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Nintendo FY14 Q1: 0.82M 3DS, 0.51M Wii U, MK8 2.82M shipped, 10 billion yen loss

Fourth Storm

Member
Feb 17, 2006
6,713
0
1,040
They've been trying Chinese expansion ever since they created their IQUE subsidiary. They tried to sell a custom N64, NDS, DSi, and 3DS down there under the Ique brand. I don't think it has been successful by any means.
I'm aware, but those were pretty limited as far as the number of games. From recent statements, Iwata seems to be looking into more appropriate pricing and a whole new console crafted to the unique culture of the market, rather than modified versions of older consoles.

Very vague statements and it could go either way, but the market in China is obviously a different place now than it was a few years back and Nintendo seem to be taking an entirely different approach.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
"The skies may look gray now, but the company does have some prospects for the next couple of years."
Seems to imply things could be better in the [next] couple of years....

That is closer to my point.

From my point of view things still look grey even in 2 year, because nothing you mentioned seems to fix the fact the company is losing marketshare in the console/handheld market at gigantic steps...

And I'm deducing from what Iwata said in every meeting for the last year. They don't want to people value of their games drop, so they're gonna be very careful about that...
I'm not sure how you think none of that are positive steps. I am highly critical of the company, but those are things that I do agree have potential. I will say that if digital subscriptions (Star Fox U) and free to play (Steel Diver Subwars) are a viable platform for Nintendo to develop and release non-Mario/Pokemon franchises. Then I am all for it. I think it makes sense to hone in on the smaller hardcore community, in a means that could financially uphold those hardcore franchises.
 

veritassin

Banned
May 19, 2014
251
0
0
Pretty much this and this year they have Smash Bros which sells consoles, and so far Hyrule Warriors being such a Zelda celebration to fans from any generation is showing up like its going to do quite well for itself even if it isn't another MK8.

Nintendo has a better software lineup this year. Its picking up.
I'm not sure why people are so optimistic about Hyrule Warriors. It's not a Zelda game. It might get some Zelda fans to buy it just because there are zelda characters in it, but I'm not so sure it will get that many to buy in.
 

Balb

Member
Dec 14, 2007
6,487
0
760
Pretty much this and this year they have Smash Bros which sells consoles, and so far Hyrule Warriors being such a Zelda celebration to fans from any generation is showing up like its going to do quite well for itself even if it isn't another MK8.

Nintendo has a better software lineup this year. Its picking up.
The problem is that they don't have much to fill between the big releases. Sure, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. are huge games but what about the rest of their lineup? The problem is that they follow up their big releases with...nothing. Pretty much nothing has come out since MK8. There's no sense of a momentum because the output simply isn't there.

It's to the point where they have to flesh out their holiday lineup with games like NES Remix Collection and Captain Toad to mask how sparse the lineup is. I know it's been over a decade since they were dealt but they really need a company like Rare to flesh out their lineup.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Seems to imply things could be better in the [next] couple of years....

That is closer to my point.



I'm not sure how you think none of that are positive steps. I am highly critical of the company, but those are things that I do agree have potential.
They are positive steps, still I don't think it will fix any of the fundamental problems they have in their core products: handheld and console.

Unless they plan to escape from those two markets in the long term with QoL.

I'm not sure why people are so optimistic about Hyrule Warriors. It's not a Zelda game. It might get some Zelda fans to buy it just because there are zelda characters in it, but I'm not so sure it will get that many to buy in.
People seems to forget we are still talking about a dinasty warriors game, which may have it's share of fans, but is not exactly a console seller IP...
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
It's to the point where they have to flesh out their holiday lineup with games like NES Remix Collection and Captain Toad to mask how sparse the lineup is. I know it's been over a decade since they were dealt but they really need a company like Rare to flesh out the lineup.
One big reason is that they are doing their entire Kyoto R&D restructure during the Summer which affects about 70% of their internal R&D. This certainly affects development releases.

Captain Toad and NES Remix Vol1-2 come from their internal Tokyo group.
 

Lkr

Member
Mar 10, 2008
15,761
0
0
You should know why those two aren't at all an apt comparison. Come on. Nintendo is facing legitimate problems with the future of their business. It gets annoying when people wave it off with "Nintendoom" over and over.

If you didn't want to know how dire things were, avoid these threads.
There were rumors during the MS CEO search about shutting down the entire xbox division. Nintendo isn't doing great, but their two systems on the market didn't do any worse than MS had in Q4. Now you can argue that no one was buying a 360 in that timespan, but the xbone isn't setting sales charts on fire
 
Sep 11, 2007
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There were rumors during the MS CEO search about shutting down the entire xbox division. Nintendo isn't doing great, but their two systems on the market didn't do any worse than MS had in Q4. Now you can argue that no one was buying a 360 in that timespan, but the xbone isn't setting sales charts on fire
Xbone may not be setting charts on fire, but it's situation is MUCH better than Wii U, which speaks volume about how BAD is Wii U situation.

Furthermore the reasoning about the shutting down the Xbox division wasn't as simple as just "Xbox division is a failure", which is not right now, they have been making money in the last years.
 

Fourth Storm

Member
Feb 17, 2006
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0
1,040
If anything, Nintendo know the predicament they are in, so they'll be swinging for the fences with their next hardware cycle. Iwata says they've already got the idea. Should be interesting.
 

B.O.O.M

Member
Jan 12, 2012
14,307
0
0
If anything, Nintendo know the predicament they are in, so they'll be swinging for the fences with their next hardware cycle. Iwata says they've already got the idea. Should be interesting.
You don't think they were swinging for the fences in 'this' hardware cycle?
 

heidern

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
2,288
0
1,375
From my point of view things still look grey even in 2 year, because nothing you mentioned seems to fix the fact the company is losing marketshare in the console/handheld market at gigantic steps...
Nintendo's plan regarding consoles/handhelds will revolve around the next hardware of which they've pretty much shown nothing. There won't be a turnaround within the next year or two in the current markets because videogame platforms have a 5+ year life cycle and so Nintendo are stuck with the mistakes they made 5 years ago when they were planning the 3ds/Wii U. QOL/Amiibo/licensing are Iwata's answer to achieving growth more quickly rather than having to wait around for the next videogame platform releases.
 

Fourth Storm

Member
Feb 17, 2006
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You don't think they were swinging for the fences in 'this' hardware cycle?
Not really. I think they just expected many of the Wii and DS owners to carry over via default. Their pricing was out of whack and their launch lineup lacking. I think their Wii U lineup from Fall 2014 through 2015 show a swing into a more positive direction and their talk of a unified OS is exciting.
 

LegendofLex

Member
Aug 21, 2013
9,104
0
0
You don't think they were swinging for the fences in 'this' hardware cycle?
What about this hardware cycle seemed like it was at all targeted at combating disinterest in Nintendo?

edit: I don't even think their software is on the right track. Mario Kart 8, Smash, and Splatoon are probably the most intriguing games on the system right now, and two of those are known quantities.
 

Balb

Member
Dec 14, 2007
6,487
0
760
You don't think they were swinging for the fences in 'this' hardware cycle?
Based on how half-baked a lot of their implementations were on many of the Wii U's unique features (GamePad integration, TVii) it doesn't seem like they were swinging for the fences this time around. At least I hope not.
 

Hiltz

Member
Dec 8, 2007
9,049
0
0
U.S.A.
I thought Nintendo already restructured its in-house teams last year and had staff move into the new seven-story R&D facility in June 2014 but after E3.
 

Team Top Hat

Banned
Mar 31, 2014
1,532
0
0
You don't think they were swinging for the fences in 'this' hardware cycle?
They don't have proper NES VC emulation [it's very dark]. ZERO N64 games. Their whole approach this gen has been absolutely backwards. At the very beginning of the Wii they had everything figured out. Their mission was well written out. This time they just tried whatever they could.
 

Lkr

Member
Mar 10, 2008
15,761
0
0
Xbone may not be setting charts on fire, but it's situation is MUCH better than Wii U, which speaks volume about how BAD is Wii U situation.

Furthermore the reasoning about the shutting down the Xbox division wasn't as simple as just "Xbox division is a failure", which is not right now, they have been making money in the last years.
Xbone is selling better. But 3DS + Wii U is selling better than xbone + 360. Nintendo doesn't have all of the revenue sources that the xbox division has, but their hardware isn't selling any worse.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Nintendo's plan regarding consoles/handhelds will revolve around the next hardware of which they've pretty much shown nothing. There won't be a turnaround within the next year or two in the current markets because videogame platforms have a 5+ year life cycle and so Nintendo are stuck with the mistakes they made 5 years ago when they were planning the 3ds/Wii U. QOL/Amiibo/licensing are Iwata's answer to achieving growth more quickly rather than having to wait around for the next videogame platform releases.
But we aren't 2 years away from the next handheld and everything hinted about pricing structure, they poor attempts at free to play games, digital content and everything is not really looking very good right now.

In one year we'll have 3DS successor here or at least it will have been announced, and the hinted steps they took regarding all these things to stop smartphone domination are laughable at much.

The changes in all these things should happened already, at least in their handheld market, we saw nothing and nothing really implies is gonna be fixed in one year...

Xbone is selling better. But 3DS + Wii U is selling better than xbone + 360. Nintendo doesn't have all of the revenue sources that the xbox division has, but their hardware isn't selling any worse.
That dosn't make much sense, Nintendo does have a handheld, MS dosn't, MS is not competing in that market. A more apt comparisson will be 360 + Xbone and Wii + Wii U....
 

Log4Girlz

Member
May 23, 2006
40,794
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0
Man, the 2DS has really not taken off at all. Unlike previous revisions (e.g. NDSi and DSi XL) which gave the platform a serious shot in the arm, the 2DS shipped only 210,000 units in the past quarter. (That's up from the 90,000 in the previous quarter.)

But consider that the more expensive 3DS XL shipped 520,000 in the same time period that the 2DS shipped 210,000.

I wonder what Nintendo thinks those kinds of sales suggest about what it should be doing in the future, both near term (new revisions) and longer term (new platforms).
The Nintendo sixty-four thousand dollar question
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
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0
Does this number include stuff like Retro Studios and NOA?
The 2004 number was not a good comparison number, and didn't include them. The others do. The document I linked to for 2004 was the Notice of General Meeting of Shareholders, and it listed employees as 1,223. However, the Annual Business Report to Shareholders has two numbers: 1,223 non-consolidated employees, and 2,985 consolidated employees. The consolidated employees is the correct number to use for comparison. The Notice of General Meeting of Shareholders lists 3,013 employees, and specifies that was an increase of 28. So, correcting my earlier post:

2004 - 2,985 employees
2007 - 3,373 employees
2010 - 4,425 employees
2014 - 5,213 employees

Edit: Just noticed Aquamarine posted headcounts back to 2002 here.
 

Shmuely Bully

Member
Jun 2, 2013
1,619
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0
What I take away from this is that even more than Nintendo's hardware sales, their software sales are in the toilet. To put their forecast for the year in perspective it's all of 11 million more units than what Sony managed during the most recent quarter, which historically tends to be the slowest. That is with Mario Kart as well as Pokemon and Smash releasing later this year...

Wii U is a lost cause and Wii was handled so poorly the last few years there is nothing they can do their either, but they need to figure out some way to boost 3DS sales for both hardware and software. The numbers they're forecasting aren't good enough and would represent the third straight year of declining sales even if they meet them, which they may not.

I'm not a Nintendo to go third-party guy, but they need to do something because the longer this continues the weaker the justification for developing and releasing on their own hardware platforms becomes.

i mean jeeze, you state that iwata makes himself head of NoA so it has better oversight. a japanese businessman living and working in japan has a better idea of how to run nintendo in the western world than any number of CEOs born and bred in the western market.
Oh good grief yes, execs thousands of miles away from their customers rarely to never understand the needs or desires of their market.

That same sort of ignorance and arrogance bit Sega in the butt a ton during the 90s and is a big part of the reason why many regional grocers (to take one example) are still able to successfully compete against multi-national corporations. I'd argue that NoA's lack of real authority is a big part of the reason why Nintendo has found themselves so far behind the curve and unable to appeal to most of the U.S. market. The last time NoA wielded real power was during the N64 days and I think the difference in their output since then speaks for itself.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
The 2004 number was not a good comparison number, and didn't include them. The others do. The document I linked to for 2004 was the Notice of General Meeting of Shareholders, and it listed employees as 1,223. However, the Annual Business Report to Shareholders has two numbers: 1,223 non-consolidated employees, and 2,985 consolidated employees. The consolidated employees is the correct number to use for comparison. The Notice of General Meeting of Shareholders lists 3,013 employees, and specifies that was an increase of 28. So, correcting my earlier post:

2004 - 2,985 employees
2007 - 3,373 employees
2010 - 4,425 employees
2014 - 5,213 employees

Edit: Just noticed Aquamarine posted headcounts back to 2002 here.[/here]


As of March 2014.

Nintendo Co., Ltd has has 1,977 employees consolidated. (just internal offices in Japan)
Nintendo Co., Ltd has 5,213 employees employees non-consolidated (internal offices + subsidiaries like NOA, NOE, Retro, NST, NTD, NDCube, NNS, NERD, Monolith, etc.)
Nintendo Co., Ltd has more than 5,213 employees with their affiliate companies like TPC (32%), Genius Sonority (39%), IQUE (50%), Pux Corp (27%), Warpstar Inc (50%). Then you have all their contract developers like SRD, IS, and HAL. It's very deceiving.
 

Team Top Hat

Banned
Mar 31, 2014
1,532
0
0
It really is sad seeing Nintendo like this, but they did it to themselves. The sat on their laurels while riding the success of the Wii. The Wii U came out way too expensive, extremely slow operating system, clunky controls. New Super Mario Bros U didn't even originally support their own Pro Controller. How does that even happen? They have so many areas that they could easily improve upon and rake in the money.

1. eShop pricing is a joke. Sales are little to non-existant on anything that Nintendo publishes. The Wonderful 101 on eShop was 100% higher than the MSRP of the game for months.

2. Virtual Console is an absolute insult. First I have to pay to "upgrade" my game from Wii to Wii U. NES games on Wii U are far beyond worst than on the Wii. They don't even have N64. A almost 20 year old system that seemingly cannot figure out how to get an emulator on; yet it launched the very first day on the Wii. Their releases are extremely sparse. One VC a week is the norm here in North America. Absolutely insane. They are sitting on a gold mine and they don't care at all to do anything with it.

3. They've lost basically every third party outside of Indie. Even if their third party relations was somehow better; I would still ask myself, why buy a third party game on the Wii U when it'll be better on the PS4.

4. They lagged behind software development because HD was too hard for them. They ignored everyone making HD games and didn't prepare themselves for this transformation.

5. They don't have cross buy between 3DS and Wii U. It's an absolute insult to the customer that they are wanting the customer to pay $5 for a NES VC game on 3DS and then pay $5 again to have it on the Wii U. We all know Iwata uses a Mac and an Iphone and he surely knows about cross buy. Android does it. Apple does it. Amazon does it. Sony does it. People are not giving in and are refusing to buy VC games until this is fixed.

6. Their account system is highly archaic. Locking an account to a system is embarrassing. Again, people are not buying their games digitally through Nintendo because of their completely backwards account system. Having to file a police report? Really? REALLY?

7. Their online system is a joke. I can't even talk to my friends while playing Mario Kart.


Nintendo needs to get with the times or they will die. It is truly saddening to see this company fall this low.
 

heidern

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
2,288
0
1,375
In one year we'll have 3DS successor here or at least it will have been announced, and the hinted steps they took regarding all these things to stop smartphone domination are laughable at much.

The changes in all these things should happened already, at least in their handheld market, we saw nothing and nothing really implies is gonna be fixed in one year...
Next year will see the release of the QOL. The next handheld will be 2016 at the earliest so yes it is two years away. When Nintendo unveil their new hardware them you can judge whether it has a chance of increasing sales. Before then, you're just shooting in the dark.
 

watershed

Banned
Mar 12, 2011
19,593
0
0
Next year will see the release of the QOL. The next handheld will be 2016 at the earliest so yes it is two years away. When Nintendo unveil their new hardware them you can judge whether it has a chance of increasing sales. Before then, you're just shooting in the dark.
Nintendo is in such a difficult spot, I could see them try to release 2 new platforms next year. QoL and next gen portable. That or a new 3ds revision model soon. I think Nintendo is realizing that the 3ds isn't gonna be the cash cow they hoped it would be. The install base and software sales just aren't enough, and every quarter they don't act, the more they mind and market share to mobile platforms.
 

veritassin

Banned
May 19, 2014
251
0
0
Next year will see the release of the QOL. The next handheld will be 2016 at the earliest so yes it is two years away. When Nintendo unveil their new hardware them you can judge whether it has a chance of increasing sales. Before then, you're just shooting in the dark.
Can you tell me what QOL is? I don't think it's really hardware at all. It's probably a software platform of some kind.
 

NamikazeBurst

Member
May 20, 2014
4,489
0
0
Canada
1. eShop pricing is a joke. Sales are little to non-existant on anything that Nintendo publishes. The Wonderful 101 on eShop was 100% higher than the MSRP of the game for months.

That isn't true. Nintendo sets the MSRP so how can they price something higher? It is the stores that are pricing lower. Sony and Microsoft do this. Their first party titles from launch are still expensive on theirs stores when I can get them for $20 or less in stores.

They do need to do more sales of their digital only stuff though. I haven't bought HarmoKnight because it hasn't gone on sale once. Same with Pokemon Rumble U.


3. They've lost basically every third party outside of Indie. Even if their third party relations was somehow better; I would still ask myself, why buy a third party game on the Wii U when it'll be better on the PS4.

So you complain about lack of third party support but then say even if they did have it, it wouldn't matter.


6. Their account system is highly archaic. Locking an account to a system is embarrassing. Again, people are not buying their games digitally through Nintendo because of their completely backwards account system. Having to file a police report? Really? REALLY?

You don't need to file a police report. If you are going to complain about something at least keep up to date on it. You can just call them and they will unlink your NNID and you can relink it.
Responses in bold. I agree with everything else.
 

heidern

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
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1,375
Nintendo is in such a difficult spot, I could see them try to release 2 new platforms next year. QoL and next gen portable. That or a new 3ds revision model soon. I think Nintendo is realizing that the 3ds isn't gonna be the cash cow they hoped it would be. The install base and software sales just aren't enough, and every quarter they don't act, the more they mind and market share to mobile platforms.
3DS has an install base of over 40M and the hardware is currently being sold at a profit. It's not going to be a DS like megasuccess but it will turn Nintendo a decent profit when all is said and done. Better to do what they can with it (perhaps hope some software like Yokai Watch/Tomodatchi/Smash etc can help hardware sales) than jumping prematurely into a new handheld with zero install base and higher development costs. A new platform doesn't guarantee success and things could get even worse than they are now.

Can you tell me what QOL is? I don't think it's really hardware at all. It's probably a software platform of some kind.
Iwata has been adamant that Nintendo's strength is hardware/software integration. QOL will be a hardware platform of some kind.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Can you tell me what QOL is? I don't think it's really hardware at all. It's probably a software platform of some kind.
Nintendo has been pretty direct about it. Although the exact details evade us, it's basically Nintendo allocating it's Touch Generations (both existing IPs, and new concepts) away from traditional gamer platforms (console / handheld) and probably selling them as standalone products to consumers.

It's a big reason why Iwata restructured most of their hardware and software teams, in the same building.
 

veritassin

Banned
May 19, 2014
251
0
0
Nintendo has been pretty direct about it. Although the exact details evade us, it's basically Nintendo allocating it's Touch Generations (both existing IPs, and new concepts) away from traditional gamer platforms (console / handheld) and probably selling them as standalone products to consumers.

It's a big reason why Iwata restructured most of their hardware and software teams, in the same building.
Yes Nintendo has been clear about what QOL is, it's not wearable and it's not mobile. Edit: oh yea it's not a console either


Iwata has been adamant that Nintendo's strength is hardware/software integration. QOL will be a hardware platform of some kind.
Yes that is their strength, but that doesn't tell me what QOL is.

I'll elaborate on what I meant by a software platform. What I think QOL will ultimately be will be a series of devices that will all keep track of your physical activity, whether it be walking, running, or playing Nintendo games that require some kind of accessory like Wii Fit. This will all be tracked on your Nintendo account or profile and it'll give you suggestions or other things to do to improve your health (probably selling other Nintendo devices and accessories.)
 

GOGOheadray

Member
Jul 9, 2014
173
0
0
The more I hear Iwata speak the more I believe that the ivory tower that is NOJ is growing ever higher at a rapid pace. To fix the problems of Nintendo they have to realize what those problems are in the first place. IMO one of the big problems that nintendo have is the belief that they are not competing against the other two consoles. This may work in theory but in reality it doesn't. Most console gamers game on a single console for their entire gen. Nintendo in that respect is being held up against what sony and microsoft is bringing and to say that the current and future prospects of the wii u on the software and hardware side is grim is a understatement. Console gamers aren't stupid and by and large know what games they want to be able to play and what systems they will be able to play them on. Can anyone here honestly say that the Wii U will suffice as a main console when its missing many of the games which are staples in the video gaming ecosystem ( COD, maddens, etc.)?

The second problem comes from the fact that Nintendo has instead of reaching out to developers to bring their games to their systems; they have instead doubled down on their philosophy. Nintendo is a extremely static and conservative company who oftentimes seem to be a day late and a dollar short when in comes to big time shifts in gaming ( remember Nintendo statements about online play)? They have also lost the market they are appealing to; kids aren't talking about Mario, or Zelda or any of that other stuff; they are talking about Madden, GTA, they are oftentimes right their on the same servers we are as anyone who has played COD online can attest too. Nintendo's current market is simply a majority of older gamers who have always played Nintendo games and have fond memories of mario, etc. This market however, is shrinking and cannot sustain a console which relies so heavily on them; this is coupled with the problem that a large segment of gamers today didn't grow up with the NES but rather with the PS1 or even PS2; Nintendo franchises by and large mean nothing to this group and the wii u's sales numbers prove that fact as far as I am concerned. The same old same ol will not work any longer question is can nintendo do anything about it before its to late...
 

watershed

Banned
Mar 12, 2011
19,593
0
0
3DS has an install base of over 40M and the hardware is currently being sold at a profit. It's not going to be a DS like megasuccess but it will turn Nintendo a decent profit when all is said and done. Better to do what they can with it (perhaps hope some software like Yokai Watch/Tomodatchi/Smash etc can help hardware sales) than jumping prematurely into a new handheld with zero install base and higher development costs. A new platform doesn't guarantee success and things could get even worse than they are now.
Yes the 3ds is making money for Nintendo, but Nintendo's business isn't just about turning a profit. Sales are down a lot and if they don't do something to spur sales they will only go lower. I think a 3ds revision is just around the corner. I imagine their next-gen portable is gonna be further away so they can finish that development integration stuff.
 

StevieP

Banned
Sep 10, 2006
12,045
0
0
The more I hear Iwata speak the more I believe that the ivory tower that is NOJ is growing ever higher at a rapid pace. To fix the problems of Nintendo they have to realize what those problems are in the first place. IMO one of the big problems that nintendo have is the belief that they are not competing against the other two consoles. This may work in theory but in reality it doesn't. Most console gamers game on a single console for their entire gen. Nintendo in that respect is being held up against what sony and microsoft is bringing and to say that the current and future prospects of the wii u on the software and hardware side is grim is a understatement. Console gamers aren't stupid and by and large know what games they want to be able to play and what systems they will be able to play them on. Can anyone here honestly say that the Wii U will suffice as a main console when its missing many of the games which are staples in the video gaming ecosystem ( COD, maddens, etc.)?

The second problem comes from the fact that Nintendo has instead of reaching out to developers to bring their games to their systems; they have instead doubled down on their philosophy. Nintendo is a extremely static and conservative company who oftentimes seem to be a day late and a dollar short when in comes to big time shifts in gaming ( remember Nintendo statements about online play)? They have also lost the market they are appealing to; kids aren't talking about Mario, or Zelda or any of that other stuff; they are talking about Madden, GTA, they are oftentimes right their on the same servers we are as anyone who has played COD online can attest too. Nintendo's current market is simply a majority of older gamers who have always played Nintendo games and have fond memories of mario, etc. This market however, is shrinking and cannot sustain a console which relies so heavily on them; this is coupled with the problem that a large segment of gamers today didn't grow up with the NES but rather with the PS1 or even PS2; Nintendo franchises by and large mean nothing to this group and the wii u's sales numbers prove that fact as far as I am concerned. The same old same ol will not work any longer question is can nintendo do anything about it before its to late...
The entire console market is shifting - and moving to non-console. I don't think it makes sense for Nintendo (or anyone else) to spend a lot of money on third party support. They should be thinking of the exit strategy: similar to what Sony is doing with it's streaming rentals.
 

AniHawk

Member
Jun 7, 2004
74,679
3
1,595
from what i understand, there's some inner-turmoil at nintendo among the managers. a lot, especially at the board of directors, back iwata. however there's an anti-iwata group that wants to put games on smartphones, and are propping up katsuhito yamauchi (hiroshi yamauchi's first-born son) as iwata's replacement. apparently that would be done to appeal to some sort of tradition that hiroshi yamauchi kinda/sorta broke from when he appointed iwata as the first president outside of the family.

...or something.
 

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Jul 28, 2012
26,651
0
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The more I hear Iwata speak the more I believe that the ivory tower that is NOJ is growing ever higher at a rapid pace. To fix the problems of Nintendo they have to realize what those problems are in the first place. IMO one of the big problems that nintendo have is the belief that they are not competing against the other two consoles. This may work in theory but in reality it doesn't. Most console gamers game on a single console for their entire gen. Nintendo in that respect is being held up against what sony and microsoft is bringing and to say that the current and future prospects of the wii u on the software and hardware side is grim is a understatement. Console gamers aren't stupid and by and large know what games they want to be able to play and what systems they will be able to play them on. Can anyone here honestly say that the Wii U will suffice as a main console when its missing many of the games which are staples in the video gaming ecosystem ( COD, maddens, etc.)?

The second problem comes from the fact that Nintendo has instead of reaching out to developers to bring their games to their systems; they have instead doubled down on their philosophy. Nintendo is a extremely static and conservative company who oftentimes seem to be a day late and a dollar short when in comes to big time shifts in gaming ( remember Nintendo statements about online play)? They have also lost the market they are appealing to; kids aren't talking about Mario, or Zelda or any of that other stuff; they are talking about Madden, GTA, they are oftentimes right their on the same servers we are as anyone who has played COD online can attest too. Nintendo's current market is simply a majority of older gamers who have always played Nintendo games and have fond memories of mario, etc. This market however, is shrinking and cannot sustain a console which relies so heavily on them; this is coupled with the problem that a large segment of gamers today didn't grow up with the NES but rather with the PS1 or even PS2; Nintendo franchises by and large mean nothing to this group and the wii u's sales numbers prove that fact as far as I am concerned. The same old same ol will not work any longer question is can nintendo do anything about it before its to late...
If Nintendo truly believes this then they are delusional. The reality is that the WiiU is not even a choice on the so many gamer's list due to the poor library coming from the lack of third party support. The thing is, after 3 generations of little Japanese and Western third party, why will your average game interested in those franchises even buy a Nintendo console despite having those games. They could very well just stick to Playstation of Xbox where their friends are for instance.
 

JoeM86

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Aug 11, 2012
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from what i understand, there's some inner-turmoil at nintendo among the managers. most, especially at the board of directors, back iwata. however there's an anti-iwata group that wants to put games on smartphones, and are propping up katsuhito yamauchi (hiroshi yamauchi's first-born son) as iwata's replacement. apparently that would be done to appeal to some sort of tradition that hiroshi yamauchi kinda/sorta broke from when he appointed iwata as the first president outside of the company.

...or something.
God I can't wait for the smartphone bubble to burst for games. This is getting out of hand.
 

AniHawk

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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If Nintendo truly believes this then they are delusional. The reality is that the WiiU is not even a choice on the so many gamer's list due to the poor library coming from the lack of third party support. The thing is, after 3 generations of little Japanese and Western third party, why will your average game interested in those franchises even buy a Nintendo console despite having those games. They could very well just stick to Playstation of Xbox where their friends are for instance.
i kind of understand the intent. microsoft and sony have turned the industry into something unrecognizable from what it was a good ten years ago. it used to be a lot more splintered among the platform manufacturers in terms of library with broader general appeal. now it seems the focus is on an increasingly smaller, but still big enough fan base willing to spend money on games and services and dlc and day one content and early access, etc. on nintendo's side there's no real business in them chasing that market because the games they make don't require early access or have tons of dlc or need services, etc. i think to them getting third-party support isn't as important as getting the right kind of third-party support, although i can't tell you how or why they nabbed devil's third along the way.

where they were last gen was where they wanted to be. and i don't mean just making ridiculous amounts of money, but actually influencing the industry so that it's beneficial to them and forcing the other parts to adapt to fit in with nintendo instead of the other way around.
 

JoeM86

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Aug 11, 2012
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i kind of understand the intent. microsoft and sony have turned the industry into something unrecognizable from what it was a good ten years ago. it used to be a lot more splintered among the platform manufacturers in terms of library with broader general appeal. now it seems the focus is on an increasingly smaller, but still big enough fan base willing to spend money on games and services and dlc and day one content and early access, etc. on nintendo's side there's no real business in them chasing that market because the games they make don't require early access or have tons of dlc or need services, etc. i think to them getting third-party support isn't as important as getting the right kind of third-party support, although i can't tell you how or why they nabbed devil's third along the way.

where they were last gen was where they wanted to be. and i don't mean just making ridiculous amounts of money, but actually influencing the industry so that it's beneficial to them and forcing the other parts to adapt to fit in with nintendo.
I agree (shocking).

I'm not fond of where the industry is heading. It worries me greatly that my hobby of almost 3 decades is turning this way. We're having developers saying that gameplay is secondary and "has" to be there. We're having smartphone games with a pricing scheme intended to deceive and trick the consumer. We have developers folding like crazy due to ever expanding budgets and we have all the "big" games being rather similar (either shooter or third person with guns or weapons)

I'm personally thinking the industry is heading to a crash within the next 10 years. It's not sustainable in it's current place. I just hope Nintendo can weather the storm. They're the best developers in my view. They are diverse, they polish their games ridiculously, and are beloved by gamers, even though many say "I love <InsertNintendoFranchise>, but I'm not getting a Wii U"
 

Neuro

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Jul 3, 2013
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It really is sad seeing Nintendo like this, but they did it to themselves. The sat on their laurels while riding the success of the Wii. The Wii U came out way too expensive, extremely slow operating system, clunky controls. New Super Mario Bros U didn't even originally support their own Pro Controller. How does that even happen? They have so many areas that they could easily improve upon and rake in the money.

1. eShop pricing is a joke. Sales are little to non-existant on anything that Nintendo publishes. The Wonderful 101 on eShop was 100% higher than the MSRP of the game for months.

2. Virtual Console is an absolute insult. First I have to pay to "upgrade" my game from Wii to Wii U. NES games on Wii U are far beyond worst than on the Wii. They don't even have N64. A almost 20 year old system that seemingly cannot figure out how to get an emulator on; yet it launched the very first day on the Wii. Their releases are extremely sparse. One VC a week is the norm here in North America. Absolutely insane. They are sitting on a gold mine and they don't care at all to do anything with it.

3. They've lost basically every third party outside of Indie. Even if their third party relations was somehow better; I would still ask myself, why buy a third party game on the Wii U when it'll be better on the PS4.

4. They lagged behind software development because HD was too hard for them. They ignored everyone making HD games and didn't prepare themselves for this transformation.

5. They don't have cross buy between 3DS and Wii U. It's an absolute insult to the customer that they are wanting the customer to pay $5 for a NES VC game on 3DS and then pay $5 again to have it on the Wii U. We all know Iwata uses a Mac and an Iphone and he surely knows about cross buy. Android does it. Apple does it. Amazon does it. Sony does it. People are not giving in and are refusing to buy VC games until this is fixed.

6. Their account system is highly archaic. Locking an account to a system is embarrassing. Again, people are not buying their games digitally through Nintendo because of their completely backwards account system. Having to file a police report? Really? REALLY?

7. Their online system is a joke. I can't even talk to my friends while playing Mario Kart.


Nintendo needs to get with the times or they will die. It is truly saddening to see this company fall this low.
You clearly have not played Wind Waker...Gosh I love that game so much...
 

Apt101

Member
May 15, 2014
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Nintendo still absolutely has the resources and cred with the general public to recapture the console market with both core and casual gamers. I hear they have had issues adopting to HD game development. Once they get that under their belt there's no reason they can't partner with AMD and make a kick ass console, and work like Sony did to ease development. A Nintendo console that has their unique in-house library and also runs the best versions of multiplat titles sounds kind of like a no-brainer direction if they intend on remaining in the console space post Wii U. The problem though would be timing the release and convincing early adoption when Sony and Microsoft are just now starting to get their balls rolling.
 

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Jul 28, 2012
26,651
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i kind of understand the intent. microsoft and sony have turned the industry into something unrecognizable from what it was a good ten years ago. it used to be a lot more splintered among the platform manufacturers in terms of library with broader general appeal. now it seems the focus is on an increasingly smaller, but still big enough fan base willing to spend money on games and services and dlc and day one content and early access, etc. on nintendo's side there's no real business in them chasing that market because the games they make don't require early access or have tons of dlc or need services, etc. i think to them getting third-party support isn't as important as getting the right kind of third-party support, although i can't tell you how or why they nabbed devil's third along the way.

where they were last gen was where they wanted to be. and i don't mean just making ridiculous amounts of money, but actually influencing the industry so that it's beneficial to them and forcing the other parts to adapt to fit in with nintendo instead of the other way around.
I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you're saying. Are you saying Nintendo is willingly shying away from third parties? I'm not just talking about the big ones. I'm talking about 99% of third parties here.

Just think of the hundreds of franchises they have together that make up 95% of gaming's franchises. Now think of all the fans to those franchises. The vast majority of them won't even be considering a WiiU as a purchase.

Nintendo obviously wants third party support but it recognises that it might have little effect on their systems and hence the risk needed to get that support is seen as too much.
 
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Here's a rough translation of one of the juicy insider quotes. Disclaimer: it's been ages since I took Japanese.

Among management, there's a shared recognition that "Iwata is the culprit". That is, in the company, there is a strong desire to make popular games such as "Super Mario" etc. for smartphones, but Iwata is vetoing this very strongly. Iwata, continually repeating that "Nintendo's strength is in unified development of game hardware and software", stubbornly rejects the "net", and fixates over "game consoles", possibly because of his pride as a former developer. With the death last fall of the long-reigning company founder Hiroshi Yamauchi, there is nobody left who can defy Iwata. There are frequent rumors that part of the management is scheming to get rid of Iwata.
There's another insider quote later which claims that there's cultural friction due to Iwata's coming from outside the company. It says that Iwata continues to take part in software development even after becoming president and looks down on Nintendo "natives" as being, not sure how exactly to translate this, not dedicated enough? (&#21475;&#12400;&#12363;&#12426;&#12391;&#20307;&#12434;&#24373;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12394;&#12356;&#12290;) Meanwhile, said "natives" feel that Iwata ignores their opinions.
 

Neuro

Member
Jul 3, 2013
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Nintendo still absolutely has the resources and cred with the general public to recapture the console market with both core and casual gamers. I hear they have had issues adopting to HD game development. Once they get that under their belt there's no reason they can't partner with AMD and make a kick ass console, and work like Sony did to ease development. A Nintendo console that has their unique in-house library and also runs the best versions of multiplat titles sounds kind of like a no-brainer direction if they intend on remaining in the console space post Wii U. The problem though would be timing the release and convincing early adoption when Sony and Microsoft are just now starting to get their balls rolling.

I think they are already doing that, maybe not in terms of hardware but in terms of software they seem to be doing it...Zelda Wii U has components from the Windwaker...I have been noticing it for a few days now... The lighting system, the grass movement, the art style (Wii U has a much more mature Cel shading to it) are very similar, I am surprised that no-one has caught on to this...