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[Griss]

Now that I've had both the Wii U and a PS4 for almost a year, my perspective on specs has changed.

With the Wii I was always upset at how far behind the PS3/360 it was. To this day I still wish we had had Galaxy, MP3 and the rest in HD at the least. Everytime I went back to the Wii there was a solid 2-3 hour period of getting used to muddy SD visuals again. Add in the fact that the games only looked slightly better than the Gamecube and it was a long 10 years of similar visuals for a Nintendo fan.

But now, with the Wii U, Nintendo games are in HD. And frankly, as long as it's HD, I don't care that it can't match the PS4 in raw numbers. I realise that for your photorealistic games the Wii U can't keep up. I realise that the Wii U can't do 1080p in the same games the PS4 can. But for Nintendo games? It's hard to imagine them looking better right now. Many of the most visually impressive games of this gen so far have been Wii U. Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World etc.

And if I feel this way, then I'm sure your casual consumer can barely notice a difference. They're all just 'HD games machines' to the casual. So from that point of view, I really couldn't care less if there isn't a massive boost to the specs of Nintendo's next console and I'm not sure what they'd gain with their core market, or the types of market they have lost and want to attract again.

Their handhelds, on the other hand, need to compete with mid-tier phones at least. Maybe not in raw specs, but good god give us a decent screen for once. The mass market is incredibly tech-sensitive with mobile devices these days. Everyone researches their next phone upgrade. Everyone knows what good industrial design in this area looks like now. Nintendo needs to compete with that, or make a 2DS style toy for children. It's one or the other. It still blows my mind that the DS Lite is a far more solid and more pleasing piece of design than the 3DS, and came 5 years before it. They went backwards, it's time to take a leap forwards.

I still don't believe that they'll make the same game and have it cross-release on both proposed future platforms. Nintendo has clear differences in their design philosophies for portable and home game experiences in many of their franchises. It's certainly a possibility, though.

 

[Canis lupus]

My vision:

Wii U successor:
-No gimmicks, no Gamepad, 3DS successor should be used for remote play
-Wii U pro controller is the official controller
-299 USD/EUR, all of the budget goes towards the console hardware:
-16GB GDDR5 ram, x86 architecture, AMD APU with ~4-5TFLOP
-Holiday 2017, Nintendo should be able to sell a console with these specs for 299 without being a loss leader within 3 years


Marketing is towards the hardcore gamer, advertise it for being the fastest console ever that runs all games in 1080p Ultra settings, something PS4/Bone will probably struggle to achieve with multiplats in very high/ultra settings with 2017 games. Nintendo could garner lots of core gamers if they get the best versions of multiplat games. Going back to the core and courting 3rd parties to evoke the spirit of Nintendo during the Snes days.

Be disruptive, releasing 2 years prior to PS5 if it's a 2019 launch(6 year span). Releasing so early will also mean it'll barely keep up with PS5, relatively, it's power will be like the Dreamcast vs the Gamecube/Xbox. But that should be okay for Nintendo as long as they garner momentum during those 2 years and undercut the competition heavily whilst still making a profit.

 

[Diprosalic]

My vision:.

i would give them a year before going bankrupt.

 

[Darkstorne]

Please release an iPad Mini-sized tablet, with buttons and analogue sticks, as the next handheld console. Launch it with Pokemon Gen 7 as well as the usual Mario games. Allow it to make use of the Wii U's gamepad streaming to not only allow all handheld games to be played on our TVs, but also be able to stream Wii U games to this handheld. From now on, all Nintendo games should be playable and purchasable on both Wii U and this new handheld, cross-buy, playable at home on the TV via Wii U, or on-the-go via the tablet.

That's my dream <3

Also, hire a third party to handle all the other functions a tablet should be able to handle (web browser, camera, fantastic store to support third party games and non-gaming apps).

 

[Nicktals]

I'm sure there's a very good reason this won't work, but here's my pie-in-the-sky idea:

Connectable handheld. You buy a handheld, and it comes with one portable system, and a base. The base allows 4 handhelds to be 'docked', and connected to the TV. By docking additional handhelds, you increase the graphical capabilities.

Is this at all feasible? Could it be designed so that the graphics cards (or however it works for a handheld, I'm clueless!) could work in tandem when docked?

 

[Jackano]

It's interesting to have that kind of topic (as long as it don't fully derails into another specs topic).

I would like to put a doubt/fear about this:
Integrating everything under the same OS/API/SDK/whatever you call it is cool and everyone do see the benefits, but what if they screw up?

Until now Nintendo IMO isn't particularly good at designing OS and UI. Took them 2 years to bring folders on 3DS and we are still waiting for a Wii U update that will bring them with some more stability, just to give an example. One another example is that quick start menu on the gamepad that supposedly is their answer to the speed problem of the OS, which probably is a design mess because the quick menu just feel like they are skipping the main OS that is unavoidably too slow and seems impossible to correct.

On the SDK side, I want the new platform to be a little more open; Remember the weather and news channels on Wii? The icons in the dashboard were showing some live content. Just like your regular widgets on Android.
I hope, but I will not bet Nintendo will do the same. To me it's very important for developers to be able to interact with the user dashboard, to register cron jobs and background tasks.
The Wii U shows a step backward on this. Even the Animal Crossing Plazza is a standalone app IIRC.


So they better work well and fast, because one year of multiple updates after the release is out of question, especially if they want to try again to convince some 3rd party developers, and core mistake to their architecture could lead them to a decade of fails, instead of one system like the Wii U.

And seeing the Wii U ATM, I've yet to be convinced that elephants Kyoto engineers, as well as seeing the work on Miiverse web app, and the little to zero impact their few western teams have, that this could turn very well.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

It's interesting to have that kind of topic (as long as it don't fully derails into another specs topic).

I would like to put a doubt/fear about this:
Integrating everything under the same OS/API/SDK/whatever you call it is cool and everyone do see the benefits, but what if they screw up?

Until now Nintendo IMO isn't particularly good at designing OS and UI. Took them 2 years to bring folders on 3DS and we are still waiting for a Wii U update that will bring them with some more stability, just to give an example. One another example is that quick start menu on the gamepad that supposedly is their answer to the speed problem of the OS, which probably is a design mess because the quick menu just feel like they are skipping the main OS that is unavoidably too slow and seems impossible to correct.

On the SDK side, I want the new platform to be a little more open; Remember the weather and news channels on Wii? The icons in the dashboard were showing some live content. Just like your regular widgets on Android.
I hope, but I will not bet Nintendo will do the same. To me it's very important for developers to be able to interact with the user dashboard, to register cron jobs and background tasks.
The Wii U shows a step backward on this. Even the Animal Crossing Plazza is a standalone app IIRC.


So they better work well and fast, because one year of multiple updates after the release is out of question, especially if they want to try again to convince some 3rd party developers, and core mistake to their architecture could lead them to a decade of fails, instead of one system like the Wii U.

And seeing the Wii U ATM, I've yet to be convinced that elephants Kyoto engineers, as well as seeing the work on Miiverse web app, and the little to zero impact their few western teams have, that this could turn very well.

Like you, I have no faith in Nintendo creating a decent OS and UI. Iwata said a few years ago that they'll be partnering with outside companies in areas that aren't their expertise. Why didn't they do this for Wii U? Bring in some experts, please. Stop creating shit stuff. It's so frustrating.

 

[GhostTrick]

My vision:

Wii U successor:
-No gimmicks, no Gamepad, 3DS successor should be used for remote play
-Wii U pro controller is the official controller
-299 USD/EUR, all of the budget goes towards the console hardware:
-16GB GDDR5 ram, x86 architecture, AMD APU with ~4-5TFLOP
-Holiday 2017, Nintendo should be able to sell a console with these specs for 299 without being a loss leader within 3 years


Marketing is towards the hardcore gamer, advertise it for being the fastest console ever that runs all games in 1080p Ultra settings, something PS4/Bone will probably struggle to achieve with multiplats in very high/ultra settings with 2017 games. Nintendo could garner lots of core gamers if they get the best versions of multiplat games. Going back to the core and courting 3rd parties to evoke the spirit of Nintendo during the Snes days.

Be disruptive, releasing 2 years prior to PS5 if it's a 2019 launch(6 year span). Releasing so early will also mean it'll barely keep up with PS5, relatively, it's power will be like the Dreamcast vs the Gamecube/Xbox. But that should be okay for Nintendo as long as they garner momentum during those 2 years and undercut the competition heavily whilst still making a profit.

Yeah, not happening. First of all, the price point is already too low for what you're asking for.
Basically, 2 to nearly 3 times more than a PS4... for maybe the same price ? Because I doubt that in 2017, PS4 will be less than 250 dollars.
Also, your strategy would require total cooperation from 3rd parties. Some bridges are burned, and those bridges are burned forever. Some 3rd party publisher will never work again on a Nintendo platform. 2K for exemple, maybe EA. Specs is the least problem of Nintendo nowadays. And history taught us it never was the problem.
People wouldn't move from their PS4/One to play the same games, in fact, less games and leave an ecosystem for a smaller/newer/different one.

In other words, what your asking for is a 3rd same one. PS4 and Xbox One are already sharing a same market, same audience, with two different ecosystem. There's no place for a 3rd one, even more then that market is shrinking.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I wouldn't say bridges are burned for ever, this is a business and if there is an opportunity to make money, mixing personal stuff like the thing Yamauchi have done to Square is bad and I know Nintendo is well aware.
Nintendo created two platforms that wasn't that desirable as their previous by many and seeing how things are changing both in terms in hardware and software. If Nintendo wants to continue making money on both their hardware and software they need to think out if the box and observe how the market is changing, I'm completely optimistic and think that's what they're doing right now.

 

[Jackano]

Like you, I have no faith in Nintendo creating a decent OS and UI. Iwata said a few years ago that they'll be partnering with outside companies in areas that aren't their expertise. Why didn't they do this for Wii U? Bring in some experts, please. Stop creating shit stuff. It's so frustrating.

Yeah, and experts aren't all in Kyoto nor in Japan.
From what I understood in the Miiverse Iwata Asks, Hatena who made Miiverse is a Kyoto web agency and they got the contract just because Hatena's CEO was smart enough to know Iwata and it just happened like that without further research of any partner.
If that's their way to partner with "outside" companies... I rather prefere they hire true experts, possibly outside Japan. I don't know much of sony's and Cerny story but for once I'm willing to say it seems to have turned well for them.

 

[10k]

Nintendo needs to abandon backwards compatibility as a feature on their next box. They can start doing some sort of OS thing like people are proposing where future devices will be retroactively compatible, but they need to get away from the shackles of the GC era architecture the WiiU CPU is running on.

What would be pretty sweet is if they specifically had a kind of "retro box" that was specifically designed for backwards compatability, something that could run WiiU, Wii and GC hardware / software natively, while also having a central operating system for multitasking. I doubt it would be commercially viable, but damn it would be sweet.

They need the SuperNESWiiU64Cube to release.

 

[Canis lupus]

Yeah, not happening. First of all, the price point is already too low for what you're asking for.
Basically, 2 to nearly 3 times more than a PS4... for maybe the same price ? Because I doubt that in 2017, PS4 will be less than 250 dollars.
Also, your strategy would require total cooperation from 3rd parties. Some bridges are burned, and those bridges are burned forever. Some 3rd party publisher will never work again on a Nintendo platform. 2K for exemple, maybe EA. Specs is the least problem of Nintendo nowadays. And history taught us it never was the problem.
People wouldn't move from their PS4/One to play the same games, in fact, less games and leave an ecosystem for a smaller/newer/different one.

In other words, what your asking for is a 3rd same one. PS4 and Xbox One are already sharing a same market, same audience, with two different ecosystem. There's no place for a 3rd one, even more then that market is shrinking.

You shouldn't look at it at today's value, in 3 and a half years, a new console could be made with much better specs. GDDR5 memory will be dirt cheap, as will the APU. A 4TFLOP APU won't even be high end by 2017. In 3.5 years, PS4 will likely cost 199 and got a Slim revision.

Also you shouldn't assume people don't leave ecosystems, they left their Nintendos and Segas for Playstations, then with the PS3 fiasco the 360 took half of PS2's share and this gen it looks like most are returning back to Sony.

Going hardcore is the only way forward for consoles, nothing, no gimmick will reverse the trends set by mobiles, Nintendo should never attempt to bring back the non-gamers to their TV's again because they aren't coming back. Nintendo needs stability, it's better to make money by selling Gamecube-N64 levels than having to waste great deal of time and effort trying a new gimmick each gen that can either be a great hit or huge flop.

 

[Orniletter]

I see complaints about the "slow and shit" OS of the WiiU all the time and I´m wondering If my WiiU is somehow infintitely better than everyone elses.

An OS is by no means utter rubbish if takes the system like 10 seconds to load it.... or like 8 seconds to open the Internetbrowser for the first time...and near instant after that.

I mean, come on....

 

[jimi_dini]

Also you shouldn't assume people don't leave ecosystems, they left their Nintendos and Segas for Playstations, then with the PS3 fiasco the 360 took half of PS2's share and this gen it looks like most are returning back to Sony.

So Nintendo should cross their fingers and hope that Sony + Microsoft totally fuck up next generation? That's a terrible business plan.

I see complaints about the "slow and shit" OS of the WiiU all the time and I´m wondering If my WiiU is somehow infintitely better than everyone elses.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Wii U OS is pretty fine. It also looks extremely polished. PS3 Crossbar looks like utter shite compared to it (and it also feels unresponsive almost every time).

I also like that the blue light of the gamepad blinks 2 times for certain notifications just to inform you that something happened. You don't get silly "xxSuperGamerxx is now online" notifications while playing a game. Because most of the time I don't give a shit, who got online at that second. I literally just deleted someone from my friends list, because that someone logged in and off every few seconds for around 1 hour. BUT when I'm in the Wii U "pause" menu, I will get those written notifications and even an audio cue. Which again makes sense.

 

[jimi_dini]

double post sorry

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I don't think they need to abandon their backward compatibility since it tends to create a library of classic games especially that we're in the digital age, they need a virtual compatibility of the library ongoing forward. This is considered as one of the new market trends that's why the old way if redesigning the hardware and os every time is time and money consuming.

 

[Canis lupus]

So Nintendo should cross their fingers and hope that Sony + Microsoft totally fuck up next generation? That's a terrible business plan.

There's a pool of ~200M gamers, Nintendo can claim some.

 

[nephilimdj]

Make it similar to the wii, but allow the next handheld to install a channel on the console (none of this paid animal crossing glorified miiverse on wiiu)
Then u have a direct hub, which allows the handheld to connect even if they dont have the console game.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Wii U OS is pretty fine. It also looks extremely polished. PS3 Crossbar looks like utter shite compared to it (and it also feels unresponsive almost every time).

Wii U OS looks like it was designed for a phone, It really wouldn't work with the PS3, because of all the playback/networking stuff.
End up like the Vita, where you would have to hide 10 odd bubbles/squares which are not game related.

 

[Fourth Storm]

There's a pool of ~200M gamers, Nintendo can claim some.

If Iwata's January presentation is any indication, Nintendo hope to use some of the ideas from QoL in their dedicated gaming consoles in the future. They'll keep chasing the casual audience, or perhaps more aptly - the non-traditional audience. They have a better shot at enticing these consumers, in my view, than they do enticing the Xbone/PS4 users, who are already committed to those services. Mobiles are a source of heavy competition, but then again, Nintendo products compete with all forms of entertainment in the lives of consumers - everything from movies to crossword puzzles. If Nintendo can once again provide a unique living room experience that gets people to play together, they could once again find success with their home console. This is something mobile hardware is just not geared towards.

That old IBM CPU needs to go, it's inefficient and expensive. A "beefy" ARM would be perfect on both the handled and console, to keep the compatibility across both.

That old IBM CPU is hardly "inefficient." Actually, the beefier ARM CPUs become, the more efficiency is lost. A Cortex A15, for example, takes up 4x-5x the die space as a Cortex A7 yet only increases performance 2x-3x. The Cortex A57 is even larger and more power hungry than the Cortex A15. Not saying they are bad designs, but we have yet to see how an Espresso core would actually compare on the same process.

 

[blu]

I've read that for PPC64 paired singles were thrown out and replaced by AltiVec, which occupies the same opcodes, therefore mutually exclusive.

PS and AltiVec opcode spaces do overlap, but that's not an isse as either extension could be put on a toggle. AAMOF, even gekko/750CL has PS on a toggle in one of the machine control registers (i.e. HID2{PSE]) - the extension can be enabled or disabled at will.

 

[DizzyCrow]

I think most(to not say all) western third parties are a lost cause, but Nintendo can soften it with the japanese devs, they should go back to the basics, before Wii/DS all they had to differentiate themselves was game design, and they are still masters of it.

We don't know if absorbing the Wii U architecture means Wii U BC on the handheld, so I'll leave that out:
Handheld
- It should be a little above Vita on raw power, using a 720p screen(or at least 540p).
- Only one screen, there were a lot of good game implementations on DS using touch, but on 3DS it is almost irrelevant, is just wasting space, battery and adding cost(low cost but still).
- Keep the clamshell design with a wide screen on the top and with the extra space on the bottom dual sticks, NFC for Amiibo and a bigger battery OR a slide design like the PSP Go, but with a multi-touch screen so there still can be touch based games(plus shoulder buttons) and get some japanese mobile ports(games like Hitman: Sniper)
- I don't think camera and music player are really necessary these days

Console
- Be as small as possible
- An increment in specs like the GC -> Wii, or the enough to every game be native 1080p
- No Wii U BC, a Pro Controller/Wiimote combo would be enough for inputs(but with analog triggers), no other gimmicks.
- Digital only or use the same game carts as the handheld

Both
- One emulator for every platform on VC and have the entire libraries available on day 1
- Turn VC subscription based
- Beef up Miiverse
- Games pre-loading
- Cloud backups and cross-save for cross-buy games
- Deluxe Digital Promotion for life

 

[BD1]

Something I've dreamed of as well. They could still feature third parties for a fee Steam style. They could still release hardware as cheap, reliable points of entry to their portal.

Yep, small, quiet boxes in the vein of Apple TV/Fire TV/etc. Some supplemental apps included: Netflix, Hulu, etc. Ah, its fun to daydream.

I also think Nintendo should release the Poke-Phone. A smart phone for pre-teen crowd, loaded with pokemon apps and games. That one is bordering on crazy, lol.

 

[Trago]

With Iwata mentioning iOS and Android, doesn't that mean that Nintendo could handle hardware the way Apple does with their devices or Goggle with theirs?

As in, Nintendo could either make all the hardware themselves like Apple, or license the OS out to different hardware companies in the same way Google does with android.

People yelling for better specs could see a beffy NintendOS console from Samsung or something. Knowing Nintendo though, I see them handling all the hardware themselves, but I would like to see them take the Google approach. I mean it'll be a common architecture, and a lot of gamers today like great specs, so why not?

And this is not to say that they can't take the Google method and not make their own hardware. They can make their own box as sort of a baseline, all while other companies can make these powerhouse boxes to those of us who want that sort of thing for a NintendOS powered machine.

Just a thought.

 

[DizzyCrow]

Yep, small, quiet boxes in the vein of Apple TV/Fire TV/etc. Some supplemental apps included: Netflix, Hulu, etc. Ah, its fun to daydream.

I also think Nintendo should release the Poke-Phone. A smart phone for pre-teen crowd, loaded with pokemon apps and games. That one is bordering on crazy, lol.

The Wii U is already rather small, if they remove the disc drive(which is half of the weight of the entire console) and make the next upgrade like the one from GC to Wii it could be on par with the size of these boxes, with the advantage of being a core game console.

 

[Father_Brain]

I believe they could get a lot of Japanese support if they play their cards right. I also don't think Western third party content is as much of a lost cause as some of you do, but it's true that making their next console into a powerhouse wouldn't help much in regaining support.

I'm not even that optimistic about Japanese third-party support. The market will only continue to shift towards mobile, and I think retaining 3DS levels of support is going to be quite the feat.

 

[inner-G]

A Nintendo handheld with a single great, quality hi-res screen would be amazing. Oh the possibilities...

Having 2 sticks/circle pads as standard wouldn't kill anybody either.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

The commentary on releasing tons of hardware variations, specifically citing Apple and Android, is probably pretty telling of what we'll see. I'm thinking, over the course of the console, we'll see:

- First out the gate is a standard handheld. Single screen (3DS sized), standard controls with NFC, tilt and touch. micro HDMI Out and Bluetooth controller support. Output probably capped at 720p

- Later, a non-portable model. This would be the "Apple TV" of the lineup. slightly higher specs (true 1080p) but no screen or battery, likely the cheapest model. Controller is a pro controller successor with tilt, NFC and a ps4-style touchpad for touch screen games.

- Over the course of the system's life, we get more variations, especially in regards to screen sized. I could see systems with screens the size of a 3DS XL, iPad mini, and full iPad being released as hardware variants down the line.

 

[Jackano]

We don't know if absorbing the Wii U architecture means Wii U BC on the handheld, so I'll leave that out:
Handheld
1 - It should be a little above Vita on raw power, using a 720p screen(or at least 540p).
2 - Only one screen, there were a lot of good game implementations on DS using touch, but on 3DS it is almost irrelevant, is just wasting space, battery and adding cost(low cost but still).

Console
4 - No Wii U BC, a Pro Controller/Wiimote combo would be enough for inputs(but with analog triggers), no other gimmicks.
5 - Digital only or use the same game carts as the handheld

Both
6 - One emulator for every platform on VC and have the entire libraries available on day 1
7 - Deluxe Digital Promotion for life

I understand the ideas you hope/feel, so don't take this list as an attack or something, but I disagree or see things that are very Non Nintendo-like in what you wrote:

1 - Once again, people go straight to a disappointment by hoping the hand-held will be HD. I think it will be 480p, like the Wii was, like the Gamepad is. Never expect Nintendo to make a big tech jump!
2 - Why only one screen when gaming today is all about the second screen experience. The DS proved two screens gameplay is a must. Sure it feels like we didn't see much new ideas with the 3DS games, but still. Also if it "absorb Wii U architecture", how can you ditch the second screen when the Gamepad is the core feature of the Wii U?

3 - Ditched 3 after writing bc too long post!

4 - It depends on the cost of having the Wii U chip inside the next hardware, and the point of that integrated architecture in the new one... But I think they will to keep Wii U BC in their lazy way if possible.
However, no gimmick? It's Nintendo!
5 - It's a too bold move for Nintendo IMO. And the cost of very high capacity cards is still too unsure for the next generation.

6 - They have that Disney vault marketing thing going on. I hope they will be able or decide to go wilder with the VC, but for now it's a long shot.
7 - That pretty much is what Iwata is thinking about; We'll see in what form it takes shape.

 

[DizzyCrow]

I think that besides being a stopgap to the 3DS line, the New 3DS will be a test to the NintendOS thing, everything is in place: the same architecture, additional horsepower and control inputs, enhanced and exclusive games, they are probably using it to prepare thirds parties and their own studios to this kind development, find problems and difficulties and (hopefully) input from the thirds to help perfect this system.