Depends on what "powerfull" is. I can tell you they won't have a 399 console though, so set your expectations accordingly.
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Depends on what "powerfull" is. I can tell you they won't have a 399 console though, so set your expectations accordingly.
Someone's going to let you know that it's because it wasn't mario galaxy 3 (or some other 3D mario that wasn't 3D world), as if that would have sold Wii U systems. Nevermind that NSMB wii outsold the galaxy games combined.
Nintendo just failed to demonstrate value with Wii U, that's it. It needed a good price/library ratio that it never reached. It needed minecraft in 2012, not 2015. It needed a stronger launch lineup to get the ball rolling, as well. Instead, nintendo had to constantly push the wii u up hill until its death.
It would surprise me very much if its 400$ and by extension on par with ps4k. Im thinking gpu more or less ps4 level, cpu slightly above (I think some "reliable" gaffer said 30% above), and Nintendo are usually generous with memory relative to performance levels.
They have no choice because 3rd parties don't want to work with them and their hardware. So, it's up to them and they don't have enough.
This is why NX is DoA unless 3rd parties are on board fully. Like, PlayStation levels. Otherwise, it will continue to look like a dead, Nintendo only platform.
Nintendo needs to convince consumers that it has changed. No one should believe them until proven otherwise.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Do you not realize how many games they make every year?
Also, they are a conservative company in regards to growth. It's the reason they have never had layoffs even during the most dire pre Wii u launch reports. There are only so many "nintendo nurtured" producers avaialble to lead new teams anyway, but that is something that is definitely growing. Maintaining their corporate culture in terms of development has been a huge part of what miyamoto and other star producers have been cultivating the last few years.
NeonZ
Member
The point there is that a new 3d game Mario with detailed unique environments would be a much stronger way to show how the Wii U stood out from the Wii compared to a higher resolution 2d game, or a 3d game where the design was mostly gameplay centered, to the point that the visuals resembled a handheld title, even if it had higher resolution and other technical improvements.
I think it's pretty fucking terrible. Especially the final boss and the DLC boss. Stuff like that is where you see a breakdown of the game's design.
Spieler Eins
Member
lol 800k WiiUs.
They really need to be serious about keeping that March date for NX. Otherwise they pretty much won't have a living home console on the market for 2 years.
They really need to be serious about keeping that March date for NX. Otherwise they pretty much won't have a living home console on the market for 2 years.
Let's say it's a console/handheld hybrid. What if they charged $400 for the console and handheld and you had to buy them together? That's reasonable. I'd take that over selling them separate at $300 and $200.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
I wouldn't call Triforce Heroes s spinoff. I'd put it in the same category as Spirit Tracks: a technically decent Zelda game with a goofy, unZelda-like focus. In Spirit Tracks it was (ugh) trains, with Heroes it was (ugh!) fashion. Aonuma apparently sees Nintendo's handhelds as a testing ground for elements that would seem ridiculous in a "serious", console Zelda .
But yeah, I agree that they're releasing too many spinoffs and have been for years.
3rd parties have almost never been primarily what sold or defined Nintendo systems. When they're huge like Wii or bomb like Gamecube, it almost always comes down to the appeal and reach of Nintendo's own catalog first and foremost. It was the same for Sega.
That said, Nintendo does need 3rd parties to fill their library and they can't support a system single handedly. But the best way to get 3rd parties on board is to build a sizable userbase, and the best way to do that is with Nintendo games that consumers want like, well, Mario and Zelda. It doesn't always work out, it certainly didn't with Wii U, but it has before as well (DS, Wii, 3DS). And personally I don't think NSMBU was really the most exciting sort of Mario product either or a good litmus test for Mario franchise potential.
I played local co-op with my brothers during thanksgiving and christmas break. Some of the most fun we've had doing local co op in years. It's possible the game is only as fun as your friends/co-op partners. I'd love if they made a new one every year, but I doubt sales of TFH were good enough to warrant that.
If you'd never played 3D land, you'd never think the visuals in 3D world resembled a handheld title, at all. 3D world was fine, despite not being what 'hardcore 3D mario fans' wanted. To the average consumer, it'd be indistinguishable between a 'traditional' 3D mario, I'm sure. I don't buy this argument at all. I just don't think Wii U gave your average consumer a need to buy one, and the best mario game in the universe wouldn't have changed this.
Yeah I don't see Triforce heroes as half baked. Now Animal Crossing? That game reeks of this:
"Wii U is selling like crap so push the next Animal Crossing to NX"
"But what about all hose HD assets we made?"
"I don't know, think of something. Be creative. You have six months."
You lost me at hybrid.
Imo they won't make you buy both, they'll give you a choice. Buy the 299 console or the 199 handheld. With a (partially) shared library.
If this is a first party machine primarily, a partially shared library will not work at all because then you'll have one system getting a game while the other gets nothing. The same issue we have with 3DS and Wii U. The handheld and console needs to have all the same games for Nintendo to sustain it.
If we have a new handheld and a new console and they have their own software, it's going to be a repeat of the Wii U / 3DS gen.
Linkstrikesback
Member
And it's OK to like it. It's definitely the weakest internally developed Zelda though. It just reeks too much of the rushjob it turned out to be.
You want the rumours of final fantays XV on a NX to be true? Then know they can't make a 100% shared platform because no way can Square get that game to run on a handheld. It hardly runs well on PS4.
I think nintendo themselves will TRY to get their first party games on both though.
I think it would have gotten more core gamers on board. I'm sure 3D World was a great game but it did not have the same hype that the Galaxy games did. A lot of people thought it'd be just like the 3DS game and that didn't ezcite them.
Wha kind of handheld specs are you expecting? For example 3DS is still $199 and not seeling at a loss is very telling.
I think it's more about older games on consoles being able to run on handhelds with no effort on the part of developers, because you "SHOULD" be able to make it happen over time.
It was the general lack of visual distinction between some of the projects nintendo launched with.
Pikmin 3 looked like pikmin 2 HD
NSMB Wii U looked... exactly like NSMB Wii HD
Mario 3D World looked exactly like Mario 3D land
That doesn't say there weren't great games as it can be argued all of those were some of the best entries in their respective serie. But they had a very safe, bland look to them.
Wasn't it developed by Grezzo?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Looks like Nintendo is about to embrace the MAU.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Alongside a team from Nintendo, yes. They helped with the development.
I think we had some very good target specs for handhelds in the various NX rumour threads. CPU wise: ARMv8 Cortex-A53 or A57, 540p, plenty of ram. A72 might be too expensive - unless they handheld gets released later.
I don't know a lot about mobile GPU's so no idea what they'd go for, can be something custom by AMD. That would be enough to run modern engines, and still sell for cheap.
Indeed, Grezzo has been the new team for the "smaller" zelda projects for a while now. Which is good imo, they are a talented bunch (I really liked ALBW btw)
Enough core gamers to matter, though? I honestly think that a huge portion of fans who would have wanted a new 3D mario/galaxy probably already bought a Wii U. Wii U had a ton of problems, one that a 'new 3D mario' wouldn't have solved - unless that 3D mario was there on Day 1 to help get the ball rolling (and even then, it wouldn't have been THAT big of a push).
Bots are better than you
Banned
NX gen should have one focus, regaining/reestablishing a stronger userbase of what you could call Nintendo fans. They won't make masses of gamers move consoles, that's ridiculous. It's also reaching to say that the audience of NX won't be interested in western franchises like ... CoD or whatever. The big annual IPs of the western 3rds have that special mainstream appeal, that's why Nintendo needs them on the system. And even among "Nintendo fans" those game have appeal.
Look at Splatoon, behind that quirky style, it's nothing more than a multiplayer-focused, team-based 3rd person shooter. Based on this example, i could see a port of Blizzards Overwatch doing decently.
And looking how much stuff Nintendo is willing to do for 3rd party games, see Monster Hunter or Yo-Kai Watch, i'd guess that they're certainly willing to maybe delay one game in order for a big-hitter from a 3rd party to take the spotlight.
Basically, Nintendo needs to provide a system with a convenient enviroment to work with (tools, suitable hardware power, solid online infrastructure, engines!!!), but 3rds also need to throw some consistent support at it, can't get better with zero games to have.
and would make the hh/console version(s) superfluous.
Nintendo actually launched the Wii U in time for Holiday 12 with a whole bunch of third party titles. How did that go?
Spring-Loaded
Member
Yup, Wii U had a lot of problems - no 3rd party was a symptom of that, not the cause.
Overpriced (STILL 300 bucks), underpowered, brand confusion, and a really slow start led to its demise and 3rd party disappearing.
If NX can provide a value (right price + games library) early on, keep a steady flow of games coming in (easier NX development + 3rd party IP spin-offs), promise great games down the line, and if people can be made aware of the value (good marketing), AND if nintendo can do a little extra for it (3rd party partnerships + ip spin-off), it can succeed. Add Mobile games raising brand awareness, MyNintendo making players stay active, and IP licensing (movies, tv, comics, toys) teaching new generations of kids about the IP, NX can do much better. Hopefully nintendo learned the right lessons from Wii U. We'll see what they do.
Selling at or above cost tells you little, especially when trying to compare to current goods at market. (The PS4K is likely to be profitable day 1, so that should give you an idea.)
It just means they're not going to try to sink themselves in a PS3/X360 cost scenario. Or they could end up even changing their tune after the fact ala 3DS and major price-cut early.
Selling a handheld at or near cost for 200$ with modern tech would be well above anything at market in this day and age.
What if the NX handheld costed the same as the console, even if despite having weaker innards they'll still have to be in a relative same ballpark and the handheld has to account for more costs like screens and the sort, while consoles can offset some of the cost via accessories like controllers and the like. Similar to how the Vita TV was a lot cheaper than the handheld Vita (despite being heavily gimped)
And
So realistically speaking, how much of a difference does 3-4 months make in terms of making sure the entire launch line up is bolstered considerably along with the rest of the year end calendar.
I don't doubt that it wasn't going to be ready this holiday season after how slow this year's rumours and dev kits acquisitions were handled, which speaks a bit of the incompetence of Nintendo, similarity to Wii U being both over cooked in terms of skipping holiday 2011 (along with the horrible reveal it had) and the terrible software lineup they had internally and via partnerships. I realize the Wii U specific scenario caught Nintendo with their pants down in terms of man power necessary to push for HD development especially the first push, and how poorly planned the console was both in terms of short term by limiting it's CPU to make porting difficult and in terms of long term support in relation of where the industry as a whole was heading.
Still, the point is that now they've failed to schedule NX content's to be of enough quality and diversity to grasp consumer interest this holiday season, but at the same time they have to launch it before the fiscal year ends to bolster their revenue for the fiscal year to show face to investors. So they're basically pushing it to the last possible moment and buying as much time as possible to offer as much as they can instead of having For the more advantageous holiday season. So again, how much is 3-4 months gonna do since still a lot of western developers haven't recieved any feedback from Nintendo devkit wise, and how usually Nintendo's development schedule has always longer than average. I think and hope the lineup will be closer to the GC than 3ds but they hardly have the benefit of the doubt anymore.
And
So realistically speaking, how much of a difference does 3-4 months make in terms of making sure the entire launch line up is bolstered considerably along with the rest of the year end calendar.
I don't doubt that it wasn't going to be ready this holiday season after how slow this year's rumours and dev kits acquisitions were handled, which speaks a bit of the incompetence of Nintendo, similarity to Wii U being both over cooked in terms of skipping holiday 2011 (along with the horrible reveal it had) and the terrible software lineup they had internally and via partnerships. I realize the Wii U specific scenario caught Nintendo with their pants down in terms of man power necessary to push for HD development especially the first push, and how poorly planned the console was both in terms of short term by limiting it's CPU to make porting difficult and in terms of long term support in relation of where the industry as a whole was heading.
Still, the point is that now they've failed to schedule NX content's to be of enough quality and diversity to grasp consumer interest this holiday season, but at the same time they have to launch it before the fiscal year ends to bolster their revenue for the fiscal year to show face to investors. So they're basically pushing it to the last possible moment and buying as much time as possible to offer as much as they can instead of having For the more advantageous holiday season. So again, how much is 3-4 months gonna do since still a lot of western developers haven't recieved any feedback from Nintendo devkit wise, and how usually Nintendo's development schedule has always longer than average. I think and hope the lineup will be closer to the GC than 3ds but they hardly have the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Its a staggered affect. Games that could be released this holiday, get released early next year and software slated for next year early get time for later. If they are already done they can just sit around for a few months or otherwise have a few months of polish. Then games even further away get more time to be finished. It buys them a few months and the ability to line-up software for longer.
That being said, I don't think they skipped holiday over software. Software is a good and easy to understand excuse.
Skittzo0413
Member
As a huge fan of Mario 3D World, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree slightly with you both:
I'm convinced that Mario and Zelda would have greatly helped the Wii U achieve more respectable numbers, if new entries would have been available either at launch or soon after. 3D World was fantastic, but it launched after almost a full year of nearly no first party software, and the Wii U's "no games" stigma was going strong. NSMB U was a great game too but it was almost identical at a glance to NSMB Wii/DS, so that's hardly a huge draw for consumers on the fence about spending $350 on a new console.
Imagine if Wii U had launched with Mario 3D World, and possibly Skyward Sword HD or even Wind Waker HD... in addition to the somewhat decent 3rd party lineup it had at launch. I definitely think Mario and Zelda at or near launch will greatly help the NX have some success.
In order for it to be a smash hit a la Wii though, they need a really good "gimmick" or a lot of new and interesting software, likely with new IPs.
I address this in my follow up posts, this is basically my point. Wii U had several flaws, one of which was a really really slow start. A 3D mario at launch (or first 4 months) could have helped a lot. *JUST* having a 3D mario akin to galaxy on the system at some point wouldn't have helped at all, it was already 'doomed' past a certain point in time.
So it's both the domino effect of relieving pressure from all development teams schedules and as KingBroly said, condense the time frame of releases raise the positive perception of the console releases and momentum.
While that's obviously going to be true just for the advantages more time offers, it having It's release tied to the end of the calendar year deadline instead of an arbitriary month is what worries me if it's actually extra time or just the necessary minimum time to have it ready. I'm not sure if I'm coming across here.. But basically if they could've released by the holidays they would've, so since they can't and at the same time can't miss the calendar year, March would mean it's just ready instead of being stacked like many of us would like to believe, but at the very least won't be undercooked like a rushed holiday release, so that's something.
JohnTinker
Limbaugh Parrot
Reason you uninstalled Miitomo?
> TERRIFYING NOTIFICATION SOUND
> TERRIFYING NOTIFICATION SOUND
Skittzo0413
Member
Oh I agree with that, I was just responding to that first point about 3DW vs NSMBU (why NSMBU wasn't the type of Mario game that would help ensure a good launch), and OrbitalMatrix's point you were replying to, and my point is basically that Mario and Zelda could for sure help but timing was a huge problem (which you seem to agree with).
Hopefully Kimishima's comments about the March release being to ensure enough software is a good sign in that area.
Edit:
Oh my god yes, don't watch horror movies with Miitomo on your phone (and your notification volume way too high)
NeonZ
Member
The point would be to use Mario to promote some game that at first glance obviously couldn't be done on the Wii or 3ds. To the "average consumer", 3d World was just a nothing that didn't attract attention at all. In that sense, their reactions weren't different from the disappointed hardcore fans who complained about the game resembling a portable game during its unveil.
Now, one game by itself would never "save the Wii U", but it easily could be a flag that attracted more attention to the console and Nintendo's overall output, rather than something that was revealed and released with little reaction aside from the audience that was already there.
They "have their appeal", but is that appeal really big enough to justify further porting costs? The NX will be coming in the middle of the generation. There will be little reason to get a console for games that are available elsewhere, so at best you'd get people with cross interests, who love Nintendo's games enough to get the hardware, and also like some 3rd party games, but not enough to buy other systems for them. That would mean generally low 3rd party sales. And then, there's also the spring launch, after the holiday season, so most fans of the games getting ported already would have them.
Really, the best 3rd party support that one should expect for the NX should be closer to the 3ds' than to what the HD consoles get, and that's a best case scenario. It easily could end up just as badly as the Wii U depending on the design decisions regarding the future console and handheld, alongside their priorities.
I think that they'd avoid a high price for future handhelds due to the initial failure of the 3ds. Children are still a really important market for handhelds, so they need to be cheap enough to be gifts. Also, even in a scenario where both console and handheld are effectively a single system, I'd expect the console to have boosted inwards compared to the handheld in order to allow extra OS features, graphical enhancements and multiplayer in a single device.
Regarding their delay, I'd guess it's mostly a matter of focusing on their internal development. Their launch titles wouldn't be ready for December, but could be finished with some extra months. Alternatively, like mentioned above, there's the chance that they just want to get one final year out of the 3ds, and that's the actual reason for the silence regarding the NX, rather than it being a sign that any 3ds replacement is something for the distant future. Maybe they're waiting for the Pokemon launch even. Either way, the spring launch makes no sense if you attempt to look at it from a 3rd party support point of view.
As I said, I don't think they did it for software. I think there are extenuating circumstances that they aren't mentioning behind the delay.
RobFox64tm
Member
A couple of things:
First, I think it might be a wise move to launch a console that early in the year. There are a fairly large number of Nintendo faithful who will pick the system up no matter when the release date is, and it could also be a good way to manage supply restraints. That time would also help the system's library grow more appealing by its first holiday season, which will be even more key to the system's future.
Second, I can't blame Nintendo for wanting to hold the system back to wait for the software. Among the many problems with Wii U, I think the anemic launch line up, the relatively large gap between key releases early on, and the lack of prospective, appealing software in the months leading up to and during the system's launch were the most damaging. Nintendo needs to demonstrate that NX will have a variety of high profile games at launch and with plenty more coming in the future. Assuming that the Wii U's current software release schedule means many projects moved to the new system, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect they will. We shall see.
First, I think it might be a wise move to launch a console that early in the year. There are a fairly large number of Nintendo faithful who will pick the system up no matter when the release date is, and it could also be a good way to manage supply restraints. That time would also help the system's library grow more appealing by its first holiday season, which will be even more key to the system's future.
Second, I can't blame Nintendo for wanting to hold the system back to wait for the software. Among the many problems with Wii U, I think the anemic launch line up, the relatively large gap between key releases early on, and the lack of prospective, appealing software in the months leading up to and during the system's launch were the most damaging. Nintendo needs to demonstrate that NX will have a variety of high profile games at launch and with plenty more coming in the future. Assuming that the Wii U's current software release schedule means many projects moved to the new system, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect they will. We shall see.
I don't think a Galaxy 3 would've helped any more than 3D World would've at launch. Both would be seen as more-of-same refinements rather than proof of concept system sellers. It was exactly the same issue NSMBU faced, only that game also carried a more worn out series brand on top of everything.
The Mario game Wii U needed to launch with was really Mario Maker. Something that felt legitimately new and yet still comfortably familiar. And also something that fundamentally enforces the strengths of the platform's interface.
Skittzo0413
Member
Besides being in HD, what exactly could a Mario game on Wii U do that a game on Wii/3DS couldn't? We've gotten past the age of enormous generational leaps with new consoles, I think. I could just as easily ask what does Uncharted 4 do that Uncharted 3 doesn't do?
I'm really not sure what Nintendo could have done differently with a 3D Mario game- the visuals were fantastic, the level design was possibly the best of any 3D Mario game, the ending (Champion's Road) was phenomenal and challenging as hell... Really the main complaints from the hardcore was that it didn't have the exploration focus, but really neither did either of the Galaxy games, outside of a few scarce levels.
Really the biggest problem with 3D World was that it came out a year after launch... that's not a good way to showcase a new console, it needed to be there in the launch window.
Edit:
I think a Mario Galaxy (or even 3D World) at launch would have greatly helped, as it would present a 3D Mario game in HD, and as we can see from 3DWorld, the visuals would have been stunning. At a console launch, you need to give consumers on the fence compelling reasons to throw down a lot of cash, and simple to understand visual upgrades are very effective at that.
That being said, I totally agree with you that Mario Maker at launch would have also been huge. Probably moreso than an HD 3D Mario game. It all goes back to Nintendo having to support 2 platforms, and not being able to afford to focus on Wii U software until it was way too late. That's why the rumblings of a shared library for NX have me fairly optimistic.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
These are good points.
NeonZ
Member
Push new visuals that actually use the HD jump, with new characters and locations alongside the classic Mario brand, helping build the image of something "new" and important even if there aren't corresponding gameplay innovations.
In that sense, a "Mario Galaxy" could work due to the first game's use of unique visuals and objects for various planetoids and areas. If they could repeat something like that, in the sense of once again being able to show an innovative visual presentation for a main Mario game, it could get attention again. However, if we're talking about something closer to Galaxy 2, which, in spite of using the same engine, already pushed in the direction of 3d Land/World, with the world design being mostly gameplay focused with very few locations designed just for their visuals, then it'd probably perform no different, or even worse, than 3d World.
I don't think Mario Maker would have worked either. Even with Nintendo's approachable design, creation tools have a low ceiling. Even Minecraft is primarily a game, even if that game is a giant tool box.
Skittzo0413
Member
Are you saying that 3DW didn't have good visuals? I agree it wasn't on the level of Mario Kart 8 but I personally thought the game was gorgeous. And it certainly had some "setting visuals" if I'm understanding you correctly, like most of the Bowser levels had very nice looking backgrounds- I'm remembering the one with the giant Luigi sprite way in the background walking through the lava.
If you're saying that it didn't have the huge "set piece" style levels then I can sorta see what you're saying. Galaxy did have those great environmental effects like the volcano exploding as you fly through a star (again, working from memory) but I don't know if those things alone would necessarily have helped the console sell. 3DW had some fairly interesting levels in that vein, like the shadow levels for instance.
Also as to Mario Maker, if you take into account the amount of hyping up they did (all the "guest" creator trailers) it would've likely done very well around launch.
Regarding to ports from PS4 and XBO, while it's obvious the NX is at disadvantage perception wise both by the nature of it being a Nintendo system that has lost a lot of it's reputation regarding traditional blockbuster gaming, and it being a mid generation launch means that Nintendo is once again in an uphill battle regarding courting 3rd parties and providing a meaningful ecosystem that is worth the resources spent. But at the very least, this isn't like with the 360/PS3 where the active base was very high and in a declining phase already after 6-7 years. NX is coming at a time where both acquisition of this generation is still expanding and the game development is still going strong. Despite PS4 fast sell through and very positive word of mouth there's still a big enough slice of pie for Nintendo to go for especially with the ability to provide extra value with the integrated architecture/OS and strong first party software. Instead of the Wii U disaster that came to the party when everybody had already left with the money wasted on an expensive present that couldn't be gifted and the cake were just crumbs swarming with ants.
The first point was how everybody thought the 3ds launch would go, which was riding the coat tails of the still strong DS (especially in America). And while some correctly predicted, a strong launch wouldn't be able to sustain itself without any positive buzz that the software lineup and 3D failed to achieve. Despite recuperating in Japan due to very key partnerships with a huge diversity of partners it struggled throughout in the west as that content doesn't translate as well (not to mention not having a MH ready by 2011 holiday and in my opinion not making a huge deal of Resident Evil with strong comarketing as some sort of MH replacement for the west). I think 3ds was the bigger slap in the face for the inception of the NX content where backwards compatibility needed to be reinvented in order to create natural and enticing upgrades options instead of having to toss away your momentum and having to start from scratch.
Triforce Heroes is a million seller though.
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