I had a thought about this: The consumer version is going to have stereo cameras on the front of it. Couldn't you use a sort of augmented reality greenscreen that would show you real-time footage of your own body and peripherals, but replace everything else with the game world?
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No racing game has nailed first person view.
- Thread starter Dartastic
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I had a thought about this: The consumer version is going to have stereo cameras on the front of it. Couldn't you use a sort of augmented reality greenscreen that would show you real-time footage of your own body and peripherals, but replace everything else with the game world?
grosvenor_92
Member
Project CARS has an incredible in cockpit cam, especially for open wheel cars. That's actually not the greatest of representative clips, because its color graded and film stock, which is lovely for the impression you get, but the way driving feels is much closer to the videos you see with go pros, or the contemporary F1 cockpit cams. (and btw I love senna. and the lack of that photography was what was wrong with RUSH).
I think pCARS nails it pretty well.
Here are two random gifs I made of it:
Has project cars been released ? I haven't really heard much about it lately, btw it looks amazing
XGRaViSmOrSX
Member
iracing is pretty good at both simulating the in car feeling and the tension of racing wheel to wheel with others. Granted I usually race the mx-5 cup cars so they are all pretty balanced and that tends to lead to more competitive racing.
Also got to try it with the Oculus Rift recently and it was pretty amazing to be able to look into the apex of an upcoming corner. Unfortunately it was just a demo with me riding shot gun but it was definitely a big jump from just playing on a normal screen without the 3d and head tracking.
Would love to try out pcars in the near future, but I'm not a huge fan of the over powered super cars compared to the more balanced modified Street cars.
Also got to try it with the Oculus Rift recently and it was pretty amazing to be able to look into the apex of an upcoming corner. Unfortunately it was just a demo with me riding shot gun but it was definitely a big jump from just playing on a normal screen without the 3d and head tracking.
Would love to try out pcars in the near future, but I'm not a huge fan of the over powered super cars compared to the more balanced modified Street cars.
Viola of the Abyss
Member
Nice vintage footage there, I'd love to see the movie someday.
As for the topic, I'd say that playing in bumper view with a wheel is about as accurate.
Only step missing will be Oculus Rift to expand the field of view and add head tracking.
Please no... hearing another person's breathe would be horrible immersion-wise.
That's a thing I absolutely hated about NFS Shift. It completely put me off the game.
As for the topic, I'd say that playing in bumper view with a wheel is about as accurate.
Only step missing will be Oculus Rift to expand the field of view and add head tracking.
Please no... hearing another person's breathe would be horrible immersion-wise.
That's a thing I absolutely hated about NFS Shift. It completely put me off the game.
pCARS has a good variety of cars. Both new and old. Not many street cars, but not all cars are supermachines.
And yes, pCARS is the best I've seen so far regarding helmet cams. That said, no game can mimic real head movement and then be somehow playable. People would vomit just from the shake of the camera. The camera musn't follow the head movemen, but the eyes movement.
For replays it's a whole different story.
http://www.lfs.net
Live for Speed nailed it years ago. Why? Because it has fully customizable view with "lateral shift" settings and such. Check it out.
Live for Speed nailed it years ago. Why? Because it has fully customizable view with "lateral shift" settings and such. Check it out.
I'm not a big racing dude in the least, so take this with a grain of salt, but I can't play NFS: Shift (the first one) in anything but cockpit view. And I hate cockpit view.
The sense of speed, the sound design, everything is just amazing in that game, at least to a non fan like me.
The sense of speed, the sound design, everything is just amazing in that game, at least to a non fan like me.
Criterion's NFSMW - **** * **** in this regard.
- the circle, a main face button, is used to switch camera. The camera is either standard nfs behind the car (which can make it hard to see things, like traffic, at high speeds (especially with dropping frames)) and how useful is it? Jack all. The (first person) camera is as low down as the license plate. Useless!! Who did you make that for?
- the circle, a main face button, is used to switch camera. The camera is either standard nfs behind the car (which can make it hard to see things, like traffic, at high speeds (especially with dropping frames)) and how useful is it? Jack all. The (first person) camera is as low down as the license plate. Useless!! Who did you make that for?
That video is 3rd person.
I disagree with the initial statement.
Forza 3 had that cool "work around" where you told it how far back you sat and the view adjusted. 4 had something similar as well. These are by far the best cameras in-game I have seen.
Some have mentioned the PGR series and I would say it's up there.
The problem is that we forget that when camera mounts are on a vehicle, the human eye would compensate while in chassis. Perhaps an interesting camera perspective would be seeing the jostling of the helmet on the head, tilting left and right, as the head naturally countered the forces.
As for Rift, I thought that the first time I tried one. The resolution of the one I tried wasn't very good and I hope they fix the resolution within a reasonable timeframe.
I won't buy one but I'll be glad to mooch off of someone who does. -Adam
Forza 3 had that cool "work around" where you told it how far back you sat and the view adjusted. 4 had something similar as well. These are by far the best cameras in-game I have seen.
Some have mentioned the PGR series and I would say it's up there.
The problem is that we forget that when camera mounts are on a vehicle, the human eye would compensate while in chassis. Perhaps an interesting camera perspective would be seeing the jostling of the helmet on the head, tilting left and right, as the head naturally countered the forces.
As for Rift, I thought that the first time I tried one. The resolution of the one I tried wasn't very good and I hope they fix the resolution within a reasonable timeframe.
I won't buy one but I'll be glad to mooch off of someone who does. -Adam
I've been thinking about this tonight a decent bit (disclaimer: I'm a little drunk now, thanks friends) but I think I understand the problem a little more.
The problem is that most games treat your point of view as something determined by the car. When you drive a car, your point of view is really determined by your eyes. So, you could be on the straightest, slightly bumpy road but you're still focused on a singular focal point. What if driving games in the first person perspective at least tried working like a fps? The car will jump around you, but your right stick determines your viewpoint. Your left stick determines your steering. So you can still be focused on what you need to be focused on as a driver, but still maintain control of your vehicle. Obviously it can't work if you have a wheel or something, but I think it'd be an interesting experiment in terms of creating a more realistic driving simulation.
The problem is that most games treat your point of view as something determined by the car. When you drive a car, your point of view is really determined by your eyes. So, you could be on the straightest, slightly bumpy road but you're still focused on a singular focal point. What if driving games in the first person perspective at least tried working like a fps? The car will jump around you, but your right stick determines your viewpoint. Your left stick determines your steering. So you can still be focused on what you need to be focused on as a driver, but still maintain control of your vehicle. Obviously it can't work if you have a wheel or something, but I think it'd be an interesting experiment in terms of creating a more realistic driving simulation.
First: that vídeo is not in the pov of the driver.
Second: for something closer to the real experience You should try a kart if you have the chance. In virtual reality there are things you'll miss and could only get a glimpse of them if you added a second and third monitor with something like an arcade machine to simulate the bumps and tension of the engine, or through a oculus rift.
With that said, buy a good pc, a good wheel, and try some of the best simulaters of the genre (there's a thread about them on gaf) to experience something closer to reality. I recommend RaceRoom, a very good game that it's free.
Second: for something closer to the real experience You should try a kart if you have the chance. In virtual reality there are things you'll miss and could only get a glimpse of them if you added a second and third monitor with something like an arcade machine to simulate the bumps and tension of the engine, or through a oculus rift.
With that said, buy a good pc, a good wheel, and try some of the best simulaters of the genre (there's a thread about them on gaf) to experience something closer to reality. I recommend RaceRoom, a very good game that it's free.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I like the idea. Don't like the helmet though - further obscures your view.Project CARS has an incredible in cockpit cam, especially for open wheel cars. That's actually not the greatest of representative clips, because its color graded and film stock, which is lovely for the impression you get, but the way driving feels is much closer to the videos you see with go pros, or the contemporary F1 cockpit cams. (and btw I love senna. and the lack of that photography was what was wrong with RUSH).
I think pCARS nails it pretty well.
Here are two random gifs I made of it:
Goldrusher
Member
A good first person view is clean, sterile and boring.
When you drive over bumps, your brain filters that out. So unless you're simulating a camera, all that shaking, zooming and blurring has no place in the first person view.
I think one complication is simulating the cockpit of a car, vs simulating what a driver sees when driving a car.
In that PGR4 shot (which is typical of modern cockpit views), you see a lot of the dash and wheel. Now, if you're actually driving a car - while you might have the dash and wheel in view - they are not what you are concentrating on. This is compounded by the fact that you're sitting on your sofa looking at a screen, so those peripheral details are now front and centre
So personally, although they seem to look less realistic, I like bonnet cams (Daytona USA camera 2) which focus on what you'd be seeing when driving.
Looking forward to trying the driveclub view which is in cockpit but pushed forward so you can't see the wheel
Metalmurphy
Member
Project CARS with a Lotus 49 Cosworth is pretty close to what the OP is describing, if only the other cars were as good.
This. Motion cockpits would provide sensation OP is asking for, current triple-setups for FOV and FPV are more then satisfactory.
On the naming game, first Test Drive Unlimited had almost perfect FOV and seating position. It does not have IQ of PGR or lightning perfection of GT, but regarding FPV execution it is one of the gems of the genre.
Sorry about the mobile link but I'm posting from my iPhone. The below video is footage captured from an amateur US single-seater race with a camera that's mounted in the center of a pair of glasses. Having tested Formula Ford machinery myself, I'd say this is as close as it gets to feeling like you're actually in the car in terms of POV, position etc. deva should aim to emulate this!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KyqA0T2XCw0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=KyqA0T2XCw0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KyqA0T2XCw0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=KyqA0T2XCw0
Amazing to watch that.
The project cars view looks fun enough though, will make sure to get that when I upgrade my old pc.
I don't believe that's the OP point, Waypoetic.
I think Oculus Rift is the closest to providing this feel providing the game does the camera right. With the right camera aperture setting, I would LOVE to play Project Cars, SEGA's Scud Race (I'll be in heaven with that game) and other amazing racing games with this. When I tried the unit at Gamescom, whilst I felt it was a fantastic experience and truly the way forward, I really believe the product needs to be much improved before going to retail. My issues are the following:
1) Motion Blur - Motion blur is still a little strong, in my opinion. Of course, the title genre and style will determine how much blur you will see but still... the issue is apparent.
2) Resolution - Need to be higher than 1080p. At 1080p, you can see too much vertical lines. This needs to be 2k visual (opportunity for the company to sell different versions of ORift, cheap one at 1080p and the Prime experience at 2K visual (good luck PC modders). It's either this or a more improve tech or filter, whatever would solve it.
3) Brightness - The contrast ratio is still low'ish. Of course, this is the area you have to be careful as you don't want to burn out your retina, however, I'm not that knowledgable about the technology behind it so all I can do is mention the issue and hope there would be some understanding and solution.
Crossing my fingers for big improvements for Oculus Rift. If they get it all the tech right together with the pricing then they'll become millionaires for I'll buy 2!
Red Chocobo
Banned
That isn't first-person. It's third-person.
JackAubrey
Member
I thought the over the dashboard view from DriveClub was promising - similar to some of the views Codemasters has used in the Dirt series. Not a dashboard view - slightly higher over the top of the wheel but located on one side of the car rather than in the centre. It's also the idea view if using a racing wheel.
Turin Turambar
Member
Well, what's missing in games in comparison with that video, it's the physical feellng. All the physical shake of the machine, feeling of the bumps of the road, feeling all the acceleration and braking. But for that you need to servo-actuated seat.
Bingo.
matrix-cat
Member
I wish the Kinect 2 and Sony camera could bring head-tracking to the masses. The first time I used my TrackIR is one of my favourite gaming memories ever, because it's such an incredibly useful and enjoyable thing, but also because it's so incredibly intuitive. There's no sense of having to 'learn' to use it like there is with any other peripheral. Your body knows what to do when you decide you want to look in a certain direction, and a head-tracking device just translates that exact movement into the game.
TrackIRs are prohibitively expensive and awkward to all but crazy people like me with HOTASes and gaming PCs, but if both next-gen consoles could just do it with eye-tracking or skeleton-recognition or whatever it'd be fantastic. I totally understand why people don't use first person view in racing games, because moving your viewpoint around with an analogue stick while you're trying to drive is the worst. Head-tracking makes that all go away instantly.
TrackIRs are prohibitively expensive and awkward to all but crazy people like me with HOTASes and gaming PCs, but if both next-gen consoles could just do it with eye-tracking or skeleton-recognition or whatever it'd be fantastic. I totally understand why people don't use first person view in racing games, because moving your viewpoint around with an analogue stick while you're trying to drive is the worst. Head-tracking makes that all go away instantly.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I think that the issue here is the Monaco formula one circuit is very unusual and not really suited for racing in that overtaking is very hard. Maybe more shaky cam would help as well. Eh.
I think that what makes racing exciting, is the battle of speed with physics.
trying to simulate this only in the looks, without what is the real exciting part of it will never work perfectly.
without the physics, the best that graphics alone can take you is at 100% fidelity of being that on-board camera, and never being the driver.
trying to simulate this only in the looks, without what is the real exciting part of it will never work perfectly.
without the physics, the best that graphics alone can take you is at 100% fidelity of being that on-board camera, and never being the driver.
Boaty McBoatface
Member
rFactor 1 to me nailed first person view, here's a gameplay clip I recorded driving Senna's 1993 Maclaren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oi1MVz4sw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oi1MVz4sw8
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Project looks much much better than any other game.
To me the closest have been the NFS Shift games. Real feeling of the horsepower, and perfect balance of visibility and feeling. That's why I'm so excited for Project CARS, basically.
metareferential
Member
Helmet-cam will be incredible on the Rift.
Since it blocks a little of your view, feeling like ski goggles or something similar, it works wonders when actually simulating a helmet.
The underwater demo is something out of this world with the Rift for this exact reason.
Since it blocks a little of your view, feeling like ski goggles or something similar, it works wonders when actually simulating a helmet.
The underwater demo is something out of this world with the Rift for this exact reason.
Diablohead
Member
That seems unplayable to me, I am all for moving heads and not making the car feel stiff but that felt like the wheels were bouncy balls, looking into corners is a toggle or always on in that game?
eso76
Member
are you guys sure you'd like to play a game with so much camera shaking ?
i doubt it.
In real life your head and eyes work against car body movement, watching a screen shake that much and trying to decypher visual informations being thrown at you for minutes ?
Doesn't sound fun.
There's a reason why game designers decided not to go that far,
i doubt it.
In real life your head and eyes work against car body movement, watching a screen shake that much and trying to decypher visual informations being thrown at you for minutes ?
Doesn't sound fun.
There's a reason why game designers decided not to go that far,
Big Takeover
Member
Many good answers already, but I think you may have inadvertently spoke more about yesterday's racecars than today's video games.
No power steering, no electronic diffs, manual gear shifts, 1/3 of the downforce, fully exposed driver, and in the case of your video, no suspended on-board cameras. The MP4/4 is closer to an F2000 car than it is a modern F1 car (excluding power). Today you have life imitating art - F1 is like a video game!
Anyway, like several have already said, the future of immersive digital racing is the Oculus Rift, or some other VR setup.
http://youtu.be/CjePy4h_tVk
No power steering, no electronic diffs, manual gear shifts, 1/3 of the downforce, fully exposed driver, and in the case of your video, no suspended on-board cameras. The MP4/4 is closer to an F2000 car than it is a modern F1 car (excluding power). Today you have life imitating art - F1 is like a video game!
Anyway, like several have already said, the future of immersive digital racing is the Oculus Rift, or some other VR setup.
http://youtu.be/CjePy4h_tVk
shift 2 is the best i've seen. i imagine p.cars takes what they did there a step further. loads of games are featuring cockpit views with awesomely detailed car interiors, but slightly mad studios has really nailed the camera movement and violence of being behind the wheel.
Yup.
Still far too little peripheral vision for me to call it a worthwhile cockpit view.
VicDaMoan03
Member
Personally I think developers should either focus on 1st or 3rd person view for racing games like they do for shooters. When they do both they can perfect either.
Rabbitweed
Member
Personally I always use either the bumper cam or the bonnet cam. The cockpit view just feels like I'm driving from the back seat with a second wheel. That being said, the cockpit view worked pretty well with the Karts and F1 cars in GT5.
Probably the best description of how I feel too.
Phat Michael
Banned
I've seen the doc and its amazing - that said, the clip in the OP is third person isnt it? You can see his head and the wheel so im not sure why any game would emulate this?
When I drive, my brain goes out of its way to eliminate visual distractions and read nothing but essential information. So the most realistic cockpit view for me has always been clear of any cockpit with perhaps a sliver of hood for parallax.
highly detailed cockpits are cool but are for collectors, not driving.
highly detailed cockpits are cool but are for collectors, not driving.
