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Non-Superhero Comics General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Costanza
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krypt0nian
Banned
This thread cannot continue without:
This is my (old) post from the "Best of the Decade" thread, I'll just repost it here (minus the SH recommendations).
I've gotten into comics within the last year and a half. I've read barely any mainstream superhero stuff. And if it's all like John's Green Lantern, they can all fuck off. That was terrible. List is unranked by the way, aside from number 1...
The Walking Dead
Maybe my favorite comic ever. A brutal, depressing, stark, grim, hopeful, funny, beautiful, fucking rough tale of a (ever changing) group of survivors after zombies take over. The true focus is on the large cast of characters, and not the zombies. Hell, for a large part of the story, the zombies aren't really a threat anymore. It's really about the total and absolute breakdown of society. And the reasons to keep going.
Awesome black and white art perfectly sets the tone, which is depressing, as it should be. Gets my number one.
Life is hard out here, and The Walking Dead captures it perfectly.
Berserk
The manga to look out for. Kentaro Miura's dark fantasy epic is a true (very) long term work of art. 20 years of content, and nowhere near done, Berserk is a truly fucked up book. This book can do it all (under it's overall hopeless, fucked up, depressing, shocking atmosphere), and does it well. It can be funny, do friendship and romance well (well....), and presents interesting notions on God/Devil/Man/Fate.
But it's absolutely heartwrenching. "The Eclipse" was one of the most devastating things I've ever read/seen. I mean...gosh. Absolutely terrible stuff. And then....and then....and then! I could go on all day with "and then's". This aint no joke. Bad things keep happening to Guts (one of the greatest fictional characters of all time, by the way). Blood, guts, murdered children, raped women, raped children, love triangles gone horribly horribly wrong, etc are seen constantly in this book. Consistently even.
The story centers on Guts (far from a hero), a one-armed, one-eyes swordsman seeking to destroy the demons of hell. Born from a corpse on a battlefield, Guts should never have survived, a boy doomed to fight against fate. Thats as barebones as I can go without spoiling one of the greatest stories in all of comics.
There's one huge negative to this series though. It will never, ever, ever be finished. Miura take a month long break anytime he gets a toothache, new videogame, or goes to the Bahamas. It's been going on for 20 years, and it feels (maybe) half way. Barely. Miura will die before he finishes it. It's also veerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyy slow paced in parts, so it's best read in volumes instead of bi-weekly.
Last note, it's positively gorgeous. The art is always, no matter what (well, aside from everything pre-Golden Age arc, which is like the first two volumes) breathtaking. Scary too.
Stunning.
One Piece
Wait! Don't get put off by the (very) kooky (unique) art. This comic is a total blast. Funny, epic, weird, dramatic, sad...everything. Very planned out, evolving, changing.
Now, without a doubt, the focus of this comic is the bond of friendship between the main characters, The Strawhat Pirates, lead by Monkey D. Luffy. One of the best casts ever. The Strawhats are so damn awesome it hurts. The relationships herein are truly powerful, and touching. One Piece can drag a tear out of me all the time. It can get pretty emotional. The Strawhats just plain rock.
Friendship is the name of the day, in One Piece. Incredibly kickass fight scenes too.
Y-The Last Man
A lot has been said about this book. Don't know how much I can add...
I didn't really dig the ending. Don't want to spoil it for others, but I just felt it didn't really match the tone of the story, such a change was jarring and unsatisfying.
Love this book.
Fables
A truly original piece of work. Takes place in a world where all of the fables we know (Big Bad Wolf, Snow White, Prince Charming, Pinnochio, etc) are pushed out of their homelands by The Adversary and are forced to take shelter in ours. Blatantly inspired by Israel (and later on obviously pro-Israel), this comic is a total blast.
First, the cast of characters are top notch. Bigby Wolf is one of the baddest dudes ever, a reformed terror. Snow is a tender, tough scorned woman (after her divorce from Charming). Prince Charming is a sly, devilish pimp. Thats just a taste of the wealth of awesome characters here.
In the tradition of Sandman, the art style changes every so often (with a main one being the most prominent), but it's all good. The series is also notable for it's gorgeous cover work, both TPB's and especially single issue covers.
Scott Pilgrim
YEAHHHHHH!
So. much. fucking. fun.
Scott fucking Pilgrim baby. This is my (very close) number 2 (well, I think lol). It's such a great mix of romance, comedy, action, slice-of-life, videogames, music, movies...it's got everything for everyone. Really great, funny, art. Very manga inspired.
Scott is in love with Romona. To keep her, he has to beat her 7 Evil Ex Boyfriends. Simple as that. Last volume comes out Summer 2010.
Bone
Endlessly funny and charming, suitably dramatic and epic at moments, but always, always loads of fun. Jeff Smith brings a real world to life. Inspired by Tolkien high fantasy (which I usually dislike), Smith taints that world with the wonderful Bone Cousins, of which Fone Bone is the lead. The story, through his eyes, is engaging, funny, and above all, heartfelt. Fone is just so... earnest and endearing that you can't help but love him.
I was, however, disappointed with the ending. Deflating, is the word.
[Ex Machina I don't even consider a Superhero book]
Ex Machina
Am I the first to mention this?
This is another work by BKV (of Y fame), but quite a bit different.
Machina tells the story of Mitchell Hundred, superhero-turned-Mayor of New York. Part political story, part superhero story, and all love letter to New York City. It's a quirky, constant mix of all three. Just about to end, and afterwards (depending on the ending, of course) should stand with Y as Vaughan's top works.
Honorable Mentions
Preacher-Barely in the decade.
Vagabond- Gorgeous and awesome. But, that whole (very long) arc with that blind guy sucked ass. And recently it's been very rambling and philosophical, which has killed the pacing, not to mention it's deathly boring.
Scalped-Too young to call, I think.
Jack Of Fables- Not anywhere near as good as anything else on this list, but still in the Fables universe, and gets good whenever one of the regular Fables characters make a guest spot (which has been rare :/ .
krypt0nian
Banned
Mistouze said:
FACT: Flex Mentallo is the best comic ever made.
Didn't care for The Invisibles at all (first volume), but then I haven't cared for much of Morrison's work outside of All-Star Superman. Much like Final Crisis, it's complete narrative failure probably justified by substructures only LiveFromKyoto has the patience to discern.
To put it in image form:
Persepolis
Persepolis is an autobiographical account of Marjane Satrapi's childhood growing up through the Iranian Cultural Revolution, before being sent to France to avoid the ever-more restrictive nature of her home country. It was turned into a film in 2008.
Maus
Maus (also known as Maus: A Survivor's Tale), by Art Spiegelman, is a biography of his father's struggle to survive the Holocaust. A great comic, with a distinct art style that represents different nationalities and races using different species of animals.
Persepolis
Persepolis is an autobiographical account of Marjane Satrapi's childhood growing up through the Iranian Cultural Revolution, before being sent to France to avoid the ever-more restrictive nature of her home country. It was turned into a film in 2008.
Maus
Maus (also known as Maus: A Survivor's Tale), by Art Spiegelman, is a biography of his father's struggle to survive the Holocaust. A great comic, with a distinct art style that represents different nationalities and races using different species of animals.
.Added both of these to the OP, thanks. I found a cover image for Maus btwgerg said:To put it in image form:
Persepolis
Persepolis is an autobiographical account of Marjane Satrapi's childhood growing up through the Iranian Cultural Revolution, before being sent to France to avoid the ever-more restrictive nature of her home country. It was turned into a film in 2008.
Maus
Maus (also known as Maus: A Survivor's Tale), by Art Spiegelman, is a biography of his father's struggle to survive the Holocaust. A great comic, with a distinct art style that represents different nationalities and races using different species of animals.
Edit: Gah. I'll try to find a good image of Maus.
Invincible? Kirkman's a terrible, absolutely atrocious dialogue writer who writes everyone with the same voice. The relationships in particular are unbearable to read and take up far too much screen time. Then there's the meandering plot structure that's endemic of Kirkman's whole "I want to write Invincible and Walking Dead until I die or no one wants to read them anymore" gameplan.
It has its moments, and one thing Kirkman does know how to do is overarching scenario design, but for every issue #7 we get 20 issues of monster of the week, mommy knows best, and My First Girlfriend.
It has its moments, and one thing Kirkman does know how to do is overarching scenario design, but for every issue #7 we get 20 issues of monster of the week, mommy knows best, and My First Girlfriend.
Costanza said:
We don't. It's a great superhero series for sure. The thing is that it's far from being the only good of it's kind.
As for more recommendation, DMZ is pretty cool too
DMZ by Bryan Wood and Riccardo Burchielli (ongoing, 7 trades so far)
link to #1
Good stuff.
Escape Goat
Member
Costanza said:
Isnt this the thread thats not supposed to get bogged down in Marvel/DC crap?
krypt0nian
Banned
2 more stunners -
This is how you appreciate comics in all its forms without shitting on "lesser" forms.
This is how you appreciate comics in all its forms without shitting on "lesser" forms.
I always see this and was wondering what it was about. Sounds very good.Mistouze said:As for more recommendation, DMZ is pretty cool too
DMZ by Bryan Wood and Riccardo Burchielli (ongoing, 7 trades so far)
link to #1
Good stuff.
*adds to OP*
BigBlue1974
Member
So did anybody besides me read Cerebus? I know the series is over and done but it had a huge impact on me. I didn't even start reading it until 1993 when I got a job at a local comic book store and from that point on I couldn't put it down. It was so far removed from anything else I'd read previous to that. To this day its what I use as my gaming name including my Xbox Live handle of CerebusAardvark.
Biggest gripe is when people go...."oh you mean that three-headed dog right?"
Biggest gripe is when people go...."oh you mean that three-headed dog right?"
Unmentioned:
Warren Ellis
-Global Frequency
-Fell
-Desolation Jones
-Ocean
-Aetheric Mechanics, Crecy, and the other Apparat books
-Freakangels
-Doktor Sleepless
-Gravel: Never a Dull Day (the black and white miniseries collection of Strange Kiss et al, not the separate ongoing Gravel series which sucks)
Garth Ennis
-War Stories
-Battlefields
-Punisher MAX
-Hellblazer (Dangerous Habits through Rake at the Gates of Hell)
Alan Moore
-Swamp Thing
-V for Vendetta
-From Hell
-League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Misc.
-Cerberus (Sim/Gerhard)
Warren Ellis
-Global Frequency
-Fell
-Desolation Jones
-Ocean
-Aetheric Mechanics, Crecy, and the other Apparat books
-Freakangels
-Doktor Sleepless
-Gravel: Never a Dull Day (the black and white miniseries collection of Strange Kiss et al, not the separate ongoing Gravel series which sucks)
Garth Ennis
-War Stories
-Battlefields
-Punisher MAX
-Hellblazer (Dangerous Habits through Rake at the Gates of Hell)
Alan Moore
-Swamp Thing
-V for Vendetta
-From Hell
-League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Misc.
-Cerberus (Sim/Gerhard)
EviLore said:
Meh, I highly enjoy Mark's relationship stuff. <3 Amber/Eve.
The meandering plot structure, especially in issues 14-24, was more world building using standalone issues. At the time it must've been harder to read, but I enjoy it in hardcover form.
I guess the rest comes down to personal preference.
So "non-superhero" means nothing with <type>Wo/Man in the title? Because if Invisibles, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, and Fables qualify then I'd nominate Powers, Checkmate (when Rucka was writing it), Planet Hulk (it's Conan remade), Bendis/Brubaker Daredevil, Astro City, Sleeper, Brubaker's Captain America, and Annihilation.
And Busiek's Conan. Maybe Wolfman's Tomb of Dracula. Howard the Duck?
Evilore: did you read the first trade or first volume of Invisibles?
And Busiek's Conan. Maybe Wolfman's Tomb of Dracula. Howard the Duck?
Evilore: did you read the first trade or first volume of Invisibles?
Dead said:
Yes it is :lol
I got a tshirt like this printed and gave it to this snob who runs a certain comic shop in the san francisco area. It was a great snipe at him because he didnt get the joke and everyone who knows me knows exactly why I gave him the shirt.'
I really wish Chew was pushed harder. Image has something amazing on its hands, but they do absolutely nothing with it. The characters are smart, funny and charming and the artwork is beautiful.
My favorite one is Promethea by Alon Moore.It does have a 'super-hero' theme but it is so so different.All the philosophical themes and such,every single page's art style is unique and fits with what they are talking about at that moment.It is just mind blowing.Also just like watchmen where you get bits of 'the black freighter' as you go on promethea has The weeping gorilla, a sort of social commentary which is brilliant.Even if you read it 100 times you just wanna flip through the pages another 100 times to adore the visual masterpiece that is promethea.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
BigBlue1974 said:
Sim pretty much closed the book on narrative cartooning when he finished Cerebus. No one writing and drawing comics has ever come close to his mastery over the form. Not only was the panel to panel storytelling in the book world class, but he constantly experimented with new methods of storytelling. It's unfortunate that his own bizarre sociopolitical leanings began to infect portions of the storyline near the end, but even in the direst fits of his Feminist Void tangents, he could still pull off just spectacular sequences in the book. He also happens to be the best integrated on-page letterer since Will Eisner. (All of these things are why Glamourpuss is such a disappointment. Dave Sim?!? Computer Lettering?!?! GTFO.)
Oh, and it's almost like this Punisher #13 review I wrote was explicitly for Costanza and this thread.
:lol
The requests for Flex and Umbrella Academy are precisely why this sort of stratification is so ludicrous. Jason Aaron's Ghost Rider is a less legitimate American Ghost story than Preacher because it features a "Superhero"? Fraction's "Iron Man" isn't as legitimate a global intrigue comic as Queen and Country because Tony Stark is an Avenger?
Such a ridiculous sentiment. There are less than 400,000 people in the entire United States who regularly read and support the comics industry every month. To claim that an entire genre is illegitimate because there are aspects of it that cater to the lowest common denominator is the grossest kind of logical fallacy. Is Raymond Chandler a shitty prose writer because he wrote about detectives? Of course not.
There are plenty of threads that recommend Graphic Novels, and there's always conversations about non-superhero books, because every week, more and more awesome ones are released (see: Scalped #35). It doesn't surprise me, though, that Costanza felt the need to further run down a genre that not only is capable of just as literary heights as any Maus or Persepolis but also without which none of the books listed in the OP would have ever existed.
(Also, The Other Side should be in the OP.)
MisterNugNug
Member
May I recommend Blankets by Craig Thompson.
Its an autobiographical account of Thompson's upbringing (his parents were Christian) in the Midwest. He goes to a bible camp one summer and meets this young woman he falls in love with. Really bittersweet and drawn incredibly by Thompson. Great stuff.
By the way my avatar is a drawing of me by Thompson, I met him during a book signing a few years ago. Really nice guy.
Its an autobiographical account of Thompson's upbringing (his parents were Christian) in the Midwest. He goes to a bible camp one summer and meets this young woman he falls in love with. Really bittersweet and drawn incredibly by Thompson. Great stuff.
By the way my avatar is a drawing of me by Thompson, I met him during a book signing a few years ago. Really nice guy.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
EviLore said:
You know it. But there are pretty extensive annotations for it on the web. Even if most of the references are things you've never heard of, it's the kind of work that can lead you to a lot of interesting new ideas. For my money I think Doom Patrol is his meisterwerk though. That's where Flex Mentallo originated.
A couple more recommendations:
Safe Area Gorazde
If I were ever to recommend one graphic novel as a Must Read to anyone, this might be it. Safe Area Gorazde is one of the most amazing and affecting uses of the graphic novel medium you'll ever come across. Joe Sacco is a journalist who, instead of writing news articles, writes graphic novels. He was in Gorazde during the Bosnian war, a defenceless enclave completely surrounded on all sides by genocidal Serbs for four years.
I found it even more moving than Maus; the experiences of the people in this town were beyond comprehension, but Sacco absolutely makes you feel like you've been there, and he mixes in plenty of humanity, joy and epic scope with the examination of the darkest things humanity is capable of. The introduction is also possibly the least douchey thing Christopher Hitchens has ever written; he was a journalist in Sarajevo at the time, and he basically corroborates that Sacco absolutely nailed the experience of being there.
Asterios Polyp
David Mazzuchelli is probably best known as Frank Miller's collaborator on Batman Year One and Daredevil: Born Again, but after those he went off and became a college professor and a cartoonist for the New Yorker. Asterios Polyp is regarded as his masterpiece, a kind of touching story about a dickhead architecture professor that doubles as a meditation on artistic form and the nature of dualism. This is about as high art as graphic novels get.
The Nightly News
A Fight Club-esque story about an anarchist cult devoted to killing news anchors. Jonathan Hickman is one of the most interesting creators to come along in the past few years. His style is heavily postmodern, using mixed media and Wikipedia-age aesthetics teling stories about the nature of how authority structures use binary paradigms to define our reality.
Pax Romana
Also by Hickman, it deals with similar subtexts as The Nightly News. The Catholic Church has secretly been funding scientific research, and discovers time travel. They use it to send a group of soldiers led by a Catholic cardinal back to the time of Constantine, to ensure the lasting supremacy of the Roman empire and prevent the rise of Islam. It doesn't quite get all the way to where it's going, but the style and concept are worth the price of admission alone.
Fun Home
This was Time's book of the year, and it's pretty heavy stuff. It's an autobiography of a woman which begins with the death and possible suicide of her father, which leads into reminiscing and coming to terms with her upbringing in an emotionally cold home. It's a reminiscence which gains an explosive weight when she discovers her father was in the closet and was a high school English teacher who was probably carrying on affairs with young boys. It's an excellent use of the medium; she visually captures the emotion of her relationship with her father using physical posture and expressions, as well as intertextual juxtaposition in a way that you just couldn't pull off with the written word alone. It's really about trying to rationalize and come to terms with something that's impossible to.
Jimmy Corrigan The Smartest Kid on Earth
What if Charlie Brown grew up and his life was even more horrible and depressing? That's kind of what Jimmy Corrigan is. Canonized as one of the best graphic novels ever, Chris Ware's story holds nothing back emotionally and is formally one of the most interesting things I've ever read. But I won't lie - I found it absolutely soul-crushing. Like, my head wasn't right for a week after I read it. It's captures the small sadnesses of everyday life and the differences between who were are in our heads and who were are in reality a little too well. Tarantino or Bendis dialogue, often hailed as naturalistic, seems like a big phony show after this.
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