From what I understand you can actually post a page in the Windows Store to download your app from the developers website. By passing the the Windows store all together. Basically an ad.
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Notch's response to Microsoft: FIGHT THE POWA
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
It's a totally separate tablet OS. It's way past time this paranoid vision of the future stopped being your only real talking point. It's the most ludicrous FUD in the thread and that's saying something.
BradleyLove
Member
Agreed. Windows RT is for PCs as much as iOS is for Macs.
OSX doesn't let you run iOS apps. Windows 8 and Windows RT will run the same apps. I'd really like things like a dedicated netflix app on my PC rather than going to the website.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Correction:
Windows 8 will run Windows 8 and Windows RT apps.
Windows RT will run only Windows RT apps, i.e. Metro apps.
If you have an RT only tablet, you will not be using any non-Metro-fied App Store apps.
RT is basically MS' equivalent to iOS and Android while 8 is their hybrid of being able to run any Windows app with the added ability to also run tablet apps.
Jesus fucking christ. Can you buy apple apps over amazon or on random websites? NO YOU CAN'T. YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE APP STORE. Same fucking shit.
Want your app on Metro? You have to sell it through the Windows Store. Don't want your app on Metro? Put it on your website. It's that easy guys. Not that fucking hard to understand.
Why on earth should MS design it's proprietary interface and then let everybody do whatever the fuck they want? They made metro. They can do whatever they want with it. It's like coming to my house and then bitching because I have rules you must follow. You are free to leave.
Just like you are free to leave your app non-metroed. No one is forcing you to. Make your game/software/whatever, put it on the desktop, move the fuck on. You don't have to "app" it. Leave it as an exe on the desktop.
I'm tired of this hyperbolic fud nonsense going on.
I get the angst. I mean, why start charging extra fees with metro when they've never done that for windows in general?
And if the main reason is for the benefits of having a global store front... why not give people the ability to publish outside of the global store front as long as they meet standard operation guidelines?
The only benefit for the consumer - and it's a tenuous one to be honest, is that all apps are collated on the metro app store. Otherwise, it's both anti-developer (not in providing the store, but making it the only way to get a metro app out there) and anti-consumer (when devs choose to pass on costs to consumers).
alexandros
Banned
True, Wardell's issues are largely about the interface and you are 100% right about that. Everyone else is worried that Microsoft might decide to lock down subsequent versions of Windows if Metro proves a big enough hit. Dismissing these worries as paranoia is not going to make the issue go away, at least until Microsoft details its plans for the future. The have a clear choice, they can bury their head in the sand and cry about FUD and paranoia, or they can try to understand the problem and maybe try to fix it.
Please take a minute to read the following article, I feel it's a pretty balanced view on the subject:
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/windows-8-gaming-why-its-not-all-doom-and-gloom-1098462
Some quotes directly from the article, mentioning the issue specifically:
As I've said before, there are two ways to go about this: One is to scream about FUD and paranoia and complain about how clueless and uninformed people are badmouthing your OS unfairly, the other is to recognize that this is a legitimate concern, try to understand the other side's point of view and see what you can do to appease the people who worry about it.
dragonelite
Member
Its easy don't make a Metro apps then. Metro is mostly a design thing so design the ui like metro and make it in C# WinForms,MFC,Win32,QT,Java(Frames??Forgot whats it called)and many more. But yeah reinventing the wheel and doesn't the store cut decrease after $25k to like 20% or so.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Those people who build bunkers in their backyards and have stockpiles of weapons and food for a possible global apocalypse have legitimate concerns too. I mean, there MIGHT be a global catastrophe and the world might descend into anarchy. It doesn't mean I have to take those people seriously.
The addition of an app store does not in any way signal to me that MS is going to abandon 26 years development and millions of software applications and make Windows a closed system. It doesn't make any sense.
alexandros
Banned
No doubt. Let's consider, then, the comparison that you are attempting here. On one hand we have the people who are building bunkers, basically a few nobodies with no credibility whatsoever, and on the other hand we have prominent industry figures with tens of years of development experience and a rich history in PC gaming. And you consider these two cases to be similar, how?
Valve saying that Windows 8 is a catastrophe is not tantamount to a couple of crazies building bunkers. A better analogy would be the US of A commencing the construction of a second Noah's Ark.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
And what reasons did Gabe give for it being a catastrophe? What is his actual concern about the OS?
Twilight Princess
Member
I hope ms kills all major gaming competitors with 8, it will be glorious.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Except nothing in that quote is talking about WHY it will be a catastrophe for everyone involved. Certainly not all the things that alexandros is claiming everyone is uniformly concerned about.
Wait, what? For schadenfreude, or because you hate competition and love Microsoft?
Tesseract
Banned
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
You can take my Steam when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
alexandros
Banned
@Twilight Princess I'm sure Microsoft would love it if all consumers were as forward-thinking as you.
If someone is truly interested in finding out why Gabe Newell considers Windows 8 a bad thing, all he has to do is search for it. Of course some people are not really interested in that, they're more interested in discrediting the opinion any way they can. Gabe Newell first touched on the subject of closed platforms back in 2011, at that point setting his sights mainly on Apple:
The relevant quotes:
So, as Agent Mulder would say, the truth is out there, but you have to want to find it.
If someone is truly interested in finding out why Gabe Newell considers Windows 8 a bad thing, all he has to do is search for it. Of course some people are not really interested in that, they're more interested in discrediting the opinion any way they can. Gabe Newell first touched on the subject of closed platforms back in 2011, at that point setting his sights mainly on Apple:
The relevant quotes:
So, as Agent Mulder would say, the truth is out there, but you have to want to find it.
And we are done, lol.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
An article from a year ago that has nothing to do with Windows 8. You quoted Gabe in this thread as saying "I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space." Then you link to a different article where he talks about open platforms. You're the one making the connection between the two different articles. Just like Agent Mulder you're dealing in conspiracies.
So why exactly is Win8 being singled out? My problem is the fact that people seem to be screaming doom and gloom when MS does it, but seem not to give a shit when Apple does it. It's the exact same thing.
And also, you really think MS will try to eliminate "free" programs and software on its machine? That's stupid. That is one of their biggest advantage. Gabe and all these others are doing all this bitching because they fear competition.
"lol gonna publish this on app store and buy a few apps. cool"
"OMG WHAT MS HAS WINDOWS STORE NOW!!??? THOSE EVIL BASTARDS!!!"
Uhh...because they are a business and they want to make money? Because they are trying to develop their own software distribution store like apple and steam? Why should I innovate on something and then not charge money for it? Why should Apple let people develop for the app store...then sell somewhere else? Why should Steam let you develop for their store...and then have you pay someone else?
If developers see it as a threat, then developers should NOT design for the store. It will be short on content and it will fail. The desktop is still available on the PC front for business to continue as usual. They didn't take anything away.
This is a tiny problem at best and it's being blown waaaay out of proportion because people love to hate. It's fucking stupid.
alexandros
Banned
Let's go back to the original article, the one that first mentioned the "Windows 8 catastrophe" stuff. I hope you won't consider that too "nothing to do with Windows 8":
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/
Seriously, if you still can't make the connection, I can't help you any more.
It isn't. As you saw from the link that I posted earlier, Newell takes issue with all closed platforms including iOS and Xbox Live. Windows is naturally a bigger concern for him because the PC is an open platform and that's where most of his business lies.
Uh huh. Ignoring the whole post and conveniently latching on to a single phrase. Lol indeed.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
He also said, in an interview, that he hopes he is wrong, because Valve can make more money if he is.
It's not a moral issue like Alex is making it out to be. It's purely a business decision.
... Agent Fox Mulder isn't fucking real.
Yeah because I edited the part out which does not belong to the comment made me ignore it, how would you know?
damn, I did it again!
alexandros
Banned
Whatever man. I take the time to answer every question and you act like a child. Whatever.
Of course it is. I am quoting his opinion so that we can call him out on it if he does something different in the future. Nobody gets a free ride.
Of course it is. I am quoting his opinion so that we can call him out on it if he does something different in the future. Nobody gets a free ride.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You don't answer every question. You spout out your own assumptions and theories and you act like those are facts.
Aww come on, We poked fun at each other before. I like your posts, they are all very well written (not like mine, since my english is very bad) and your viewpoint is very clear. I don't agree on it at all, but that does not mean I do not read everything. The Mulder stuff made me laugh so I picked it out.
alexandros
Banned
@DerFeef My apologies then, I obviously misunderstood your tone and the humour was totally lost on me. Again, I'm sorry.
I am stating my own opinion and referencing other people's opinions on the same matter. This is a discussion board.
They have every right to be worried, as well as a couple of valid reasons. The recent EULA thing, the referencing of games as "subscriptions" plus the sheer size of Valve's market share are all valid causes for concern. Their business practices so far have been mostly great but there's no guarantee that it will be that way forever.
I am stating my own opinion and referencing other people's opinions on the same matter. This is a discussion board.
They have every right to be worried, as well as a couple of valid reasons. The recent EULA thing, the referencing of games as "subscriptions" plus the sheer size of Valve's market share are all valid causes for concern. Their business practices so far have been mostly great but there's no guarantee that it will be that way forever.
So you wouldnt say they were paranoid? Like you already did in response to someone stating their concerns over Valve.
alexandros said:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40500636&postcount=388
alexandros
Banned
I did. I didn't agree with anything Totalbiscuit said in that video. Give me a minute to watch the video again and I'll give you a better answer.
Edit: I did. I didn't agree with anything Totalbiscuit said in that video. Give me a minute to watch the video again and I'll give you a better answer.
Edit2: Ah, now I remember. Yes, TotalBiscuit basically blamed the Steam audience for whining because they dare to ask that games should also be releasing on Steam. Well that is seriously the most idiotic argument that I've heard about Steam in general. In my opinion, every game should be on every possible platform in order for competition to work. I can understand why some companies would rather have their games exclusive to a platform, like EA does with Origin, but it is the audience's right to want to buy a game from any source they see fit. It is my opinion that more choice is always good.
Furthermore, he thinks that using a client is somehow evil. I do not, I have no problem with clients and in many cases they are useful, like when they update games automatically or offer other services like Steam and Origin do. Why hate on a client? He makes it clear in the video that his main problem is with people loving Valve and that somehow rubs him the wrong way. Weird.
There are things to criticize about Steam. "They have a client" and "people like them too much" are not valid reasons.
Edit: I did. I didn't agree with anything Totalbiscuit said in that video. Give me a minute to watch the video again and I'll give you a better answer.
Edit2: Ah, now I remember. Yes, TotalBiscuit basically blamed the Steam audience for whining because they dare to ask that games should also be releasing on Steam. Well that is seriously the most idiotic argument that I've heard about Steam in general. In my opinion, every game should be on every possible platform in order for competition to work. I can understand why some companies would rather have their games exclusive to a platform, like EA does with Origin, but it is the audience's right to want to buy a game from any source they see fit. It is my opinion that more choice is always good.
Furthermore, he thinks that using a client is somehow evil. I do not, I have no problem with clients and in many cases they are useful, like when they update games automatically or offer other services like Steam and Origin do. Why hate on a client? He makes it clear in the video that his main problem is with people loving Valve and that somehow rubs him the wrong way. Weird.
There are things to criticize about Steam. "They have a client" and "people like them too much" are not valid reasons.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I dunno, why would I be more concerned about my sister dating a convicted rapist than a guy she met in a bar?
But the guy at the bar could rape AND murder her.
Dismissing his worries over Valve as paranoia is not going to make the issue go away. Alexandros you can bury your head in the sand and cry about paranoia, or you can try to understand the problem and maybe try to fix it.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Sure, and the convicted rapist might have given up his raping ways.
But one of them has a well documented, publicly available, legal history of abusive behaviour that resulted in a conviction in court and the other's done nothing wrong yet.
alexandros
Banned
Well played
Just take a minute to read my edit about the video and if you still think my comments are inconsistent, I'll accept it.More like why would you be more concerned about your sister dating a convicted rapist or a rapist who has yet to be convicted.