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[Embearded]

isn't that all consoles the last 2 gens?

No, even though this idea has started being thrown around since Helix rumors started.

There is a presentation from the people who first hacked PS4 around 10 years ago. The guy starts with this assumption, that PS4 is just a PC with a closed firmware. He then continues with what a PC is from a technical point of view and explains what they had to do to hack the PS4 and run Linux on it as it's not a PC.
They even have a slide that says that with big letters.

If I can find the video later I will post it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So reference model for 3rd party manufacturers to follow huh?

There will be the first party device that Xbox calls a console only because it will have BC for your Xbox library baked in then the same chip used in the "Xbox PC" that does not have BC from places like Asus

Total side note it would not shock me at this point that the first party device could be more expensive than some of the 3rd party Xbox PCs.

 

[RoboFu]

No, even though this idea has started being thrown around since Helix rumors started.

There is a presentation from the people who first hacked PS4 around 10 years ago. The guy starts with this assumption, that PS4 is just a PC with a closed firmware. He then continues with what a PC is from a technical point of view and explains what they had to do to hack the PS4 and run Linux on it as it's not a PC.
They even have a slide that says that with big letters.

If I can find the video later I will post it.

That's just because everything else besides the cpu, ram, and gpu isn't set up the same and actively stopping people from just putting Linux or windows on it. But that doesn't mean it's not the exact same cpu, gpu, and ram that are even running an os that's based on a pc os using the same APIs.

 

[Brucey]

"This means that Xbox Series S delivers the same incredible next-generation experience and features as Series X — just at a reduced rendering resolution."

But but but he's the "Engineer".....

 

[Embearded]

That's just because everything else besides the cpu, ram, and gpu isn't set up the same and actively stopping people from just putting Linux or windows on it. But that doesn't mean it's not the exact same cpu, gpu, and ram that are even running an os that's based on a pc os using the same APIs.

Well it's not the exact same CPU and GPU if I am not mistaken, at least not the exact same as one you can find on a shelf. It is based on the same family and then they have differences that can potentially not matter when you boot Linux because they are not used but that doesn't stop Linux from running.

But if we overlook that, the "it's just a PC" means something like Steam Machine and the other one that was recently announced.
These machines I'd bet use of the shelf southbridge you can find on motherboards and classic PC architecture. You can potentially install a Linux distribution with no specialized drivers and custom changes.

 

[Baemono]

So like the 3DO from 30 years ago

And will sell the same

 

[Baemono]

examples?

"Next year will be THE year" since 2014
"Starfield is one of the most important game of the generation"
"Ori 2 won't come to the Nintendo Switch"
"Some games are coming to other platforms, but they're not Indiana Jones nor Starfield"
"Game Pass is sustainable"
"Hellblade 2's marketing is coming"
"There will be no Game Pass price increase following the Activision acquisition"

From the ones I can think of

 

[MisterXDTV]

So he basically confirmed it:

No reason to specify "first-party console" if there aren't "third-party" models

 

[PauloRoberto]

examples?

Every time Phil Spencer opened his month is a very good example. The fact that this same Jason relaly believes that Xbox Series S would press PS5 is, for me, proof that he has more knowledge about beards than hardware.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Every time Phil Spencer opened his month is a very good example. The fact that this same Jason relaly believes that Xbox Series S would press PS5 is, for me, proof that he has more knowledge about beards than hardware.

All those guys thought the PS5 Pro was being made to compete with the Series X because the PS5 was so weak when revealed and they didn't need a Series X Pro model

 

[MisterXDTV]

All those guys thought the PS5 Pro was being made to compete with the Series X because the PS5 was so weak when revealed and they didn't need a Series X Pro model

 

[PauloRoberto]

All those guys thought the PS5 Pro was being made to compete with the Series X because the PS5 was so weak when revealed and they didn't need a Series X Pro model

I remember i read you telling that in other topic, thanks for the confirmation... MS (at least gaming part) is managed by a bunch of gullibe idiots, it's really hard to believe anything they say, so DenchDeckard , that's your definitive confirmation...

 

[Baemono]

All those guys thought the PS5 Pro was being made to compete with the Series X because the PS5 was so weak when revealed and they didn't need a Series X Pro model

I recall that

 

[adamsapple]

He didnt debunk anything tho. Everyone knows Helix is Xbox offering, but its the fact that other OEM offering the same

Yep, a baseline of 25% better specs

 

[Ozriel]

Struck a nerve, didnt I ? :-D Only shills and idiots (in case of MS, its the same thing) beleive that a feature that will be widely available is THE BIG NEWS... pathetic

Do you even realize you're the one here shrieking about this being BIG NEWS? Multiple comments, even.

Good Lord, shilling or idiocy?

 

[Horseganador]

It's a limited PC with Windows 11, Helix doesn't need it.

 

[Baemono]

Good Lord, shilling or idiocy?

Shidiocy

 

[DenchDeckard]

"Next year will be THE year" since 2014
"Starfield is one of the most important game of the generation"
"Ori 2 won't come to the Nintendo Switch"
"Some games are coming to other platforms, but they're not Indiana Jones nor Starfield"
"Game Pass is sustainable"
"Hellblade 2's marketing is coming"
"There will be no Game Pass price increase following the Activision acquisition"

From the ones I can think of

Ah, ok I gotcha. I thought we were talking hardware / software stuff.

Totally hear you on the terrible messaging and shit handling of all that.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Every time Phil Spencer opened his month is a very good example. The fact that this same Jason relaly believes that Xbox Series S would press PS5 is, for me, proof that he has more knowledge about beards than hardware.

Please show me where Jason beardman said the series s will "press" the ps5?

 

[PauloRoberto]

Please show me where Jason beardman said the series s will "press" the ps5?

All those guys thought the PS5 Pro was being made to compete with the Series X because the PS5 was so weak when revealed and they didn't need a Series X Pro model

I mean, if after that you continue to defend this false engineer (yes, i saying that jason is a false engineer, someone who wants to sell its product by dimishing others), then its a lost cause

 

[DenchDeckard]

I mean, if after that you continue to defend this false engineer (yes, i saying that jason is a false engineer, someone who wants to sell its product by dimishing others), then its a lost cause

You are honestly using a HeisenbergFX4 post as proof that Jason said the series s would press the ps5.

I love Heisenberg but you gotta get me a public statement before you can post anything like that. This is getting a bit deranged.

Guys, let's take a step back here. Imagine if you had a post from Mark Cerny stating that the next ps is a console. No one would question that. What are we actually doing here.

Jason has never said the series s would press the ps5. You are now using g another poster on gaf as proof that he said it. That's fucking insane.

Under the umbrella of "all those guys as well"

 

[PauloRoberto]

You are honestly using a HeisenbergFX4 post as proof that Jason said the series s would press the ps5.

I love Heisenberg but you gotta get me a public statement before you can post anything like that. This is getting a bit deranged.

Guys, let's take a step back here. Imagine if you had a post from Mark Cerny stating that the next ps is a console. No one would question that. What are we actually doing here.

Jason has never said the series s would press the ps5. You are now using g another poster on gaf as proof that he said it. That's fucking insane.

Under the umbrella of "all those guys as well"

You just showing what reputation means Somethng MS lost completely, unless you are a shill or a gullibe idiot. Either way, ignored.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

So like the 3DO from 30 years ago

Exactly, but if it failed with 3DO and Valve on Steam Machines, let's have faith that it will work on Xbox.
Xbox has definitely dug too deep; they're at a point of no return.

 

[Stafford]

However, with the console looking increasingly poised to target the PC market, it definitely feels like this hardware choice will make it easier than ever for developers to port games to the system.

Trying really hard to see what's the bad news here......this certainly doesn't sound like a bad thing at all.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

You are honestly using a HeisenbergFX4 post as proof that Jason said the series s would press the ps5.

I love Heisenberg but you gotta get me a public statement before you can post anything like that. This is getting a bit deranged.

Guys, let's take a step back here. Imagine if you had a post from Mark Cerny stating that the next ps is a console. No one would question that. What are we actually doing here.

Jason has never said the series s would press the ps5. You are now using g another poster on gaf as proof that he said it. That's fucking insane.

Under the umbrella of "all those guys as well"

I think I have been saying for 3 or 4 years here how that team at Xbox laughed at Sony spending so much money on the SSD and not going for more power in the PS5 and thought the Series X would eat the PS5 in every head to head matchup in games.

I don't recall ever saying specifically though they thought the Series S would push the PS5, not off the top of my head anyhow

I am quite certain those statements came from the top though and hand fed to the people like Tom Warren so those guys could take the public beatings

 

[Steve Holt]

Very surprised that people are defending Jason Ronald's word.

He lied through his teeth about the abilities of the Series S. Everything he says should be taken with a huge pinch of salt imo.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I think I have been saying for 3 or 4 years here how that team at Xbox laughed at Sony spending so much money on the SSD and not going for more power in the PS5 and thought the Series X would eat the PS5 in every head to head matchup in games.

I don't recall ever saying specifically though they thought the Series S would push the PS5, not off the top of my head anyhow

I am quite certain those statements came from the top though and hand fed to the people like Tom Warren so those guys could take the public beatings

They didn't spend money on the SSD, they spent money on an amazing I/O hardware subsystem

But hey, what do they know???

They sold a crazy expensive proprietary card to increase storage that was a PCI-e generation behind PS5

LOL

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Yep, a baseline of 25% better specs

I've heard that before...
- or was it 30% last time?

"Sony made a lot of good decisions on how to use that AMD technology"
"Arguably more efficiently than Microsoft"
"Quite a feat"
~Digital Foundry

 

[MisterXDTV]

I've heard that before...
- or was it 30% last time?

"Sony made a lot of good decisions on how to use that AMD technology"
"Arguably more efficiently than Microsoft"
"Quite a feat"
~Digital Foundry

Only this time it will be 25% faster for a 100% higher price....

What a deal, guys!

 

[adamsapple]

"Sony made a lot of good decisions on how to use that AMD technology"
"Arguably more efficiently than Microsoft"
"Quite a feat"
~Digital Foundry

And now both the next gen machines will use FSR4 variants for machine up-scaling and practically off the market parts.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

And now both the next gen machines will use FSR4 variants for machine up-scaling and practically off the market parts.

FSR4 which was co-developed by Sony. Yeah, let's see if their parts are straight off the shelf..

 

[OverHeat]

FSR4 which was co-developed by Sony. Yeah, let's see if their parts are straight off the shelf..

Nothing is more fun then two warrior arguing

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Xbox Project Helix Has 0 GPU Customization, Leak Claims, Abandoning the Last Thing That Made an Xbox Feel Like One

Xbox Project Helix leak: Microsoft abandons custom GPU for its next-gen system, ending the traditional console era.

wccftech.com

I mean this isn't surprising, no? It's a PC so this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

I'm sure first party games will have presets for the hardware when detected but that will be about it I'm sure. Maybe some third parties will get in on the preset party but I doubt it would be too common.

 

[Astray]

There will be the first party device that Xbox calls a console only because it will have BC for your Xbox library baked in then the same chip used in the "Xbox PC" that does not have BC from places like Asus

Total side note it would not shock me at this point that the first party device could be more expensive than some of the 3rd party Xbox PCs.

Reminds me of how Google does with its Pixel lineup. Some exclusive features but that is it.

I genuinely think they need to pick a lane, you are either a must-have platform or a big 3P AAA publisher, being both in any way hurts both.

 

[KeplerL2]

Wow if they can do that then likely the custom Xbox texture streaming HW is also going to be standard RDNA 5 or they are only doing it on Magnus or taking it out completely? Because I would expect it to be part of this

If you mean the decompression stuff I think that's part of the SoC so wouldn't be on discrete GPUs.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Yep, a baseline of 25% better specs

I try to give Xbox a break whenever possible (mainly out of nostalgia and love for the brand) but they also had a power advantage this generation and it didn't do much for them.

Not to mention the fact that it being a Windows based PC it will have the combo of Windows + the lack of console optimization (I feel like this becomes less and less of a thing as consoles become more PC like but there is definitely something to be said about developing for a single system spec that is almost guaranteed to sell a lot).

 

[Loope]

Do you even realize you're the one here shrieking about this being BIG NEWS? Multiple comments, even.

Good Lord, shilling or idiocy?

idiocy definetly.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Yep, a baseline of 25% better specs

Ah, yes. Exactly the overhead that will be eaten away by Windows 11 and abstraction layers like DX12. Plus additional 10% for that sweet undeletable Copilot Gaming overlay.

 

[adamsapple]

Ah, yes. Exactly the overhead that will be eaten away by Windows 11 and abstraction layers like DX12. Plus additional 10% for that sweet undeletable Copilot Gaming overlay.

 

[GinSama]

As long I'm able to use all my collection of all Xbox games I have, good .
Will buy it day one...., the same with ps6.

Just want the next gen to be able to play my old games.

 

[tr1p1ex]

To me it's always been they dropped out of the console business as we know it until proven otherwise.

 

[Fess]

This seems like the best thing imaginable, why are people down on this? Should mean that any PC, with a 5090 or whatever, could be your next Xbox, assuming they release the software/UI.

Or is the BC solution not included in the no special sauce talk?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think I have been saying for 3 or 4 years here how that team at Xbox laughed at Sony spending so much money on the SSD and not going for more power in the PS5 and thought the Series X would eat the PS5 in every head to head matchup in games.

I don't recall ever saying specifically though they thought the Series S would push the PS5, not off the top of my head anyhow

I am quite certain those statements came from the top though and hand fed to the people like Tom Warren so those guys could take the public beatings

Absolutely man, you know I love you as a poster.

I absolutely 100% believe and feel that many suits at Xbox, with little knowledge of tech could have been sniffing the farts that the series x was gonna wipe the floor with the ps5. We saw the silly emails in the abk case where even Phil was championing the power advantage over ps5 and I know you've shared those sentiments from what you've heard like you put here. I trust you and those insights you've shared over the years.

I also know some ms defenders or shill people made tweets etc in the media. I think it may have been Tom Warren? Or one of those guys where they thought because the CPU was the same in the series s that it could potentially punch weight with ps5. My intention wasn't to defend those guys. Call them out all day. People with little understanding saying stupid shit. They should be called out.

I just trying to imply to that poster that Jason is a serious tech guy. He is Microsoft's Mark Cerny. He's made amazing hardware. Yes, he did the stupid marketing spiel statement of saying those fateful idiotic words that the series s delivers the same games as the series x but at 1440p. Which rightfully haunts him to this day.

But the guy knows what he's doing. Saying that, He did fuckup on memory of the series s, but then I also appreciate they had a price target they needed to hit and Microsoft clearly weren't willing to invest in ensuring the series s had 12gb of memory. So he had to cut back specs. Stupid mistake.

Overall though, they guys just doing a job. He knows a lot more than me, I know that for sure and I think as an enthusiast forum we should at least acknowledge that. He ain't stupid as I think the series X is a really well made console. Efficient, quiet. Guy deserves SOME props. Not a massive amount maybe. But, some.

 

[Ozriel]

Ah, yes. Exactly the overhead that will be eaten away by Windows 11 and abstraction layers like DX12. Plus additional 10% for that sweet undeletable Copilot Gaming overlay.

and yet the Windows vs Linux gaming benchmarks say otherwise.

This seems like the best thing imaginable, why are people down on this? Should mean that any PC, with a 5090 or whatever, could be your next Xbox, assuming they release the software/UI.

Or is the BC solution not included in the no special sauce talk?

It's a nothingburger. You make custom changes to the chipset either when you're trying to add features from a future generation (basically what Sony did with the PS5 Pro…RDNA 2 with some bits from RDNA 3/4) or when you're trying to cut down some components to save money or power consumption eg Valve with the Steamdeck

In this case, RDNA 5 will be AMD's brand new, cutting edge GPU. There's literally nothing newer to blend in. And of course they're stripping nothing out.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

"Next year will be THE year" since 2014
"Starfield is one of the most important game of the generation"
"Ori 2 won't come to the Nintendo Switch"
"Some games are coming to other platforms, but they're not Indiana Jones nor Starfield"
"Game Pass is sustainable"
"Hellblade 2's marketing is coming"
"There will be no Game Pass price increase following the Activision acquisition"

From the ones I can think of

 

[adamsapple]

and yet the Windows vs Linux gaming benchmarks say otherwise.

My positivity saying with a serious face that a device will be neglecting 35% of its specs in overhead

 

[DenchDeckard]

This seems like the best thing imaginable, why are people down on this? Should mean that any PC, with a 5090 or whatever, could be your next Xbox, assuming they release the software/UI.

Or is the BC solution not included in the no special sauce talk?

This is why I don't get why people aren't excited for this.

We have documentation that shows MS is making silicone with AMD that has the BC hardware on the silicone. Why aren't we excited at the thought that we could just buy a pc chip in the future, or a prebuilt with a 5090 that can run your entire Xbox back compatible games and history of games. Even if you don't have it you could pick up classic Xbox games that have been ported that upscale to 4k etc

I don't understand why there isn't excitement around that. But here we are.

 

[IntentionalPun]

We were told the GDK will be universal so we already essentially knew this. No custom extensions like with XS.

 

[Det]

You are honestly using a HeisenbergFX4 post as proof that Jason said the series s would press the ps5.

I love Heisenberg but you gotta get me a public statement before you can post anything like that. This is getting a bit deranged.

Guys, let's take a step back here. Imagine if you had a post from Mark Cerny stating that the next ps is a console. No one would question that. What are we actually doing here.

Jason has never said the series s would press the ps5. You are now using g another poster on gaf as proof that he said it. That's fucking insane.

Under the umbrella of "all those guys as well"

I think I have been saying for 3 or 4 years here how that team at Xbox laughed at Sony spending so much money on the SSD and not going for more power in the PS5 and thought the Series X would eat the PS5 in every head to head matchup in games.

I don't recall ever saying specifically though they thought the Series S would push the PS5, not off the top of my head anyhow

I am quite certain those statements came from the top though and hand fed to the people like Tom Warren so those guys could take the public beatings

No one said anywhere that the Xbox Series S would compete with the PS5, but assuming they thought Sony would need the PS5 Pro to compete with the Xbox Series X, it's safe to extrapolate that they also thought the base PS5 would compete with the Xbox Series S

 

[DenchDeckard]

No one said anywhere that the Xbox Series S would compete with the PS5, but assuming they thought Sony would need the PS5 Pro to compete with the Xbox Series X, it's safe to extrapolate that they also thought the base PS5 would compete with the Xbox Series S

No it isn't. That's not logical by anyone with a minimal knowledge on tech. They knew they had a 4tf box in the series s. Even if they thought the ps5 was 8tf that's half as powerful to how we know they were viewing it at the time.