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[StuBurns]

It'll be fine, the game will be released next year. I'm confident we would hear much more about the game once they've finished focusing on DOTA2. They've easily expanded their portfollio since episode 2 so they can feel happy returning to full production on the title now that they've had some space to try other things.

Yeah, I think next year is very possible, and perfect. I hope you're right.

 

[Ellis Kim]

Photorealistic lighting? Awesome. The lighting in the CG trailer was something else entirely

Oh, what could have been...

I'm still waiting for a Viera action game, with all of the FFTA(2) classes.

sigh

 

[SkylineRKR]

This man is right.
FFXIII was a giant step back into ATARI 2600 gameplay dimensions while FFXII tried to innovate the genre with breaking up the old formula and taking jrpgs into the era after 8bit. FFXIII just made it more stale. It's unbelievable how much they fucked up with that - probably out of spite against matsuno

Square had a winner in its hands with FFXII. It seemed to be a perfect blend between east and west and would feed both markets well. It was actually a proper push forward for the JRPG genre as a whole.

The politics focused story wasn't great, at least not what I would want to see in a numbered offline FF, but that doesn't have to do with the rest. That could easily be changed for a next game. XIII propelled all of that back into time, its as if Square listened to that vocal minority who wanted separate battle screens, spiky hair and personal melodrama back. And judging from the obscene amount of hand holding, tutorials and Leona Lewis, S-E was obviously clueless.

I initially didn't like XII for its changes, as I expected another FFX kind of game at the time. But after playing XIII I really began to see things in a different perspective, which is that FFXII was a good choice and a step in the right direction. What do we get nowadays? Star Ocean 4, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon.. stale right there.

 

[ZombieFred]

Yeah, I think next year is very possible, and perfect. I hope you're right.

I feel very safe and confident that it will release in 2012. We know Valve have got some staff on updating and reworking their development tools for Source (I believe one fellow GAF member here also mentioning that they are looking into overhauling their rendering code as well) and it was most likely that they wanted to heavily improve several technical areas to really accommodate a sequel for half-life, as they are recognised for their technical brilliance and storytelling presentation. It makes sense.

Square had a winner in its hands with FFXII. It seemed to be a perfect blend between east and west and would feed both markets well. It was actually a proper push forward for the JRPG genre as a whole.

The politics focused story wasn't great, at least not what I would want to see in a numbered offline FF, but that doesn't have to do with the rest. That could easily be changed for a next game. XIII propelled all of that back into time, its as if Square listened to that vocal minority who wanted separate battle screens, spiky hair and personal melodrama back. And judging from the obscene amount of hand holding, tutorials and Leona Lewis, S-E was obviously clueless.

I initially didn't like XII for its changes, as I expected another FFX kind of game at the time. But after playing XIII I really began to see things in a different perspective, which is that FFXII was a good choice and a step in the right direction.

Square really crafted an identidy of its own with Final Fantasy 12, getting praise by some of the biggest critics to the genre (Edge for example), which is really no easy feat to do. Why they didn't continue this route and made Final Fantasy relevant against other well known RPG developers today is beyound me.

 

[StuBurns]

I feel very safe and confident that it will release in 2012. We know Valve have got some staff on updating and reworking their development tools for Source (I believe one fellow GAF member here also mentioning that they are looking into overhauling their rendering code as well) and it was most likely that they wanted to heavily improve several technical areas to really accommodate a sequel for half-life, as they are recognised for their technical brilliance and storytelling presentation. It makes sense.

Yeah, certainly true, and Gabe has indeed indicated there will be a reworked renderer in the future that will split the Source code base firmly for the first time. Essentially what would be a Source 2 if they were to rebrand. I think DotA2 being the end of the current Source.

This is pretty off topic, but yeah, I hope 2012 is the year.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Square had a winner in its hands with FFXII. It seemed to be a perfect blend between east and west and would feed both markets well. It was actually a proper push forward for the JRPG genre as a whole.

The politics focused story wasn't great, at least not what I would want to see in a numbered offline FF, but that doesn't have to do with the rest. That could easily be changed for a next game. XIII propelled all of that back into time, its as if Square listened to that vocal minority who wanted separate battle screens, spiky hair and personal melodrama back. And judging from the obscene amount of hand holding, tutorials and Leona Lewis, S-E was obviously clueless.

I initially didn't like XII for its changes, as I expected another FFX kind of game at the time. But after playing XIII I really began to see things in a different perspective, which is that FFXII was a good choice and a step in the right direction. What do we get nowadays? Star Ocean 4, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon.. stale right there.

The story and scenario was half-finished when they kicked out matsuno.
I really would've liked to see that game in his original vision.
Now why they let that clown nomura fumble as long on his game I can't tell.

And yeah, the gameplay was a perfect blend between jrpg and modern gamedesign. They threw all the clutter over board and kept it fresh and japanese too.
It felt like this was the first jrpg to really take the step from NES gamedesign to a new level.

 

[Kagari]

The story and scenario was half-finished when they kicked out matsuno.
I really would've liked to see that game in his original vision.
Now why they let that clown nomura fumble as long on his game I can't tell.

And yeah, the gameplay was a perfect blend between jrpg and modern gamedesign. They threw all the clutter over board and kept it fresh and japanese too.
It felt like this was the first jrpg to really take the step from NES gamedesign to a new level.

Nomura is pretty good at living up to his promises, that's why. If you want a recent example, take a look at Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Nomura is pretty good at living up to his promises, that's why. If you want a recent example, take a look at Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep.

Haven't played that as I'm not the biggest kingdom hearts fan and the plots only confused the shit out of me.

 

[Megidolaon]

Yeah, FFXII felt like such a fresh and innovative step forward for FF. XIII felt like a step backward.

I was always baffled by the people who hated XII for being too different from past titles. What did they want, fixed camera and random battles forever? I also liked the understated characters. None of them got on my nerves and there was no forced love story.

Versus XIII sounds cool, even if if it has kinda fallen off my radar cause of the long wait with no info. It wouldn't be so bad if XIII wasn't so disappointing. Square needs a boost on consoles thats for sure. Anyway for Versus:

Controllable camera in scenes Awesome. I love the cinematic quality of Square's cutscenes, but I never liked how they felt "separate" from the gameplay and broke up the pace and took away immersion from the game. Having vastly different models didn't help. Something they've gradually been improving and looks to be fixed completely in Versus.

Voice actors recording together: Though this probably won't affects the English version, it's a step in the right direction to help conversations flow more naturally. I'm glad Square's taking the time to make the dialogue realistic, something which JRPG's get criticized for a lot.

Cell phone camera: I always appreciate little features like this, they add immersion and indicate the faith the dev team has in the scenery. I'm excited for the modernish world, with highways and gas stations.

 

[.JayZii]

It's kind of interesting how Nomura hate has morphed from not liking his art style to claiming he is incompetent. He makes good games on the whole.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

It's kind of interesting how Nomura hate has morphed from not liking his art style to claiming he is incompetent. He makes good games on the whole.

Advent Children wasn't a game but that one sucked big time.

 

[Beth Cyra]

It's kind of interesting how Nomura hate has morphed from not liking his art style to claiming he is incompetent. He makes good games on the whole.

Nomura gets hate no matter if he is involved or not quite often.

I've seen people blame him for XI and XII, as well as why XIII turned out ot be shit (I actually like all three) as well as other stuff inbetween.

So I can't say it's shocking. It's even worse when people call for him to be fired when he maybe the only reason why we at least have Kingdom Hearts projects announced from SE Japan. If it wasn't for him everything right now could be Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I thought Matsuno suffered a mental breakdown or something. It was never really clear though. He's a genius, Vagrant Story might very well be my favourite Ps1 game ever. The same goes for TO on PSP.

Birth By Sleep is indeed very good as well, I think its brilliant even. But I don't remember the plot, it either sucked like KH2 or Third birthday's storyline killed my last few braincells. But good gameplay, best in the series.

 

[Rahxephon91]

It's kind of interesting how Nomura hate has morphed from not liking his art style to claiming he is incompetent. He makes good games on the whole.

Now we are blaming him for plot points in games he didn't write or direct.

 

[StuBurns]

Regardless of the project's development time, or anyone's opinion of most of Nomura's art (which is seemingly not to his own personal taste, or Versus would look like it), as a game director, he is delivering good games, and they are improving. That alone makes him a better fit for this project than anyone else who's fronting SEs games right now. His vision of Final Fantasy seems to be pretty much exactly what I want, and if all I have to do to get it is wait another three years and pay £40, it's asking very little of me.

 

[Zoe]

Voice actors recording together: Though this probably won't affects the English version, it's a step in the right direction to help conversations flow more naturally. I'm glad Square's taking the time to make the dialogue realistic, something which JRPG's get criticized for a lot.

That complaint is typically a cultural one rather than about technique.

 

[Megidolaon]

That complaint is typically a cultural one rather than about technique.

Yeah, I was kinda merging two points together. 1. Voice acting flowing naturally by being recorded together. 2. Nomura said that he wanted to emphasize realistic conversations between the male characters. Both good things. Sorry if i was unclear.

 

[.JayZii]

That complaint is typically a cultural one rather than about technique.

As for America, I thought it was something to do with actor's unions that made people record separately. I think the John from 8-4 was talking about it on a podcast recently. So do voice actors in Japan record together or separately?

 

[StuBurns]

As for America, I thought it was something to do with actor's unions that made people record separately. I think the John from 8-4 was talking about it on a podcast recently. So do voice actors in Japan record together or separately?

I heard him say that, but people do record together in America.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Here's a sample development cycle from Square Enix.


Source: http://www.andriasang.com/j/blog/2010/09/01/new_square_enix_game/

So unless full development and full production are different, they're in pre-production, which would be well after the game is up and running as a playable demo.

Do we know now which title was being referred to at this presentation? It might prove a point of reference for how long SquareEnix spends on flagship games in 'Pre-Production' before release schedules begin to gel.

Assuming of course the game ever came out.

 

[eXistor]

I love how FFXIV has already vanished into the void.

Holy crap, I didn't even notice! I meant FFXV of course, I didn't even think about FFXIV for a second. Man why was that piece of shit even made?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

It felt like this was the first jrpg to really take the step from NES gamedesign to a new level.

This kind of ridiculous nonsense is why I hate JRPG discussions. If you seriously believe every single RPG from Japan released before 2006 was following the same 8-bit design formula, I can only imagine that you've played very few of them. I don't have to dig deep for a counterexample: go play Dragon Quest and then play Chrono Trigger and try to tell me that there is no difference in game design approach between the two.

 

[Zoe]

As for America, I thought it was something to do with actor's unions that made people record separately. I think the John from 8-4 was talking about it on a podcast recently. So do voice actors in Japan record together or separately?

Typically separately.

The main problem though, is the Japanese sentence structure/way of speaking and mannerisms are very different from English. That's why Yuna sounds so odd in FFX.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

This kind of ridiculous nonsense is why I hate JRPG discussions. If you seriously believe every single RPG from Japan released before 2006 was following the same 8-bit design formula, I can only imagine that you've played very few of them. I don't have to dig deep for a counterexample: go play Dragon Quest and then play Chrono Trigger and try to tell me that there is no difference in game design approach between the two.

Hmm... well then let's update it to 16 bit.
FFXIII had a streamlined but convoluted system that was an update of an update of an update of 8 bit gamedesign and no evolution like FFXII was

 

[Yoshichan]

So now people are excited about this? I thought overall census about this game after E3 was "LOOKS TERRIBLE!"?

I've always stood by my word... this game looks, sounds (and probably plays) amazingly.

 

[StuBurns]

So now people are excited about this? I thought overall census about this game after E3 was "LOOKS TERRIBLE!"?

I've always stood by my word... this game looks, sounds (and probably plays) amazingly.

Are you in the right thread? Nothing was at E3. And people loved the last trailer.

 

[KyteTron]

So now people are excited about this? I thought overall census about this game after E3 was "LOOKS TERRIBLE!"?

I've always stood by my word... this game looks, sounds (and probably plays) amazingly.

... Versus didn't exist at E3.

 

[IC_Champion]

Oh you have got to be kidding me. They won't even release screenshots to the public? *sigh*

SE being shady. Once TGS 2011 rolls in, they are going to have the next Versus trailer behind closed doors.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Hmm... well then let's update it to 16 bit.
FFXIII had a streamlined but convoluted system that was an update of an update of an update of 8 bit gamedesign and no evolution like FFXII was

If you were talking about Pokemon I could understand, but I don't buy that for FF XIII. Sure it's a refinement of ATB (as XII was, albeit in a different direction), but its extremely fast pace and focus on macromanagement as opposed to picking individual commands for each character makes it a far cry from how combat worked in FF VI. Just because it's not an evolution in the direction you would like doesn't mean it's not an evolution.

The same goes for the level design actually. I believe that at least part of the rationale behind the corridor design of XIII, a big step away from the world map exploration of 16-bit FFs, was to make the game appeal to a wider mainstream of players, along the lines of linear shooters or action games. The lengthy combat tutorial was also a sign that they were trying to make the game as welcoming as possible for people who might never have played an RPG before. While that choice was a mistake, I cannot say it was Square-Enix being stuck in the past.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Pre-Production <- Versus is most likely here. This is not conception, which some people seem to be getting confused by.
-Four months spent focusing the concept by playing the vertical slice build and getting feedback. Also, creation of the "pipeline" and other areas of the development environment.

Isn't that still terribly early even thought is not the conception stage like people thought?

Regardless of the project's development time, or anyone's opinion of most of Nomura's art (which is seemingly not to his own personal taste, or Versus would look like it), as a game director, he is delivering good games, and they are improving. That alone makes him a better fit for this project than anyone else who's fronting SEs games right now. His vision of Final Fantasy seems to be pretty much exactly what I want, and if all I have to do to get it is wait another three years and pay £40, it's asking very little of me.

*ahem*Kingdom Hearts 2*ahem*

Maybe aren't many more directors who can take the scale of this project in SE right now, and what I saw from Versus looks very good, so I have faith.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Isn't that still terribly early even thought is not the conception stage like people thought?



*ahem*Kingdom Hearts 2*ahem*

Maybe aren't many more directors who can take the scale of this project in SE right now, and what I saw from Versus looks very good, so I have faith.

Kingdom Hearts 2 was a steb back from 1.

That said it was still a good game and we could see him try to bring in new elements even if not all of them worked out for the better.

Then again I'm weird and that I prefered Chain of Memories to both KH1 and 2.

 

[IC_Champion]

Versus could break the record as the game with the most development time since Metal gear Solid 4, Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire or Agent.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

The only Nomura game that I really liked was Kingdom Hearts 2.

As for other games with his character designs, like Crisis Core, Dissidia, or 3rd Birthday, I don't know if he designed those. I know he's listed as the creative producer but I don't think it's the same role he had for the KH games.

It looks like he's spending most of his attention to VSXIII while lending some input to the other games. That's probably why VSXIII is taking longer.

 

[madmaxx350]

Versus could break the record as the game with the most development time since Metal gear Solid 4, Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire or Agent.

oh really? what ever happened to Duke Nukem Forever?

 

[KyteTron]

I thought Blizzard games still hold that title?

 

[Rahxephon91]

Versus could break the record as the game with the most development time since Metal gear Solid 4, Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire or Agent.

When you put it that way it doesn't really sound that bad.

 

[Yoshichan]

Are you in the right thread? Nothing was at E3. And people loved the last trailer.

... Versus didn't exist at E3.

WOW! Thought I was in the Resistance 3 thread...

 

[StuBurns]

*ahem*Kingdom Hearts 2*ahem*

KH2 needed work, but I think the foundations were better than KH1, it just need to be rebalanced, maybe it was because there was lots of feedback that KH1 was too hard from the press. It would have been the better game I'm pretty sure, and BbS was the best of the three for me.

Versus isn't exactly Kingdom Hearts Noir or whatever, but it's certainly cut from that same cloth, given the time and focus to iterate on the design, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's mechanically the best game SE have ever made. I already think it is artistically.

I could be expecting too much of the game though, with so much time the expectations can't help be increase.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

The same goes for the level design actually. I believe that at least part of the rationale behind the corridor design of XIII, a big step away from the world map exploration of 16-bit FFs, was to make the game appeal to a wider mainstream of players, along the lines of linear shooters or action games.

Because everyone hates exploring in rpgs, right?

The lengthy combat tutorial was also a sign that they were trying to make the game as welcoming as possible for people who might never have played an RPG before. While that choice was a mistake, I cannot say it was Square-Enix being stuck in the past.

More like a sign how they overcomplicated things to the point where they had to use lengthy tutorials to explain something that should be rather intuitive.

 

[IC_Champion]

oh really? what ever happened to Duke Nukem Forever?

My bad, I forgot to mention that one.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Because everyone hates exploring in rpgs, right?

You're missing the point; FF XIII was trying to appeal to people who didn't like or play RPGs. In fact I remember hearing a few comments around the time of XIII's release along the lines of "I generally hate RPGs, but XIII looks looks like something I could get into." Obviously Square-Enix misjudged the overall audience reaction, and I am glad they appear to be returning to a more explorable world in XIII-2 and hopefully Versus. I certainly enjoy exploring in RPGs.

More like a sign how they overcomplicated things to the point where they had to use lengthy tutorials to explain something that should be rather intuitive.

Despite how overwhelming it can seem at first glance, the battle system in FF XIII isn't that complicated - it boils down to figuring out the right time to switch between different paradigms. The tutorial was super padded and could easily have been done in a much quicker and more efficient manner. Square-Enix didn't have a high opinion of the intelligence of their audience, unfortunately.

Anyway, the initial complaint was that FF XIII did not change in any significant way from 8- or 16-bit RPGs, and I believe I have shown that it did.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

You're missing the point; FF XIII was trying to appeal to people who didn't like or play RPGs.

Well fission mailed I'd say, because all my friends who liked jrpgs hated it and all my friends who don't care about jrpg thought it's even worse than before.

Despite how overwhelming it can seem at first glance, the battle system in FF XIII isn't that complicated - it boils down to figuring out the right time to switch between different paradigms. The tutorial was super padded and could easily have been done in a much quicker and more efficient manner. Square-Enix didn't have a high opinion of the intelligence of their audience, unfortunately.

Anyway, the initial complaint was that FF XIII did not change in any significant way from 8- or 16-bit RPGs, and I believe I have shown that it did.

Well it's still just a overly convoluted update of the old atb, FFXII as an evolution.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Haven't played that as I'm not the biggest kingdom hearts fan and the plots only confused the shit out of me.

Your loss speaks volumes.

 

[Ahoi-Brause]

Your loss speaks volumes.

But I really don't like the series. :-(

 

[Rahxephon91]

Yeah that "story" in BBS was so awesome with the constant talk about darkness and hate and hearts and shit.

Spoilers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t99aok16ag

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Well fission mailed I'd say, because all my friends who liked jrpgs hated it and all my friends who don't care about jrpg thought it's even worse than before.


Well it's still just a overly convoluted update of the old atb, FFXII as an evolution.

Look, I'm not trying to defend XIII here, even though I really like its battle system, which I don't consider overly complicated. I just think it's incorrect to say that it, or Japanese RPGs in general, are somehow stuck in the 80s or 90s and that's why they're bad. XIII's flaws, which were significant, were not in any way caused by its designers clinging to the past, but by them trying to change too much in the wrong direction.

 

[daffy]

Yeah that "story" in BBS was so awesome with the constant talk about darkness and hate and hearts and shit.

Spoilers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t99aok16ag

Was pretty interesting to me. I didn't like the way BBS asked more questions than gave answers imo.

 

[madmaxx350]

Was pretty interesting to me. I didn't like the way BBS asked more questions than gave answers imo.

if it didn't how else would they make KH3?! I find it funny that you have to buy like 4 different console to play the entire KH series lol

 

[SkylineRKR]

But I really don't like the series. :-(

I don't either but try BBS anyway, its fantastic. Hated KH1's camera and especially combined with the platform gameplay. BBS simply ditched platform gameplay altogether, pretty much anyway.

All 3 characters are fun to play with. And the skill system/combining of materias is neat.

 

[Megidolaon]

I have mixed feelings with the series' story. Kingdom Hearts stories are at their best when they're lighthearted, don't take themselves too seriously, have an innocent optimism to them, and focus on the Disney interactions. Then they're charming. Kingdom Hearts 2 had a nice prologue with Roxas, and a lot of fun memorable Disney worlds like Port Royal and Pride Rock.

They're at their worst when they try to be too melodramatic, deep, or when they go overboard with the angst and ignore the Disney. That's why I didn't like Days. I hated the whole Xion plot and the Disney world sucked. The game took itself too seriously too. I liked Org XIII better when they were just nobodies. And when Sora was just one character...