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[JasonUresti]

The greatest problem of Doom 3 is that, despite looking good, it was a HUGE technological leap BACKWARDS.

From Doom to Doom 2, then Quake we had more complex and expansive environments. Some sense of wonder. And then Doom 3 came it was back down to very tiny and crammed rooms. That's just not the tradeoff one can accept.

Graphical fidelity cannot push back so much what the engine can do. So in the end Doom 3 was an engine that overall could do so much less, and it was so much more limited. Gameplay was shallow and repetitive.

The game simply looking good, within huge technological constraints, just isn't enough to make it into a good game.

That is very similar to my feelings. It feels in many aspects like a throwback to the more simple corridor crawl FPS games pre-Doom. Small environments, tight cramped corridors, fighting only a few enemies at a time. Doom 3 plays more like a graphical update to something like Blake Stone or Catacombs than a sequel to Doom 1 & 2.

 

[Diablohead]

awesome. love this guy's videos

I played Doom 3 for the first time a few years ago via BFG edition and was surprised how much i enjoyed it and how well the visuals held up. it must have looked mind melting in 2004

if half life hadn't stole its thunder it'd probably be better regarded, despite it not really being a Doom game

I had to play doom 3 on a pentium4 and a Radeon 9600 at 800x600 and enjoyed it, the flashlight could get annoying but it also added to the creep factor.
Though it was really slow paced compared to the original dooms, maybe 3 could have been a side game and been received better.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Those monster closets. Those overused, predictable, laughable monster closets.

But it was a very unique game. Not many developers have the guts to make the main protagonist too mentally deficient to use something as simple as a flashlight.

 

[Dictator93]

Will watch the video later. But I must say, I have played doom 3 in my life more than Half Life 2. That says something.

 

[Imperfected]

The only real issue I ever had with Doom 3 was the level design, if I'm to be honest. That just happens to be a pretty big thing to take issue with in a single-player FPS.

Edit: I suppose I should be more specific, and say that very early on in the experience the monster closets/peekaboo encounters became predictable and tedious for me. Ironically, it's probably the "old" DOOM/Romero-style design elements that I liked the least, as I felt the game was generally pretty decent when it wasn't spawning an Imp behind me every time I picked up a Health pack or predictably locking me into a room full of spiders for an arena brawl.

 

[Drencrom]

My single favorite thing from Doom 3, the thing which I'm most annoyed didn't get copied by other games is the detailed use of computer systems in the game. I was SO sure when I first played the game that it was the future of gaming, that it would be like a standard feature from then on out. But no, a decade later and I'm still pressing E to "use" in almost everything.

I'd love for them to include some kind of backend into a new idTech or Unreal engine or something specifically to simulate computer systems.

It's a testament that those interactive computer systems in Doom 3 still feel so fresh and immersive. I still really don't understand why more games didn't adapt that.

 

[OBias]

It's a testament that those interactive computer systems in Doom 3 still feel so fresh and immersive. I still really don't understand why more games didn't adapt that.

My single favorite thing from Doom 3, the thing which I'm most annoyed didn't get copied by other games is the detailed use of computer systems in the game. I was SO sure when I first played the game that it was the future of gaming, that it would be like a standard feature from then on out. But no, a decade later and I'm still pressing E to "use" in almost everything.

I'd love for them to include some kind of backend into a new idTech or Unreal engine or something specifically to simulate computer systems.

I think the only other game with such in-game GUI I'm aware of is SiN Episodes. Its predecessor also had DOS-like interactive computers.

 

[funking giblet]

Something up with those videos, the game is not as dark as in those videos.

 

[Dictator93]

My single favorite thing from Doom 3, the thing which I'm most annoyed didn't get copied by other games is the detailed use of computer systems in the game. I was SO sure when I first played the game that it was the future of gaming, that it would be like a standard feature from then on out. But no, a decade later and I'm still pressing E to "use" in almost everything.

I'd love for them to include some kind of backend into a new idTech or Unreal engine or something specifically to simulate computer systems.

Star Citizen has diagetic displays and interactive terminals. One of the only other games that I know which is following that path laid by doom 3 (I think Alien Isolation follows a similar path, but it was only keyboard navigatable).

 

[DSix]

The stamina bar is NEVER used up in the footage (you know, the stamina bar for RUNNING which is a major part of the well balanced rythm between exploration and combat in D3).
The run was absolutely essential to enjoy the combat, it made you move much faster like classic doom and made the fights so much more enjoyable and fun, especially on the big expansion open spaces (which the guy complains so much about...).

It's like someone making an indepth critique of castlevania only to not notice that you can use sub-weapons. This is dumb.
All this walking footage on top of the ill-conceived commentary was so painful to watch...

 

[IbizaPocholo]

I loved doom3.I love the horror elements in the game and checking the terminals.

 

[evilromero]

I've always liked Doom 3. It's pretty pedestrian by today's standards but it's inclusion of the Doom thematics and basic story elements is what attracts me most. Mars setting, hard directional lighting. It's a decent horror game. I wish the intro wasn't so long though. Games at that time were really into that extended Halflife opening.

 

[FaintDeftone]

Doom 3 is a fantastic game and I never understood the hate. In terms of horror games, it is one of my favorites. It may not be in line with the other two, but it is a unique experience I think it's a stronger game overall since I was always frustrated getting lost in the "mazes".

I remember first playing through it and that damn demon door that has the face pop out of it when you try to open it scared the HELL out of me.

 

[DocSeuss]

Aww yissss. Doom 3 is one of those games that deserves more love, despite its flaws. Will watch when I get a chance. Love his videos.

Guy does good work, shame he had personal issues that screwed up his rise

His Fear retrospective is a must watch

What are you referring to?

 

[Drain You]

Never heard of this dude plus I really don't have strong opinions on the Doom games (Always been more of a Quake guy ) . Can't say I disagree with much of anything he is saying though. Only made it through about 10 minutes so far. Will finish in a bit.

 

[lazygecko]

So the TLDR version of the video is that Doom 3 is not as fondly remembered as the originals because the type of template that Doom 3 chose is pretty dime a dozen today, while new games in the vein of the original Doom is an exceptional rarity. So when judged on its own merits within a vacuum it deserves more accolade.

I can see where he's coming from with that mindset (pretty much the reverse happened with Doom 64 which was dismissed at the time since those types of games had hit their saturation point, but it has since been re-evaluated as a gem of the franchise). I don't really think Doom 3 stood out that much even at the time though. It felt far too derivative of the bog standard post-Half-Life FPS to me right when I played it from the start.

I actually laughed when I saw those infamous screenshots of the game optimized to run on a Voodoo 2 with all of the lighting removed, since it made all the raw textures look like almost a carbon copy of Half Life's Black Mesa environments.

 

[potatohead]

Yep still love this game, always did.

 

[EGM1966]

I enjoyed it once I adjusted to what it was (and wasn't). It's flaws are obvious but it did a lot right too and it was fun to experience.

Man though did I love the interactive screens. Why didn't that become the norm? So elegant and simple.

Ultimately I guess for many it's biggest sin was to fundamentally change the pace, combat and flow of the experience but if you took it for the very different beast it was it had a lot of charm (even if it went on a bit too long).

 

[Krafter]

I love Doom 3, and I say that as a huge fan of the first two which I regard as the best shooters ever made. It's different, but loved it all the same.

 

[AlteredForms]

Yep still love this game, always did.

Somebody is trying to crash the damn servers!

But the most scariest thing about Doom 3 is that you can't attach your flashlight to your weapons. It scares me to this day.

 

[Imperfected]

So the TLDR version of the video is that Doom 3 is not as fondly remembered as the originals because the type of template that Doom 3 chose is pretty dime a dozen today, while new games in the vein of the original Doom is an exceptional rarity. So when judged on its own merits within a vacuum it deserves more accolade.

More or less. I think there's an interesting sub-discussion to be had with regards to that assertion, that DOOM3 cannot "age well" until the template it was built on is no longer in use by modern games. That's certainly an interesting point.

Are there any examples of games that people feel have "aged well" in genres that are still active that haven't been iterated on significantly?

 

[potatohead]

More or less. I think there's an interesting sub-discussion to be had with regards to that assertion, that DOOM3 cannot "age well" until the template it was built on is no longer in use by modern games. That's certainly an interesting point.

Are there any examples of games that people feel have "aged well" in genres that are still active that haven't been iterated on significantly?

I think it is a fair argument. But I would have to disagree with the assertion if that is what someone is saying, not that you are saying it.

I think DOOM3 is a lot more coherent and offers a lot more substance than the average singleplayer shooter. It has a very strong and brooding ambience, excellent use of colour and darkness, and in relative terms quite a bit of interactivity with the environment.

There is even some exploring and backtracking to do which I found appropriate for the setting and was not overused. The concept of the door lock/unlock system and the CODEC I found actually very interesting and very fitting for the style of the game. Almost like what one would expect exploring a decrepit space station.

I think if we compare DOOM3 to contemporary singleplayer FPS experiences I expect it to compare very positively in many respects.

Sure there may be broad similarities with the mostly linear experience of DOOM3, but that shouldn't discount the creative level design that DOOM3 has over contemporary rivals in this department.

Not everything is perfectly done of course, but it has a lot going for it in regards to artistic design, variety of weapons, and even some so-so platforming sections that diversify the experience.

Without typing anything even longer at least IMO I think DOOM3 really does offer more than most current FPS singleplayer experiences.

FWIW the most recent FPS experiences I enjoyed most were probably Wolfenstein TNO and Killzone SF. And recently replayed HL2 Update and enjoyed that a lot too

Somebody is trying to crash the damn servers!

But the most scariest thing about Doom 3 is that you can't attach your flashlight to your weapons. It scares me to this day.

Haha yea it is still a hilarious design decision, interesting at the very least

But there's always mods for it at least on the PC version

Thanks also, and those are all from the vanilla DOOM3 btw, I never bought BFG edition, never really seemed necessary to buy with all the changes anyway. And IIRC vanilla DOOM3 is a lot more easily moddable or something.

 

[Sinatar]

Something up with those videos, the game is not as dark as in those videos.

He's playing the BFG edition which butchered the lighting.

 

[DeadTrees]

Doom3 is good for 2-3 hours and then the repetition killed it

I'm sorry, you'll have to edit your post to reflect this thread's insane revisionist praise toward this polished turd. I mean, with a "defense" like this video, who even needs to say mean things about this game anymore?

"The execution isn't uniformly charismatic, but it is wholly planned out with an uncommon amount of care."
"While it means nothing and does nothing, you can back up files across half the face of Mars."
"To be honest, the monster closets aren't frightening."
"If you enter a room and aren't immediately attacked, they'll spawn momentarily. It's predictable."
"Derivative, maybe. Maybe a lot, but that's the idea of B-horror."
"Since you want the items in the cabinet, you'll listen to the log, and you'll get an atmospheric ramble, whether you like it or not."
"[Doom 3] might not have defined the gameplay rhythm of a generation of shooters, but it surely defined how a generation of slower first-person shooter titles would light their hallways."

 

[hooijdonk17]

Doom 3 was fucking great. Rage is even better.

 

[plagiarize]

I was never Doom 3's biggest fan. Until I played it in VR start to finish. Totally changed my mind on the game. Doom 3 in VR is better than Half Life 2 in VR imho. Probably the best thing I've played in VR to date, and I really hope someone updates the VR mod for the consumer Oculus so more people get to experience it.

 

[BigTnaples]

I was never Doom 3's biggest fan. Until I played it in VR start to finish. Totally changed my mind on the game. Doom 3 in VR is better than Half Life 2 in VR imho. Probably the best thing I've played in VR to date, and I really hope someone updates the VR mod for the consumer Oculus so more people get to experience it.

I had no Idea this was even a thing. I would kill to play this game on my Oculus.


BTW, is it possible to play the BFG Edition without the flashlight mod addition?

 

[PantsuJo]

I loved Doom3. It's funny&furious shooting fest, why such hate against the game?
It lacks of inspiring level design, sure, but it's a damn good fps. Fast and brutal!

 

[Vitten]

My main gripe with 3 was the lack of gameplay variation.

Creeping through samey looking corridors hour after hour really started to get old.
The game never mixes up the action: it's always you crawling through the same old corridors,the odd monster popping up every now and then with the scenery and the creatures only changing slightly and slowly as you progress through the base.

It never introduces anything new or exciting as you move along the game. Heck, even the hell chapters didn't offer anything new when I finally got there.. Didn't even look like hell anyway.

Compare this to a game like Half-Life 2 were there's something fresh happening every 10 yards and you realise how limited the game is.

 

[Data West]

I enjoy his videos, but I really wish he could condense them a little more. They definitely drag a lot of the time.

 

[aygomyownroad]

My main gripe with Doom 3 was the final boss and the reliance on that cube you found as a weapon.

Really enjoyed it though, I hope the new Doom is closer to the first 2 but with the execution mechanic I'm beginning to worry on an over reliance on that.

Also lol and not using the run button in the video. It was a quick game when used

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It was so bizarre how it occasionally remembered it was a DooM game. Like, you got the shotgun and of course it lowered you into a pit full of zombies. Traps!

It's a good game, just not a good Doom game. It's weird how this became more of a survival horror whilst Resident Evil became more action-based.

 

[hooijdonk17]

I just had the time to watch the video, and the points he makes about the expansion are not what I remember of it at all. I played them back to back and it seemed like a pretty natural extension of the same theme and mood, not the kind of underfunded mediocrity he claims it is.

 

[BigTnaples]

So I am attempting to mod my Doom 3 up to snuff. Just installed "Perfected Doom 3" and now I see there is a mod released 3 years later called "Absolute HD".


Which will give me the best graphical fidelity? I remember seeing some awesome DoF and Textures in some screens here.

 

[Metal-Geo]

So I am attempting to mod my Doom 3 up to snuff. Just installed "Perfected Doom 3" and now I see there is a mod released 3 years later called "Absolute HD".


Which will give me the best graphical fidelity? I remember seeing some awesome DoF and Textures in some screens here.

sikkmod and the Wulfen texture pack are the only mods you need.

Wulfen adds incredibly well made high resolution textures.

sikkmod adds a large bag of features to the engine: soft shadows, depth of field (with bokeh), ambient occlusion (including SSAO and HBAO), lens flares, parallax occlusion mapping, colour grading, motion blur and more...! And they're all customizable and toggleable. Depending on your settings, it can be verypunishing on the FPS, though.

Both mods compliment each other real well.

 

[BigTnaples]

sikkmod and the Wulfen texture pack are the only mods you need.

Wulfen adds incredibly well made high resolution textures.

sikkmod adds a large bag of features to the engine: soft shadows, depth of field (with bokeh), ambient occlusion (including SSAO and HBAO), lens flares, parallax occlusion mapping, colour grading, motion blur and more...! And they're all customizable and toggleable. Depending on your settings, it can be verypunishing on the FPS, though.

Both mods compliment each other real well.

Nice thank you. Seem to be having a problem with Sikkmod however, the screen is all corrupted, there is black everywhere, and the image is super distorted.


3770k
970 FTW SLI
16GB Ram
W10

Unplayable like this. Is there a certain Sikkmod feature that I should disable?

 

[verbatimo]

I really like Perfected Doom, because it adds more random enemies/enemy groups into the game, making it more challenging,

 

[BigTnaples]

Okay so for whatever reason, it was soft shadows. When enabled, everything is broken.


Is this a known issue? Work around?


Also, which is the best SSAO method is the best? Crytek? HBAO? Ray Marching?

 

[21XX]

Good to see this guy's Patreon money is going toward what I imagine is the incredibly high cost of ripping let's plays off of yotube, popping them in a timeline and then recording tinny audio over it.

 

[dogen]

The gun play in Doom 3 feels sublime, the guns sound and feel powerful and are fun to use, minus the pistol. The game is great as a shooter.

Can't agree. Doom 3's guns felt and sounded pretty weak to me. The machine gun was a pea shooter, the shotgun felt slow and the spread was ridiculously oversized(although it did sound pretty good), the chaingun didn't feel nearly as direct or responsive as the old one(the timing of shots just felt way off. doom1/2 chaingun shot timing was very intuitive if you understand what I mean), plasma gun was alright, but shot too slowly and sounded weak. Rocket was alright iirc, don't remember the bfg.

In doom 1/2 every gun felt good or great, except the pistol, but the pistol is supposed to feel weak.

 

[Brerlappin]

Doom 3 has aged brilliantly. Its almost refreshing to play nowadays. I loved it in 2004, and still love it in 2016. Its sound, graphics and monster design is incredible even today. My only complaint is its a 15 hour campaign stretched into a 20 hour one

 

[RandomExpletive]

Good to see this guy's Patreon money is going toward what I imagine is the incredibly high cost of ripping let's plays off of yotube, popping them in a timeline and then recording tinny audio over it.

I uh... you wanna back those claims up? Pretty sure he's recording his own footage for these


Dat drive-by, sheesh

 

[BigTnaples]

Doom 3 has aged brilliantly. Its almost refreshing to play nowadays. I loved it in 2004, and still love it in 2016. Its sound, graphics and monster design is incredible even today. My only complaint is its a 15 hour campaign stretched into a 20 hour one

I agree. Playing it right now and I had forgotten how much I loved this game on release.


I remember it was the first game I ever bought a graphics card specifically for. In fact, I bought an entire PCjust to play the damn leaked Alpha, and then bought another graphics card on release.

Loved everything about it, spooky audio logs, the way every room and area was different and had purpose, told a story.


The interactive screens, videos, everything.


Amazing game.





Also, side note. Can't, figure it out but there is a huge shadow anytime I go "outside" on Mars. It encompasses everything, moves, and if I step into it, my screen is near completely black. Not really a big deal yet aside from the immersion break, but I would still love to fix it.

 

[EBE]

this shit blew my fucking mind on the original xbox. fantastic port

 

[Sora the Cat]

I honestly didn't know that doom 3 needed a defense. Always thought people loved it back then, maybe because I wasn't on internet forums that much.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Okay so for whatever reason, it was soft shadows. When enabled, everything is broken.


Is this a known issue? Work around?


Also, which is the best SSAO method is the best? Crytek? HBAO? Ray Marching?

Sorry to say this but that's all for you to find out. You're gonna have to tweak those sliders and numbers yourself to get a result you're most satisfied way. Both performance wise and visually!

Both SSAO and soft shadows are off for me. As much as I enjoy pretty games, I also enjoy games with a decent framerate heh

 

[BigTnaples]

Really though, I know some people will disagree, and I get the faster pacing and brighter colors of the new Doom getting people excited.


But it just doesn't have the oomph Doom 3 had.


Yes it was slower paced, and darker. But it also felt fresh )"(at the time). And it nailed that feeling of being alone during hell on Mars.

The original doom was fun, but it was also haunting and horrifying. The new Doom seems to have none of those qualities.


I remember reading the intro to the original Doom in the Manuel, and the idea was so perfect. Not the most fleshed out. But the way it set up what was about to happen, was great.


This just feels like Serious Sam with Doom skins IMO.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Can't agree. Doom 3's guns felt and sounded pretty weak to me. The machine gun was a pea shooter, the shotgun felt slow and the spread was ridiculously oversized(although it did sound pretty good), the chaingun didn't feel nearly as direct or responsive as the old one(the timing of shots just felt way off. doom1/2 chaingun shot timing was very intuitive if you understand what I mean), plasma gun was alright, but shot too slowly and sounded weak. Rocket was alright iirc, don't remember the bfg.

In doom 1/2 every gun felt good or great, except the pistol, but the pistol is supposed to feel weak.

The weapons in Doom 3 are generally OK with me, except the shotgun. The shotgun in Doom 3 is just garbage compared to the shotgun in Doom and Doom 2.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Good to see this guy's Patreon money is going toward what I imagine is the incredibly high cost of ripping let's plays off of yotube, popping them in a timeline and then recording tinny audio over it.

His 'tiny audio' is a million times more informative and evocative than the (usually) shitty gameplay videos featured as visual filler.

 

[Helscream]

Great breakdown as always.Really dig his work.