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North Korea just shelled them some South Korea

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Rez said:
did he resign or did he 'resign'
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Well, judging from the timing, it was likely internal SK government politics that did him in.

Kim Tae-young has been under a lot of opposition party fire lately, and I suspect his hands were tied--they can't go to war with North Korea, as none of their allies really wants to, and North Korea knows this and is going to continue posturing.

Remember, the goal of NK's attacks (and, really, any military posturing anywhere in the world) is to demonstrate willingness to use force to attain their goals. Usually resource-based, and in this case, it's sea borders. This is all for future debates over a negotiating table.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/25/koreas.crisis/index.html?hpt=T1

t1largministerafpgi.jpg

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- South Korean Defense Minister Kim Tae-young resigned Thursday, according to the South Korean presidency, two days after North Korea shelling left four South Koreans dead.

"The president has just accepted the defense minister's resignation," according to a spokesman for the Presidential Blue House.

Kim, a former general, came under heavy criticism after the March sinking of the South Korean war ship Cheonan and again after North Korea struck the South's Yeonpyeong Island on Tuesday.

North Korea has been blamed by the South and other nations for the Cheonan incident, in which 46 sailors were killed, but has denied responsibility. North Korea has blamed South Korea and the United States for the Yeonpyeong incident, in which two South Korean marines and two civilians were killed and 15 others injured.

South Korean lawmakers from both parties alleged that South Korean forces were unprepared for the North Korean attacks, and some have insisted that South Korean aircraft should have responded to the Yeonpyeong incident immediately. Lawmakers demanded Kim's resignation earlier Thursday.

Kim actually submitted his resignation May 1, after the Cheonan incident, said the Blue House spokesman, but it was not accepted until Thursday because of the Cheonan aftermath and other military-related issues. The Cheonan sinking sparked a public uproar, with many stating that it should not have been possible for North Korea to have damaged South Korea's military, which is much more high-tech.

President Lee also drew criticism for his first statements after the Yeonpyeong artillery bombardment, in which he asked for a stern response but added that de-escalatory measures also had to be taken. Later that same day, Lee spoke to the military and urged heavy retaliation.

It was unclear who advised Lee on his first message, but on Wednesday, speaking to a lawmakers' committee, Kim said the president's first instruction was to stop the fire from spreading.

A new minister is expected to be appointed soon.

State-run North Korean broadcaster KCTV reported Thursday that South Korea had stated its plan to "fire towards our territorial waters with their Yeonpyeong-based artillery on November 22." The North said it asked "the puppet South" not to do so, but it persisted, and the North fired back in self-defense.

"If the U.S. truly wishes to ease the tension in the Chosun [Korean] peninsula, rather than protecting the puppet South, they should control the South, so the South will not hang on to maintaining the NLL [Northern Limit Line] by invading territorial waters and firing artilleries," KCTV said. "This incident shows that the acutal offender of the armistice is the puppet South and it is the U.S. which created tension in the Chosun west sea."

Earlier Thursday, state media said North Korea will launch additional attacks on South Korea if the South continues "reckless military provocation."

Pyongyang "will deal without hesitation the second and third strong physical retaliatory blow" if provoked, its KCNA news agency said.

As an example of provocation, it indirectly referred to a military drill that South Korea and the United States plan to hold in the Yellow Sea starting Sunday.

Meanwhile, South Korea said Thursday that it will strengthen and supplement its rules of engagement in the Yellow Sea, following the incident on Yeonpyeong Island.

South Korea was holding annual military exercises near North Korea when Pyongyang started shelling Tuesday. Shells from the South's exercises landed in North Korean waters, KCNA said.

KCNA on Thursday continued its verbal offensive against the South Korean-U.S. military drill.

"The U.S. and the South Korean puppet forces are foolishly contemplating an additional provocation aimed to orchestrate another farce and charade such as the 'Cheonan' case while kicking up rows and holding confabs one after another such as the declaration of a 'state of emergency' and 'a meeting of ministers in charge of security,' far from drawing due lesson from the recent shelling," KCNA said.

The aircraft carrier USS George Washington on Wednesday sailed toward the Yellow Sea for the drill, which was billed as defensive.

"It is a long-planned exercise," said Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"That said, it is meant to send a very strong signal of deterrence and also work with our very close allies in South Korea," Mullen said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

"We're very focused on restraint -- not letting this thing get out of control. The South Koreans so far have responded that way. Nobody wants this thing to turn into a conflict."

On Thursday morning, Lee and his economic and security ministers met in Seoul.

The meeting began with a moment of silence for the Yeonpyeong victims. After the meeting, South Korea said it would boost its rules of engagement in the Yellow Sea.

South Korean marine forces based in five islands near North Korea and the disputed Northern Limit Line also will be reinforced, a government spokesman said.

The tense maritime border between the two Koreas has become the major military flash point on the Korean peninsula in recent years.

The Yeonpyeong attack also will lead to a plan for civilian safety on the five islands in the Yellow Sea, the government spokesman said. No details were immediately offered about the plan, but Lee on Wednesday ordered the strengthening of civilian shelters on the islands.

The islands include Yeonpyeong and Baengnyeong, off which the South Korean warship Cheonan was sunk in March, killing 46 sailors. Seoul blamed Pyongyang for the torpedo attack, which the North has denied.

The Lee administration also will continue to closely monitor capital markets and foreign exchange rates, prepared to take preventative measures as needed, the spokesman said. The Yeonpyeong shelling sent ripples through South Korea's stock market, which has rebounded.

South Korea's economic and security ministries will cooperate closely, and the administration will publicize developments in real time to address major concerns and squelch rumors, the spokesman said.

The Yeonpyeong attack was the first direct artillery assault on South Korea since the Korean War ended in 1953.
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the odds of this ending badly continue to increase.
 
Chinese premier urges restraint after N. Korea shelling

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/25/north.korea.china/index.html?hpt=T1

storywenafpgi.jpg

Beijing, China (CNN) -- China on Thursday stood resolutely moderate following North Korea's shelling of a South Korean island, despite international pressure for Beijing to try to sway Pyongyang.

North Korea shelled the South's Yeonpyeong Island on Tuesday, killing two South Korean marines and two civilians, and injuring 15 others.

Comments by Premier Wen Jiabao, the most senior Chinese official yet to address the issue, appeared in state media Thursday.

China is committed to peace and stability on the Korean peninsula and opposes military provocation in any form, Wen said, according to China Daily.

He also called for restraint and said the international community should make more efforts to ease tensions.

Restarting six-nation talks to denuclearize North Korea is essential to securing stability and denuclearization on the peninsula, Wen said, according to the report.

Also on Thursday, China's foreign minister postponed a trip to South Korea.

Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi was to arrive in Seoul on Friday, to meet South Korean Foreign Minister Kim Sung-hwan. There was a scheduling conflict, said Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Hong Lei.

Beijing's approach appeared unlikely to satisfy outcry for China to help rein in North Korea.

China is the North's largest trading partner, sustaining it with food, fuel and weapons. That has helped Pyongyang withstand crushing international sanctions aimed at denuclearizing the North. North Koreans have gone hungry and impoverished as Pyongyang has poured money into its military and nuclear programs.

On Thursday, the administration of South Korean President Lee Myung-bak said it would continue to work toward China playing a constructive role.

The United States planned to do likewise, senior officials of the Obama administration said Wednesday.

President Barack Obama planned to call Chinese President Hu Jintao in the next few days to discuss the situation.

Top U.S. officials have declared that China is key to communicating with the secretive North Korean regime.

"It's really important that Beijing lead here," said Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"I've believed for some time that probably the country that can influence North Korea the most is -- is clearly China," Mullen said in an interview for this weekend's edition of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

Mullen also alluded to China's desire for stability in the region, as well as its economic ties to North Korea.

"China has as much to lose as anybody in that region with the continuation of this kind of behavior and what the potential might be," he said.

The United States had "multiple conversations" with Chinese officials in Beijing and in Washington in the 24 hours after the shelling on Tuesday, administration officials said.

South Korea was holding annual military exercises near North Korea when Pyongyang started shelling Tuesday. Shells from the South's exercises had landed in North Korea's waters, a premeditated act of provocation, its state media said. The South had ignored the North's demands to cancel the annual drill, which involved about 70,000 South Korean forces near North Korea.

China was concerned about the exercises, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong said Thursday.

"We oppose any act that undermines the peace and stability on the [Korean] peninsula," he said.

"China strongly calls on the [North and South Korea] to keep calm and exercise restraint, have dialogue and contact as soon as possible, to avoid re-occurrence of similar incidents."
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Ogrekiller said:
One day NK is gonna "accidentally" shell China... let's see if they show restraint then.
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that afternoon, south korean guards are going to be perplexed at all the chinese flags going up accross the dmz.
 
iamaustrian said:
600 scuds aiming at SK?
200 Rodongs aiming at Japan?

no wonder SK and the U.S. don't do shit
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The bigger threat is from artillery - not ballistic missiles. NK doesn't have sophisticated launch capabilities and most of their capacity is not sufficiently hardend that it couldn't be taken out by cruise missiles from Subs and Cruisers. Certainly they can get them off, but it wouldn't be the one sided ass-rape that those numbers suggest.

Japan and SK have enough ABM and Aegis missile cruiser capacity in the region that most attacks will be largely unsuccessful. There are over 10k artillery pieces in North Korea and they can inflict significant - sustained damage. Chemical weapons can be delivered VERY effectively by artillery and Seoul is in range of a fair number of the Korean pieces.
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Nobody wanted a wrold war to happen in 1914 and 1939. Not even Germany. They hoped that the other side would blink.
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Hitler very definitely wanted a war, and even set the date for it's beginning years in advance. He was a very canny politician, and realized that threats and intimidation would only get him so far, that eventually armed conflict was inevitable. He may not have desired a world war, but he was completely willing to risk it to achieve his territorial aims.

And WW1 wasn't as innocent and accidental as many like to pretend it was. Though the outbreak may have been triggered by the web of alliances and the assassination, the underlying cause was a breakdown in the balance of power in Europe. Realists in France and Germany both realized that a war was inevitable, it was just a matter of when. Many even wanted it, to clean up 'once and for all' what they saw as unresolved issues from the Franco Prussian war.
 
Bregor said:
Hitler very definitely wanted a war, and even set the date for it's beginning years in advance. He was a very canny politician, and realized that threats and intimidation would only get him so far, that eventually armed conflict was inevitable. He may not have desired a world war, but he was completely willing to risk it to achieve his territorial aims.

And WW1 wasn't as innocent and accidental as many like to pretend it was. Though the outbreak may have been triggered by the web of alliances and the assassination, the underlying cause was a breakdown in the balance of power in Europe. Realists in France and Germany both realized that a war was inevitable, it was just a matter of when. Many even wanted it, to clean up 'once and for all' what they saw as unresolved issues from the Franco Prussian war.
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myavatar.gif
 
Duki said:
are those 600 scuds as pro at aiming as the ballistic missiles nk was testing earlier this year
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no, that was a successor of the rodong

The 600 scuds are Hwasong 6 missiles which are based on soviet SCUD technology(though greatly improved).
Their accuracy is actualy pretty good.
Range: 700km
Accuracy: 50m
Length 12 m
Diameter 0,88 m
Payload: 800kg
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Hwasongt-6.jpg

1160903583.jpg



that's a Rodong for comparison btw. pretty scary shit:
no-dong-missile.JPG
 
Bregor said:
. Many even wanted it, to clean up 'once and for all' what they saw as unresolved issues from the Franco Prussian war.
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As far back as I've gone it seems that each war had its roots in the previous war/conflict with people that wanted to "clean things up" or "make things right".
 
Phoenix said:
As far back as I've gone it seems that each war had its roots in the previous war/conflict with people that wanted to "clean things up" or "make things right".
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Not always, though that often is the case. It makes the times when there is no urge for revenge all that more interesting. What was different in these cases that led to a lasting peace?
 
Phoenix said:
As far back as I've gone it seems that each war had its roots in the previous war/conflict with people that wanted to "clean things up" or "make things right".
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Not really. I am 90% sure that most of the mongol invasions were motivated by glory, conquest and greed.
 
ConfusingJazz said:
Not really. I am 90% sure that most of the mongol invasions were motivated by glory, conquest and greed.
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I heard that Rome invaded the British Isles as revenge for the US Civil War.
 
ConfusingJazz said:
Not really. I am 90% sure that most of the mongol invasions were motivated by glory, conquest and greed.
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I heard the main reason for them was that it was the only was the only way to keep the tribes unified and from fighting among themselves - so they just kept conquering without much greater goal.
 
ConfusingJazz said:
Not really. I am 90% sure that most of the mongol invasions were motivated by glory, conquest and greed.
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Perhaps, but Genghis himself started off trying to get even for the death/poisoning of his father :)
 
N. Korea: Peninsula being pushed to 'brink of war'

YEONPYEONG ISLAND, South Korea — North Korea said Friday that planned U.S.-South Korean military drills are pushing the peninsula to the "brink of war" as a U.S. military commander headed to an island devastated by North Korean artillery to show solidarity with ally Seoul.

North Korea's state news agency said drills this weekend involving South Korean forces and a U.S. nuclear powered supercarrier in waters south of a skirmish Tuesday between the rival Koreas are a reckless plan by "trigger-happy elements" and that the maneuvers target the North.

"The situation on the Korean peninsula is inching closer to the brink of war," the dispatch from the Korean Central News Agency said.

The comments came ahead of a planned visit Friday by Gen. Walter Sharp, the U.S. military commander in South Korea, to the island targeted by the North Korean attack.

Four South Koreans -- two marines and two civilians -- were killed in the hour-long skirmish Tuesday when North Korea unleashed a hail of artillery on the Yeonpyeong, but the island was quiet Friday morning, with most residents having evacuated to the mainland.
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More here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40375643/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

Also, SK has ordered more troops to the front lines.
 
possible false alarm, this came seconds ago:

RT @W7VOA: ROK military denies any incoming shelling on Yeonpyeong.

RT @W7VOA: The artillery firing appears to be taking place inside North Korea -- about 10km north of Yeonpyeong.


edit, further:

RT @W7VOA: Two blasts were heard around 1530KST. Again, I've spoken with a reporter on the island and Yeonpyeong is NOT under renewed attack.
 
# Two blasts were heard around 1530KST. Again, I've spoken with a reporter on the island and Yeonpyeong is NOT under renewed attack. less than 10 seconds ago via TweetDeck
 
RT @W7VOA: YTN reporter on Yeonpyeong: Flash of light spotted from the north. #Koreas

RT @W7VOA: ROK military sources: N. Korean military has fired 20 shells apparently in training drill. #Koreas
 
Given the SK government is already tearing itself apart from within over the last incident, this will only increase pressure to retaliate next time. For the first time in recent years, I can really see this ending in disastrous direct conflict in the relative short term future :/

Poor Seoul.
 
Isn't this one of those ticking time bomb situations? Due to the unstable nature of North Korea, its inevitable going to kick off at some point ... won't waiting longer just allow them to buy more weapons/devise a delivery method for their nukes?
 
"To me, war is a lot of prick-waving! OK? Simple thing. That's all it is. War is a whole lot of men standing out on a field, waving their pricks at one another. Men are insecure about the size of their dicks, and so they have to kill one another over the idea. That's what all that asshole jock bullshit is all about. That's what all that adolescent, macho male posturing, and strutting in bars and locker rooms is all about. It's called "dick fear!" Men are terrified that their pricks are inadequate and so they have to compete with one another, to feel better about themselves, and since war is the ultimate competition, basically, men are killing each other in order to improve their self-esteem! You don't have to be a historian or a political scientist to see the bigger-dick foreign policy theory at work. It sounds like this: "What, they have bigger dicks? Bomb them!" And of course, the bombs and the rockets and the bullets are all shaped like dicks. It's a subconscious need to project the penis into other people's affairs. It's called "****ing with people!"

-George Carlin


The US needs to back the fuck up now. How are these military demonstrations/drills/exercises doing anything but increasing tensions??
 
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