Support NeoGAF

[ge-man]

Well, kiddies don't have HDTV's to play their GameCubes on so its not a surprise it was only 1%.

You're joking, but I wonder if the numbers are significantly different on the Xbox and PS2. I think that Deg is on the right track and that going digital was a bad idea. If 3rd parties didn't have to put their own DAC together, we would be able to go to Best Buy right now and get a component cable right of shelf and Nintendo wouldn't be changing anything on the GC.

 

[crumbs]

Another possiblility is that if the next gen Nintendo system is backwards compatible, the existing gc should still have prog scan support.

 

[jedimike]

Yeah, I caught that, I just meant that millions of GC owners have the chance to use the dv out, but the likelihood is rather slim.

Oh, OK. Yah the potential for customers to use it is still very high. If they would sell the cables in stores, I think the userbase would be >5%.

I would love to know how many high def packs MS has sold.

 

[Deg]

Another possiblility is that if the next gen Nintendo system is backwards compatible, the existing gc should still have prog scan support.

and HDMI/DVI etc. support for full digital picture hopefully!!!

 

[fausty]

That being said, development costs for adding progressive scan are nil.

Cough. Say what?

 

[aoi tsuki]

Oh, OK. Yah the potential for customers to use it is still very high. If they would sell the cables in stores, I think the userbase would be >5%.

I would love to know how many high def packs MS has sold.

The thing is, i doubt the GC would've made enough sales of the cable in-store to warrant keeping the port. As much as i love mine and progressive output, the system was seen by many as a toy, because of its lack of a DVD drive, and at times, digital audio output. As silly as it sounds, a lot of people equate high end video output with having a DVD drive, which the GC doesn't have.

i don't like the idea of cutting the port, but it seems justified to me seeing as how so few people use it. Sega did the same with each revision of the Genesis. What sucks is that it'll undoubtedly mean lesser progressive support in upcoming games. i'm sure most of our GC libraries are made of Nintendo games, and their support is good, but there'll be the occasional developer that won't opt to support it, because Nintendo isn't.

 

[MoxManiac]

Heh, I don't have a HDTV and I still bought the cables, because the GC's S-video output is shit.

 

[ge-man]

Heh, I don't have a HDTV and I still bought the cables, because the GC's S-video output is shit.

That's a huge problem as well. There's such a huge contrast between what you get with the component cables and what comes out of the analogue port that I truly feel sorry for people picking up new GC's.

aoi tsuki--That's already happening. I've noticed a lot games that have come out recently that don't have the option for no good reason. It really ticks me off because in spite of Nintendo changing the hardware, they are still very good about supporting progressive scan in their games. If they can put the option in Animal Crossing, the Zelda collector's disc, or even a complete freebie like Pacman Vs, then why can't Capcom add it to Killer 7 for example. Why didn't Ubisoft also make BG&E proscan on the GC when they bothered to add it the PS2 version.

 

[Hellraizah]

What I wonder is why exactly they have supported this digital port in the first place, as hardly anyone used it.

Now, they are being typical Nintendo, it reflects their thoughts on online gaming. If there is not enough people doing it, then it's not worth it. But this change won't really affect a lot of people, seriously. If you got an HDTV, and you're the type of people who enjoy some Nintendo games and you haven't already got a GameCube at 99$, you're a dumbass and if you buy one, you'll probably hook it up via composite anyways.

 

[Deg]

The thing is, i doubt the GC would've made enough sales of the cable in-store to warrant keeping the port. As much as i love mine and progressive output, the system was seen by many as a toy, because of its lack of a DVD drive, and at times, digital audio output. As silly as it sounds, a lot of people equate high end video output with having a DVD drive, which the GC doesn't have.

i don't like the idea of cutting the port, but it seems justified to me seeing as how so few people use it. Sega did the same with each revision of the Genesis. What sucks is that it'll undoubtedly mean lesser progressive support in upcoming games. i'm sure most of our GC libraries are made of Nintendo games, and their support is good, but there'll be the occasional developer that won't opt to support it, because Nintendo isn't.

Uh huh... nothing to do with any of that. More to do with practicality.

Let me simplify what i said earlier.

component is analogue. Analogue output is cheaper, easier and far more common. PS2 and Xbox use analogue video out and only analogue video out.

GC has a dv(digital) out. Which is much more expensive and better than just having analogue output. Hardly any tv's support it at the moment and awareness is very low.

Component leads wont work with DV out unless DAC is used. Which means component leads cost has increased.

No DV cable released. Therefore defeats points of having a DV out in the GC and more cost for Nintendo and the consumer as result of using DV out as an analogue out.

As a result Nintendo including DV output is a complete waste because it was never 'really' used. Especially as hardly any techies even use DVI/HDMI right now.

They should have just stuck to analogue in the first place. They made changes to the PAL GC as a result which supports RGB SCART in Europe. Its too early to introduce DV out on consoles yet.

Next gen you'll see ports just like the back of the GC supporting both analogue and digital outputs Hopefully things pick up by then so Digital can truly be used.

 

[dark10x]

but I wonder if the numbers are significantly different on the Xbox and PS2

I'd imagine that plenty of people are using component on XBOX simply due to the fact that 1) it's a cheap add-on that also adds optical audio ouput and 2) 98% of the games on XBOX support 480p (or above).

I wouldn't be suprised if the number of people using component on PS2 was quite a bit higher as well, as the cable itself is cheaper than the s-video.

Before I was using an HDTV, I had component cables for both XBOX and PS2...but not GC. It was simply too much of a hassle and cost more money. Now, obviously, I had no choice but to buy them later on as I wanted 480p output...but it was still a pain.

 

[Crazymoogle]

But if Nintendo makes too many cables and hardly sells any of them, then they're at a permanent loss. I suppose there's no win-win situation, but if anyone burns their money on an expensive TV, they probably are smart enough to give Nintendo a call.

Cash losses for the cables are nothing compared to overshipping even a fringe game. Nintendo probably suffered more "net losses" by shipping the e-reader.

Nintendo's comment about continued support is on the money - sure, new models don't yet support component (I mean, despite their digital out solution, Nintendo can still have the balls to release one that uses the analog out) - but by the end of the year, how many of these new GCs will be in the marketplace? 5 million? By the introduction of the next gen consoles, it's still reasonable to say most GCs support digital out.

That being said, development costs for adding progressive scan are nil.

This is in fact true. 16:9 and 480p modes are pretty trivial to add. The problem comes from supporting a decent framerate, because if the game is 20fps progressive, nobody is really going to appreciate it much.

 

[dark10x]

This is in fact true. 16:9 and 480p modes are pretty trivial to add. The problem comes from supporting a decent framerate, because if the game is 20fps progressive, nobody is really going to appreciate it much.

Well, all GC games already run with a full framebuffer, so it wouldn't really have big effect on framerate.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Well, all GC games already run with a full framebuffer, so it wouldn't really have big effect on framerate.

I don't know if I agree with that - I've seen some sub 30fps titles - but I'd like to think that some studios just can't be bothered with the extra time and equipment to test out the mode. A great way to kill even more time in testing is to have to play the game under multiple display modes.

 

[Deg]

I don't know if I agree with that - I've seen some sub 30fps titles - but I'd like to think that some studios just can't be bothered with the extra time and equipment to test out the mode. A great way to kill even more time in testing is to have to play the game under multiple display modes.

I thought 16:9 took time due to afew changes needing to be made?

 

[dark10x]

I don't know if I agree with that - I've seen some sub 30fps titles - but I'd like to think that some studios just can't be bothered with the extra time and equipment to test out the mode. A great way to kill even more time in testing is to have to play the game under multiple display modes.

If they were sub-30 fps to begin with, they'd be sub-30 fps in 480p, so it wouldn't even matter.

I mean, on PS2, you can actually achieve 480p using a hack on games that did not support it.

16:9 isn't as easy to add, though.

 

[Greekboy]

I bought my GCN at launch and purchased the component cables online from Nintendo about 2 months later. I'm shocked that only 1% of people use them. It must be higher than that IMO.

 

[Ristamar]

I'd use component cables if I had a TV with component inputs. *sigh*

This news is rather lame, but at least they're willing to get people an alternate console with the ports intact if they really want it, and there are still plenty of the 'old' consoles still on the shelves.

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

I swear the old Japanese announcement made mention of a component cable that would go in the standard AV slot... basically replacing the parts inside the GC and putting them in the cable somehow. I'm probably wrong.

In any case, this better not mean that Nintendo itself will stop making progressive scan games.

 

[ge-man]

I'd use component cables if I had a TV with component inputs. *sigh*

This news is rather lame, but at least they're willing to get people an alternate console with the ports intact if they really want it, and there are still plenty of the 'old' consoles still on the shelves.

That's something to keep in mind. There likely isn't going to be as many of these new GC's as there are of the old ones. Nintendo even mentioned how a person could check in store before purchasing.

Semjaza Azazel--They aren't going to as mentioned on the first page. It's the 3rd party developers we should be worried about. Progressive scan output is really spotty and getting to be more so IMO.