You mean, like, the table printed on the box?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Nintendo's lack of controller standardization is a MESS.
- Thread starter boiled goose
- Start date
You mean, like, the table printed on the box?
Mikey Jr.
Member
How long does the charge last, playing cod for example?
You think the parents and non-gaming partners of the world are looking at the back of the box and making heads or tails of which controller schemes that particular game works with?
I cant think of any game off the top of my head that does that, unless you are changing something in options. Or just doing it wrong and thinking you have to hold it down, when you actually dont.
Every game I own or played that has run on the sticks is a toggle run. The only game I can think of ever that let you hold down a clickable stick at all was maybe previous halos for crouch, but you could change it to toggle in the options. Maybe Killzone as well? cant remeber.
COD, BF3, ZombiU, Halo and all previous iterations that had running have been toggle run iirc.
I've worked game retail, and they're far better at it than actual gamers. If you don't know the flavor of the month you're probably not assuming that every. Single. Title. is built around it.
Not to mention, at least with the Wii/WiiU every single title is nominally playable SP with either the game or the system packins, right?
PataHikari
Banned
they should remove the enter key and left mouse button on PC, just to try something new.
PataHikari
Banned
Those aren't toys though, they're tools.
You mean Nintendo or the controllers?
I wanted to use some coins to get Mario Party 2 on Club Nintendo to play on a friend's Wii U, but that idea was instantly tossed out when I realized that the Wii U doesn't support GCN controllers or the Wii U Pro Controller while in Wii mode. As much as I love Mario Party 2, I'm not shelling out for 4 Wii classic controllers... What a joke.
PataHikari
Banned
Alright, gottcha!
Sony's evolution to the original PlayStation controller has the advantage of refusing to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" in their approach. The DualShock 3 is better than the DualShock 2, etc, due to a bunch of improvements rather than radical redesigns every generation. It might seem less ambitious, but they've developed a steady vocabulary with their controller. We've seen pressure-sensitive buttons, dual-joysticks, rumble feedback, standardized bluetooth syncing, built-in rechargable batteries, improved triggers, and more get added over the years. Microsoft has done similar things with their controllers and I can only expect better with the 720/PS4 controllers we'll get.
I like the refinement approach, and I can still get a Move, Kinect, tablet, Vita, etc, for all my motion gaming and second-screen needs too.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I disagree, I think their analog triggers are terrible as well as the dpad (note - it's more of the DS3 dpad - the DS2 dpad is pretty good). Also didn't they omit pressure-sensitive buttons? So yeah, it's not sunshine and rainbows as your post shows. Also the Sixaxis was really inaccurate - I had a bad experience with RnC ToD and Lair (shudder) for that.
Also I don't get the "analog for fps = gud". Hey you people who play fps with mouse - you suck!
Also I don't get the "analog for fps = gud". Hey you people who play fps with mouse - you suck!
Only I never said the DualShock 3 couldn't be improved. In fact, I said the opposite- I look forward to more refinements and not a radical redesign. I simply think making improvements to the controller versus starting from scratch is a better design philosophy for the games I've been playing since 1994.
I personally find the d-pad to be fine, but the Vita's d-pad is certainly the best around for my tastes. The triggers are great for racing games but could use some tweaking, and I've never taken issue with the DS3 joysticks.
This is incorrect. The DualShock 3 has pressure-sensitive buttons (six of them, in fact). I played MGS2 and 3 HD and used them.
I'd blame Lair for the poor use of Sixaxis versus the controller itself. I used Sixaxis for Warhawk, Flower, Uncharted grenade throwing, GTAIV reloading, Motorstorm driving, etc.
BadAss2961
Member
Yet unlike Nintendo's controllers, the Dual Shock isn't missing anything.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Eh, Dual Shock 1 is still the best Sony controller, no pressure sensitive buttons, and better shoulder buttons than DS3. They pretty much failed in all their attempts to add new functionality
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hell no - I disagree on the Vita Dpad. If anything it's only better than the PSP, 360 and DSLite Dpad. It's so pudgy and less accurate compared to the other Dpad peers. Then again I'm the only one who thinks the Vita Dpad is shitty and the machine itself could lend some ergonomic redesign.
And the DS3 dpad suffers from being... I can't seem to put my finger on it... I think it's a bit slippery? Like I have no trouble with the dpad of the DS2 but somehow I'm averse on touching it save for fighting games (and even then DS2 dpad feels much better for fighting games).
And they still have pressure sensitivity huh? I thought they removed it.
I thought 2 was the solid of the trio but that's because they finally learned how to use the analog sticks in their games.
And the DS3 dpad suffers from being... I can't seem to put my finger on it... I think it's a bit slippery? Like I have no trouble with the dpad of the DS2 but somehow I'm averse on touching it save for fighting games (and even then DS2 dpad feels much better for fighting games).
And they still have pressure sensitivity huh? I thought they removed it.
I thought 2 was the solid of the trio but that's because they finally learned how to use the analog sticks in their games.
Yeah, and that's what I hope people understand my point is. I'm not saying the DualShock 3 is the best controller that'll ever be made, I just think Sony & Microsoft go about controller design in a way that's more geared towards engineering improvements & adding functionality rather than coming at each console with completely new angles of attack, so to speak. It works in the long-term when you consider simplicity and familiarity.
I swear I've played at least one that did that, but yeah, could've had an option to change it. Even as a toggle it gets tiring though, pushing that stick in constantly takes more effort out than any of the other buttons. Which is why I like it for UI or background stuff and not really for integral mechanics.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also people talk as though MS didn't drastically alter their controller (for good). Or do you want me to bring the SPACESHIP CONTROLLER?
In any case let's just agree that controllers in general are funky.
In any case let's just agree that controllers in general are funky.
It doesn't have an IR pointer, gyro or touch screen .
Who wants "standardization" if it means there are never any new form factor or features added ?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
They're "useless" features.
To each their own, right? I love that d-pad.
Nope, it's there. It's why launch PS3s had absolutely no issue playing all PS2 & PSone games.
I don't want to focus on what the "best controller" is as much as I want to focus on the benefits of the refinement philosophy. Microsoft heard people hating on the "Duke" and immediately went for the DualShock 2 form factor as quickly as they could, but all Xbox controllers still have the same core control tenants, buttons, joysticks, etc. The molding is just consistently improved and refined.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Too bad they never learned proper dpad style!
Yeah I'm also the only one who'd say that the sticks could use some "flattening", not to the extent of a circle pad but not so much that it's sticking out like in current vita.
I'm surprised they never put much in pressure sensitivity in games. Only time I found it used was in MGS3 and SO3.
Yeah I'm also the only one who'd say that the sticks could use some "flattening", not to the extent of a circle pad but not so much that it's sticking out like in current vita.
I'm surprised they never put much in pressure sensitivity in games. Only time I found it used was in MGS3 and SO3.
SpoonyBard
Banned
The analog sticks were identical in DS1 and DS2. I actually played quite many PS2 games with DS1, because you didn't have to worry about pressure sensitivity. There weren't many games that used pressure sensitivity, but if was annoying in some games. At least if you held the controller loosely, it was difficult to tell when you were pressing the buttons hard enough.
I remember Gran Turismo used it a bit, MGS2 as well. I'm embarrassed to admit I used it in this game, too. Hold R2 harder to fly faster!
The DualShock 2 didn't have recessed triggers, so pressure sensitivity was the PS2's way of laying on the gas for racing & flying. I think Ace Combat on the PS2 miiiight have used pressure sensitivity, but I could be mistaken.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
tbqh I never really got pressure sensitivity/analog trigger for racing, since I never had that problem when playing racing games with a keyboard or even a regular controller.
It's more akin to driving a real car or go kart, really. More pressure=more gas, faster turns with lower torque, etc.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Can't that be achieved with transmission and brakes?
Then again that makes more sense than the "analog triggers for shooting". Now that one doesn't make sense especially when PCs don't have triggers and it's the premiere machine for FPS.
Well, let me put it to you this way: when I'm coming out of turn in real life in my Chevy, I don't immediately apply all pressure possible to my gas pedal. I progressively push more and more until I hit the speed I want. That's why pressure sensitive buttons and analog triggers make sense for driving.
Yeah, I think this is why the folks at Sony designed the DualShock 3 triggers that way, to sort of walk-the-line. The DualShock 4 (or whatever) will still probably have recessed triggers similar to the 360, though, as it seems everyone and their mother wants them.
The original PS1 controllers didn't have rumble or even a single analogue stick. The PSP was missing a second analogue and secondary shoulder buttons (whatever that means, Vita has this "problem"as well). Move lacks a second analogue stick. Sixaxis doesn't have rumble. In fact I can argue that outside of the PS2 every controller Sony released in a beginning of a generation was missing features, that fact that they are comfortable and familiar doesn't change that fact.
Yes it does: if it did have another analogue stick the 3DS would be as big as the XL but have the same battery as the standard unit. The slide pad unit is almost as thick as the 3DS bottom half itself.Choosing digital over analog triggers provides no benefit. Choosing one analog stick on the 3DS over two provides no benefit. No one (at least in this thread) is going to complain about Nintendo experimenting with the formula of their controls, just when they random handicap their controllers in ways that have obvious negative outcomes
Playing something like Forza or GT5 with digital triggers would be a shit show. It's passable for arcade racers but for sims, you need analogue control.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
The Pro Controller actually does have rumble, yeah.
I was pretty surprised to find the controller vibrating when playing AC3 and the ZombiU multiplayer (which is a lot of fun btw).
Analog triggers are overrated IMO (!).
I only use them in Metal Gear. In every racing game I ever played it's always "PEDAL TO THE METAL!" for me and it always worked, offline as online.
But maybe that is because I grew up with digital input instead of analog.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But then wouldn't racing sims buy wheel and pedals?
Racers are going to be amazing on the Wii U.
Steer with the game pad, the screen acts as a mirror.
Accelerate and brake using the balance board.
Shift gears using the Wiimote.
Nunchuck can be used as ... I have no clue. Switching the radio, how about that?
And the 3DS can act as a make up kit to appeal to the female crowd.
It is going to be amazing.
Agent X
Member
Of course. The original PlayStation controller was the starting point. Those features were added to later revisions of the controller.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'm guessing they will also be plugged into the Wii Remote?
I doubt they're in Wii
Then again I always think enthusiasts of a genre will buy the accessories that is essential to experience it (see: sticks for fighting fans).
I didn't "just" mention the PS1 controller though.
haha. I like this post.
Sure it does, it's developer dependent though.
Yes! Nunchuk for the hand brake of course.
Ah of course! How can I forget about that?! But what about the radio?
The next evolution in design:
PS Vita dpad is amazing, just needs some minor adjustments (increase size) to make it an awesome dpad on stand alone controllers
Must be the one of the few that not used analog shoulders extensively in Gamecube, the only game that I played and it was really useful was in R: Racing Evolution, in Rogue Leader I never needed control the speed that accurately, it always was go at normal speed or go fast, open the wings could be easily mapped as zR, in Sunshine it was the same, I remember taping the shoulder to spring water when I was short of whater, never used the analog capabilities much.