Weltall Zero
Member
It's not just that they're innovative, it's that even when they're doing "more of the same", that "same" is wildly different from other companies' AAA games.
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Nintendo's Innovation Is Overrated
- Thread starter jhmtehgamr20xx
- Start date
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
All this bait
But theres plenty of that in splatoon.
But theres plenty of that in splatoon.
SuperDowns
Banned
This. Or Apple or [insert company here].
I don't think people are in love with their "innovation" so much as their raw products. The fact is, they produce really polished, clean, fun games that are SOMETIMES innovative and most of the time just really enjoyable one way or another. Innovation is a nebulous term these days anyway. I think polish is more important, and that's why people value Nintendo.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
So making an arena team battle game in the gameplay style of Qix isn't innovative? Ok....
silver.tongue
Member
With the exception of the second screen thing you got it all wrong imo.
Space Medafighter X
Member
My number 1 problem with Little Big Planet is that it controls terribly, I even prefer Yoshi's handling.
Also I do remember the massive amount of poo levels made. But you are right, LBP did do it first I guess.
I came into this thread wondering if that was the OP's intentions but he made a very nuanced post and you respond with this childish picture?
*rolls eyes*
Jhmtehgamr20xx you misspoke with the title. You acknowledge they have been innovative but they haven't done anything since the Wii U launched that you feel was innovative other than Splatoon.
Too a large degree I agree. Ubisoft has taken better advantage of their new controller better than they did but ultimately that's not important. Nintendo can innovate within existing genres by pushing the boundaries of what you can do within it.
In that case you can also include Super Mario 3D World in general (since it is brimming with a ton of new ideas) and Smash's Mii training AI as a very limited innovation.
Also Nintendo deserves a lot of credit for making Free to play mechanics actually compelling with Rusty's Real Deal Baseball and for experimenting with morse code communication in their other little talked about shooter Steel Diver.
Chû Totoro
Member
That why I love Nintendo threads... wait I don't :'(
balladofwindfishes
Member
What's the funniest part about this sentence is that every main Mario game from SMB to Sunshine had a new powerup on the box
Why?
Play games. Have fun. Leave the system warz nonsense to the grade schoolers.
You say you don't have a Wii U, but have you played one? Sounds like you back up your argument mostly with how these games appear to be to you and not so much with any personal experience with them.
For example:
You're arguing about what people thought about a game upon it's announcement, before anyone could have played it.
Nintendo's so-called "innovation" isn't so much about what its games are titled or what they appear to play like. It's about how they actually play. I think in these cases it's more about clever level-design and user interface. Yeah, they're all Mario games or Zelda games, but each one has a life of its own with new ideas and designs in each level that push the imagination in regards to what can be done in a game and how it can be played. Try some out and you might be surprised at what you find. A lot more changed going from Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword than Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.
For example:
You're arguing about what people thought about a game upon it's announcement, before anyone could have played it.
Nintendo's so-called "innovation" isn't so much about what its games are titled or what they appear to play like. It's about how they actually play. I think in these cases it's more about clever level-design and user interface. Yeah, they're all Mario games or Zelda games, but each one has a life of its own with new ideas and designs in each level that push the imagination in regards to what can be done in a game and how it can be played. Try some out and you might be surprised at what you find. A lot more changed going from Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword than Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.
seems like most people here are using the word "innovation" wrong.
The last real innovation on the entire Games Market was Dual Screen Gaming and Motion Gaming, everything else is everything but not innovative.
To be honest there was no Gaming Innovation in the last 8 Years from all three.
Nintendo used to be innovative (till WiiU and 3DS happend)
Sony was never innovative (realy never)
MS Kinect was innovative.
But common i don´t remember any game that was innovative. Every thing in the last Years only add something small to the old formulars.
And look at the PS4, People realy don´t want innovation.
The last real innovation on the entire Games Market was Dual Screen Gaming and Motion Gaming, everything else is everything but not innovative.
To be honest there was no Gaming Innovation in the last 8 Years from all three.
Nintendo used to be innovative (till WiiU and 3DS happend)
Sony was never innovative (realy never)
MS Kinect was innovative.
But common i don´t remember any game that was innovative. Every thing in the last Years only add something small to the old formulars.
And look at the PS4, People realy don´t want innovation.
As expected this thread is getting ugly quite fast.
Innovation is important, but developing games that are fun is their No. 1 priority. If they can include new stuff... Cool but otherwise they also aren't afraid to stick to their guns and give people what they expect.
Being innovative isn't always popular, they get a lot of hate for coming up with new control schemes on games like Kid Icarus Uprising or the upcoming Star Fox... Man gamers hated Skyward Sword because of the motion controls.
Also being innovative doesn't mean that you can constant push out game redefining innovation... No one is able to that.. Not Amazon, Google or Apple... Can't redefine the wheel every year on you command of the tech just isn't ready yet for bigger leaps.
Innovation is important, but developing games that are fun is their No. 1 priority. If they can include new stuff... Cool but otherwise they also aren't afraid to stick to their guns and give people what they expect.
Being innovative isn't always popular, they get a lot of hate for coming up with new control schemes on games like Kid Icarus Uprising or the upcoming Star Fox... Man gamers hated Skyward Sword because of the motion controls.
Also being innovative doesn't mean that you can constant push out game redefining innovation... No one is able to that.. Not Amazon, Google or Apple... Can't redefine the wheel every year on you command of the tech just isn't ready yet for bigger leaps.
Aaronrules380
Member
Innovation isn't just creating new genres or doing something totally new. I'd call Mario Maker innovative in it's approach to the idea of a level editor, and in it's incredibly intuitive user interface. The idea of Mario Maker is not innovative, but the execution is
darkazcura
Member
I think you have this reversed. in the past (not so much anymore), I never saw anyone critique developers for yearly Assassin's Creed and COD games, but always saw people critique Nintendo for "rehashing" Mario's and Zelda's, even though there is 2 main line Mario games per generation if that. I've never seen anyone saying anything about multiple Uncharted games or Halo games, but I gotta say 3 Uncharted games is a heck of a lot more than one Sunshine or one 3D World. The two Galaxy games is the first time Nintendo released two mainline Mario games since when? The SNES? Yet you hear how Nintendo makes too many Mario games. Meh. I don't think any of the Uncharted games, Mario games, or Halo games are overdone. It's really the annual franchises that you hear criticism for, which is kind of odd to me still. If people enjoy yearly AC games, then that's good for them.
Your criticism is a bit odd, though, since it's pretty clear Nintendo doesn't do the same thing with their franchises. You can't combine 2D and 3D Mario games under one umbrella. They have different fanbases and are completely different games.
We get literally one new mainline 2D/3D Mario game per console, sometimes two if we're lucky. Same goes for Zelda. Everything else is a spin-off. Meanwhile there were 3 Uncharted games on PS3, and 4 Halos, 4 Gears and 5 Forza games on 360. That's why Nintnedo gets a pass, because they don't do the "exact same thing".
Nintendo for some reason brings out anger in people. I just don't get it.
Aaronrules380
Member
ONly if you're talking about huge game changing innovations that have broad industry aspects. But that's not the only type of innovation that exists. innovation csn be putting a new and exciting twist on an old concept, doing something that's been done before in a new way, etc. Being innovative and iterative aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, because by that logic, pretty much nothing is ever innovative
Spieler Eins
Member
Mario Maker is so innovative, they are only 7 years late on LBP.
I mean, one could have a point for innovation within the series if that was the title that came right at WiiU launch. But they thought they still had that Wii Fit audience with the WiiU and instead just lazily rehashed a bunch of old 2D platformers, handheld- and minigames in the least innovative way possible, with some worthless touch screen tacked on to pretend that they did something new, while in reality they put no thought into this. The WiiU was originally a very cynical cash grab, there is no innovation anymore.
Triforce141
Member
I don't care for innovation all that much, it's pretty important in games, but as long as the product is well done and polished to shine, then it's good in my book. There's nothing wrong with playing it safe.
Let's do this, my friend!
Splatoon isn't *just* a TPS. It's innovative insofar as the main mode is about covering turf with paint rather than shooting other players. The mechanics of the gameplay are completely different.
Mario Maker offers level creation that is much simpler and more accessible than LBP did, with diverse and familiar mechanics across an already-established massive franchise.
Nintendo Land is a collection of minigames, yes, but that is reductive. Within these minigames you have some extensive innovation using the second screen. A few examples:
-Co-op Pikmin where one player controls Olimar and Pikmin using the touch screen and another watches the TV to control their Pikmin.
-Competitive Luigi's Mansion attraction wherein one player controls a ghost on the GamePad to chase the characters moving around on the TV screen.
-New spin on DK Arcade utilizing gyro.
-Animal Crossing competition where one player uses dual sticks to chase the players moving around on the TV screen. Each stick on the GamePad controls a separate police officer. The players on the TV screen are trying to collect candy, but the more fruit they get, the more it weighs them down and makes them more move slowly when trying to traverse the landscape and outrun the police officers, so they need to periodically poop out candy in order to speed up, but decrease their score in doing so.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
If you haven't played Nintendo Land, you're really missing out! Many of these attractions offer an immense amount of content.
Aaronrules380
Member
Also, a new IP isn't necessarily more innovative than a new game in an established franchise. Generic CoD clone may be a new IP, but it's still way less innovative than Mario 3D Land was for instance
Strangelove77
Member
Nintendo is innovative. Whether you enjoy the innovative games or parts of those games or find them actually useful or even necessary is entirely a different thing. Sometimes they make gaming better, sometimes worse.
Miiverse itself is innovative, but to me it's also stupid and pointless.
Wii Fit was innovative, and I enjoyed that very much.
Just different opinions.
Miiverse itself is innovative, but to me it's also stupid and pointless.
Wii Fit was innovative, and I enjoyed that very much.
Just different opinions.
You switched back and forth occasionally. I meant time travel in conjunction with time management. The two are very different. I can see how I could have worded it better, though, sorry.
Pretty much what I wanted to say. I don't think Nintendo's innovation is overrated.
Just overstated by overzealous fans who become blind to everything else.
This statement is totally wrong. It seems like you don't believe innovation applies to changes in software. It does.
I would say their only recent title that really struck me as innovative was Splatoon, however, I still absolutely love their games. Innovation as a whole is a tricky subject, as there are only so many things that haven't been done before. You could invent an iPad with a toaster built into it and it wouldn't really count as innovative, just a new (and extremely odd) take on already existing ideas. Fresh takes on existing ideas are more than welcome though.
Cropduster89
Neo Member
Recent output definitely. But over the course of the last 30 years they've innovated more than anyone. Not single handedly, but often ahead of the curve, neck and neck with other devs at the time.
Honestly I think many of the legendary in-house Nintendo titles are vastly overrated, and the reverence comes down to nintendo's market share of the US in the 90s rather than actual quality when compared to other titles. But to discredit their innovation, and how that's got us to where we are now is pretty ignorant and clickbaity. 9/10.
Honestly I think many of the legendary in-house Nintendo titles are vastly overrated, and the reverence comes down to nintendo's market share of the US in the 90s rather than actual quality when compared to other titles. But to discredit their innovation, and how that's got us to where we are now is pretty ignorant and clickbaity. 9/10.
silvermember
Banned
The point of gaming is to be fun not innovative. Just because something is innovative does not make it fun.
Op let's assume you are correct, it doesn't change the fact that nintendo make games that can appeal to kids and adults.
In any case they are innovative, splatoon is an innovative game within the tps.
Op let's assume you are correct, it doesn't change the fact that nintendo make games that can appeal to kids and adults.
In any case they are innovative, splatoon is an innovative game within the tps.
also are people seriously trying to say Splatoon isn't innovative? because whaaaaa?
point me in the direction of the gryo-assisted TPS that has the same objective and movement mechanics as Splatoon. I'd love to see what I've been missing out on!
This post is like me hating on the Last of Us without having played it
Ignorance is bliss
I don't know how to respond to "LOL Miiverse" because that's not exactly a response that invites debate.
They pioneered all of the items I listed insofar as they found a way to bring them into the mainstream with mass appeal. Except for Second Screen Gaming, which they didn't really manage to give mass appeal, except maybe on DS. The difference with the Apple example is that I'm not saying Nintendo invented any of this. I just meant pioneer in the sense of trailblazing a way for the technology to garner mainstream utilization. Apologies if I used the wrong word.
Do tell! I'm open to hearing why.
When I think of Nintendo innovation, I think of this.
Innovation for the sake of innovation.
How can that be when their games get high scores consistently?
balladofwindfishes
Member
As someone whose playing LBP2 right before playing Mario Maker today... uhh... LBP's creation parts are pretty bad. Hours of tutorials, an incredibly robust editor, but ends up being a little too complicated for its own good. The physics of LBP are also frustrating, and simple objects like water are behind DLC pay walls.
LBP is a good game and a good tool, but the core mechanics of the game are pretty messy and the building part is a little off putting for casual players.
Also in that 7 years, where has the LBP series gone?
yes wou are right, there are alwas small innovations but these are more sidenotes (in this role NIntendo is doing a real good job). Reading the OT sounds more like he is talking about real innovations and these are fading in this industry/Business.
Let's do this, my friend!
Splatoon isn't *just* a TPS. It's innovative insofar as the main mode is about covering turf with paint rather than shooting other players. The mechanics of the gameplay are completely different.
Mario Maker offers level creation that is much simpler and more accessible than LBP did, with diverse and familiar mechanics across an already-established massive franchise.
Nintendo Land is a collection of minigames, yes, but that is reductive. Within these minigames you have some extensive innovation using the second screen. A few examples:
-Co-op Pikmin where one player controls Olimar and Pikmin using the touch screen and another watches the TV to control their Pikmin.
-Competitive Luigi's Mansion attraction wherein one player controls a ghost on the GamePad to chase the characters moving around on the TV screen.
-New spin on DK Arcade utilizing gyro.
-Animal Crossing competition where one player uses dual sticks to chase the players moving around on the TV screen. Each stick on the GamePad controls a separate police officer. The players on the TV screen are trying to collect candy, but the more fruit they get, the more it weighs them down and makes them more move slowly when trying to traverse the landscape and outrun the police officers, so they need to periodically poop out candy in order to speed up, but decrease their score in doing so.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
If you haven't played Nintendo Land, you're really missing out! Many of these attractions offer an immense amount of content.
Maxcriden, the best PR man of Nintendo
Always well argumented too.try again!
I'd be curious to hear your explanation as to what bad they've done for gaming.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
I think they are pretty innovative.
Now, I don't think "innovation" has inherent value. & sometimes we mistake "novelty" for "innovation." Just because you've never done something before doesn't make it automatically worth doing.
I'm more frustrated by their business decisions than anything else, personally, but their reputation as frequently trying new (sometimes good, sometimes bad) stuff is well-deserved.
Now, I don't think "innovation" has inherent value. & sometimes we mistake "novelty" for "innovation." Just because you've never done something before doesn't make it automatically worth doing.
I'm more frustrated by their business decisions than anything else, personally, but their reputation as frequently trying new (sometimes good, sometimes bad) stuff is well-deserved.
People? Only one person in this thread so far said Splatoon wasn't innovative.
Even the OP said Splatoon was innovative.
His problem is that Nintendo hasn't done anything on the Wii U that should give people faith that Nintendo still has their touch on making more innovations than their contemporaries.
