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[Yaweee]

EP1 -> EP2 15 months
HL2 -> EP1 18 months
EP2 -> EP3 24 months? ie Late 2009

Its been clear for a long time it was not coming out late 2008 or early 2009. It may well be 2010, knowing Valve, but it could still be late 2009, as we've presumed.

That about sums it up.

 

[StuBurns]

Why would they do that? CSS has an active community and it's still selling. I think it's too soon for a new CS.

As do I, I doubt we'll see if for years. It took them 10 years to do TF2, I don't think CS2 is going to be out for a long time.

 

[Zeliard]

What do you mean "they aren't worth waiting years for"? You're not going to buy them? You get to do other things during those years, it's not like to play a Valve game you have to site in a closet for two years while it's being developed.

You're taking me too literally. What I'm saying is that, IMO, the end result doesn't really match the development time. Say what you want about Episodes 1 and 2, but you can't argue that they're much more than standalone expansion packs (albeit very strong ones), and they have the development times behind them of any regular full-sized game. And all three will have ended up taking as long to make as the entirety of Half-Life 2 itself did after the first.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if it's the choice between the next 6 years after Half-Life 2 comprising of dev time for three expansions, rather than an entirely new game in Half-Life 3, that's an easy decision to make knowing what we know now (back then, I'm sure it wasn't). I don't think Valve realized beforehand just how long each episode would take or they would have probably gone into silent-mode for the next several years (except for L4D/Orange Box), and then come out and introduced Half-Life 3 to the gaming world sometime in 2010.

 

[Brobzoid]

have yet to finish HL2... so this is fine by me!

 

[permutated]

Dear Valve,

I don't mind episodic content, but don't space them so far apart that you try to make pretend that they're brand new games running on 6 year old engines.

Thanks.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Easy to say if you anit pld Episode 2.

Gives me plenty of time to beat episode 1 and 2 .

 

[Chris Remo]

You're taking me too literally. What I'm saying is that, IMO, the end result doesn't really match the development time. Say what you want about Episodes 1 and 2, but you can't argue that they're much more than standalone expansion packs (albeit very strong ones), and they have the development times behind them of any regular full-sized game. And all three will have ended up taking as long to make as the entirety of Half-Life 2 itself did after the first.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if it's the choice between the next 6 years after Half-Life 2 comprising of dev time for three expansions, rather than an entirely new game in Half-Life 3, that's an easy decision to make knowing what we know now (back then, I'm sure it wasn't). I don't think Valve realized beforehand just how long each episode would take or they would have probably gone into silent-mode for the next several years (except for L4D/Orange Box), and then come out and introduced Half-Life 3 to the gaming world sometime in 2010.

For me, Episodes One and Two have been some of the best shooter experiences of the last few years. I don't finish most full-length shooters--I didn't even finish Half-Life 2 until I came back to it a few months later, because I sort of burned out on it. I'm happy with this style of development from Valve.

 

[PowderedToast]

So by that time, I'm guessing they won't be using the current Source engine?

 

[Nafai1123]

So by that time, I'm guessing they won't be using the current Source engine?

Pretty sure they will be, probably just more advanced features added to it.

 

[Nizz]

With as much time as it's taking for Episode 3, that PS3 version better run damn smooth. Are you listening EA?

 

[permutated]

With as much time as it's taking for Episode 3, that PS3 version better run damn smooth. Are you listening EA?

Dude I doubt they are, you're talking to a wall. :lol

 

[Chris Remo]

So by that time, I'm guessing they won't be using the current Source engine?

That's accurate in that won't be the Source engine as it "currently" is--Source has changed and grown a great deal since it was deployed with Half-Life 2. It's considerably more versatile and featured at this point, and I expect that will continue to be the case.

 

[User2k]

 

[Nizz]

Dude I doubt they are, you're talking to a wall. :lol

Hey, I'm trying! :lol

 

[Bill Squabber]

It could have been done by now.

Is that some type of sick joke.

Spoiler

But seriously?

 

[freethought]

Will it still be on Source?

Before I go on I must confess I've only played bits of Ep.1 and haven't touched Ep.2 (Quick aside; I could pick up OB for my PS3, the framerate wouldn't bother someone who played half of HL2 at sub20fps and loved it. But trying Ep.1 on 360 convinced me I could never play the series with a pad). I have to admit though, I think I would have preferred them to just make a full blown HL3 on a brand new engine for release in 2010.

I'll freely admit my opinion is uninformed without having played the 'Episodes' (at this rate the new SW trilogy actually does seem more timely) and hopefully I'll remedy the situation by the end of the year.

 

[MWS Natural]

With as much time as it's taking for Episode 3, that PS3 version better run damn smooth. Are you listening EA?

If your so worried you have more than enough time to buy a PC or 360...

 

[Scott32020]

Kinda long, but it will be worth the wait hopefully.

Spoiler

CS2 - 2013?
TF3 - 2016?

 

[tedtropy]

So should we consider episodic gaming a failure at this point, or should we just be grateful that we're not having to wait as long as it'd take Valve to make a full-length game?

Whatever, more Gordon Freeman is more Gordon Freeman and I want the game to have the acceptable level of polish.

 

[Buckethead]

I demand a HL-3. If there's not one available by Nov 2010, I will wreck Valve's shit.

 

[guise]

Cant say im surprised. Valve can take however long they want IMO, they've not disappointed thus far

 

[Classic_Gs]

Valve really needs to learn from Ted Price and company.

 

[Rorschach]

Kinda long, but it will be worth the wait hopefully.

Spoiler

CS2 - 2013?
TF3 - 2016?

Apparently you don't remember how long it took for TF2. TF3 will be out in 2058.

 

[Slavik81]

Episodic gaming was an experiment by Valve. Pretty obvious they've found it wont work if you want to keep your fanbase happy with quality content, as opposed to frequent, less quality content.

It started off as an experiment, but they did exactly the same thing with Half-Life 1. Over about the course of ~3 years, they released a bunch of expansion packs for the game.

The only real difference between the Episodes and the Expansion packs is that these were done in-house and are a cannon continuation of the story.

 

[Big-E]

This is absurd. Epsiode 1 and 2 were short experiences. Unless Episode 3 is double the length of 2 then this wait is retarded.

 

[Sciz]

So should we consider episodic gaming a failure at this point, or should we just be grateful that we're not having to wait as long as it'd take Valve to make a full-length game?

Episodic gaming as a concept is fine, it's just that Valve's development philosophy runs completely contrary to the requirements for being considered episodic.

 

[guise]

Jesus christ, when will people learn, quality > quantity.

This is Valve, the game will be polished to oblivion, and no doubt introduce new tech in source like they have always done with new eps.

Its not as if there is nothing else to play in the meanwhile

 

[permutated]

Jesus christ, when will people learn, quality > quantity.

This is Valve, the game will be polished to oblivion...

Episode 2 and Team Fortress 2 were trash, there I said it. I'm fucking tired of people pretending like VALVE can do no wrong.

Yes, HL1 and HL2 were great, so were episode 1 and portal, but it's not as if they've never put out a bad game. TF2 was absolutely no fun, and completely unbalanced, and the more open world type structure of Ep 2 ripped any remaining fun out of Half Life 2.

I stopped playing EP2 right after the

Spoiler

lumber mill scene where you deal with the swarm of hunters and striders,

so I guess I missed the epilogue. Big fucking deal.

 

[maniac-kun]

the industry realy needs to improve tools so that the artists can get there work done much quicker! lately its getting more and more of an issue see how long blizzard is working on sc2 or square struggling with ffxiii. maybe some randomisation of details for shooters would speed some smaller things up. a larger team is allways a risk because it will become more ineffective. so a way for many people working on the same piece at the same time would be a good thing. id is doing this with the id tech 5 engine and maybe thats a direction the industry should give more attention.
and iam realy looking forward to ep 3 and i hope they pull a orangebox 2 kinda thing! pretty shure left 4 dead is one canidate for the box

 

[Death_Born]

Episodic gaming is the WORST IDEA EVER. I'd rather wait for a full game, then be left at a cliffhanger for years. The episodes also differed in quality, I'd rather have a Half Life 3 than 3 episodes spaced over twice the time.

I stopped playing EP2 right after the

Spoiler

lumber mill scene where you deal with the swarm of hunters and striders,

so I guess I missed the epilogue. Big fucking deal.

So basically you missed the game's big twist. Good job.

TF2 was absolutely no fun, and completely unbalanced

*adds to "has no taste in games" list

 

[Chris Remo]

Episode 2 and Team Fortress 2 were trash, there I said it. I'm fucking tired of people pretending like VALVE can do no wrong.

Yes, HL1 and HL2 were great, so were episode 1 and portal, but it's not as if they've never put out a bad game. TF2 was absolutely no fun, and completely unbalanced, and the more open world type structure of Ep 2 ripped any remaining fun out of Half Life 2.

I stopped playing EP2 right after the

Spoiler

lumber mill scene where you deal with the swarm of hunters and striders,

so I guess I missed the epilogue. Big fucking deal.

You think that people who like Episode Two and TF2 are "pretending" to like them?

 

[permutated]

You think that people who like Episode Two and TF2 are "pretending" to like them?

No, I'm saying that in my opinion they were no fun at all.

So basically you missed the game's big twist. Good job.

Well I plan on finishing it eventually.

*adds to "has no taste in games" list

It's an opinion, deal with it.

 

[Majmun]

HL2, Episode 1 and Episode 2 were worth the wait. Such awesome games.

I bet Episode 3 will be just as awesome. Going by the trend, It'll be better than Episode 2.

 

[maniac-kun]

No, I'm saying that in my opinion they were no fun at all.



Well I plan on finishing it eventually.

maybe for you but for me both where a lot of fun and tf2 is my favorit online shooter ever! i played tf back in quake 1 and quake 3 and tf classic so i know it for some time and tf2 is the best version!

HL2, Episode 1 and Episode 2 were worth the wait. Such awesome games.

I bet Episode 3 will be just as awesome. Going by the trend, It'll be better than Episode 3.

for me episode 1 was a little to short but great

 

[Thermite]

Can't say I'm necessarily surprised, but damn did I hope we'd have it in our hands by the end of next year...

 

[davepoobond]

they're gonna delay it another year and then be like "okay this is actually Half Life 3, and its SO BIG we're splitting it into 3 episodes"

 

[Timber]

the more open world type structure of Ep 2

the whatnow? episode 2 is just as linear as its predecessors. the only time the game even comes close to being 'open world' is during the mill scene you mentioned, which is like 20 mins out of a 6 hour game.

 

[wenis]

some of you are actually suprised?

they must be new to gaming...

 

[Death_Born]

The problem is that they are putting aside Episode 3 to work on Left 4 Dead and possibly Half Life 3. This is not how it should work, Valve should be devoting their full effort and then moving on to another game. Multitasking just draws out the process.

 

[Zeliard]

the whatnow? episode 2 is just as linear as its predecessors. the only time the game even comes close to being 'open world' is during the mill scene you mentioned, which is like 20 mins out of a 6 hour game.

And it's full of awesome. If they have more wide-open set pieces like that in Episode 3, it would be quite a change from vanilla HL2, and a welcome one.

 

[Majmun]

I don't think Valve is working on HL3 before Ep3 is finished.

Spoiler

Are they?

 

[TheHeretic]

They should have just started on HL3. Valve is painfully slow, and this episodic content highlights that even more.

 

[permutated]

So do we think this same fate will happen to Starcraft 2 or will Blizzard be more on top of releasing the episodes in a timely manner?

 

[Chris Remo]

So do we think this same fate will happen to Starcraft 2 or will Blizzard be more on top of releasing the episodes in a timely manner?

For what it's worth, Blizzard's stuff by its very nature shouldn't take as long. They're already going to have all the artwork and animations for all three races done by the first release, since multiplayer will be complete (minus whatever additional units are added for the second and third, but that's going to be a lot less work that the initial batch). And even if the campaign is ambitious by RTS standards, it's still mainly just going to be map editing and probably fairly light scripting going on--they use the same editor they will release to the public.

With Valve on the other hand, their product being an FPS, even though some assets are reused, there's a huge amount of unique environmental content that has to be created for each episode--and even the little bits of concept art we've seen reinforce that. There's also a lot more testing and so on required in a full-scale real-time 3D game than in a game with essentially 2D gameplay. That's not even to factor in the ludicrous amount of actual gameplay-based focus testing Valve does every step of the way; I suspect Valve puts more user tested hours per gameplay hours into their games than nearly anyone else in the industry.

Of course Blizzard has their cutscenes and cinematics, but they have separate teams doing that, and Valve has their own in-game cinematics.

 

[GeneralIroh]

If the wait is this long, I expect huge improvements in graphics, physics and AI. I hope it wont be just another episodic game.

 

[permutated]

For what it's worth, Blizzard's stuff by its very nature shouldn't take as long. They're already going to have all the artwork and animations for all three races done by the first release, since multiplayer will be complete (minus whatever additional units are added for the second and third, but that's going to be a lot less work that the initial batch). And even if the campaign is ambitious by RTS standards, it's still mainly just going to be map editing and probably fairly light scripting going on--they use the same editor they will release to the public.

With Valve on the other hand, their product being an FPS, even though some assets are reused, there's a huge amount of unique environmental content that has to be created for each episode--and even the little bits of concept art we've seen reinforce that. There's also a lot more testing and so on required in a full-scale real-time 3D game than in a game with essentially 2D gameplay. That's not even to factor in the ludicrous amount of actual gameplay-based focus testing Valve does every step of the way; I suspect Valve puts more user tested hours per gameplay hours into their games than nearly anyone else in the industry.

Of course Blizzard has their cutscenes and cinematics, but they have separate teams doing that, and Valve has their own in-game cinematics.

Good points all around.

Cheers.

 

[faceless007]

And all three will have ended up taking as long to make as the entirety of Half-Life 2 itself did after the first.

Umm, that was the point from the very beginning. HL2 took six years, and rather than spend another six years making HL3 without any output, they wanted to split it up. If it's not "worth the wait" in your opinion, fine, but don't act like Valve ever said all the episodes in total would be anything less than a full-fledged game.

Also, I said this in the other thread, but they had Ep 1 and Ep 2 teams working in parallel, which is why the Ep 1>Ep 2 wait was comparatively short. Unless they also had an Ep 3 team secretly working for a while, they've only been working on it for a year. Hence the longer wait.

 

[Darkpen]

auuuuuuuugh....

I just got OB a few months ago, and I loved every bit of it

Dammit, I want Ep 3 :lol

 

[sky]

Meh, it's not like I'm going anywhere.

 

[InterMoniker]

Hopefully this gives Valve enough time to develop a ps3 version internally rather than have EA port again.

Imagine Episode 3 releasing on PSN that would be great and Left for dead or what ever else they want to put on PSN.

Valve really need to support the ps3 to the fullest like Epic did with UT3 that would be wonderful. Valve games on ps3 with keyboard/mouse and mods? Yes please.