii is very successful, "let's add what we really wanted all along." They can't lose now.
If they could partner a mutual agreement with gyroscope tech, they could have done so in regards M+...all the kinks about batteries not lasting over 8-9 hours should've been fixed (if that argument ever really mattered) if they've been working on Wii since early GC life. I don't know if you remember, but there were rumors about a new peripheral in existence for GC (Euro GC mag.) and was supposed to show at an E3...this never happened, very well could've been gyroscopic controls..we'll never know.
Point is, it's reasonable to believe M+ was well in development all along, but they wanted to be dead certain the pains to add it wouldn't be in vain. Nintendo makes money, that's what they do, and anything that'll reduce their more that lucrative profits will be set aside.
Again, what do you know about the battery life that could have been??? And second, money aside, the experience/control quality matter more to me than an $80 remote...but try selling your $80 controller to the casual set or grey hairs, think they'll understand? No fucking chance.
In other words, release a controller that's not too pricey for everyone, not too intimidating cost wise so we can tap into that "blue ocean" market...then release the hard core version and still keep everyone happy, or so they think...
See above.