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[Latvian Hitman]

Do those that hate Halo 4 really think the creative heads of 343 were sitting around a table actively contriving ways to give the finger to old fans?

I don't think that was their aim at all, but they still managed to make some pretty questionable design choices. They "fixed" a lot of things that weren't broken, shipped a game with notable features missing that have been present in previous games in the series, and crammed things into the game that the community wasn't asking for.

The result is what it is. A modest at best and continually declining online population, and vitriol and bile being spewed every direction on forums like this one.

 

[CountAntonius]

It seems so strange that 343/MS would lock one of the most vibrant communities out of their game. MLG has been a huge part of Halo for 10 years and 343/MS leaves them out in the cold. It cannot be any more apparent that the community is no longer an integral part of the franchise. If nothing else this is just blatant disregard for some of Halo's biggest fans.

Then again, with all of the design changes that have been made with Reach and Halo 4, I'm not sure Halo belongs in MLG anymore.

Yeah and I doubt MLG even cares at this point with how successful Starcraft and LoL have been for them. The only people who are suffering are those long time competitive Halo faithful. Poor guys.

 

[rar]

The only people who are suffering are those long time competitive Halo faithful. Poor guys.

it's not all bad, maybe they can move on and try a real competitive shooter now

 

[Reagan's BR]

it's not all bad, maybe they can move on and try a real competitive shooter now

Halo 1-3 were really competitive.

Yeah and I doubt MLG even cares at this point with how successful Starcraft and LoL have been for them. The only people who are suffering are those long time competitive Halo faithful. Poor guys.

It really is. So many of those guys have poured innumerable hours into the game.


For anyone who has not been keeping up. MS signed a deal with Virgin Mobile to host an online contest with the grand prize being a truck. The deal locks Halo out of being on the MLG circuit.

 

[Fullfrontalgamer]

I don't really understand why MLG let Halo 4 go. It's easily the best multi player shooter I played all year.

 

[rar]

Halo 1-3 were really competitive.

when compared to pc shooters, no, they weren't

 

[CountAntonius]

Halo 1-3 were really competitive.


It really is. So many of those guys have poured innumerable hours into the game.


For anyone who has not been keeping up. MS signed a deal with Virgin Mobile to host an online contest with the grand prize being a truck. The deal locks Halo out of being on the MLG circuit.

Wow that is pathetic. Shitting on an entire community for some crap commercial promo?

when compared to pc shooters, no, they weren't

What does this even matter when console fps is a giant market to tap into? Halo gave birth to MLG.

 

[Fezzan]

I don't really understand why MLG let Halo 4 go. It's easily the best multi player shooter I played all year.

MS wouldn't let them.

 

[Apath]

You are a troll.

11 posts in one thread saying the same thing. Bravo.

Wow.

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

Consoles and console shooters are no longer the focus of MLG so this isn't surprising.

 

[volturnus]

Halo 1-3 were really competitive.


It really is. So many of those guys have poured innumerable hours into the game.


For anyone who has not been keeping up. MS signed a deal with Virgin Mobile to host an online contest with the grand prize being a truck. The deal locks Halo out of being on the MLG circuit.

I thought that being only one truck was bad enough. Still, I doubt Halo 4 would've been picked, unless MLG made its own "Slayer Pro" mode.

 

[Fezzan]

Consoles and console shooters are no longer the focus of MLG so this isn't surprising.

COD isn't a console shooter?
And this has nothing to do with that.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I don't really understand why MLG let Halo 4 go. It's easily the best multi player shooter I played all year.

What a lot of people dont get in here is that the times are changing. Ive noticed with almost every single one of my friends that most FPS's in which you have to work for every kill are games they are no longer into for the long haul. As soon as it takes a full clip and a grenade or melee, they don't like the game.

But put them in COD where half the time people go down real easy and you get AI help with kill streaks on top of that, and they play that game all the time.

They'll never admit it, but COD is easier to be good at and that's one of the main reasons its so popular now. Halo by default will always take more work to get kills at and those types of games (like Gears as well) arent what the mass market gamers play anymore. They want a game that makes them look like theyre good and COD does that the best.

 

[Reagan's BR]

when compared to pc shooters, no, they weren't

Its not the same game as quake or unreal but I believe it is just as competitive.

Wow that is pathetic. Shitting on an entire community for some crap commercial promo?

Pretty much. Then again, we are not guaranteed that MLG would have kept Halo anyways. Most MLG players dislike the deviation from the classic Halo formula. Plus, COD introduced a spectator mode, ranking system, and league play with BLOPS 2. Halo has removed ranking and replaced set weapon spawns on the map with random spawns.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

I remember the old days when MLG was just Smash and Halo :/

MLG has changed, man. Its crazy to think the two franchises that built that company are no longer a part of it.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Its not the same game as quake or unreal but I believe it is just as competitive.

Don't be silly.

 

[Fezzan]

Don't be silly.

He's not, you are though.

 

[rar]

Its not the same game as quake or unreal but I believe it is just as competitive.

and that's where i would disagree. it's nowhere near as competitive. i have played both quake and halo at a relatively high level. it takes way longer to get decent at a game like quake. there's more stuff to learn, more factors to be aware of, and the speed of the game compared to halo means you have way less time to think and react. it's a different animal completely

 

[Silly.Mikey]

and that's where i would disagree. it's nowhere near as competitive. i have played both quake and halo at a relatively high level. it takes way longer to get decent at a game like quake. there's more stuff to learn, more factors to be aware of, and the speed of the game compared to halo means you have way less time to think and react. it's a different animal completely

Thats like comparing basketball to hockey and saying hockey is more competitive because its faster.

 

[Opiate]

But they both already have

they already have.

I think people are looking for tangible signs of this. You are of course welcome to your opinion (I don't like either franchise and really never have), but Mario and Zelda still sell as well as ever, and recent iterations have continued to win GotY awards. There isn't really any objective evidence to suggest that Mario or Zelda are flagging or have reduced sales or critical potential.

With that said, calling this some serious blow to Halo seems extremely premature to me. Mario has weathered storms before too; the only way to know if the Halo brand has sustained real, long term damage is to wait, oh, 5 years. At that point we can look back and say, "Huh, yeah, there'a trend of Halo games selling less now and/or the game has fallen out of the competitive scene" or "Yeah, Halo 4 was just a blip on the radar and in the grand scheme of things still did pretty darn well."

 

[gollumsluvslave]

One thing I'm glad about with every successive Halo 4 thread is that (with the sole exception of UT99) I've never really been into multiplayer, so Halo 4 is the best Halo since CE IMO, purely looking at campaign, and most of the bitchin is targetted at multiplayer.

Multiplayer seems ok, but I never sink enough time into it to worry overmuch

 

[Coolwhip]

Is MLG making money yet? When I followed SC2 MLG was losing loads of money.

 

[Ghazi]

Still, I doubt Halo 4 would've been picked, unless MLG made its own "Slayer Pro" mode.

They had their own version of Slayer Pro, which actually looked really good and was based around the previous Halo's (static weapon spawns, no spawn AA's and the only way you could get them was through Ordinance which only offered you Hardlight Shield, Thruster Pack, and something else I can't remember) spawn BR's, DMR was a map pick up, BoltShot was only a map pick-up. Combine that with with the really good forge maps they had (MLG Simplex, Relay, Haven)

I can't believe it didn't make it into the Curcuit.

 

[Reagan's BR]

and that's where i would disagree. it's nowhere near as competitive. i have played both quake and halo at a relatively high level. it takes way longer to get decent at a game like quake. there's more stuff to learn, more factors to be aware of, and the speed of the game compared to halo means you have way less time to think and react. it's a different animal completely

Don't be silly.

Both Halo and Quake can be really competitive at a high level. But like you said, two different animals, neither of which I believe to better or worse than the other. Its like comparing different fighting games. Smash Bros Meele was super competitive and so is street fighter just in very,very different ways.

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

COD isn't a console shooter?
And this has nothing to do with that.

Call of Duty is a console shooter. A platform-genre combination that stopped being the main stage event and is now confined to an ever shrinking space at the event ever since StarCraft II and League of Legends were added to the circuits. So they are no longer the main focus.

 

[Opiate]

Both Halo and Quake can be really competitive at a high level. But like you said, two different animals, neither of which I believe to better or worse than the other. Its like comparing different fighting games. Smash Bros Meele was super competitive and so is street fighter just in very,very different ways.

Complementing your position, I have not played enough Halo to say anything with certainty, but I would say this: simpler mechanics does not necessarily imply lower skill thresholds.

Go is a game with literally one game mechanic, and yet it's so complicated that people spend their entire lives trying to master it. The number of possible Go moves on a standard 19x19 board is 2.08168199382×10^170; for comparison, the estimated number of atoms in the observable universe is 10^80.

Simpler mechanics do not require a low skill ceiling. Therefore, arguing that because t Unreal Tournament is more mechanically demanding (which it is) that it therefore has a higher skill ceiling isn't valid. I'd have to play more of Halo to really know.

 

[OG Kush]

I remember the days of CounterStrike 1.3, 1.5 and 1.6 being super popular with the esports community. CPL, ESWC and WCG were all huge competitions. NiP vs X3, SK vs 3D. Europe against America etc.

There was this site called gotfrag who was incredibly popular back then.

True this. There's this great book about the Counter-Strike esports community called Gameboys:

The author follows Team 3D and its really fascinating.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Complementing your position, I have not played enough Halo to say anything with certainty, but I would say this: simpler mechanics does not necessarily imply lower skill thresholds.

Go is a game with literally one game mechanic, and yet it's so complicated that people spend their entire lives trying to master it. The number of possible Go moves on a standard 19x19 board is 2.08168199382×10^170; for comparison, the estimated number of atoms in the observable universe is 10^80.

Simpler mechanics do not require a low skill ceiling. Therefore, arguing that because t Unreal Tournament is more mechanically demanding (which it is) that it therefore has a higher skill ceiling isn't valid. I'd have to play more of Halo to really know.

I'll ask around HaloGAF to see if someone can post a really good MLG match video in here. I've only watched it casually. Also, aren't most Unreal and Quake tournaments FFA?

 

[CyReN]

Here's something about dumbing Halo down if that's what you are looking for - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4K1gR0q6I

 

[rar]

Thats like comparing basketball to hockey and saying hockey is more competitive because its faster.

a game being "competitive" to me means that:

the game is fun to watch and play competitively
it's difficult and takes effort to improve at the game
the game is fair and balanced

to me quake is much closer to satisfying these requirements than halo is

Both Halo and Quake can be really competitive at a high level. But like you said, two different animals, neither of which I believe to better or worse than the other. Its like comparing different fighting games. Smash Bros Meele was super competitive and so is street fighter just in very,very different ways.

i would agree with you, but i think halo and quake are a lot closer in terms of gameplay than smash bros and street fighter are. for me halo doesn't do enough to differentiate itself from quake in any way that makes it worth playing or watching over quake. the aspects that it shares with quake are watered down, and it really doesn't add a whole lot else that's interesting or unique

before when i only had a console and played halo i used to think the same thing as you. when i switched to pc i changed my mind. if you haven't tried playing quake i think you should try it, it's fun and rewarding

 

[Mileena]

Good on them for going with the better game, no need to force a shitty game in the circuit. On a side note, are they still doing Tekken Tag 2 in 2013?

 

[rar]

I'll ask around HaloGAF to see if someone can post a really good MLG match video in here. I've only watched it casually. Also, aren't most Unreal and Quake tournaments FFA?

there's no ffa in quake tournaments. it's duel, ctf, or team deathmatch. i don't know about ut since i never played it much

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I don't even mind the getting beat by Minecraft and soccer part.

The bigger concern is the rate at which H4 is hemorrhaging players. The peak population is less than 1/4 what it was at launch just two months ago, and it's steadily declining.

All they have to do is continually support the game and listen to the feedback. Just cause its not first doesn't mean no one is playing it. I play BF3 on console all the time now and i easily find good matches and that game is in 10th spot. But they do support the game continuously and for a while now.

But its kinda bothering me that something like file share would take this long to fix. If thats taking that long, (and that was supposed to be in when the game launched) i cant imagine getting any new features any time soon. Thats what i think is discouraging people.

 

[legacyzero]

Great news. For too long MLG have held back the evolution of Halo.

Halo 4 is the most enjoyable MP for me since Halo CE outside some technical issues.

This.

And maybe it'll help to rid the game of all the MLG wannabes who think they're pro.

Wait, what am I even talking about?

 

[Seance]

huh halo 4 is pure trash.

.

 

[Reagan's BR]

there's no ffa in quake tournaments. it's duel, ctf, or team deathmatch. i don't know about ut since i never played it much

Ok, its been a while since I've played quake haha.

 

[twofold]

Ok, its been a while since I've played quake haha.

Casual quake is FFA. Competitive Quake isn't.

Quake is pretty close to dead as a competitive game, though. Viewer figures are low and I doubt there'll be many tournaments in 2013.

I don't see CS:GO sticking around for too long, either. Viewer figures are disappointing for that game, too.

FPS e-sports, unfortunately, seem to be on the way out for the time being.

 

[Sec0nd]

I will always cherish the great and awesome Halo 2 and Halo 3 times. Fucking loved to watch and play MLG. Best MP I have and probably will play.

 

[Demon Ice]

Not surprising. MP balance is horrendous. Series peaked with Halo 3 for me.

 

[op_ivy]

time for another opportunity to bash halo more. yay.

 

[dimb]

I am kind of curious what the Halo 4 competitive scene is like. The stream numbers on Twitch for the game are shockingly low, and it's coming in underneath stuff like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door and Persona 4 Arena.

 

[legacyzero]

huh halo 4 is pure trash.

Certainly better than Reach IMO.

time for another opportunity to bash halo more. yay.

Dont really think it's Halo's fault IMO. Just the dude-bro COD running it's course. I assume this is because of COD anyway.

 

[Mileena]

I don't see CS:GO sticking around for too long, either. Viewer figures are disappointing for that game, too.

FPS e-sports, unfortunately, seem to be on the way out for the time being.

That's because there's almost no good competitive shooters coming out anymore. Looking at this gen, what good competitive shooters have we gotten?

CoD4 pro mod on PC was pretty good
Natural Selection 2 is decent

and now I'm drawing blanks!

 

[IHaveIce]

Damn does anybody remember the FFA game where Kampy and Str8 Sick both are in first place? in a damn FFA ?

That was just awesome and intense

 

[Jack Scofield]

True this. There's this great book about the Counter-Strike esports community called Gameboys:

The author follows Team 3D and its really fascinating.

This book is fantastic. I'm reading it right now and couldn't recommend it enough, even of you're not into the whole competitive scene (I'm not).

 

[mhi]

Surprised this didn't happen sooner. Starting with Halo 3, the game designers knowingly made decisions in order to narrow the skill gap and expand the sandbox; which makes sense if you want your game to be accessible to a wider audience.

Halo 4 continues this trend

 

[twofold]

That's because there's almost no good competitive shooters coming out anymore. Looking at this gen, what good competitive shooters have we gotten?

CoD4 pro mod on PC was pretty good
Natural Selection 2 is decent

and now I'm drawing blanks!

I think CS:GO is pretty damn good, personally. I've put in a solid 150 hours or so and I've watched tons of pro games/tournaments. I've been having a blast with it.

I wasn't impressed with NS2 at all. I put in hundreds of hours in the original but could barely manage 5 before I was bored with the sequel. The lack of first person mode makes watching games tedious, too.

And then there's Shootmania. Eurgh.

But yeah, FPS games are definitely easier today than they were in the past. One of the reasons why CS:GO feels so refreshing to me because it actually requires skill.

It's a massive shame since I think a skill based multiplayer fps would work really well with a SC2-esque ladder system in place.

 

[RooMHM]

FPS progaming, on consoles?
Guess I'll never understand that.

 

[erpg]

So what's the news on Virgin Gaming? Has that venture offset the blow to the competitive Halo community?

Does Virgin even do live stream tournaments? They seem pretty new and insignificant. Other than the truck joke, I haven't heard anything about it.

 

[rar]

That's because there's almost no good competitive shooters coming out anymore. Looking at this gen, what good competitive shooters have we gotten?

CoD4 pro mod on PC was pretty good
Natural Selection 2 is decent

and now I'm drawing blanks!

6v6 team fortress 2 is decent, it's a pretty small scene though, and valve doesn't care

shootmania is pretty boring but nadeo is pouring money into it