• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Nintendo has the best futuristic racer and is doing nothing about it.

For me, Nintendo's arcade racing games have been some of the best games ever developed. Unfortunately, I don't think Nintendo feels they have that user base to support that genre anymore.

Wave Race, ExciteBike, 1080 Snowboarding, F-Zero. Not only is the Wii U userbase <<GCN <<< N64, but now these games cost triple to make.
 
Fzero Nintendo made 2 : Fzero and Fzero X all the others were outsourced projects that they had minimal involvement in.
they clearly don't want to do another Fzero.

Nintendo developed F-Zero BS on the BS-X, and F-Zero Xpansion Kit on the 64DD. I'm not sure what your criteria is, but Maximum Velocity was definitely developed in-house between R&D1 and NDCube. Kazunobu Shimizu himself from Nintendo designed the game. The second main designer of F-Zero SNES. Imamura, the main designer of F-Zero SNES, slightly worked on Climax.

It's not about EAD not wanting to make the game. It's about the reality of what that genre would sell on the current Nintendo userbase. It's the reality of how much an HD sequel with Mario Kart production would cost! I think the best best is for EAD to Wind Waker a GX port.
 
Nintendo developed F-Zero BS on the BS-X, and F-Zero Xpansion Kit on the 64DD. I'm not sure what your criteria is, but Maximum Velocity was definitely developed in-house between R&D1 and NDCube. Kazunobu Shimizu himself from Nintendo designed the game. The second main designer of F-Zero SNES. Imamura, the main designer of F-Zero SNES, slightly worked on Climax.

It's not about EAD not wanting to make the game. It's about the reality of what that genre would sell on the current Nintendo userbase. It's the reality of how much an HD sequel with Mario Kart production would cost! I think the best best is for EAD to Wind Waker a GX port.

I think people would be okay with an F-Zero game that didn't have "Mario Kart" production values. Hell, I think it would be interesting if they went back to the comic book style from X and applied it to the gameplay as well. They could mask simplier, cheaper visuals with a cel-shaded look.
 
GX didn't sell as poorly as everyone seems to think. Compared to Nintendo's top franchises, it was low, sure, but it still sold just shy of half a million units worldwide as of January 2005 (less than a year and a half after its release). That's not so bad. It's better than plenty of games that do get sequels, even Nintendo games. Although, to be fair, GX was the last home console F-Zero, not the last one ever - that was Climax, even though Nintendo, in their wisdom, didn't release it outside of Japan. I mean, GX sold 4 times better outside of Japan, so it clearly wasn't worth localizing once they'd sunk the cost to make it, right? But I digress...

Personally, I think that level of sales is fine, when the game in question is also critically acclaimed and is also a nice entry that helps make a diverse lineup of games for the system/company.
 
Again if you don't play them extensively you may have no idea what they actually did with it.
For Animal Crossing for example.
DS brought multiplayer, internet play and other stuffs.
Wii brough annoying stuffs mostly and a center where you do all your shopping as well as dlc
3DS added even more stuffs such as visiting someone else's town while they're away and other stuffs still.
They may look similar but they're really not (what wouldn't I give for them to remove the grass decay....)

MK is even more clear,
64 introduced 4 players play and pretty much 3D (and made the courses absurdly long)
GBA introduced not that many stuffs but it was the 1rst handheld
GC they were out of ideas so they went off the wall with the 2 players per kart and network play
DS was internet, mission mode and retro tracks
Wii was the channel with the challenges and extended to 12 players per tracks
3DS changed the paradigm with allowing racers to go underwater and flying
And WiiU was antigrav.

As far as gameplay mechanic goes it's farther appart than most game series goes.
Fzero Nintendo made 2 : Fzero and Fzero X all the others were outsourced projects that they had minimal involvement in.
they clearly don't want to do another Fzero.

GX is probably very different to how EAD would have handled a FZero game on GC.
We may be very happy with it but that doesn't mean it's not Sega's take on Fzero.
What they did with Mario Kart they could have done with Fzero, they don't want to touch it for whatever reason.
After all they didn't touch SMB for more than 10 years and that sells more than everything they ever did.
The thing is since it doesn't sell as much as Mario they don't have bean counters telling them to do another one.

Admittedly I've only put much time into The GC Animal Crossing, City Folk and New Leaf.

For Mario Kart however, I've dumped extensive time into just about every entry up until 7. There are changes sure, but very few of the entries have the sorts of changes that can used as an example of why F-Zero couldn't have sequels of a similar manner.

You've identified things like internet play and additional content (even retro content) as differentiating reasons, whilst I'd say not only are these not exactly huge differences (Speed Devils to Speed Devils Online was pretty much the same game), but F-Zero hasn't even had them, and yet apparently they can't work out where to go from here with the IP? That doesn't seem very convincing at all tbh.

As for SMB being dormant for over a decade.. that's a completely different scenario as the IP was seeing 'true' sequels in stuff like Mario64 and Sunshine etc. That'd be like saying Sega was hesitant to make any Sonic the Hedgehog game prior to Sonic 4. It's simply not comparable.
 
which is the last WipEout you played? Because stopping dead for coming into light contact with the barriers sounds like Wipeout 1 (which was horrifically difficult as a result), and was changed in 2097, where the ship scrapes along the side instead.

I do agree though that liking one and disliking the other doesn't really imply fanboyism. The games are honestly nothing alike, even superficially.

yup, the first one. never really gave the sequels a chance. same thing happened with the first few GTs IIRC.

in fact thinking about it i'm not very forgiving!! with a few select exceptions, if a mechanic is broken or poor in a game i'm really unlikely to give it a second chance if it becomes a series.
 
yup, the first one. never really gave the sequels a chance. same thing happened with the first few GTs IIRC.

in fact thinking about it i'm not very forgiving!! with a few select exceptions, if a mechanic is broken or poor in a game i'm really unlikely to give it a second chance if it becomes a series.

Yea the original WipEout isn't a very good game imo. It was mostly their in terms of presentation (but even there 2097 completely destroyed it), but the gameplay was pretty rough. F-Zero was definitely the better series at that point (even with just the SNES original). I don't think there's really any debate to be had there.

It's a shame that you didn't get around to trying any others though. 2097 was such a massive jump as a sequel, that I'd compare it to stuff like Street Fighter II or Zone of the Enders 2 in terms of how much was improved. I don't blame you though, I often drop a series forever if I don't get along with the original (Assassin's Creed and Uncharted are two that I'm always told are much better in their follow ups, but I simply don't care now, lol).
 
Nintendo developed F-Zero BS on the BS-X, and F-Zero Xpansion Kit on the 64DD. I'm not sure what your criteria is, but Maximum Velocity was definitely developed in-house between R&D1 and NDCube. Kazunobu Shimizu himself from Nintendo designed the game. The second main designer of F-Zero SNES. Imamura, the main designer of F-Zero SNES, slightly worked on Climax.

It's not about EAD not wanting to make the game. It's about the reality of what that genre would sell on the current Nintendo userbase. It's the reality of how much an HD sequel with Mario Kart production would cost! I think the best best is for EAD to Wind Waker a GX port.

That's all I want really... Adding in online play and a few extra tracks would make it even better!!!
 
F-Zero feels more "hardcore" than Wipeout. There is something satisfying about driving at 1000khm and smashing your opponent on the sides of the track, using the weight and shields of your own craft instead of weapons, risking it in the process. In Wipeout, you just get a power up and you press the button to use it. Simple, safe and easy. Like Mario Kart and its countless clones. F-Zero is different. To kill your opponent its only a matter of skill and coordination. Fail to hit him and you might go off track yourself, or hit the rails, losing much needed energy and speed. Its just much more intense.

Also, i prefer the metal OST of F-Zero X. Trance/techno wouldn't work so well in that game anyway. Its too hardcore, trance music would only soften it.

We'll just have to disagree here I guess. I consider F-Zero to be exponentially easier to play than any WipEout game. The act of simply racing in WipEout is extremely challenging, and causes many people to drop the games out of frustration. Racing in F-Zero is easier than most racing games, with the real difficulty being the risks you take in order to go faster. The player essentially sets their own difficulty on the racing side, choosing to go faster as they learn to handle the speeds. It's a very accommodating way to introduce people to the game versus WipEout's "adapt now or die" mentality.

Yep, I also disagree. As much as I like F-Zero style, I find it to be a lot easier and less rewarding than Wipeout.
The crazy speed is very exciting, I'll give you that, but I feel always in total control of the craft. If I do something wrong is because of the speed, not the track or something else. Speed is basically the only thing that matters.
Wipeout is different, richer and more complex, it has different spacecrafts with different feelings and weights and you can easily lose the control because tracks aren't flat, there are a lot of unevenness that can make you fly (and do a barrell roll, if it's worth it and you're fast), and they aren't wide enough to allow many mistakes either, while F-Zero has wide tracks that give a lot of range for your movements.
If you don't master the track and the craft you'll be costantly scratching on the sides, word, while in F-Zero you'll probably just go slower. This is the minimum required when playing online or at the fastest speed because weapons will make things even harder.
Speaking about it, the description you did of weapons is poor and the comparison with Mario Kart is totally out of place, it's too slow and tracks are too wide. Firing or even avoiding missiles, bombs or stuff isn't that easy when you're going fast on a tight road and online you will not last long using them carelessly.
Also, "simple, safe and easy" doesn't sound like Wipeout. Sure, you just have to press a button to fire but not all of the weapons have the auto aim or a wide range and you might want to use it to restore your health. The Speed power up can be used everywhere but it shouldn't due to curves and unevenness, some places are definitely better and safer than others to cut seconds.

Shortly, in my opinion Wipeout is a game to master with practice and patience, but it requires reflexes and good eyes first, while F-Zero is more accomodating being a simple racer with crazy speed levels and less variables to take in consideration.
I know what I'm saying because I was one of those who dropped the game early, having hard moments at Rapier mode which is slower than Phantom, Zen, Subsonic, Mach 1 and Supersonic.. quite frustrating. Then I spent some time on it and it became fun and rewarding. I still suck compared to some pro players but it's fun.

Waiting for the announce of both (that will never come), I'd invite some guys to give another chance to Wipeout HD/Fury. Your goal is Zone 75 if you never reached it :D
 
I absolutely love both F-Zero and WipEout. I think I might slightly prefer F-Zero for its more snappy controls and pure racing focus (the weapons in WipEout aren't really necessary, IMO), but GX and HD/Fury are both among the best racing games I've ever played. Add Motorstorm Pacific Rift to that group and you have my awesome arcade racing trifecta. So sad that all of these are dead or at least on extended hiatus.
 
Are there more advanced ways of controlling your ship in F-Zero GX then? I still have that game as well as my GameCube.

You say that you still have the game and, for what i understand, you played a significant amount of time in the past (when the game was released).

F-zero GX is, in my opinion, not as exclusive as some think. The AI its difficult i know, but (with the correct ship) its really easy to just play the game after knowing the circuit where you are playing and some practice. Like other have said, the difficult part of F-zero is not to drive your ship, is to learn to drive it faster and then faster than before. The barrier that F-Zero GX has is "patience". But what is true with F-Zero GX is that its one of those games that are two in one: you can just play it or you can also learn all the hidden stuff.

Because of that, its difficult for me to "guess" your ability with the game. I would need you to tell me your level in F-Zero GX to say if is recomendable to pick the game again or not. What have you unlocked in the game!? everything?? yes? no?

edit: whatever, i guess that the thread is dead for now.
 
In addition to the best futuristic racer, a can argue that they have the best:

- Water racer/sport game, in Wave Race.
- Winter sports game, in 1080 Snowboarding (lol, nearly typed 1080p!)
- 3D arcade shoot-em-up, in Starfox (seems action is FINALLY being taken)


... and have been contented doing 'nothing' for too long. In their defense, they were busy pursuing casuals and new experiences with Wii - which I believe was way too underpowered to do those games justice - but, I will flip if these games don't make an appearance somewhere in this gen.
SSX > 1080. You're right about everything else though.
 
It's interesting to hear Miyamoto say that a creative spark is what's holding it back, because I would assume it's just business. It didn't sell in droves on GCN, and now they have a system that's like the GCN, not selling well. Every game they make has to be under heavy scrutiny at this point.

Do you allocate a hundred people and two years to creating an F-Zero game that historically won't help the system much (even if it does become a cult classic)? Or do you dump those resources into a.) another Mario game or b.) a new IP that may prove to have more market appeal than F-Zero?

If Nintendo was less desperate, I think F-Zero could be probably, but sadly that's just not the case. Perhaps if 2014 continues to be the turnaround they need, its chances will fare better in the future.

An HD remix of the GCN game (or at bare minimum as a GCN VC title) might be a less risky, less resource intensive way for them to test the waters?
 
Top Bottom