Support NeoGAF

[Deleted member 752119]

Obviously if you aren't into Zelda, it's a bummer. If you are into Zelda, this is exciting. They are having extensive demos (their own words here) and a FULL DAY of streaming the game. You simply aren't doing that if you plan to spoil the whole game - you're able to do that because the game is absolutely massive, where looking at it for even 14 hours only scratches the surface. This all but ensures this is the longest and largest Zelda game to date.

If you love Zelda and can attend E3, this is like a dream come true. You get an entire massive event dedicated to the game you want. This is unprecedented. No major publisher has ever done this before, and Zelda is the game getting this star treatment. Exciting.

But if Zelda isn't your thing, this kind of sucks. The only hope here is that the NX reveal is a home run with hardware and then a huge home run with the launch lineup and first year lineup. Not just Zelda, but 3D Mario, metroid, pikmin 4, animal crossing NX, massive third party support, etc.

Even as a big Zelda fan this is super lame.

Zelda is always a day one game for me. I don't care to see a bunch of footage or play before launch as I don't want to spoil anything.

And here I care even less as they're just showing the Wii U version when I, and presumably most, are more interested in the NX version.

 

[SunBroDave]

It means that you need to overhaul your planing strategy, because missing the biggest media event in your medium is a huge waste of opportunity.

.

 

[donutzsick]

Nintendo is seriously the biggest joke. I'm glad p5 will be at e3 though, more than makes up for any potential Nintendo news

 

[CronoShot]

What if you don't have something that's ready to be shown in that exact week?

Then you have a console that's due out in 9 months for which you have nothing ready to show.

 

[BGBW]

Are you telling me 9 months before a whole new console launches and you only have 1 game to show!

Actually it's over 3 years since the console launched and they are showing one game.

 

[Toxi]

are they high selling games? Doesn't matter if they sold more or less than Zelda, and to be fair, some of them did, so reading ''they wish they sold on the scale of Zelda games'' is hilarious. are they high quality? Yes. ''janky'' seems the new cute buzzword for clueless people who enjoy irrational cynicism towards those games but that's not quite true. are they large? I'd say so. so regardless of the comparison being silly (it is), those points are still valid.

Janky in this case means often glitchy and suffering from technical issues or baffling mechanical design. For example, Dark Souls 3 has a poise stat that currently does literally nothing. There is a ring that raises your poise that does literally nothing. That's janky.

I'd still rather play Dark Souls 3 than any Zelda game.

 

[Sleight of Jam]

So it's clear that the people at Nintendo do not learn from their mistakes.

 

[Anth0ny]

nintendo's lessened presence at e3 leads me to believe e3 is more important than ever

at this point, the opposite of what nintendo does is probably the best thing you could do from a business perspective

 

[MarkMclovin]

But they clearly have nothing to show, and that's the bigger problem.

Not showing something doesn't mean they don't have anything.

I would bet that a few games are at least half way made and the hardware is probably coming close to being finalised. Giving a boring spec sheet on the hardware and maybe a 1 minute montage of what has already been developed would go down pretty well at this E3 and would steal quite a bit of light from the competition.

 

[Instro]

Activision simply moved their game to Sony's booth. EA might have dropped out of the E3 institution, but they still clearly focus in being part of the event. They still have a conference and are going to be associated with E3 by viewers worldwide. The event is more important than the building. Last year we had 3 new conferences. PC and Bethesda already confirmed to return.

Sorry, the ,,E3 losing relevance" narrative doesn't make sense outside of Nintendo's bubble. It's only Nintendo losing relevance.

Taketwo is supposed be showing up big this year as well iirc.

Not surprised that this is all they are doing after the statements from Kimishima. Hopefully whatever they do for the NX reveal is a very big event. Just a direct for hardware reveal would be terrible.

 

[Menitta]

Like you know anything, chill. Lets see it at e3 how it look since you know all that

He's right though. This particular delay is very clearly to be in line with the NX. If it was originally announced for Holiday 2016, then I'd say otherwise but it's been delayed twice now, and this is just a few months.

 

[Rodin]

I've always thought that the core method of interaction and gameplay is how titles should be compared, yes. That's how genres are formed or should be formed.

And nothing alike? I told you how they're alike. If you don't understand what's going on with that I can't help you. What genres would you put them in if not third-person action-adventure? What titles would you compare them to?

As a long-term Zelda fan the first time I played Demon's Souls way back on release my first thought was that it reminded me of a grown up, super-dark Zelda game.

As a long-term Zelda fan, the first time i played Demon's Souls (D1 of the EUR release) the Zelda series didn't even come up to me, and that's because the very core gameplay you mentioned is entirely different. DS felt more like a particular take on the action rpg , where you progress area after area by beating enemies and bosses, and unlocking shortcuts (especially near bosses) to avoid doing the same path over and over again. The game is largely based on combat and improving your stats based on how you play, your class etc.

Zelda has none of these. It's an open world adventure series based on environmental puzzles more than combat (actually, even combat has that puzzle-y flavour, in how enemies have different patterns and weaknesses that you need to exploit through items more than waiting for the flaw in their combo like in Souls games), where you gain new items to progress in your journey in a non linear way, and where exploration happens in large areas in which you do subquests or find the path to the next dungeon. The games i would compare it to are more stuff... actually inspired by it, like the first Soul Reaver, Blood Omen 2 (to a degree) and Darksiders, which are all classic adventures titles with a open ended hub connected to areas and dungeons, where you acquire items/skills to progress, etc. Even Metroid Prime would be a better comparison, mostly for the same reasons, so as you see the fact that you use a sword has little to do with how similar two games are. Also the only non-linear Souls game is Dark 1, and even that feels completely different than Zelda, for these exact reasons. I would even compare the Nintendo series to Skyrim and The Witcher before i think about the Souls games, and that's saying something because they're still very different. But at least you can already see how the new title seems to be headed more in that direction than in what the Souls are doing.

The souls games are action-RPG while Zelda is a series where the central gameplay hook is environmental interaction through the use of items.

In SS they added lite RPG elements like collecting materials and using them to upgrade items, but that is the result of market trends dictating design and imo doesn't belong in Zelda. The franchise should focus on organic progression systems, not levels and skill trees. Zelda is about bombing a cracked wall to reveal a lava flow, which raises objects to a higher plane and thus you can use them as platforms to reach a new location.

Pretty much, yeah.

The first two Dark Souls games sold a combined 8 million copies.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword sold 3.67 million.

Why are you comparing the lowest selling Zelda (and with not updated figures iirc) that came out on a dead console against two souls games on many different platforms...?

So, what happened last minute? Because something happened at the very last minute and forced a change of plans.

Maybe that AMD fuck up is true after all? Lmao

As a Zelda fan, this is a bummer since they will be spoiling the hell out of the game.

Not necessarily. They can have a demo about the open world exploration and subquests, one that shows a piece of a dungeon and a story trailer. Something like that would hardly spoil anything major, especially for such a big game.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Yes, they showed killzone in February.

Ok and Zelda is being shown. It's pretty much Zelda NX

Nintendo isn't even revealing it, let alone showing off games.

Then my point has been proven. You can't say say why Nintendo isn't showing games when MS didn't 6 months prior to launch.

You can't keep saying "omg they're doomed and the NX reveals in 9 months" when MS didn't reveal the X1 until 6 months prior to its launch.

 

[MisterR]

Yeah, people keep saying that (what you quoted) in Nintendo threads as if saying it enough times will make it true. If anything, Bethesda have their own conference now, adding another player to the e3 game. Last year's e3 was a huge deal across media thanks to sony's "year of dreams" thing. I don't see e3 going away.

They are shitting on E3, because it's a good way to deflect and avoid having to shit on Nintendo in any way.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Obviously if you aren't into Zelda, it's a bummer. If you are into Zelda, this is exciting.

I'm into Zelda and this is very disappointing.

 

[Stairouais]

Nintendo isn't even revealing it, let alone showing off games.

Not only that, but we knew more or less what the ps4 and the XB1 were before their reveal.
9 months before supposed launch (this will never happen), nobody got a fucking clue what the thing is. So much that I seriously do question its existence.

 

[what-ok]

Ok and Zelda is being shown. It's pretty much Zelda NX


No really unless the NX is a WiiU, tech wise. )=

 

[Mpl90]

That's why I said that the most reasonable explanation is that they did want to reveal NX at this E3 but something happened with it and it's in no state to be shown. So they had this emergency replacement of showing Zelda instead because they already rented the space. Which doesn't make sense either, as they show the Wii U version while they already announced the NX version which will be practically the flagship of their NX reveal, I assume. So yeah, something went terribly wrong.

Surely something happened, there are way too many hints the original release was going to be this year, and probably they had a major NX presentation in mind. But I don't believe there are such insane problems for the software that they couldn't show anything at all already at E3; otherwise, we wouldn't have a release for March 2017 already, around 3-4 months after the supposed original date. It doesn't make sense at all. And we know about SDKs getting distributed to "key partners" at least since last October, and we have Square/Namco/Koei among those "key partners" for sure, at least (I mean at least because we have statements / good hints for them), plus a schedule for a broader distribution of dev kits. Not even talking about how some third parties had talks even before E3 2015 for the platform. So, technically, given the amount of the delay, I'd say it's nearly impossible that, while something must have happened that changed their plans, that something was so brutal that they can't even show trailers of NX games, or have playable builds with, at least, some of their own titles. IMHO, there's another reason, like...the scheduling. Basically, they really want to keep everything secret as much as possible, and to unveil the thing + games in a fixed amount of months, due to how they were already planning the after-reveal advertising machine and all that. So, I suppose that, with NX now "delayed", all that scheduling has been delayed as well. Now, the event they had in mind at E3 is delayed too. ...Or maybe there was going to be an event before E3. I mean, don't forget how Orgen implied, more than one month ago, how we would've known more about NX before E3. It's entirely plausible he got told about the investor briefing basically, but what if that event was something different, and that was going to happen before E3? With all their booths dedicated to NX at E3, after the first unveiling? That would make sense as well, I assume.

Anyway, again, I find it completely implausible that they were in such a state they couldn't show / have playable builds for anything at all when the console releases 3-4 months later than when we all supposed it was going to be out (with several solid hints on the matter).

 

[cheesekao]

Well March is 9 months from June. Sony revealed the PS4 in February and it released in November which was 9 months later. Did they show off games in February. MS revealed the X1 in May, did they show off a lot of games?

I'm not in their offices to know what's going on, but if they feel like their not fully ready and what to reveal the NX in its own event then why are you so mad? The NX doesn't release until March so why are you mad if they show it at E3 or a few months later?

First of all, you need to check what mad means.

Secondly, Sony showed Infamous SS, Deep Down, Killzone, Diablo 3 and Driveclub off the top of my head.

Thirdly, reread my previous post. Why do I want them to show more stuff at E3? To get more eyes on them and make people anticipate the full NX event. Nintendo needs all the positive publicity they can get.

 

[Kinsei]

Obviously if you aren't into Zelda, it's a bummer. If you are into Zelda, this is exciting. They are having extensive demos (their own words here) and a FULL DAY of streaming the game. You simply aren't doing that if you plan to spoil the whole game - you're able to do that because the game is absolutely massive, where looking at it for even 14 hours only scratches the surface. This all but ensures this is the longest and largest Zelda game to date.

You're kidding yourself if you think this will only be scratching the surface. We'll see a large chunk of the game with massive spoilers and then when the game finally comes out people will be disappointed. It'll be Brawl all over again.

 

[sora87]

Nintendo in total don't give a fuck mode.
Wii U support this year? Nah.
Direct to hype our next console which certainly needs every ounce of coverage given what's happened the past few years? Nah.
Games? Nah, just 1.
Effort? Lol.

 

[SerTapTap]

In b4 Zelda has a funny control scheme like Starfox. That would explain the fact that they are giving MASSIVE amounts of time with it to everyone: to avoid the "yeah it plays like shit" impressions starfox left last e3.

I doubt it. People still think Star Fox Zero plays like shit after playing the full release. There's zero way they'd try something so experimental with Zelda for better or worse. At most it would be gyro for aiming only like in WWHD. I can't even imagine how you'd implement something as weird as SFZ's camera into Zelda without being deliberately stupid like turning Link's head with the gamepad.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

He's right though. This particular delay is very clearly to be in line with the NX. If it was originally announced for Holiday 2016, then I'd say otherwise but it's been delayed twice now, and this is just a few months.

I dont care about it aligning with NX, the fact that Nintendo dont know what they are doing. Maybe I'm naive and stupid but I think they actually know what they are doing that's why its taking so long to see a damn thing.

 

[Jonny Rizzo]

At this point why even have floor space at E3. Nintendo could literally do this Zelda event almost anywhere else in the world, get more publicity and not have to worry about fighting for attention against the rest of the exhibitors at E3. It makes more sense to control your own venue and schedule a time that works best to fit the product you want to show. They could even open the event to public, charge admission/sell merchandise, and actually make a profit. Where as at E3 you are just dumping money into marketing and floor space all so you can pander to the press and people on the Internet in hopes that coverage will eventually equal sale of a future product.

Seriously...What a dumb situation for Nintendo to purposefully put themselves in.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

It means that you need to overhaul your planing strategy, because missing the biggest media event in your medium is a huge waste of opportunity.

Which is exactly what they've done.

Again, they've refocused their entire company after the Wii U failed. Dozens of studios, thousands of employees, millions in R&D and a complete change in direction in how the company operates, but shit! they didn't have this new phase of their entire company's existence ready to show you by July 2016! Well they fucked it all up!

 

[ironcreed]

You'd think they'd at least want to get the NX hype started with more of the general public. Even if it's just some 'not final' details.

Just show something for Christ Sake.

Exaclty. They could show us what it is going to be, maybe what it is going to look like and some trailers for the games that they are working on. To just skip out in order to instead preach to the choir at some Direct or special event later on is just so backwards.

Sorry, I just can't see that approach helping them, when everyone will be gearing up for all of the releases this holiday season. March will be the hangover period after most people are done buying for awhile and they will miss the boat yet again.

 

[SunBroDave]

Obviously if you aren't a Nintendo fanboy, it's a bummer. If you are a Nintendo fanboy, this is exciting.

ftfy. I love Nintendo, but cmon, this is a very bad sign of where Nintendo is at right now.

 

[MilesTeg]

Sounds like Zelda is ready to go but NX isnt. This is honestly pretty insulting to fans. The only game they show is an NX launch title which would have released this year otherwise. I hope there is some misunderstanding here as leaving 3DS out is bizarre.

 

[Kouriozan]

Obviously if you aren't into Zelda, it's a bummer. If you are into Zelda, this is exciting.

I'm into Zelda and not looking forward to see people spoil the game for a day.

 

[Calamari41]

Why are you comparing the lowest selling Zelda (and with not updated figures iirc) that came out on a dead console against two souls games on many different platforms...?

Not to speak for him, but Skyward Sword is the only mainline Zelda game we've had in the past 9 years.

And again, my original point was comparing output of studios. And it wasn't to disparage the Zelda team or say that Zelda needs to be Souls. Nintendo needs to figure out a way to get mainline Zelda games out without six years in between releases. That's all. I used Souls as a comparison because they are large, highly acclaimed, and high selling games that From has managed to get out (on many different platforms, as you said) in good time and while maintaining high quality and large scale.

 

[Ansatz]

You're kidding yourself if you think this will only be scratching the surface

I think so too, it'll be like the Xenoblade X segment in terms of playing the final-ish version of the first two hours of the game, i.e. not a series of segmented demos. I'm probably only going to watch the main trailer.

 

[Sergiepoo]

Even as a huge Zelda fan, I'm not going to let Nintendo spoil me on hours worth of gameplay footage. This is just as much a disservice to Zelda fans as Nintendo fans in general.

 

[DragonSworne]

The new gameplay mechanics is probably cell phone related. 100%.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Nothing gets people excited for new hardware like show how little of a shit you give about the last ones you released for the last couple of years of their lives!

Seriously, no matter how amazing the NX reveal is, if it's sandwiched between months of barren release schedules and just ignoring even their most ardent fans, there's just going to be no hype for it.

They're really pretty much just fucking themselves over before release with this kind of bullocks.

 

[big_erk]

Space World 2016 hype.

This would really be cool. I just have no confidence that Nintendo would do it. You know, because it makes so much sense.

 

[21XX]

I would much rather they show nothing of Zelda until the NX version. I don't want to see hours and hours of a game for a system that has done little but death rattled for months and months.

It also bums me out that the NX version will most likely not take advantage of the guts of the system. I'm sure there will be touch stuff all over the place, but we're going to get Wii U graphics. Neat.

 

[what-ok]

Even as a huge Zelda fan, I'm not going to let Nintendo spoil me on hours worth of gameplay footage. This is just as much a disservice to Zelda fans as Nintendo fans in general.

This.

 

[MisterR]

Nintendo in total don't give a fuck mode.
Wii U support this year? Nah.
Direct to hype our next console which certainly needs every ounce of coverage given what's happened the past few years? Nah.
Games? Nah, just 1.
Effort? Lol.

How often have we seen a company basically write off a year? They are basically saying, we have nothing for 2016.

 

[Menitta]

I dont care about it aligning with NX, the fact that Nintendo dont know what they are doing. Maybe I'm naive and stupid but I think they actually know what they are doing that's why its taking so long to see a damn thing.

What I'm saying is that this delay is in no way to polish up the game.

 

[Freeman]

Somehow some people are going to find a way to spin this and declare Nintendo the winner of E3 whit its inovative no show strategy.

 

[Evilkazzz]

So we can basically consider this the final nail in the Wii U's coffin right?

I'd had held out hope that despite Zelda being the only playable game (that comes out next year no less) there'd be a direct that would show us 1 or 2 more Wii U games for 2016 to cap it off with a sort of bang. Guess all we have now is Paper Mario and #FE.

2016 isn't going to be a good year for Wii U owners. 3DS owners sure, but Wii U is really dead, and we have almost a year until we can even buy the next console.

 

[_PsiFire_]

lol I admire your faith in Nintendo

How does this have anything to do with faith at this point? They said they would show the NX later...how does that translate to, "we fucked up with the NX and can't show anything because we don't have anything."

 

[CronoShot]

Not only that, but we knew more or less what the ps4 and the XB1 were before their reveal.
9 months before supposed launch (this will never happen), nobody got a fucking clue what the thing is. So much that I seriously do question its existence.

At this point, there is absolutely zero chance it makes a March release.

Nintendo likely just said it to fit it into their fiscal year to prevent their investors from going nuts over how shit this year will be for them.

Remember, the 3DS came out in March, yet we still got a huge blowout the E3 prior. Even then, not much was ready for it at launch. The current silence speaks volumes for how prepared they are for NX.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

Then you have a console that's due out in 9 months for which you have nothing ready to show.

There's a difference between Nintendo having nothing that could be shown and Nintendo deciding that June 2016 isn't the time to show what they have.

 

[ieptbarakat]

I'm into Zelda but Treehouse streams do nothing for me.

 

[ironcreed]

Nintendo in total don't give a fuck mode.
Wii U support this year? Nah.
Direct to hype our next console which certainly needs every ounce of coverage given what's happened the past few years? Nah.
Games? Nah, just 1.
Effort? Lol.

I mean, it is what it is. That's it, lol.

 

[Dynasty8]

Sometimes I wonder if Nintendo is even apart of the games industry anymore.

 

[OnionPowder]

From makes janky games with great mechanics, the games are meant to be run through repeatedly, and they wish they sold on the scale Zelda games did. Not to mention how different the gameplay is, where Zelda focused more on everything else besides combat. Just a bad comparison all around.

This too.

With the sales data we have, Dark Souls 1 has only been outsold by 3 Zelda games out of 16 releases.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Somehow some people are going to find a way to spin this and declare Nintendo the winner of E3 whit its inovative no show strategy.

They are gonna make people miss them so they realize Nintendo is needed in this industry.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

I really don't get it.

What about Paper Mario and that Shin Megami X FE game? I mean i don't care one bit for these games, but plenty of people do.....what gives?