Well, for one thing, NPD used to release a lot more information, even though they didn't have any competition. For another, Nielsen releases much more TV ratings information even though they don't have any competition. While it's probably true that NPD would release more information if they had some competition, it's not like the current state is the natural order of things. It's a choice they have made. Which is why I say that if you're looking for someone to blame for the lack of numbers, your search can start and end with NPD.
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NPD Sales Results for August 2014 [Up4: PS4 #1, XB1 last week sales 2x last Jul week]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Well, for one thing, NPD used to release a lot more information, even though they didn't have any competition. For another, Nielsen releases much more TV ratings information even though they don't have any competition. While it's probably true that NPD would release more information if they had some competition, it's not like the current state is the natural order of things. It's a choice they have made. Which is why I say that if you're looking for someone to blame for the lack of numbers, your search can start and end with NPD.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I apologise, I forgot to add the last week part onto my post in order to clarify why I thought it was news worthy. I was just surprised that Xbox One sold more Destiny than PS4 last week, not counting the bundle. It is very obvious going to sell more on the PS4 due to the marketing plus bundles. I would have still thought that Destiny PS4 would beat it during launch week.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
SwiftDeath
Member
Amazon was one of a few places that offered the Buy an XB1 get a free retail game so I'm not sure Amazon would necessarily speak to larger market trends in the regard. More curious though is whether or not pre-order sales of games count during the launch week on Amazon. I'm pretty sure they don't
Thus it could easily be the case of the majority of PS4/XB1 buyers of Destiny having already pre-ordered the game and the XB1 promotion simply bumping up the lesser sales that actually happened in launch week for the one platform
Aquamarine
Member
NPD only gives rankings, but so does GfK. It's only the Japanese sales industry where we see anything different.
And, you can't compare standards across industries.
Nielsen is extremely different from retail trackers. Studios / distributors also release a plethora of box office information to the public. Again, it's a different market...you can't compare it.
When we're talking about precedent within the retail market, the tendency to reliably divulge a regular set of video game sales numbers is relatively new.
In the 90s, there wasn't any kind of reliable sales reporting outside of rankings of "best-selling toy sales."
Back then, USA sales PR would be something like this:
"GAME BOY IS STILL KING OF THE MOUNTAIN
Video-game makers are slugging it out to win the battle for America's palms. Sega of America, the No. 2 game marketer to Nintendo Co., is coming out with Game Gear, a color, handheld machine that proposes to turn up the heat against the $90 black-and-white Nintendo Game Boy portable. Sega plans to launch its $150 Game Gear on Apr. 5 with a $15 million advertising campaign and a splashy event on the aircraft carrier Intrepid, a floating museum in New York.
But competition is stiff, says Andy Eddy, executive editor of VideoGames & Computer Entertainment magazine. Atari Corp. just slashed the price of its one-year-old Lynx machine from $179 to $99, making its color portable truly competitive. And NEC Technologies Inc. has a high-end, color handheld called TurboExpress for $299, which has the advantage of using the same software cards as its full-size machine. Despite the addition of color, competitors probably won't dislodge Nintendo anytime soon, says Eddy. He says that only 1 million to 2 million units of each color system will be sold. More than 4 million Nintendo Game Boys have been sold since July, 1989."
Hell, you even had situations like this:
And speaking of Japanese sales, Dengeki, for the longest time, didn't really release much of anything. And Famitsu wasn't all that reliable back in the 90s earlier.
Example of a Dengeki release in 2005:
#1: Sengoku Basara sold 94,000 units.
#2: Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball (PS2) 74,000 units.
#3: Super Mario Miracle Baseball sold 68,000 units; 45% of initial shipment (these games always have legs)
#4: Full Metal Alchemist 3 sold 38,000 units.
#5: Yugioh! Nightmare Troubadour sold 37,000 units.
#6: Ape Escape 3
#7: Yawaraka Atamajuku
#8: Beatle Mushi King
#9: Rockman 5DS EXE sold 23,000 units.
#10: Bleach
#11: Work Your Brain: Brain Training For Adults
That's incredibly limited from the highly detailed breakdown of Top 50 software and hardware we get today.
There's more precedent for sales obscurity than you might think.
metalslimer
Member
Yes the subscription costs a lot of money. They seemingly decided to stop giving everyone hardware numbers after a console manufacturer (most assume it to be Sony) said no.
SwiftDeath
Member
Hell, you even had situations like this:
Companies telling what their competitor "actually sold' is kind of amazing. Real wild west back then it would seem
dengeki must have really clammed up after a certain point, because i know we got weekly top 50s in 2002 because that's when i first started following sales.
Aquamarine
Member
Yeah, they stopped reporting numbers for a long time.
Some trackers are more cyclical.
Dengeki:
Weekly Top 50 -> A small amount of numbers every week -> Weekly Top 50
NPD:
Occasional "Best-selling Toys" Rankings -> Top 10 sales + hardware sales -> Top 10 Rankings
Famitsu:
Occasional number releases -> Weekly releases
The point is that NPD deciding to withhold numbers all of a sudden isn't all that surprising in the scheme of things.
It's surprising if you've only been following numbers since 2006 when NPD used to release lots of stuff, though.
theprodigy
Member
Hey Aquamarine how did Gamecube do in September-December 2003?
also how did Media Create fluctuate, I saw earlier they only gave numbers for top 10+top 50 rankings
also how did Media Create fluctuate, I saw earlier they only gave numbers for top 10+top 50 rankings
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
The GC did something like this from what I've found (if I shouldn't be posting such specific numbers, let me know, although this is publicly available online). iirc, the GC's price was cut to $99 (from $149) and had Mario Kart Double Dash release in November. It did very well those 4 months compared to its other years.
Sep-03 170,000
Oct-03 250,000
Nov-03 750,000
Dec-03 1,150,000
I personally feel like if Nintendo could actually get the cost of producing Wii Us down somehow (as in the same product for less, not just throwing away the GamePad), it could do them some good in the long run. It's still interesting that around 20% of the console's sales in the US came from this timeframe.
theprodigy
Member
Hey silly there's a thread on GAF with all of this and more:
(also apparently the original Xbox's 10-month total is 2688k vs XB1's 3207k, huh)
Gamecube
2001: 1236k
2002: 2178k
2003: 3284k
2004 (first 6 months): 714k
Xbox
2001: 1422k
2002: 3179k
2003: 3188k
2004 (first 6 months): 1371k
what do you mean with this btw?
(also apparently the original Xbox's 10-month total is 2688k vs XB1's 3207k, huh)
Gamecube
2001: 1236k
2002: 2178k
2003: 3284k
2004 (first 6 months): 714k
Xbox
2001: 1422k
2002: 3179k
2003: 3188k
2004 (first 6 months): 1371k
what do you mean with this btw?
Aquamarine
Member
Hey silly there's a thread on GAF with all of this and more:
link
Now THAT'S the kind of link we really shouldn't be sharing, guys.
A couple of GameCube numbers are okay, though.
And the problem with that link is it doesn't account for granularity.
September 2003:
GameCube Jet - 72K
GameCube Indigo - 43K
GameCube Limited Edition Platinum - 35K
GameCube Mario Sunshine Bundle - 8K
GameCube Refurbished - 5K
Total: 163K
October 2003:
GameCube Jet - 98K
GameCube Limited Edition Platinum - 87K
GameCube Indigo - 56K
GameCube Mario Sunshine Bundle - 6K
GameCube Refurbished - 6K
Total: 253K
November 2003:
GameCube Jet Collector's Edition with Zelda - 228K
GameCube Jet - 161K
GameCube Limited Edition Platinum - 134K
GameCube Indigo Collector's Edition with Zelda - 121K
GameCube Indigo - 98K
GameCube Mario Sunshine Bundle - 5K
GameCube Refurbished - 3K
Total: 751K
December 2003:
GameCube Limited Edition Platinum - 315K
GameCube Jet - 298K
GameCube Indigo Collector's Edition with Zelda - 241K
GameCube Jet Collector's Edition with Zelda - 167K
GameCube Indigo - 129K
GameCube Mario Sunshine Bundle - 5K
GameCube Refurbished - 3K
Total: 1158K
Aquamarine
Member
Hey silly there's a thread on GAF with all of this and more:
(also apparently the original Xbox's 10-month total is 2688k vs XB1's 3207k, huh)
Gamecube
2001: 1236k
2002: 2178k
2003: 3284k
2004 (first 6 months): 714k
Xbox
2001: 1422k
2002: 3179k
2003: 3188k
2004 (first 6 months): 1371k
what do you mean with this btw?
The numbers in that link are a tad rounded at times and they don't precisely account for the new SKUs that Nintendo introduced in November 2003.
What I posted above delineates the SKU progression during that time period.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Btw Aqua, are you allowed to say whether Layton v. AA sold 3 digit, 4 digit or 5 digit #s? >_>... I really liked the game, so I'm hoping for something better than completely dead (please don't be 3 =( ).
Also do you happen to know what Nintendo's reaction was to those 2003 GC sales? That was a pretty awesome holiday season for the GC all things considered (it outsold the XBox that year, sold like 20% of its US LTD then, etc.).
Also do you happen to know what Nintendo's reaction was to those 2003 GC sales? That was a pretty awesome holiday season for the GC all things considered (it outsold the XBox that year, sold like 20% of its US LTD then, etc.).
Im not expecting a PS4 price cut until xbox is beating it in monthly sales outside a holiday. That means if xbox is winning Jan/Feb next year then expect a March price cut. If not, I dont expect a cur until July/Aug/Sep
I can't tell if you're actually disagreeing with me. The original thread I responded to went like this:
BishopLamont: I miss the old days of NPD where we actually got numbers
NolbertoS: Blame Sony and MS, moreso than anything.
BishopLamont: Part of the blame falls on NPD for following suit
And I said "All of the blame falls on NPD. "
I'm not unaware of the history of NPD releases, but I don't see why it matters. NPD used to release more data, they could continue to do so, but they choose not to.
Aquamarine
Member
It wasn't necessarily a response to you, moreso a rebuttal to the "I miss the old days of NPD" narrative.
Why does the old history of NPD matter? Because it demonstrates that NPD is under no obligation to release any sort of numbers given precedent (i.e. they spent multiple decades giving us nothing), and their lack of releasing numbers is not "different from the norm."
The norm, for multiple decades, is a COMPLETE lack of reliability.
It's only within the past 10 years they decided to release numbers...which they stopped like 3-4 years ago.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Last of us is a beast for a remaster.
SwiftDeath
Member
It's done well. Good sign for GTAV and Halo MCC later this year
unapersson
Member
It's probably because there wasn't much to give, prior to ubiquitous computer networking it wasn't exactly easy to track sales. I remember looking at how GALLUP used to collate the music charts back in the early 90s, using samples based on the sales of a few shops that had their quite rudimentary systems in place. These samples would then be extrapolated across the rest of the market to produce the charts.
It's interesting: TLOU:R we know appealed to all the many PS4 owners who never owned a PS3. Yoshida tweeted the percent a while back and it was surprisingly high.
Can the same be said for Halo MCC? I would think most people who want the MCC are fans/lapsed fans of the series (but it would also be a great package for someone new to the series).
What about GTAV? GTAV sold so well on the PS3/360 I'd imagine for most people, the next gen port is an upgrade to a game they already own or played? Not sure.
(I still think all these games will be huge, just speculating on a slight distinction)
SwiftDeath
Member
It's a valid point for sure but I'm certain at least some decent chunk of TLOU:R purchasers owned a PS3 prior and either didn't get it the first time round or wanted a better version
Do you have a link to the tweet about the PS4 owner percentage?
I think Halo MCC will sell well due to its value for money, sheer quantity of content, etc.
I don't really think it will move hardware too much in and of itself though
GTAV for PS4/XB1 is going to sell big because it's GTAV
My comment simply meant that it didn't seem consumers were too disagreeable about buying previously released games
Looks like this is the source, an interview with Eurogamer:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph
The Last of Us HD, it's a new game to play for people who didn't play on PS3. One amazing statistic, to me at least, was published by Nielsen a couple of months ago. They researched the PS4, and reported that 17 per cent of PS4 owners had never owned the last gen. A completely new consumer who skipped a generation. 32 per cent additionally didn't own a PS3, but owned a 360 or Wii.
"Almost 50 per cent of people who have purchased a PS4 didn't own a PS3, and that's lots of people that missed exclusive PS3 titles like The Last of Us, so it's a great way to welcome those people back to PlayStation, saying this is what you missed."
"Almost 50 per cent of people who have purchased a PS4 didn't own a PS3, and that's lots of people that missed exclusive PS3 titles like The Last of Us, so it's a great way to welcome those people back to PlayStation, saying this is what you missed."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph
SwiftDeath
Member
Thanks. Interesting stat for sure
serversurfer
Member
Do we have any idea how it's doing in Europe, where people are more likely to have played the PS3 version? That may give us a better idea of how much double dipping is really going on.
SwiftDeath
Member
The Germany number is very impressive I think as it's a much smaller market than the US and a somewhat smaller market then the UK so must be a high attach rate
Probably 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 PS4 owners in Germany [14% - 17% attach rate for a remaster]
Probably 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 PS4 owners in Germany [14% - 17% attach rate for a remaster]
Those poor bastards.
boredandlazy
Member
I know someone who bought the Destiny bundle because in Australia some retailers were also including the Last of Us Remaster. He didn't really give that much of a crap about Destiny.
and plenty of people love Destiny as well.
I know, I know! Shocker, for sure, to know people enjoy things others may not...
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
I kind of wonder, do a lot of folks buy a game they already bought a year ago just because it's prettier on their new console? The Last of Us is smaller, and I'm sure a bunch of former 360 owners wanted to play it on their PS4. I admit, if there was backwards compatibility on the consoles, most of these remasters might not do as well. Or is there any extra content in the PS4/XB1/PC versions of GTAV that the PS3/360 versions didn't have? I mainly ask this because clearly TONS of people already bought GTAV on last gen, so how many of them are just happy with what they already have played/continue to play?
boredandlazy
Member
and plenty of people love Destiny as well.
I know, I know! Shocker, for sure, to know people enjoy things others may not...
I didn't say he thought it was a good or a bad game. In fact I haven't asked him since he only got it delivered yesterday. I haven't played it either so I can't comment on it's quality. I was just saying Destiny wasn't the reason he bought the Destiny bundle.
SwiftDeath
Member
Eh I think there's supposed to be some amount of new content for GTAV but I think it's really small
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=893579&highlight=gtav
And then like new radio songs too I guess but that's not going to be that much
Maybe you're right and GTAV won't sell that well on PS4/XB1 but I'm optimistic on its prospects
The numbers have all been made available in this thread but it's been decided not to summarize such things later in the thread
Square2015
Member
Yes but Dengeki goes way back, with figures. I was tracking them starting 2001 (their PS2/PSX numbers seemed more accurate than Famitsoos).
Here's Dengeki's Top Selling list for 1993!
Code:
1 Street Fighter II Turbo Capcom SFC 1,314,000
2 Seiken Densetsu 2 Square SFC 1,002,000
3 Dragon Ball Z Bandai SFC 930,000
4 Super Mario Collection Nintendo SFC 877,000
5 Romancing SaGa 2 Square SFC 823,000
6 Dragon Ball Z 2 Bandai SFC 740,000
7 J. League Soccer Prime Goal Namco SFC 610,000
8 Dragon Quest I･II Enix SFC 567,000
9 Torneko's Mysterious Dungeon Chun Soft SFC 510,000
10 Super Bomberman Hudson SFC 497,000
11 Super Mario Kart Nintendo SFC 450,000
12 Legend of Zelda: Dream Island Nintendo GB 431,000
13 Super Mario Land 2 Nintendo GB 423,000
14 Kirby Pinball Nintendo GB 414,000
15 Kirby Adventure Nintendo FC 398,000
16 Crayon Shinchan 嵐を呼ぶ園児 Bandai SFC 363,000
17 Fatal Fury 2 Takara SFC 348,000
18 Crayon Shinchan オラとシロはおともだち Bandai GB 340,000
19 Yuuyuu Hakusho Namco SFC 331,000
20 Star Fox Nintendo SFC 325,000ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
I think it'll do fine as a remaster, but I don't see it doing much better than let's say TLoUR in the short term. Basically I see some portion of the folks still buying it for 360/PS3 holding off to buy it on PS4/XB1. Considering that's still pretty decent each month right now (somewhat less than 100K, but still over MK8's August sales apparently), then it's a good long term investment, maybe after some price drops, etc. I could see folks thinking "GTAV sold 30m units WW, the remaster is going to sell ridiculously well like 10M". I just don't think it'll do THAT well (like better than 95% of new games) but good for a remaster.
Aquamarine
Member
I've actually done some investigative research, and I've found that refraining from leaks summaries has actually benefited us.
Compared to last month, GAF's notoriety has definitely been reduced thanks to leak obfuscation.
Unfortunately, there are a few people / GAFfers who took it upon themselves to collate all of GAF's leaks into another, non-important public forum...and then give people links to said forum when they ask "where are the leaks."
But that's not under our control because it takes place outside of NeoGAF.
SwiftDeath
Member
Cool to hear about the downturn of attention, Aqua
I also noticed the collated leaks in that other forum. Be ironic if NPD came knocking at their door asking them to stop posting their numbers I would think
I also noticed the collated leaks in that other forum. Be ironic if NPD came knocking at their door asking them to stop posting their numbers I would think
theprodigy
Member
uh so what other forum are we talking about here
if it's chartz just nod, otherwise PM me
if it's chartz just nod, otherwise PM me
Aquamarine
Member
uh so what other forum are we talking about here
if it's chartz just nod, otherwise PM me
Chartz is one place...
"USA Video game NPD sales as revealed by Chartz"
^ You get those headlines.
But there's something else as well. PM sent.
SwiftDeath
Member
Hmm somewhere else?
RandyBobandy
Banned
Pm me too. It's no fun without actual numbers
Aquamarine
Member
Never mind.
SwiftDeath
Member
Sigh
BishopLamont
Banned
We should blame Nintendo for dominating so much with the DS/Wii that Sony and Microsoft had to sook to NPD.
Seriously though, we get numbers for other stuff like music/movies and yet when it comes to videogame its suppose to be special. It just sucks because giving out just a bit more numbers means nothing to them, but it means alot to us fans who need every little bit of information for discussion.
Seriously though, we get numbers for other stuff like music/movies and yet when it comes to videogame its suppose to be special. It just sucks because giving out just a bit more numbers means nothing to them, but it means alot to us fans who need every little bit of information for discussion.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
There's really no point in arguing about why NPD does or doesn't release their numbers, since that's not going to change much unfortunately.
Don't make the request on the thread >_>.....
Searching and patience are your friends here =)....
you or swiftdeath please send me the numbers.
Don't make the request on the thread >_>.....
Searching and patience are your friends here =)....
theprodigy
Member
Hey Aquamarine, how much did Brawl do LTD in the US?
serversurfer
Member
I'm your friend too, so this is probably the best hint I can give:
Y'all are prolly looking in the wrong thread if you just wanna see how close your guess was.
Mods, feel free to edit this, if that's too good a hint.