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[darscot]

It could easily be set in an option screen. It could be as simple as the amount of time between turbos.

 

[Drensch]

That said, it's designed to keep you from losing speed in a curve. Therefore I have no problem with people boosting when the track curves, turns or chicanes.

That answers all the questions you asked.

 

[MrSardonic]

I don’t see how you could bemoan MK snaking yet cherish its addition to F-Zero.

Because I think "snaking" in MarioKart is one dimensional and ruins what I felt the series was based on in SMK. I think the total opposite about the true snaking in FZGX

I see what you were saying, but my personal experience just leaves me feeling that "snaking" in the two franchises is totally different in how it relates to the game (not just in the mechanics of course). It almost produces 2 different games in FZGX.

It seems to me you really prefer snaking in F-Zero because it “fits the game”, I guess because you are driving a hover car?

It's because it allows you to achieve such high speeds, relies on reflex skill, and still requires you to envisage complex strategies for each lap of the course. Snaking is basically largely separate to the "traditional" FZ racing, whereas MK "snaking" is a part of the standard racing that is exploited repeatedly. It is a matter of semantics though!

However, I sure do find every 3D MarioKart before the DS version boring.

So do I. But I don't think the snaking in MK draws it closer to FZ. I'd prefer MK to retain the high speeds of the original SMK and the accurate/tight cornering etc. I just feel like something has gone wrong with the MK series, whereas every console FZ game has only gotten better for me. If you enjoy the snaking in MK, then I'm glad someone is having fun with the entire mechanics of the game...I just felt since MK64 that the mini-boost system was something I despised, and I don't see my opinion changing. I'm basically a MK puritan!

If you're an anti-snaker, you're anti-powerslide boost all together. You can't have it both ways.

Absolutely. I hate the powerslide toggle-boost more than Tingle & Jar-Jar multiplied together, raised to the power Mario's waterpack.

 

[vitaflo]

It wouldn't bother me one bit to see boosting disappear. That said, it's designed to keep you from losing speed in a curve. Therefore I have no problem with people boosting when the track curves, turns or chicanes.

So you're ok if I powerslide boost the entire time on Luigi Circuit. Cool.

 

[Fuzzy]

You all need to read the link Faceless Master posted. Amazing how dead on it is. Scrubs indeed.

From the end of that link...

In the end, playing to win ends up accomplishing much more than just winning. Playing to win is how one improves. Continuous self-improvement is what all of this is really about, anyway. I submit that ultimate goal of the “playing to win” mindset is ironically not just to win…but to improve. So practice, improve, play with discipline, and play to win.

How is snaking against a non-snaker improving your ability if you're so far ahead of them? Couldn't you achieve the same thing on time trial?

 

[Tumalu]

But time trial is at 150cc. Snaking often relies on knowing exactly how many back-and-forth motions you can do on a single straight, and that changes drastically depending on the speed. And of course you need slightly wider roads in 150cc. Practicing in GP mode might be a better example, but then you have to deal with quite a few more items than would be present in an actual online race.

If they were any fucking good, they wouldn't snake. Snakers are typically droppers as well.

Agreed. Ive noticed that most of the snakers ive come across will drop right away if they fall behind. Its damn near impossible to finish a 4 player race online without 1 or 2 dropping out because they are losing.

Since anecdotal evidence seems to be all the rage now, I'll weigh in too. I've never seen a snaker drop. Ever. I'm not just saying this to try to counter your claims; I'm legitimately at a loss to understand how we could have observed such drastically different statistics. I suppose theoretically there could have been players that were trying to snake, and did drop, but when the player isn't even close to keeping up with me, I tend to assume that they're not snaking.

And I don't think that the question of what exactly defines snaking – not in general terms, but in exact statements that could be used to construct an algorithm for future games to regulated mini-turbos – is being given enough consideration here. For example:

"No more than one mini-turbo per 45 degrees of curvature in the track to be executed only in sections where the track is already curved."

But even then, stages like Peach Circuit, Luigi Circuit, or Sky Gardens would allow for a huge number of mini-turbos.


And to those likening snaking to camping in an FPS, the biggest difference that I see between the two is that not everyone can camp in an FPS - or if they did, then there wouldn't be any game left to play. With snaking, however, there's nothing stopping everyone from doing it (in terms of gameplay mechanics at least) – arguably, it makes things all the more competitive.

 

[WindyMan]

post

Pretty much sums it up. Unless the anti-snaking crowd can come up with a way to define what constitutes "too many mini-turbos" in a way in which everyone (that is, 100% of the MKDS ownership) can agree on, you have no arguement.

It's fine that you don't like mini-turbos, but that doesn't change the fact that they are part of the game design. If you don't want to snake, then you're going to lose against someone that does. Welcome to the cut-throat world of competitive online games.

Personally, I would rather Nintendo take the mini-turbos out and come up with some other way of keeping/gaining speed through turns. The turbo mechanic has had its time. Maybe make the next MK game more like a real racing game?

But there's a general matter of sportsmanship that comes into play here.

The only aspect of sportsmanship in online games is to not disconnect when you're about to lose. As long as everything you do falls within the rules laid out by the game system, no one has a right to complain about your actions.

 

[Drensch]

So you're ok if I powerslide boost the entire time on Luigi Circuit. Cool.

WTF? It's an oval, according to what I posted, there are 2 hair pin turns in total at each end.

Snakers are bitches. And this thread proves it. Any excuse or loophole they can squeeze out to race like assholes. You can get away with playing like a bitch online. But don't try that shit in the presence of other people. Doing that shit with other people is worth a kick in the balls. God forfucking bid people try to be honorable and fair to people who wnat to play a game online. Have fun next year when your dpad doesn't work.

 

[Tumalu]

WTF? It's an oval, according to what I posted, there are 2 hair pin turns in total at each end.

Snakers are bitches. And this thread proves it. Any excuse or loophole they can squeeze out to race like assholes. You can get away with playing like a bitch online. But don't try that shit in the presence of other people. Doing that shit with other people is worth a kick in the balls. God forfucking bid people try to be honorable and fair to people who wnat to play a game online. Have fun next year when your dpad doesn't work.

I assumed he was referring to the GBA "Luigi’s Circuit," which is full of turns. That one's not online though, so maybe I misunderstood.

And again, if you're wearing out your D-Pad by snaking, then I don't think you’re doing it quite right. Hitting left/right 2-3 times per second shouldn't hurt your thumbs, nor should it destroy your D-Pad, yet it's fast enough to at least keep up with every other snaker that I've come across. Just so long as you don't try to go too fast and end up hitting left/right without it counting.

And lastly, it's posts like the one quoted above, that cause those in favor of snaking to call "anti-snakers" whiners. You didn't address any of the points; you just called all snakers "bitches" and threatened to kick them in the balls. Ironic no?

 

[Tain]

Snakers are bitches. And this thread proves it. Any excuse or loophole they can squeeze out to race like assholes. You can get away with playing like a bitch online. But don't try that shit in the presence of other people. Doing that shit with other people is worth a kick in the balls. God forfucking bid people try to be honorable and fair to people who wnat to play a game online. Have fun next year when your dpad doesn't work.

The biggest problem I have is that it's a fuzzy line. I also hate the thought of players having to limit themselves to make a game fun, but that's secondary. What about rapid boosting on a big turn? Or a series of two boosts in a row? Anything like that.

 

[WindyMan]

Snakers are bitches. And this thread proves it. Any excuse or loophole they can squeeze out to race like assholes. You can get away with playing like a bitch online. But don't try that shit in the presence of other people. Doing that shit with other people is worth a kick in the balls. God forfucking bid people try to be honorable and fair to people who wnat to play a game online. Have fun next year when your dpad doesn't work.

What the hell are you talking about? The only thing this thread has proven so far is that snaking is not a gameplay flaw or underhanded tactic. It's a result of the design choice of mini-turbos for powersliding.

The only assholes I've seen online are the ones that disconnect from me when I was about to beat them. It's been established that not all people that disconnect are snakers, and vice versa.

Grow up.

 

[-james-]

But time trial is at 150cc. Snaking often relies on knowing exactly how many back-and-forth motions you can do on a single straight, and that changes drastically depending on the speed. And of course you need slightly wider roads in 150cc. Practicing in GP mode might be a better example, but then you have to deal with quite a few more items than would be present in an actual online race.



Since anecdotal evidence seems to be all the rage now, I'll weigh in too. I've never seen a snaker drop. Ever. I'm not just saying this to try to counter your claims; I'm legitimately at a loss to understand how we could have observed such drastically different statistics. I suppose theoretically there could have been players that were trying to snake, and did drop, but when the player isn't even close to keeping up with me, I tend to assume that they're not snaking.

And I don't think that the question of what exactly defines snaking – not in general terms, but in exact statements that could be used to construct an algorithm for future games to regulated mini-turbos – is being given enough consideration here. For example:

"No more than one mini-turbo per 45 degrees of curvature in the track to be executed only in sections where the track is already curved."

But even then, stages like Peach Circuit, Luigi Circuit, or Sky Gardens would allow for a huge number of mini-turbos.


And to those likening snaking to camping in an FPS, the biggest difference that I see between the two is that not everyone can camp in an FPS - or if they did, then there wouldn't be any game left to play. With snaking, however, there's nothing stopping everyone from doing it (in terms of gameplay mechanics at least) – arguably, it makes things all the more competitive.

Im not antisnaking, im all for boosting multiple times through the corners, and hell i boost like a madman through the mud on Luigis Mansion. Ive just seen that when a snaker gets ahead during a 4 player race, gets hammered by blueshells and falls behind during the final lap, alot of them drop out. I never drop out of a race, and ive had my ass handed to me by people that were much better than i am, but its still fun. Anyway, when im online and im racing snakers, i will snake to keep up, but if the others are not snaking, the game seems more complete and alot more fun. I could give a shit about my online record (109-116 last time i checked), snakers or no snakers its a damn fun game.

 

[Grug]

They should have got rid of the walls on Rainbow Road. Then we would have seen how good these snakers really are.

 

[Tumalu]

Im not antisnaking, im all for boosting multiple times through the corners, and hell i boost like a madman through the mud on Luigis Mansion. Ive just seen that when a snaker gets ahead during a 4 player race, gets hammered by blueshells and falls behind during the final lap, alot of them drop out. I never drop out of a race, and ive had my ass handed to me by people that were much better than i am, but its still fun. Anyway, when im online and im racing snakers, i will snake to keep up, but if the others are not snaking, the game seems more complete and alot more fun. I could give a shit about my online record (109-116 last time i checked), snakers or no snakers its a damn fun game.

I wasn't trying to discount your experiences; I was just stating that I've never seen that happen. I see people drop quite regularly, but in every case that I've witnessed, they're either not snaking, or doing it so poorly that I can't tell. My main difference of opinion with you seems to be that I find the game to be more fun when everyone is snaking. It makes it so that the smallest mistake can cost you the race. Then again, that might have as much to do with the fact that they're all good players as it does the fact that they're snakers.

The point that I/others was/were trying to make is that there's a pretty fine line between snaking and not snaking. Especially when you start to double mini-turbo through tight S-curves, prepare for mini-turbos a second or so before the turn, and try to get one last mini-turbo in at the end of a turn as it's straitening out again. Some people see these things as a form of snaking; others don't.


And, Grug, a good snaker should know when not to snake. Even with the edges in Rainbow Road, I rarely make the attempt – and I usually still end up beating those that do. What little benefit can be had in that race by snaking hardly seems worth the risk.

 

[Roders5]

looks like it's time to pull out the sirlin article...

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

all the snaking haters need to read that and think on it for a few minutes...

That just changed my opinion on snaking, now I must play to WIN nomatter what. That guy has some great articles, shares a lot of my thoughts.

 

[The Faceless Master]

That just changed my opinion on snaking, now I must play to WIN nomatter what. That guy has some great articles, shares a lot of my thoughts.

thank god someone read it!

playing PD0, some bitch complains that shooting him in the back is cheap... then gives me negative feedback!?

and then there's this guy on DOA4 who says i'm doing "asshole moves"...

and all the people who were in that smash bros thread saying using the analog stick for moves was cheap...

i mean, what is with people making up imaginary rules to have imaginary fun with their imaginary renditions of the games they are playing...

 

[vitaflo]

WTF? It's an oval, according to what I posted, there are 2 hair pin turns in total at each end.

Snakers are bitches. And this thread proves it. Any excuse or loophole they can squeeze out to race like assholes. You can get away with playing like a bitch online. But don't try that shit in the presence of other people. Doing that shit with other people is worth a kick in the balls. God forfucking bid people try to be honorable and fair to people who wnat to play a game online. Have fun next year when your dpad doesn't work.

:lol :lol :lol

BTW, there's no straight parts of Luigi Circuit. Even the "straight" parts are curved. That's my point. You're going to have to define every single curve in the game that is "powerboost certified" which nobody will ever agree on. So I'm going to boost whenever I need to.