Support NeoGAF

[Pureauthor]

If I get games the quality of KH: BbS, I couldn't care less where they are. In fact, I prefer on a handheld. Maybe I'm not "people."

Also, lol at saying SE is cheap.

Making a game with PS2 graphics in this gen is being cheap. That is why there are so many handheld games. Its cheaper to make a handheld game than a console game.

It's not 'cheap'. SE is a business. Business want to make money. It is easier to make money on handhelds than consoles this generation. Making handheld games over console games, therefore, is called being smart.

 

[Skilletor]

Making a game with PS2 graphics in this gen is being cheap. That is why there are so many handheld games. Its cheaper to make a handheld game than a console game.

I think you're confusing cheap with profitable.

Why are people acting like a HD Kingdom Hearts would be a bad thing?

I would welcome an HD KH. Why are people acting as if KH: BbS isn't the best entry in the series would be my counter question.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I am curious what aspects of "major" Kingdom Hearts games the naysayers feel Birth By Sleep lacks and KH3DS will lack.

If it's simply "ability to be played on a TV screen," then you can probably just admit it. Not everyone likes handhelds. But it doesn't make those games sidestories just because they're not in HD and you want them to be.

No tag quote for you!

 

[WrenchNinja]

3D will definitely have voicing. The last numbered game (358/2, now that's a lot of numbers!) had voice acting too.

Does it matter? What is this obsession with numbers? Riku and Sora will be in KH: 3DS. Are those the voice actors you speak of?

I was joking. Y'know, like the development time for these games is crazy long, and 2012 is coming...and explaining a joke ruins it. Nevermind.

Also, numbers make the world go round.

 

[Kimosabae]

I don't get. Did the first two games not generate enough sales for the console to become a focus?? How does the KH franchise fit better into the portable model than FF, when the former is just as predicted on its epicness?

Despite my disappointment in the 2nd game, I LOVE this franchise (won't even touch the portable games, though). While I hate to see frequent sequels, the 3rd console game is at least a year overdue.


Hopefully, the reason is because there's something innovative cooking, because the formula must have become stale for a ton of people with all those portable releases.

 

[Shadow780]

Nomura and SE, 2012 is also the 15th anniversary of FFVII *winkwink*

 

[Fuu]

Hopefully, the reason is because there's something innovative cooking, because the formula must have become stale for a ton of people with all those portable releases.

Actually the formula just got even more awesome with the latest release (Birth by Sleep).

 

[7Th]

I am curious what aspects of "major" Kingdom Hearts games the naysayers feel Birth By Sleep lacks...

English voice acting that doesn't make me want to kill myself.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

You'd imagine Disney would be pissed. I don't believe pumping out handheld releases as fast as you can is sustainable in the long term

Disney should have pushed for major releases every 2-3 years and never given up so much control

The first is still the best and I bet thats because it was the one Disney was most involved in. They must be busy too busy these days to care about KH

Any idea what the return has been for KH 1&2 vs. all the handhelds combined? I bet 1&2 still comes out on top even if they costed more to make

 

[badcrumble]

Did I ever tell you guys me theory for the story of KH 3DS?

*spoilers for the rest of the KH series, I guess. Ye be warned.*

Spoiler

Sora is not actually Sora. It's Xion and the game takes place within the recesses of Sora's memory, allowing him/her to visit the various worlds that Sora has been to before. Riku, meanwhile, is not actually Riku either, but a glitch in Namine's memory abilities that created an errant heart being with free will that bonded to the first coherent memory it came across, hence why it looks like Riku. Said aberration starts drawing on the memories of beings that are not Sora due to Namine's power going haywire and thus the worlds he/it can access are all-new in context of the series.

Xion's gameplay section will be spent revisiting the old worlds because all the Darkness Sora has exposed himself to (via fighting Heartless/visiting the Abyss of Kingdom Hearts/etc) is starting to manifest in his mind in unhealthy ways (it's also revealed/retconned to be the new source of Sora's AntiForm, and it's starting to eat away at Sora more and more) such as becoming Heartless and Nobodies in the context of his mind. Xion's job is to stamp out the darkness in Sora's heart - and maybe find a way to manifest herself as a separate being again.

The Memory Fragment (henceforth referred to as Riku for simplicity's sake), meanwhile, is born as a new existence with little knowledge of how he/it got here and thus begins wandering through the various worlds (some new, some old), beating up other memory fragments that also manifested itself in Sora's subconscious and are inherently hostile to him because they look like Nobodies/Heartless and Riku does not and that's just the way it works. This is eventually revealed to be slowly erasing Sora's memory again, and manifests itself from Xion's PoV as the memory-worlds she is traveling through slowly falling apart.

Eventually Xion and Riku meet, and Xion, believing Riku to be a mindless memory fragment, attempts to destroy him. The two clash into a relative standstill, until Roxas shows up.

Yes, Roxas. The 3rd, heretofore unknown playable character shows up and tries to sort things out relatively peacefully, but Riku refuses to listen and runs off into the shadows. Roxas' gameplay section (maybe with Xion as a permanent partner?) is him travelling through the 7 worlds of the seven princesses of Heart (because he's connected to Ven's Heart, which is pure Light, and the rest of the Princesses of Heart are pure Light too so that means they're connected which means Roxas can go through their memory worlds. Somehow.) to hunt down this Riku. Eventually, they run into the Final Boss of the game: Vanitas.

Yes, Vanitas. After being shattered at the end of BbS, Vanitas lingered in Sora's heart alongside Ven and slowly began to draw on the darkness in Sora's heart to rebuild his strength. Because Sora has so little darkness (to start with, anyway), it took him over 10 years to regain his power, but now he's back and he wants to take over Sora's heart completely. Riku shows up, realizes that even if he is aberration, he can still choose to do good (see? This is like, self-affirmation and stuff. It's GOOD STORYTELLING) and fights Vanitas. He weakens Vanitas, but Vanitas succeeds in stabbing him. He dissolves back into memory fragments, but those fragments get absorbed by Xion, since she's ultimately also made of memories. Xion then fights Vanitas, and almost finishes him off, but Vanitas pulls out his trump card - during the battle with Ven, he learned that Light held power also, and he somehow figured out how to draw on it. How this works with a being of pure Darkness is conveniently glossed over. Vanitas fights, defeats and nearly kills Xion but then Roxas absorbs her because she's Sora's memories and he's Sora... kind of, anyway, so he can do that and uses her power to fight Vanitas to a standstill.

Then Ven shows up and randomly hands his power to Roxas because, hey, why not? And then the finishing blow is dealt by Roxas quintuple wielding Keyblades (it sounds stupid but it will be totally awesome and not stupid at all. Honest.). This also fixes all the damage to Sora's memory because HEART POWER dammit.

Vanitas uses the last of his strength to stab Roxas in the heart, which seals Roxas away into Ven's heart. Somehow. And Sora wakes up the next morning with the trippiest dream ever. Meanwhile, inside Sora's heart Ven is trying to send Sora message that he needs to rescue Roxas who is inside his heart so he can rescue Xion who is inside Roxas' heart so he can rescue the Riku Memory Fragment inside her, um, memories. Cue the next KH game.

Yeah.

What the fuck is wrong with you. what the fuck is wrong with this franchise. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Despite my disappointment in the 2nd game, I LOVE this franchise (won't even touch the portable games, though).

Putting a conflicting statement in parentheses does not suddenly make it not a conflicting statement.

 

[Pureauthor]

I don't get. Did the first two games not generate enough sales for the console to become a focus?? How does the KH franchise fit better into the portable model than FF, when the former is just as predicted on its epicness?

Despite my disappointment in the 2nd game, I LOVE this franchise (won't even touch the portable games, though). While I hate to see frequent sequels, the 3rd console game is at least a year overdue.


Hopefully, the reason is because there's something innovative cooking, because the formula must have become stale for a ton of people with all those portable releases.

Given how much they changed (and from all looks, are going to keep changing) the gameplay for each portable release, no, not really.

Also, how can you say you love the franchise if you're not even going to play the best game in the series?

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

I am curious what aspects of "major" Kingdom Hearts games the naysayers feel Birth By Sleep lacks and KH3DS will lack.

If it's simply "ability to be played on a TV screen," then you can probably just admit it. Not everyone likes handhelds. But it doesn't make those games sidestories just because they're not in HD and you want them to be.

I don't think it's shallow to want KH3 to be on a "grander scale" in terms of visual fidelity, physics, animation, sound, etc.

 

[Pureauthor]

You'd imagine Disney is pissed. I don't believe pumping out handheld releases as fast as you can is sustainable in the long term

Disney should have pushed for major releases every 2-3 years

358/2, a medicore, rushed spinoff sold over a million copies.

I don't think Disney is complaining.

I don't think it's shallow to want KH3 to be on a "grander scale" in terms of visual fidelity, physics, animation, sound, etc.

That's pretty much the textbook definition of shallow, though. What you're describing are all the superficial visual enhancements.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't think it's shallow to want KH3 to be on a "grander scale" in terms of visual fidelity, physics, animation, sound, etc.

And sure, you can want that if you want.

But to claim it makes any KH game more legitimate than, say, Birth By Sleep is veering in to manbaby territory.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

I stopped caring for KH3 long time ago... because I know we won't see till like 2014 give or take a little.

They will finish with FFversusXIII in 2012... so give them another almost 3 years for KH3 and there you got a release year.

 

[Skilletor]

The first is still the best and I bet thats because it was the one Disney was most involved in. They must be busy too busy these days to care about KH

Any idea what the return has been for KH 1&2 vs. all the handhelds combined? I bet 1&2 still comes out on top even if they costed more to make

Not really. BbS is ten different kinds of awesome. KH1 is only 7 different kinds.

 

[Kimosabae]

Putting a conflicting statement in parentheses does not suddenly make it not a conflicting statement.

There's nothing conflicting, here. My love for the essence of something does not imply I seek its substance wherever it exists.

I love mangos, too. I guess I should collect every mango on the planet and get down to it, right?

 

[Londa]

I think you're confusing cheap with profitable.



I would welcome an HD KH. Why are people acting as if KH: BbS isn't the best entry in the series would be my counter question.

Begin cheap is trying to make/or save a lot of money without spending a lot of money.

When you have three handheld games back to back to back and no console in site until after 2 years later, that there is cheap, and only worried about making a profit and not a game that equals this gen.

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Not really. BbS is ten different kinds of awesome. KH1 is only 7 different kinds.

A Skilletor who knows nothing can understand nothing

 

[Fuu]

Did I ever tell you guys me theory for the story of KH 3DS?

*spoilers for the rest of the KH series, I guess. Ye be warned.*

Pure, I'm starting to think you're in fact Nomura and all your plot theories are actual game ideas that you write here so you can get feedback.

 

[Pureauthor]

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

That is completely and utterly wrong and lacking in any basis in reality.

Pure, I'm starting to think you're in fact Nomura and all your plot theories are actual game ideas that you write here so you can get feedback.

Yeah, when I pitched Vanitas as really being Sora to you guys I was kinda surprised by the positive reaction so I-

*ahem* I mean, what a ludicrous idea you have!

 

[Aeana]

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

Uhhh... no. You can say that about 179 Days and Chain of Memories, but Birth by Sleep is a brand new story with new characters and new worlds that is just as substantial as KH1 and 2.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

It's pretty fantastic when someone arguing a bad position makes it clear they don't actually know what they're talking about.

 

[GoldandBlue]

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

... are you serious?

 

[badcrumble]

KH PSP just copy and pastes characters from KH 1 and 2. Very little effort for big profit.

I don't think you know anything whatsoever about Birth By Sleep. It's essentially Kingdom Hearts 0 and is just as much of a full game as KH1 or KH2.

There's nothing conflicting, here. My love for the essence of something does not imply I seek its substance wherever it exists.

I love mangos, too. I guess I should collect every mango on the planet and get down to it, right?

possibly the worst metaphor ever

 

[Londa]

It's pretty fantastic when someone arguing a bad position makes it clear they don't actually know what they're talking about.

I didn't say the story was copied and pasted the graphics from the PS2 games are copied and reused. They do add new characters but they reuse a lot of old ones.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

There's nothing conflicting, here. My love for the essence of something does not imply I seek its substance wherever it exists.

I love mangos, too. I guess I should collect every mango on the planet and get down to it, right?

Yes, comparing one game to every mango in the world is not at all something a crazy person would say.

I mean, you could just admit that you don't know anything about BbS, don't want to know anything, and no one would bother to try and move you from your stubbornness. Claiming that you love the series and playing a handheld game is equivalent hoarding all the world's fruit for yourself just makes you look like an idiot.

 

[Kimosabae]

Given how much they changed (and from all looks, are going to keep changing) the gameplay for each portable release, no, not really.

Also, how can you say you love the franchise if you're not even going to play the best game in the series?

To be honest, I haven't been paying attention. I didn't know people considered BBS good, because I don't even pay attention to portable games. Maybe I will check it, but here's a clincher - what's the difficulty like? Part of my love for the franchise came from the first game's level of difficulty. My disappointment with the second game comes from lack of said difficulty. Which is it closer to?

 

[Pureauthor]

To be honest, I haven't been paying attention. I didn't know people considered BBS good, because I don't even pay attention to portable games. Maybe I will check it, but here's a clincher - what's the difficulty like? Part of my love for the franchise came from the first game's level of difficulty. My disappointment with the second game comes from lack of said difficulty. Which is it closer to?

Well, you could take a gander at the main thread and read all the posts from people complaining about how tough it is to beat Boss A and B and C...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I didn't say the story was copied and pasted the graphics from the PS2 games are copied and reused. They do add new characters but they reuse a lot of old ones.

So you'd agree KH2 is a lazy copy and paste of KH1, right?

 

[Skilletor]

I didn't say the story was copied and pasted the graphics from the PS2 games are copied and reused. They do add new characters but they reuse a lot of old ones.

How do you like that Mithra, I mean...what are those things in FF14 called. Galka? No...Tarutaru...no.

 

[Pureauthor]

I didn't say the story was copied and pasted the graphics from the PS2 games are copied and reused. They do add new characters but they reuse a lot of old ones.

... Look, just quit while you're not that far behind.

 

[Londa]

So you'd agree KH2 is a lazy copy and paste of KH1, right?

I said the handhelds (PSP) are copied graphics from the PS2 games. KH2 looks almost the same just a little better and the battle system is more refined.

 

[Skilletor]

I said the handhelds are copied graphics from the PS2 games. KH2 looks almost the same just a little better and the battle system is more refined.

Couldn't I say the same thing about BbS?

 

[Kimosabae]

People just TELLING me my analogy doesn't work, doesn't make any of you look less stubborn. It makes you look asinine. The analogy works and I've shown clear, abstract reasoning for why I think it applies.

Your desires to "prove" I'm "not a fan" of KH because I said I haven't played a portable game is manbaby whimpering and utterly pathetic.

 

[badcrumble]

The blind, irrational hatred some people have for handhelds will never cease to amaze and disappoint me.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I don't get. Did the first two games not generate enough sales for the console to become a focus?? How does the KH franchise fit better into the portable model than FF, when the former is just as predicted on its epicness?

Despite my disappointment in the 2nd game, I LOVE this franchise (won't even touch the portable games, though). While I hate to see frequent sequels, the 3rd console game is at least a year overdue.


Hopefully, the reason is because there's something innovative cooking, because the formula must have become stale for a ton of people with all those portable releases.

It doesn't sound like you really love the franchise.

 

[Kusagari]

People just TELLING me my analogy doesn't work, doesn't make any of you look less stubborn. It makes you look asinine. The analogy works and I've shown clear, abstract reasoning for why I think it applies.

Your desires to "prove" I'm "not a fan" of KH because I said I haven't played a portable game is manbaby whimpering and utterly pathetic.

I'd say it's hard to say you're a fan of the series when you 'refuse to touch' the game that for all intents and purposes IS KH3.

 

[Pureauthor]

People just TELLING me my analogy doesn't work, doesn't make any of you look less stubborn. It makes you look asinine. The analogy works and I've shown clear, abstract reasoning for why I think it applies.

Your desires to "prove" I'm "not a fan" of KH because I said I haven't played a portable game is manbaby whimpering and utterly pathetic.

Fine. You say you like mangoes. But you refuse to eat certain mangoes on the ground that their skin isn't the correct shade of yellow, never mind how they taste. That is what you're doing now.

 

[Kimosabae]

Well, you could take a gander at the main thread and read all the posts from people complaining about how tough it is to beat Boss A and B and C...

Aiight, cool. I actually just stole the DS I bought my mother for Christmas last year from her because it was collecting dust in her garage. I'll probably check it out when I have time.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Darn. I was hoping to play KH3 on HD consoles before the world ends!

 

[Pureauthor]

Aiight, cool. I actually just stole the DS I bought my mother for Christmas last year from her because it was collecting dust in her garage. I'll probably check it out when I have time.

Um, wrong system there bucko. The (current) DS KH game is mediocre at best.

 

[Skilletor]

People just TELLING me my analogy doesn't work, doesn't make any of you look less stubborn. It makes you look asinine. The analogy works and I've shown clear, abstract reasoning for why I think it applies.

Your desires to "prove" I'm "not a fan" of KH because I said I haven't played a portable game is manbaby whimpering and utterly pathetic.

People that like KH and play handheld games have played more of the franchise than people who like KH and don't play handhelds.

Keep fighting the good fight. I'll keep playing KH: BbS and looking forward to KH: 3DS.

It'll suck that we'll probably have to go through a recap in KH3 explaining the plots for all these portable games I've already played, though. You know, like KH2.

 

[Kagari]

Darn. I was hoping to play KH3 on HD consoles before the world ends!

You can, it's called Final Fantasy Versus XIII-- KH without the Disney!

 

[GoldandBlue]

Aiight, cool. I actually just stole the DS I bought my mother for Christmas last year from her because it was collecting dust in her garage. I'll probably check it out when I have time.

Birth By Sleep is for the PSP.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Itt: console gamers refuse to accept their inferiority.

Superior Handheld Master Race united

 

[Aeana]

You can, it's called Final Fantasy Versus XIII-- KH without the Disney!

You don't want to turn people off of the game, do you?

 

[shinki]

The handheld games are like mango chutney. It's made from the same stuff, and it goes down really well in certain situations. But you don't eat mango chutney any old time and sometimes you just want a big fat juicy mango

Spoiler

with HD towns

.

 

[7Th]

If you're not getting a PSP to play BbS, you should still get one to play Ys 7, which is by far the best ARPG released in English in 2010.