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[MUnited83]

Update your dictionary.



Could you please spare us the whole thing about outrage culture and all that shit.

A promise would be: "We are undoubtedly releasing this game in this platform. Back us and a Wii U version will definitely be a thing in the future!" That's a promise.

Saying they are working on a Wii U build is not they promising it wil come out and that it isn't going to be cancelled at some point.
I mean, if it is, where it's the outrage at the PS3/360 versions being cancelled? Where the the people screaming "muh broken promises" on threads about cancelled games/versions?


And no, it's not, "the whole thing about outrage culture". Most people here didn't back the game at all and are acting like the devs killed their dog or something. Without having any personal stake on it at all. Meanwhile you can go the actual game's forums and see that actual backers that only backed it because of Wii U are an extremely small base of it. And those that are, they can still ask for a refund, or they can be smart and just wait for August to get all the money they invested back and some profit on top. They can be outraged, never back one of the dev's projects again, but this is a non-issue all around.

 

[StevieP]

A promise would be: "We are undoubtedly releasing this game in this platform. Back us and a Wii U version will definitely be a thing in the future!" That's a promise.

Saying they are working on a Wii U build is not they promising it wil come out and that it isn't going to be cancelled at some point.
I mean, if it is, where it's the outrage at the PS3/360 versions being cancelled? Where the the people screaming "muh broken promises" on threads about cancelled games/versions?


And no, it's not, "the whole thing about outrage culture". Most people here didn't back the game at all and are acting like the devs killed their dog or something. Without having any personal stake on it at all. Meanwhile you can go the actual game's forums and see that actual backers that only backed it because of Wii U are an extremely small base of it. And those that are, they can still ask for a refund, or they can be smart and just wait for August to get all the money they invested back and some profit on top. They can be outraged, never back one of the dev's projects again, but this is a non-issue all around.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=172555226&postcount=83

See mod post.

 

[Interceptor]

A promise would be: "We are undoubtedly releasing this game in this platform. Back us and a Wii U version will definitely be a thing in the future!" That's a promise.

Welcome to 2012 aka funding phase.

 

[Mael]

A promise would be: "We are undoubtedly releasing this game in this platform. Back us and a Wii U version will definitely be a thing in the future!" That's a promise.

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Promise_(disambiguation)

That poster Wavebossa posted just above you is already false advertising.

Saying they are working on a Wii U build is not they promising it wil come out and that it isn't going to be cancelled at some point.
I mean, if it is, where it's the outrage at the PS3/360 versions being cancelled? Where the the people screaming "muh broken promises" on threads about cancelled games/versions?

ps3/360 versions were cancelled ages ago, they were pretty open on these versions not being up to their standards.
They weren't that honest with the WiiU version which is why you're seeing this outrage.
Not my fault if people feel like calling out dishonest behaviour (like they should imo)

And no, it's not, "the whole thing about outrage culture". Most people here didn't back the game at all and are acting like the devs killed their dog or something. Without having any personal stake on it at all. Meanwhile you can go the actual game's forums and see that actual backers that only backed it because of Wii U are an extremely small base of it. And those that are, they can still ask for a refund, or they can be smart and just wait for August to get all the money they invested back and some profit on top. They can be outraged, never back one of the dev's projects again, but this is a non-issue all around.

If you want to stop talking about it, no one is stopping you.

 

[_machine]

That poster Wavebossa posted just above you is already false advertising.

I'm off to sleep, but let me but in one final time. A poster like that or an ability to pre-order a non-existing product is not legally speaking false advertising. There is no final transfer of money or a sale, and pre-orders are generally the responsibility of the selling party. As a backer from 2011 and experience in game business and some legal aspects, I can say for sure that there is nothing here that is even close to grounds for any legal action whatsover. That doesn't mean that it's been handled well, but legally speaking nothing wrong has been done.

 

[Mael]

I'm off to sleep, but let me but in one final time. A poster like that or an ability to pre-order a non-existing product is not legally speaking false advertising. There is no final transfer of money or a sale, and pre-orders are generally the responsibility of the selling party. As a backer from 2011 and experience in game business and some legal aspects, I can say for sure that there is nothing here that is even close to grounds for any legal action whatsover. That doesn't mean that it's been handled well, but legally speaking nothing wrong has been done.

If we were talking about the legality of the thing we would be in a thread about how someone was suing SMS.

 

[cyberheater]

Hmm... still nothing official yet oddly enough.

They still have this on their main page in multiple places.

Well, I guess we will hear something soon

I agree with you that's pretty bad. They should really do something about that.

 

[_machine]

If we were talking about the legality of the thing we would be in a thread about how someone was suing SMS.

I'd argue that "blatant false-advertising" or "false-advertising" or "promise" implies some legal grounds. You shouldn't just throw these words without considering how they relate to actual practice rather than how people feel, even though people are free to feel betrayed or feel promised something they weren't actually done. But if you state factually that it happened it sort of implies that it would be legally true as well.

I also believe there are some more important points to consider, like if it's confirmed, why hasn't it been done by the usual channels and why their own information hasn't been updated to reflect, or why there has been discommunication regarding the matter lately even though we knew of the troubles for a while now through their official forums.

 

[tronic307]

Yes but ultimately the result was the same. They were cancelled and then replaced with the next gen versions on the respective consoles. Here they are cancelling the Wii U version and putting it on the next Nintendo console (they could well already be working on it now and it could be a launch title but we won't know until the console is officially unveiled).

There is virtually no difference, hence I don't get the outcry.

Would people have rather the game still come out on the Wii U while looking and running like shit? Or would people rather have that to bitch about instead of bitching about this news? Because that's what it ultimately comes down to here.

Do you really believe SMS just now determined that the Wii U couldn't handle their game after having access to devkits for a third of a decade? Why market the game to users of a platform that can't handle it? Here's a hint:

First result on Google=profit. Game isn't coming out yet they're still doing this.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

They should've never mentioned a Wii U version. They announced it at a time where Wii U was just launching and there was a bit of a drought so attention was on everything being announced or rumored for Wii U at the time.

 

[The Maverick]

I remember when this game was being used as an example that the Wii U was a powerful console and could handle Sim racers. Funny how things change.

 

[Interceptor]

Do you really believe SMS just now determined that the Wii U couldn't handle their game after having access to devkits for a third of a decade? Why market the game to users of a platform that can't handle it? Here's a hint:

First result on Google=$$$$ Game isn't coming out yet they're still doing this.

Polygon running with this headline should tell you all about this story there is.

 

[Shiggy]

Meh... got used to it. Wii U era is big eye opener. Always believed what devs are saying. With grain of salt of course. Blowing things out of proportion is expected ("you can do almost anything", "endless fun", "it runs butter smooth" and shit like that). But never thought consumers can be treated like shit. And Wii U owners are treated like shit... again.

Yeah there will be Wii U port. We promise. Eh we changed our mind ... fuck you.
Yeah the port is here. But no DLC\Multiplayer ... fuck you.
Yeah the game is finished. But you'll have to wait till we finish other ports... and fuck you.
Look we really support this console! Here's CoD, Batman, Mass Effect for ya. Happy? This thing really have potential and our heads are filled with ideas how to utilise this new gamepad. Several months later... we don't like it anymore ... fuck you.

No big surprise that project Cars is skipping Wii U too.

It got to a point where no footage = don't believe you.

This has a history across for Nintendo platforms.

GameCube buyers were lured by Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo for example. Or on Wii I was promised Project Zero 4, even seeing ads for that.

 

[Astral Dog]

Damn, Wii U is such poor hardware, should not be a surprise, a shame about the people waiting for this because it could had been fun. Wii U can have pretty games but its limitations are always going to hold it back. (mostly third party wise)

still, on the bright side im sure NX is going to get something

 

[Wavebossa]

still, on the bright side im sure NX is going to get something

While that is a bright side, its only a bright side for those who are going to purchase that system (whatever it will be).

As I said earlier, there is no guarantee that every Wii U user is going to get an NX, just like not every Wii user bought a Wii U.

 

[SND]

Do you really believe SMS just now determined that the Wii U couldn't handle their game after having access to devkits for a third of a decade? Why market the game to users of a platform that can't handle it? Here's a hint:

First result on Google=$$$$ Game isn't coming out yet they're still doing this.

You have literally no idea how Google Search works. Bandai/SMS didn't buy this, and they're certainly not paying for Polygon to show up when you search the WiiU. That's google algo serving content they believe to be relevant to you based on past searches and content clicks.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

While I was hopeful for it and in support of it the lack of footage for the Wii-U version was kind of a sign really. Ah well.

 

[Nairume]

This has a history across for Nintendo platforms.

GameCube buyers were lured by Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo for example. Or on Wii I was promised Project Zero 4, even seeing ads for that.

For the Kameo comparison to work, Rare would have had to keep promising it was coming to Gamecube long after they were sold to Microsoft.

 

[jroc74]

You have literally no idea how Google Search works. Bandai/SMS didn't buy this, and they're certainly not paying for Polygon to show up when you search the WiiU. That's google algo serving content they believe to be relevant to you based on past searches and content clicks.

Or how search engines work in general...lol.

A good example is doing the same exact search in a search engine you dont or barely use.

I searched using Google - got the same Polygon result as above
Searching in Bing - I get results of where to buy a Wii U

 

[diffusionx]

This has a history across for Nintendo platforms.

GameCube buyers were lured by Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo for example. Or on Wii I was promised Project Zero 4, even seeing ads for that.

You were promised nothing. The back of a system box is not a contract. Plans change.

 

[nampad]

Kind of hilarious after SMS pimped the Wii U so much when they announced the version.

 

[Huff]

I have every system and was super interested in this game but I haven't bought it yet. But now I'm never going to trust this developer again because I note can't buy a wiiu version.

:rollseyes

 

[Mael]

I'd argue that "blatant false-advertising" or "false-advertising" or "promise" implies some legal grounds. You shouldn't just throw these words without considering how they relate to actual practice rather than how people feel, even though people are free to feel betrayed or feel promised something they weren't actually done. But if you state factually that it happened it sort of implies that it would be legally true as well.

I also believe there are some more important points to consider, like if it's confirmed, why hasn't it been done by the usual channels and why their own information hasn't been updated to reflect, or why there has been discommunication regarding the matter lately even though we knew of the troubles for a while now through their official forums.

Look, no need to think too deeply on this.
The poster is a clear ad (only missing the price, launch date(s) and usual copyright disclaimer), it contains false information.
=> false advertisement.

Do you really believe SMS just now determined that the Wii U couldn't handle their game after having access to devkits for a third of a decade? Why market the game to users of a platform that can't handle it? Here's a hint:

First result on Google=$$$$ Game isn't coming out yet they're still doing this.

You would have a point if the polygon article was a sponsored result, as it is it's really the top search which it could be for a number of reasons.
I don't think we can blame SMS for that (especially since it poorly reflect on them).

This has a history across for Nintendo platforms.

[ IMG]http://41.media.tumblr.com/e7a43cbe1221fee8185fe94d4aa5fa3f/tumblr_n74lx8B9Bt1shqlslo1_500.jpg[/IMG]
GameCube buyers were lured by Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo for example. Or on Wii I was promised Project Zero 4, even seeing ads for that.

I don't remember a KS project for DKR or Kameo though.
This is closer to Molyneux's Godus on PC than to NMH3's WiiU by Suda51.

 

[tronic307]

You have literally no idea how Google Search works. Bandai/SMS didn't buy this, and they're certainly not paying for Polygon to show up when you search the WiiU. That's google algo serving content they believe to be relevant to you based on past searches and content clicks.

Oh, I believe I do. I use SEO on my eBay listings, even putting keywords in the filenames of my photos to get traffic straight from Google to go from last to first page in eBay's engine. Search engine optimization is what pays the rent. You don't always have to buy traffic. A simple press release was all it took here. This cancellation is just more press for the game. Whether or not SMS ever intended to release the Wii U version, they've benefitted from the keyword for years, spammed it even, especially during the time when the console was new and controversial. If you announce a game for all platforms, every section of IGN will report on it. If you can't penetrate the market, blanket it.

 

[tbd]

Pretty disgusting. Period.

 

[TI82]

Pretty sure it was first PC only, then they added Wii U and 360/PS3 goals. Then resources were moved from last gen versions since they weren't performing well. Then we all assumed Wii U version was also dead since its basically the same power as a 360/PS3.

So really this shouldn't be a surprise. Wii U can't handle the game and likely never could. Take this as a lesson on the risk of crowd funding games.

 

[RibbedHero]

I'm astounded at how uninformed so many posters are.

A firm I consulted for announced at their analyst day that there were expanding production centres to LatAm. Five quarters later the plans were cancelled due to the realities of the situation and new developments. Investors are expected to know that things like this can happen, and if someone bought shares because of it, they can't sue if it didn't happen.

IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING, DONT INVEST. SIMPLE.

SMS's only mistake was being poor at predicting the future.

 

[Ceadeus]

Every game with substance can be downgraded and still be enjoyable for what it is.

This one is not.

 

[frequency]

I understand that things change and things get cancelled. Happens all the time. I just don't like that they kept reassuring that the Wii U version was okay and running well.

I just wish they were more forthcoming and didn't give false hope for such a long time. I doubt they intended to but that's how it turned out and I really wish the response wasn't then, "It was always just 'maybe' so blame yourself!"

 

[Shiggy]

For the Kameo comparison to work, Rare would have had to keep promising it was coming to Gamecube long after they were sold to Microsoft.

Nintendo still promised DKR would come at a point when the deal was close to get done.

You were promised nothing. The back of a system box is not a contract. Plans change.

You weren't promised anything here either. There was no contract that guaranteed a Wii U version. The back of a system box is as much of a promise to the user as a developer saying that a port will happen.

I don't remember a KS project for DKR or Kameo though.
This is closer to Molyneux's Godus on PC than to NMH3's WiiU by Suda51.

I don't remember a Kickstarter project for CARS either. It was more an investment project, which is significantly different.

Anyway, in both cases users made an investment. One time into a console expecting to get certain games, the other time into the PC version of a racer expecting a port for their system. In both cases there were marketing material in the hands of end users that made a release probable.

You may argue that CARS wouldn't have happened without the investment from Wii U fans. Then again, these get their initial investment plus profits back. GCN users didn't get anything despite being promised a game just as SMS did.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

This is a fantastic way to poison the well. People who saw the original Wii U/PC pitch and backed this expecting a Wii U version aren't going to rush to back any more of their projects.

 

[kiuo]

While that is a bright side, its only a bright side for those who are going to purchase that system (whatever it will be).

As I said earlier, there is no guarantee that every Wii U user is going to get an NX, just like not every Wii user bought a Wii U.

To add to this, why wait for the nx when they might as well just get a ps4 or x1, at this point.

 

[Nairume]

Nintendo still promised DKR would come at a point when the deal was close to get done.

And yet they stopped as soon as the deal was done.

For it to be the same situation as this, Nintendo would have kept hyping it well into 2004.

 

[Mael]

I don't remember a Kickstarter project for CARS either. It was more an investment project, which is significantly different.

Anyway, in both cases users made an investment. One time into a console expecting to get certain games, the other time into the PC version of a racer expecting a port for their system. In both cases there were marketing material in the hands of end users that made a release probable.

You may argue that CARS wouldn't have happened without the investment from Wii U fans. Then again, these get their initial investment plus profits back. GCN users didn't get anything despite being promised a game just as SMS did.

You are correct in that CARS wasn't on KS (my mistake), however there's a significant difference between this and cancelled games.
The difference between KS and what SMS did is basically the difference between an actual investment and a donation.
I don't think I have to explain how Sony promising TLG on ps3 and not being able to make it is different to the case at hand.
Buying a console to get a game is actually buying a console.
Investing on a project to fund a project to get an expected result is something else entirely, I don't think that legally they're even close to the same thing.
For example 1rst sale doctrine doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand.
I don't think Nintendo ever tried to make its customers investors (it's certainly a possibility since Nintendo is publicly traded).

 

[grosvenor_92]

At least they said something instead of going quiet and saying nothing about it

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You are correct in that CARS wasn't on KS (my mistake), however there's a significant difference between this and cancelled games.
The difference between KS and what SMS did is basically the difference between an actual investment and a donation.
I don't think I have to explain how Sony promising TLG on ps3 and not being able to make it is different to the case at hand.
Buying a console to get a game is actually buying a console.
Investing on a project to fund a project to get an expected result is something else entirely, I don't think that legally they're even close to the same thing.
For example 1rst sale doctrine doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand.
I don't think Nintendo ever tried to make its customers investors (it's certainly a possibility since Nintendo is publicly traded).

No investors were promised console versions. SMS delivered what they promised to their investors. The console versions were announced off the back of the PC version. In that sense, I don't see it as any different to any other game that is cancelled or changes platform.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

They can expect a few lawsuits, that's the way these things tend to go.

 

[Mael]

No investors were promised console versions. SMS delivered what they promised to their investors. The console versions were announced off the back of the PC version. In that sense, I don't see it as any different to any other game that is cancelled or changes platform.

They're still advertising that version...

 

[MUnited83]

They can expect a few lawsuits, that's the way these things tend to go.

Not really, there's zero legal ground for it. Zero is also the numbers of people who would actually try to sue.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They're still advertising that version...

They haven't officially cancelled it. When they do I'm sure they will stop doing that. The point is that nobody is out any money if they cancel it, just like with nearly every other cancelled game in the history of gaming. Yeah it will suck for people that are looking forward to it, but it sucks for people that are looking forward to it whenever a game is canned. Were there maybe some people that funded the game hoping it would eventually come to Wii U? Sure. But there were also probably some people that bought a PS3 for The Last Guardian, or bought a Gamecube for Kameo and Donkey Kong Racing. That kind of stuff happens.

 

[Mael]

They haven't officially cancelled it. When they do I'm sure they will stop doing that. The point is that nobody is out any money if they cancel it, just like with nearly every other cancelled game in the history of gaming. Yeah it will suck for people that are looking forward to it, but it sucks for people that are looking forward to it whenever a game is canned. Were there maybe some people that funded the game hoping it would eventually come to Wii U? Sure. But there were also probably some people that bought a PS3 for The Last Guardian, or bought a Gamecube for Kameo and Donkey Kong Racing. That kind of stuff happens.

I guess it's ok if Molyneux is fleecing people to donate to his game.
You do get that what people are discussing in this thread is not that the game is canceled but the abysmal PR from SMS.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/WMD_Overview_160212.pdf

This is the original overview pitch pdf for their crowdfunding portal announcing Project CARS as the first project back in 2012. Check out pages 16, 19, 28, and 36. Especially page 28.

Devs are full of it and are deserving of the incoming shitstorm should this pan out.

This is the second news that was ever posted on their website, beginning of 2014: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/home/which-platform-are-you-getting-project-cars-on

Together with the following poll:

Which platform are you going to get Project CARS on?
Xbox One
PlayStation 4
Windows
Wii U
Steam OS

Results: 28,69 Percent for Wii U, 23,61 Percent Steam OS, 23,07 Percent Windows, 18,21 Percent PlayStation 4 and 6,42 Percent Xbox One.

Yikes, this is even worse.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I guess it's ok if Molyneux is fleecing people to donate to his game.
You do get that what people are discussing in this thread is not that the game is canceled but the abysmal PR from SMS.

I don't get any correlation between what is happening here and what Molyneux is doing. SMS delivered what they promised to their backers. They might be doing a poor job of communicating the status of the Wii U version, but that's hardly worthy of some of the vitriol you see being spewed their way, especially when most of it seems to be coming from misinformation, people still thinking the Wii U version was some kind of stretch goal, t that they ripped investors off, talk of lawsuits and legal action, things that are simply not true.

 

[Goldenmoney]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but I seem to remember the dev team hyping this game up on Wii U quite a bit. Seems a little bit dishonest if you ask me.

 

[PtM]

It would be really impressive to see it running on a handheld.

This joke needs to be taken to the backyard already.

This has a history across for Nintendo platforms.

GameCube buyers were lured by Donkey Kong Racing and Kameo for example. Or on Wii I was promised Project Zero 4, even seeing ads for that.

Pretty sure this is not exclusive to any platform/corp/we.

Anyway, in both cases users made an investment. One time into a console expecting to get certain games, the other time into the PC version of a racer expecting a port for their system. In both cases there were marketing material in the hands of end users that made a release probable.

You may argue that CARS wouldn't have happened without the investment from Wii U fans. Then again, these get their initial investment plus profits back. GCN users didn't get anything despite being promised a game just as SMS did.

Going off topic, but smh at people who buy a console for unreleased games.

I guess it's ok if Molyneux is fleecing people to donate to his game.
You do get that what people are discussing in this thread is not that the game is canceled but the abysmal PR from SMS.

whynotboth.gif People are discussing lots of things in this thread, don't pretend otherwise.

 

[catmario]

Welp. At least SMS still want to bring their game on Nintendo platform. Just not for WiiU. I'll wait for NX version. (maybe Project Cars 2?)

 

[Brazil]

Fucking disgusting, SMS. I will not buy a different version of the game, and I most certainly won't ever invest money in your crowdfunding campaigns.

Hell, last month devs were still talking to the press about how they were having problems with the Wii U version, but that it was definitely still coming. Completely dishonest behavior.

 

[R_thanatos]

I agree with most people here, this situation , for wii u owners is sad.

And as far as crowd funding projects goes, i applaud bloodstained that didn't actually went out of his way to promise wii U ( because they knew it wouldn't work )

And that's the right thing ..don't put strech goals ( even late in dev ) that you don't even have a clue you could meet.

Project cars 2 will be so beautifull and prefect that the NX won't be able to run it .. i 'll bookmark this post and link it when the inévitable will happen, in 2017,2018

 

[jroc74]

Welp. At least SMS still want to bring their game on Nintendo platform. Just not for WiiU. I'll wait for NX version. (maybe Project Cars 2?)

I doubt it. If they are going by specs and saying it wasnt gonna work for Wii U....unless the NX home console is close to XB1 in some specs...its not coming at all to Nintendo consoles. Anytime soon. If at all. You would be better off waiting for Nintendo to do a sim racer themselves.

I agree with most people here, this situation , for wii u owners is sad.

And as far as crowd funding projects goes, i applaud bloodstained that didn't actually went out of his way to promise wii U ( because they knew it wouldn't work )

And that's the right thing ..don't put strech goals ( even late in dev ) that you don't even have a clue you could meet.

Project cars 2 will be so beautifull and prefect that the NX won't be able to run it .. i 'll bookmark this post and link it when the inévitable will happen, in 2017,2018

I agree with this.

But yea....be realistic in what you think you can deliver. Communication is so under rated these days.

 

[Overside]

I'm astounded at how uninformed so many posters are.

A firm I consulted for announced at their analyst day that there were expanding production centres to LatAm. Five quarters later the plans were cancelled due to the realities of the situation and new developments. Investors are expected to know that things like this can happen, and if someone bought shares because of it, they can't sue if it didn't happen.

IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING, DONT INVEST. SIMPLE.

SMS's only mistake was being poor at predicting the future.

There is a lesson to be learned here.