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[Tobimacoss]

Simple: you attach the 5090 externally with USB4! Oops, now its performing like a 5070Ti...

Thunderbolt 5. USB4 is just the port, spec has to be Thunderbolt 5. Xbox Ally X already allows eGPUs via Thunderbolt 4, so I expect all Xbox PCs to have eGPU support, the Consoles likely won't have it.

 

[Shogmaster]

Thunderbolt 5. USB4 is just the port, spec has to be Thunderbolt 5. Xbox Ally X already allows eGPUs via Thunderbolt 4, so I expect all Xbox PCs to have eGPU support, the Consoles likely won't have it.

Hate to tell ya, TB5/USB4v2 still come way short of Oculink, which is itself is only PCIe 4.0 x4.

Go find some comparos between USB4, TB5, and Oculink as eGPU connectors. Lots of vids on YouTube.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Hate to tell ya, TB5/USB4v2 still come way short of Oculink, which is itself is only PCIe 4.0 x4.

Go find some comparos between USB4, TB5, and Oculink as eGPU connectors. Lots of vids on YouTube.

I know, but still good to have that option for future cards and upgrades. What was Nvidia using when they combined two RTX 5090s for DLSS5?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I haven't kept up with this thread and documentation for the next Xbox and how they are doing their BC, but I am going to be a person to wait and see because Sony did the exact same thing and built in their BC for PS4 into the hardware for PS5 and not any of their previous systems. I am just thinking that if Microsoft is doing the same then they are building their Series X BC in the hardware for Project Helix which may would still not have all BC from their previous systems before Series X/S

All games run natively on series x/s. The backwards compatible ones have been recompiled for series consoles. This new console will play anything that plays on series consoles.

 

[Shogmaster]

I know, but still good to have that option for future cards and upgrades. What was Nvidia using when they combined two RTX 5090s for DLSS5?

Prolly PCIe 4.0 x4 slot on the mobo. Passing off final rendered frames + motion vectors could be done in USB 3.2 speeds tbh.

 

[Bojji]

Demon's Souls was not ported. Horizon games (and likely the God of War games as those are PS4 games) don't use Kraken I/O complex. And all the Insomniac games need powerful CPUs to decompress data on the fly. Even then the loading is dynamic and assets are not fully loaded like on PS5, and the time to fully load them depends of the power of the CPU. You need a few more seconds up to like 10 seconds or so on Steam Deck. NXgamer showed this once. whereas on PS5 everything is loaded in less than 2 seconds.

Why are you compring low end mobile chip to PS5?

Loading in vast majority of PS5 games is CPU limited, you can blame devs (obviously) but Cerny vision really didn't materialize this gen.

 

[Ashamam]

Cerny vision really didn't materialize this gen.

It's the secret sauce dilemma, if you build it, will they use it? The answer is apparently "no" if it requires supporting parallel development paths. This is why Cerny is now emphasizing that hardware techniques for the PS6 should, generally speaking, be available everywhere. (on AMD forward facing arch that is)

 

[Bojji]

It's the secret sauce dilemma, if you build it, will they use it? The answer is apparently "no" if it requires supporting parallel development paths. This is why Cerny is now emphasizing that hardware techniques for the PS6 should, generally speaking, be available everywhere.

And SSDs will also be much more common, including whole I/O decompression hardware.

Last gen they had PS4/X1 and PC not supporting it. Now they will develop for PS5, Series, PS6, Helix and PC - so only one platform won't have it.

PC users will still able to brute force it or direct storage will (finally?) save the day. I think this was a big missed opportunity, this decompression tech could have be added to GPU/CPUs long time ago and standardized by now.

I think devs will just leave "NVME drive required" in system requirements and call it a day.

 

[Radical_3d]

Devs don't build for Helix Flagship only. They would be building for every gaming capable windows device, with ability to do Cloud Gaming on every iOS and Android device.

It's a Console. It will be closed system.

 

[Hector Hall]

so like the Series X and PS5? this isn't new...
there's no secret sauce when every API is based around the Direct X feature set, because the GPUs are literally designed around Direct X and then put into a console, and all you essentially get inside a console is a PC part that has been stripped down somewhat



people forgot it because it was insane overkill and barely accomplished anything that the comparatively slow SSD inside the Series X, with no secret sauce couldn't do as well, with only slight differences.

if your storage solution is 50% faster, but the time frame you're talking about is 2 seconds... then... like... wow, now it will take 3 seconds to load instead! the horror!
and in games "designed around it" you get a 2 frame stutter by running them on an ordinary SSD! SCANDALOUS!

What are you talking about? PS5 API doesn't use DirectX at all.

PS5 is custom even in how it's uses the power charge. Coprocessors for the I/O system, Tempest processor for sound, Kraken processor for decompression of data, a propietary 7 layer of priority route of accessing the SSD when the usual in 2020 was straight loading data, UHD disc drive absent in PCs, custom arrangements to silicon the usual way as redundant cores, cache memory etc. It has its own API too, and it's own OS based on FreeBSD. Hardly a stock Windows PC.

 

[MayauMiao]

What are you talking about? PS5 API doesn't use DirectX at all.

PS5 is custom even in how it's uses the power charge. Coprocessors for the I/O system, Tempest processor for sound, Kraken processor for decompression of data, a propietary 7 layer of priority route of accessing the SSD when the usual in 2020 was straight loading data, UHD disc drive absent in PCs, custom arrangements to silicon the usual way as redundant cores, cache memory etc. It has its own API too, and it's own OS based on FreeBSD. Hardly a stock Windows PC.

All that different use of tech means nothing when the end product looks and plays exactly the same.

 

[kevboard]

What are you talking about? PS5 API doesn't use DirectX at all.

BASED on Direct X. DX12 is the standard that everyone is basing their hardware around. this means Sony's API is by necessity based on those capabilities.
PSSL for example is almost fully compatible with DX12's shader language, it's just slightly expanded to add a few specific features, mainly for ease of use.
so their own shader language is just DX12's with some minor addions... and of course it is, why wouldn't it be? makes everything easier for the devs, and their hardware is already designed around it for the most part.

PS5 is custom even in how it's uses the power charge. Coprocessors for the I/O system, Tempest processor for sound, Kraken processor for decompression of data, a propietary 7 layer of priority route of accessing the SSD when the usual in 2020 was straight loading data, UHD disc drive absent in PCs, custom arrangements to silicon the usual way as redundant cores, cache memory etc. It has its own API too, and it's own OS based on FreeBSD. Hardly a stock Windows PC.

and all of that is basically done to either overcome shortcomings of the CPU, or done without showing any real benefits.

the SSD is overkill and never gets fully used anyway, which is why you can just plonk in a super slow m.2 SSD and still see no real difference in performance compared to the internal one.

the tempest engine is just there to take stress off of the CPU. same with the decompression.


yeah, all of this is customisation, but it's either something that will essentially be no longer relevant next gen due to hardware in general improving, making them superfluous.
or it's something that never gets used properly anyway like the SSD nonsense.

that's my point. you the user doesn't actually really notice any of that, even if you compare it to other systems. so in essence, it was already kinda obsolete this gen, and now imagine an APU multiple times more powerful... do you think that APU needs a separate sound chip still? or special decompression hardware?
do you need some SSD shenanigans that can flush and then fill your memory in 1 second?

no... you won't need it. even this gen it amounted to almost nothing.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

ps5 and ps4 had a number of tweaks (cache, decompression, etc) but ps5's secret sauce was essentially an SSD (lol) and the ps4's was... well nothing.

BORING

consoles are now basically the same APU from one company with a different chassis/box
the same budget cheeseburger with a different wrapper