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Novelist Neal Stephenson Describes Spending 416 Days at a Treadmill Desk

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entremet

entremet

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Novelist Neal Stephenson has to spend a lot of time at a desk, but that doesn't mean he's sitting still.

Stephenson, author of the New York Times bestseller "Anathem" and considered one of the pioneers of the cyber punk genre, blogged that he's been using a treadmill desk for years, but only recently started logging his mileage in a spreadsheet. Now that he's amassed 416 days worth of data, he said he had some thoughts on it.

"While its beneficial effects certainly outweigh its downside, it would be less than honest to claim that use of a treadmill while working is completely benign," he wrote.
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http://www.nealstephenson.com/news/2015/03/09/notes-on-416-days-of-treadmill-desk-usage/

After reading about the dangers of excessive sittings, I've been experimenting with standing desk for 4 years. I remember the first time I started using them, I lost 10 pounds in 3 weeks without changing my diet, workouts, or recovery practices.

And after a while I just felt more alert and lost my afternoon lethargy that was common. I was hooked.

However, I also learned that just static standing is not the most optimal either. It's better than sitting, but movement is the best. I couldn't swing a treadmill desk as HR wouldn't approve it, so I got a stool for mixing movement

The Mayo Clinic's Dr. James Levine thinks that excessive sitting will be the next health challenge to tackle.

SittingShouldScareYou.jpg
 
I've been messing around with a standing desk as well,at home. I don't really have a real one, but I've just piled my laptop on top of a bunch of boxes on my desk to test it out. I've really enjoyed it, so I might invest in something more permanent. Treadmill desk seems so crazy, though.
 
Tried standing one, but it makes my back hurt. I think treadmill would change that, because my back also hurts if I stand in one place for a long time, while I can easily walk all day without any problem there.
 
I'm currently working on getting off my ass more because I am so sedentary during the day and hope to transition to more movement eventually. Right now I get up every hour and jog in the house for at least 5 minutes before returning. Better than nothing and I'm still dealing with a few medical issues, but I wish I could do more. Been pondering a sit/stand desk that you can adjust freely.
 
NintendoGal said:
I'm currently working on getting off my ass more because I am so sedentary during the day and hope to transition to more movement eventually. Right now I get up every hour and jog in the house for at least 5 minutes before returning. Better than nothing and I'm still dealing with a few medical issues, but I wish I could do more. Been pondering a sit/stand desk that you can adjust freely.
Click to expand...
Geek desk has one. It's pricey though.
 
I've been standing at work for about 1.5 years now and it's been a mostly positive experience. I'm not tired in the afternoons, my posture has certainly improved, and I fee like it is easier to focus. My knees and heels can get a little sore sometimes, but my lower back feels better.

OP, you mentioned getting a stool for 'mixing movement'. What do you mean by that?
 
purvispisgah said:
I've been standing at work for about 1.5 years now and it's been a mostly positive experience. I'm not tired in the afternoons, my posture has certainly improved, and I fee like it is easier to focus. My knees and heels can get a little sore sometimes, but my lower back feels better.

OP, you mentioned getting a stool for 'mixing movement'. What do you mean by that?
Click to expand...

Sitting down. I sit around 1 hour total at work. Just static standing isn't too great either. I pace a lot and use a phone headset as well to make myself more mobile throughout the day.

They say treadmill desks are the best, but I can't swing that. If I worked at home or for myself, I would order a treadmill desk today.
 
The longest lived groups of people in the world have a few things in common*.

One of them is sustained low-impact, low aerobic (moving, but not enough to get you flustered) activity provides the best longevity and health outcomes for people growing into older years.

Things like house work and gardening.

Because it's something that's easy to maintain as a lifestyle for prolonged periods of time, without injury.

Also, because that low level activity over prolonged periods of time adds up - burns calories and helps to reduce the incidence of being overweight and obesity. Critically it reduces the interpenetration of fatty tissue in vital organ areas - which can negatively affect blood flow and physiological transfer mechanisms.

In our modern work environments - your best bet is to get a setup that allows you to *listen to your body*. You know you've been sitting too long when you start getting uncomfortable around your back, your thighs, your butt. Stand up. When your feet get sore, move around. Shift pressure of your feet, move your body around. Then sit down and repeat the cycle.

It's not as good as low-impact activity like housework or gardening - but it is better than sitting down and ignoring bodily pain and discomfort signals.


Ironically, VR might prove to be the great liberator of computing users around the world - finding room-scale movement based computing activity to be optimal to both health and computing use.

*the other things in case you were wondering is having low-caloric diets and having a strong network of life long and strong social relationships (where people regularly meet up).
 
I had ghetto rigged my old desk to be a standing desk and was using that for several months. I enjoyed it, but when I moved, my new office had a desk that didn't work with the things I had rigged up and I went back to sitting. I'd like to go back to standing at some point.
 
i'm always standing, with 15 minute sit breaks every hour or so.

only time i sit extendedly (wut) these days is to play video games
that said, good posture and muscle definition are everything, leading to better skeletal support and disk maneuverability
 
entrement said:
Sitting down. I sit around 1 hour total at work.
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I see. Typically, between meetings and some tasks that must be done at a computer that is not at a standing desk I probably have ~1 hour of sitting per day. I also sit at lunch because I hate to stand and eat for some reason.

If anyone is thinking about making the switch to a standing desk, invest in a good anti-fatigue mat. They are essential.
 
Zaptruder said:
The longest lived groups of people in the world have a few things in common.

One of them is sustained low-impact, low aerobic (moving, but not enough to get you flustered) activity provides the best longevity and health outcomes for people growing into older years.

Things like house work and gardening.

Because it's something that's easy to maintain as a lifestyle for prolonged periods of time, without injury.

Also, because that low level activity over prolonged periods of time adds up - burns calories and helps to reduce the incidence of being overweight and obesity. Critically it reduces the interpenetration of fatty tissue in vital organ areas - which can negatively affect blood flow and physiological transfer mechanisms.

In our modern work environments - your best bet is to get a setup that allows you to *listen to your body*. You know you've been sitting too long when you start getting uncomfortable around your back, your thighs, your butt. Stand up. When your feet get sore, move around. Shift pressure of your feet, move your body around. Then sit down and repeat the cycle.

It's not as good as low-impact activity like housework or gardening - but it is better than sitting down and ignoring bodily pain and discomfort signals.


Ironically, VR might prove to be the great liberator of computing users around the world - finding room-scale movement based computing activity to be optimal to both health and computing use.
Click to expand...

Yep.

It's called NEAT--Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis.

Modern society has almost eradicated NEAT, so that's tons of calories that used to get burned now just not being burned. Those calories need to go somewhere and evidence is showing it's going to our waistline as obesity rates get higher and higher.
 
entrement said:
Yep.

It's called NEAT--Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis.

Modern society has almost eradicated NEAT, so that's tons of calories that used to get burned now just not being burned. Those calories need to go somewhere and evidence is showing it's going to our waistline as obesity rates get higher and higher.
Click to expand...

That's a neat acronym :P. Haven't heard of it before - seems like a research pathway to me. Cheers.
 
I can't imagine using a treadmill desk is very good for productivity.Maybe if you just answer the phone all day but a job that requires a good deal of precision with what you type/click seems like it would be a nightmare.
 
God Dayumm said:
I've posted this image before:



Bye bye knees, hello ass!

Though you would be spending much less on a squatting stool than a standing or treadmill desk
Click to expand...

before chairs this is how people would relax without sitting in dirt

a lot of cultures people can actually do this because they've maintained they're childhood flexibility
 
Hollywood Duo said:
I can't imagine using a treadmill desk is very good for productivity.Maybe if you just answer the phone all day but a job that requires a good deal of precision with what you type/click seems like it would be a nightmare.
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Neil is a writer, so there's a lot of precision there. He said there was an adjustment period like anything else.
 
entrement said:
I personally prefer cranks since mechanical stuff is less prone to failure.
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But it's IKEA! ;) I've had a grand total of 2 desks from them over the years and they're the only ones that haven't fallen apart. Still using one currently in fact. Only reason I don't have the old one is because it was a corner desk and the apartment we have now is more open. I also would bank on being able to get a replacement motor if need be, but I completely understand wanting a less prone to breaking solution.
 
any of y'all walk around the house on your toes? i've always done it since i was a kid, don't know anyone else who does
 
NintendoGal said:
But it's IKEA! ;) I've had a grand total of 2 desks from them over the years and they're the only ones that haven't fallen apart. Still using one currently in fact. Only reason I don't have the old one is because it was a corner desk and the apartment we have now is more open. I also would bank on being able to get a replacement motor if need be, but I completely understand wanting a less prone to breaking solution.
Click to expand...

It's just personal preference. But it looks that desk is reviewed well. Go for it.
 
I worry about this but I have a desk job about 70% of the time(when I'm not in the field). I try to get up every hour and walk around a bit and after lunch I take a lap or 2 around the little track weather permitting.

I still do my regular exercise routine post work but no real way around it most of my day.
 
Even if standing most of the time were for the best, it's not something a lot of people can comfortably implement. Not to mention the downsides of so much standing.
 
Anyone read anything regarding upright bikes as opposed to treadmills? It seems like this would be much more tenable for a lot of offices compared to a treadmill.
 
NintendoGal said:
I've actually been looking around and it looks like IKEA has one for $500:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29022488/

It has a motor inside so no crank or anything.

Anyone have this desk by chance and willing to say anything about it?
Click to expand...

I have the five sided version for about a month now (hey it's on sale now); I like it a lot but be sure to pair it with a mat. Amazon has some good ones. This Ikea option is the best cost benefit; they have really changed the standing desk market.

The best thing about a standing desk is you feel good about sitting down and it feels more like a treat. Very similar to if you only have a coke every once in awhile
 
Azulsky said:
I worry about this but I have a desk job about 70% of the time(when I'm not in the field). I try to get up every hour and walk around a bit and after lunch I take a lap or 2 around the little track weather permitting.

I still do my regular exercise routine post work but no real way around it most of my day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the research is showing that gym workouts don't really counteract the effects of excessive sittings. Not to say to stop going to the gym. I go frequently too.
 
I'm at work and I decided to stand up. These threads always do it to me. Maybe one day I'll actually stick with it for longer than a day.
 
entrement said:
Yeah, the research is showing that gym workouts don't really counteract the effects of excessive sittings. Not to say to stop going to the gym. I go frequently too.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw a stat showing that long duration sitting is about as bad as smoking.

Dunno what else to say at least we have the periods of time where I am scurrying around the plant for a few weeks at a time.

Its all very depressing.
 
Very interesting. I've started trying to think of ways to not sit so much around the house like standing up or moving around when I'm playing games or putting my computer on top of something so I'm working on it while standing.

A standing desk was something I didn't really know about. I've also wanted to get a treadmill to use when just reading or whatnot.
 
entrement said:
It's just personal preference. But it looks that desk is reviewed well. Go for it.
Click to expand...

That's why I said I understand wanting something without a motor, I get it, I'm usually that way with cars (I prefer manual). :)

twerkitout said:
I have the five sided version for about a month now (hey it's on sale now); I like it a lot but be sure to pair it with a mat. Amazon has some good ones. This Ikea option is the best cost benefit; they have really changed the standing desk market.

The best thing about a standing desk is you feel good about sitting down and it feels more like a treat. Very similar to if you only have a coke every once in awhile
Click to expand...

Yeah I found the desk because of an article about how IKEA was helping bring them to more affordable levels.

My desk/chair already have a mat, so I'm set there. Your last comments are exactly what I wanted to hear about this for when I do go to change things up, thanks!
 
Femmeworth said:
Even if standing most of the time were for the best, it's not something a lot of people can comfortably implement. Not to mention the downsides of so much standing.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Even when I started standing I paced a lot. Static standing isn't good. It's still better than excessive sitting.

Excessive sitting also wrecks your flexibility and weakens gluten and hamstrings.

This seems to be hierarchy of movement patterns from worst to best

Siting all day with minimal breaks>Sitting all day with frequent breaks to stand and walk>Standing with limited moving>Standing mostly with movement and some minimal sitting>Treadmill setup>Mixed modal--farming, gardening, etc.

The last one is harder if you work an office job of course and some offices won't cosign treadmill desks.

But if you can get a stool and standing desk with some anti fatigue mats, you'll be in much better health outlook than just sitting.

If your office won't allow standing workstations. Standing to get water, bathroom, and mini breaks. Walk during your lunch break, walk after work.

JB1981 said:
He was walking at only 1.8mph?
Click to expand...

Yes. He can't speed walk as he's writing.

Plus he's walking at that pace for hours upon hours. This isn't a gym session.
 
NintendoGal said:
That's why I said I understand wanting something without a motor, I get it, I'm usually that way with cars (I prefer manual). :)



Yeah I found the desk because of an article about how IKEA was helping bring them to more affordable levels.

My desk/chair already have a mat, so I'm set there. Your last comments are exactly what I wanted to hear about this for when I do go to change things up, thanks!
Click to expand...

It may just be propaganda, but there are specific mats made for standing desks. They are a bit pricey, but I don't skimp when it comes to protection. Here is the one I use but there are other cheaper alternatives: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UA2WO2/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
I think for those starting out, try a mix standing and sitting approach and work up.

When I started my feet were in serious pain. But after a few weeks standing was pretty easy.

Later I learned that a mixed approach is best.

Also, another hard thing is learning how to concentrate standing up. That actually took me a long time. That was the hardest part honestly.
 
Tesseract said:
any of y'all walk around the house on your toes? i've always done it since i was a kid, don't know anyone else who does
Click to expand...

I knew a girl in high-school who did. She had some tendon in her ankles that were too short so she couldn't comfortably walk otherwise. She got surgery to change it, but she's so used to walk that way that she still does it.
 
EskimoJoe said:
I knew a girl in high-school who did. She had some tendon in her ankles that were too short so she couldn't comfortably walk otherwise. She got surgery to change it, but she's so used to walk that way that she still does it.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I thought that was bad for you long term?
 
I've been standing while working since I was teaching at the University back in 2009 and most recently at my newest company where I am the only one with a standing desk where I design training guides and videos. I haven't had an issue with it and honestly I would also prefer the treadmill. I didn't know that was a thing.
 
entrement said:
Yeah. I thought that was bad for you long term?
Click to expand...

My son spent a lot of time toe-walking when he first learned to walk, which can be a problem long-term. We got some tendon stretching exercises from some orthopedists, high top shoes, and reminded him to walk on his heels whenever we noticed the toe-walking and it seems to have worked itself out.
 
evilromero said:
So what are the best treadmill desks?
Click to expand...

There's two different flavors.

Ones that let you put whatever treadmill you own and ones that come with a treadmill. The latter are way more expensive.

My workplace won't allow it, but I was looking into this.

They wouldn't pay for it, but I would just buy it and write it off my taxes, plus health has no price to me and it's only 500 bucks, which is nothing for your health.

http://www.trekdesk.com

You have to bring your treadmill, though.
 
JB1981 said:
He was walking at only 1.8mph?
Click to expand...

From my experience, it's not so much about getting a workout doing this as it is keeping your body upright and moving. Sitting really weakens your core muscles over time, and even stifles how many calories you'll burn at rest. Let's say you use a treadmill desk half of the workday, that's 7.2 miles walked at this speed. So he's burning like 800 calories during that time in addition to his basal metabolic rate while also keeping his core engaged. It makes a difference over time, no doubt.
 
NintendoGal said:
I've actually been looking around and it looks like IKEA has one for $500:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29022488/

It has a motor inside so no crank or anything.

Anyone have this desk by chance and willing to say anything about it?
Click to expand...

I use two of these.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50272376/#/40104270

held together with
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50282182/#/60103750

and 3
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/56696109/#/76696009

It works like a charm and I love it.
 
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