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[otapnam]

I was born in 1984 and hate to be lumped together with people born in the 90s. There's a firm divide between the two decades.

That's the thing that gets me about marketing too. (Im a web designer)

All these ad agencys and marketing firms have lumped their targets wrong and still don't really have an idea who the millenials are and don't get why they can't reach their audience. It's kind of ridiculous

 

[evilromero]

I don't see the point of marriage, it's a relic from our religious past. But most women love it and that's probably why I end up doing it aswell.

Marriage itself isn't religious at its core though. It's something that many cultures, regardless of religion, recognize and practice. I think you're short shifting the importance of uniting two separate families, which has many survival benefits.

In addition, a monogamous relationship is not exclusive to humans. We didn't invent such an idea. It is something that many other species around the animal kingdom recognize and practice. And just like those other animals, things don't always go as planned. There is infidelity, loss of a partner, fighting and jealously.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Getting married next Saturday. Have no intentions of having children. My SO and I are very selfish in that regard. Having come from little money myself, I want to enjoy my life with my partner without sacrificing for a child.

 

[Blader]

Like so many children of the 1980s and '90s — the decades when the nation hit its highest divorce rate — both Sheridan and Underwood are also wary about the institution of marriage.

Underwood says when he was a baby — or when his mom was still pregnant, he isn't sure — "my dad left for a loaf of bread and never came back."

Sheridan's parents stayed together, but fought a lot.

"That was hard to watch," she says. "I don't want to go through that, and I don't want my kids to see it."

I don't understand this. Whether you're boyfriend/girlfriend or married, if you split up, you split up. How would two unmarried parents breaking up be any less traumatic for a kid than married parents divorcing?

 

[Philia]

Marriage itself isn't religious at its core though. It's something that many cultures, regardless of religion, recognize and practice. I think you're short shifting the importance of united two separate families, which has many survival benefits.

In addition, a monogamous relationship is not exclusive to humans. We didn't invent such an idea. It is something that many other species around the animal kingdom recognize and practice. And just like those other animals, things don't always go as planned. There is infidelity, loss of a partner, fighting and jealously.

This and women most certainly don't want to be saddled with a money drain on her own. :\ Kids these days are costly but a lot of people (mostly women) do look forward to kids though.

 

[entremet]

Sounds unwise to have kids out of wedlock, but to each his/her own.

 

[zero shift]

Giving tax deductions for people solely because they are married is so ridiculous.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Grow up and have kids. Don't have kids then grow up.

We had our children in our 30's and being older parents is fucking awesome. We both lived like rock stars during our 20's until that shit was lame. Then we settled down at a natural pace in our 30's. We have a shitload of money, stability, and time. We had none of that in our 20's, lol. Our children's education will be paid in full and they'll be out of the house in time for us to enjoy our retirement. We'll have free reign to visit them whenever and wherever in the country/world they end up.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

I don't understand this. Whether you're boyfriend/girlfriend or married, if you split up, you split up. How would two unmarried parents breaking up be any less traumatic for a kid than married parents divorcing?

I think what she is trying to say is that her parents stayed together since they were married but it didn't help since they fought a lot. Basically trying to stay married just for the sake of staying married, not because they still loved each other. That scenario for a lot of kids is worse than parents breaking up/divorcing. So I guess she meant not being married makes it easier to seperate than having to go through a divorce.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I can't even afford to elope, I think kids are a long ways off.

Modern marriage is no longer a guarantee of not growing up alone. Big weddings are a luxury that only those who are relatively well off can splurge on. I've dated a ton of girls this year who roll their eyes when talking about their stepmoms and stepdads, I wonder if any of them even see marriage as a good thing.

That being said, all the stats bare out that having a kid in a stable home (especially financially) is the biggest predictor of success. It's still more rational to wait to have a life partner before having kids, but logic often doesn't play into these decisions.

 

[industrian]

That's the thing that gets me about marketing too. (Im a web designer)

That's funny, because I'm a web designer who works in marketing.

All these ad agencys and marketing firms have lumped their targets wrong and still don't really have an idea who the millenials are and don't get why they can't reach their audience. It's kind of ridiculous

That's just laziness though. For example: why make 3-4 individual groups to fit every need when you can make 2 large ones that are "close enough". Kind of like using tables for layout.

And I put your latter comment down to older, tenured managers and directors who have no idea of what's relevant anymore and refuse to change. I've had a few of those bosses.

 

[clav]

Not really a good idea either to have kids before you are ready.

So many couples do, and then they wonder why the world is a terrible place to live with their irresponsible family.

As for the situation described in the article, couples will fight who gets the bigger tax deduction (i.e. claim dependents) since they are not married.

 

[n64coder]

Giving tax deductions for people solely because they are married is so ridiculous.

If you don't like it, you can always run for office or put your support behind people who support the idea.

Society views married families as a benefit and tax benefits is one way to encourage that.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I honestly find it surprising that dissatisfaction with the institution of marriage leads millennial to overlook the economic benefits of marriage. I would think that if you see marriage for love as a sham that you would look more objectively at the functional costs/benefits you get out of it. If anything, going into marriage with an understanding you're only doing it for the money to help your kids would lead to better results. Such folk would be more likely to sign pre-nups and be able to have discussions more easily about when the costs of marriage had become too high and divorce accordingly. I guess they fear feeling stuck in the marriage relationship because of the economic benefits it provides to their children, but even if you're unmarried presumably you would still feel compelled to stick around for the kids sake (and you would be forfeiting significant amounts of economic resources for your children).

 

[JimmyRustler]

The older I get the less I want marriage and/or kids. 28 now.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Dunno if I count as a millennial but kids are definitely off the fuckin' table.

 

[GSG Flash]

Looking at my Facebook friends from highschool, it seems like it's 50/50.

Even my really strict Christian highschool friend had a kid before marriage, and he's the last person I would have thought would have premarital sex.

Personally, I could never imagine having kids before marriage, and not just because of the moral arguments, the legal arguments have a lot to do with it too.

 

[SmokyDave]

Grow up and have kids. Don't have kids then grow up.

We had our children in our 30's and being older parents is fucking awesome. We both lived like rock stars during our 20's until that shit was lame. Then we settled down at a natural pace in our 30's. We have a shitload of money, stability, and time. We had none of that in our 20's, lol. Our children's education will be paid in full and they'll be out of the house in time for us to enjoy our retirement. We'll have free reign to visit them whenever and wherever in the country/world they end up.

Exactly this. Waited until my 30s to get married and have kids and I'm so glad. I don't feel like I missed out on anything during my teens and early 20s. Me and the missus had a blast for nearly ten years after that and now marriage and a baby have firmly marked the beginning of our new lives as 'family people'. It's worked out great.

 

[Shiina]

Those tax deductions tho

They should funnel those tax deductions into having children. Children are important, marriage is not.

 

[thesoapster]

...whom she lives with in Frederick, Md

I swear I've seen that guy in town...oh god

Grow up and have kids. Don't have kids then grow up.

We had our children in our 30's and being older parents is fucking awesome. We both lived like rock stars during our 20's until that shit was lame. Then we settled down at a natural pace in our 30's. We have a shitload of money, stability, and time. We had none of that in our 20's, lol. Our children's education will be paid in full and they'll be out of the house in time for us to enjoy our retirement. We'll have free reign to visit them whenever and wherever in the country/world they end up.

If I ever have kids, this seems like the way I'd want to go...

 

[studyguy]

Too broke to have kids, sorry.

 

[Makonero]

That's funny, because I'm a web designer who works in marketing.



That's just laziness though. For example: why make 3-4 individual groups to fit every need when you can make 2 large ones that are "close enough". Kind of like using tables for layout.

And I put your latter comment down to older, tenured managers and directors who have no idea of what's relevant anymore and refuse to change. I've had a few of those bosses.

As a web developer, this made my eye twitch something fierce.

 

[terrisus]

I think what she is trying to say is that her parents stayed together since they were married but it didn't help since they fought a lot. Basically trying to stay married just for the sake of staying married, not because they still loved each other. That scenario for a lot of kids is worse than parents breaking up/divorcing. So I guess she meant not being married makes it easier to seperate than having to go through a divorce.

People can "stay together for the kids" even if they're not married.
People staying in bad relationships/bad situations isn't exclusive to married people.

 

[Rayis]

For me it's going to be neither

 

[BadRamen]

People can "stay together for the kids" even if they're not married.
People staying in bad relationships/bad situations isn't exclusive to married people.

But maybe there is laziness factor when married? Like "Oh GAWD now I have to sell the house/get a lawyer/face possible external negative judgment of breaking SACRED VOWZ/ insert excuse here, valid or not/etc"?

 

[Skiptastic]

They should funnel those tax deductions into having children. Children are important, marriage is not.

If the government was really interested in encouraging marriage for kids, they would keep the current child tax deductions where they are for single folks but make them even more if you have kids and are married. That's if you want the government getting into that type of thinking.

My wife and I are looking to have kids, but I can't imagine having kids without being married. It would seem like not having a partner who is fully on board. I guess that's changing but I'm 31 and technically a Millennial, so I'm swaying the trend back!

BTW, those marriage "tax deductions" can also be tax penalties. If my wife and I were to do a joint filing this year, she would both be penalized. I'd stay at my bracket and she would go up a bracket, boosting her taxes by 10%. So married filing separately for now.

 

[terrisus]

But maybe there is laziness factor when married? Like "Oh GAWD now I have to sell the house/get a lawyer/insert excuse here, valid or not"?

If that's people's reason for not wanting to enter into a marriage, they can always set up a prenuptual agreement, and not have to worry about it.

 

[mnannola]

We have two kids (planned), been together for 9 years, and are not married. We have a great relationship, we are just waiting until a little later when we can afford to have a decent wedding / honeymoon.

To us kids are a much stronger commitment than marriage. When you are non-religious, marriage doesn't have the same meaning behind it. No matter what kind of documents you have, a relationship will only last as long as both parties want it to. We figured it would be better to spend our money having kids first when we are young, marriage can wait.

 

[BadRamen]

If that's people's reason for not wanting to enter into a marriage, they can always set up a prenuptual agreement, and not have to worry about it.

Isn't there still the stigma that wanting(getting?) a prenup means you don't trust the other person/you are an asshole? I have zero hands on experience but the debate has come up in a variety of venues with all ages at different times and in my anecdotal limited experience, it still seems to be a hotly talked topic. I see what you mean, with it making it easier overall, but for some people, I imagine it isn't that simple of a choice to make.

Again, I can only semi-educatedly speculate. I suspect public (and private in the case of family and close friends) perception is a big factor in couples deciding to separate, being married or not.

I was born in 1984 and hate to be lumped together with people born in the 90s.

Oh I definitely feel ya there. Born in '89 and I can't stand being lumped in with these... damn... dirty... CHILDS

 

[cubicle47b]

If tax brackets and deductions didn't change for people filing jointly, married people would end up paying a lot more taxes than single people as long as both were making money.

 

[terrisus]

Isn't there still the stigma that wanting(getting?) a prenup means you don't trust the other person/you are an asshole?

Well, sure. But, I mean, I don't think it would be any greater than simply not wanting to get married at all because of concerns about what happens during a divorce.

I mean, what sounds worse?

A: Will you marry me?
B: Only if we can have a prenuptual agreement


C: Will you marry me?
D: No
C: Why not?
D: Because things can get really messy in divorce proceedings

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm 26, have been with my partner almost 7 years. I'm gradually getting more interested in the idea of kids, but I'm utterly uninterested in the idea of marriage. I really like weddings, though, and I think my lady is into it so I suspect I will get married at some point.

 

[p2535748]

Giving tax deductions for people solely because they are married is so ridiculous.

That's not actually how it works. Whether marriage is beneficial or not to your tax burden depends on a lot of things, most notably the disparity between incomes. Two people in the same income bracket who get married often actually get penalized for doing so.

 

[Goliath]

I have come to the realization that you are never truly ready to have kids. You can scrimp, save and try to mentally prepare but you will always feel unready until you just jump in. I have stopped trying to plan the perfect scenerio before introducing my kids to the world, especially when all the generations before me did it with far less then what I have.

 

[cubicle47b]

That's not actually how it works. Whether marriage is beneficial or not to your tax burden depends on a lot of things, most notably the disparity between incomes. Two people in the same income bracket who get married often actually get penalized for doing so.

You have to make a lot of money for that to be the case. The tax difference between a couple making two hundred thousand versus two people making a hundred thousand is a little under a thousand in the couple's favor. It's around the four hundred thousand mark (versus 2x200k) that it becomes worse for couples. Things are dead even at one hundred thousand (versus 2x50k).

 

[Cloud Strife]

I am 21 and thinking neither of marriage or having kids.

Same here.

 

[Timeaisis]

We're both 26, married. Probably have kids in a few years. Still getting our careers in order and all that. Just bought a house, so that'a a tick off the list I guess.

Maybe when I'm 30? I dunno, I'm in the same boat as a lot of people here that want to be ready.

 

[manngc]

BTW, those marriage "tax deductions" can also be tax penalties. If my wife and I were to do a joint filing this year, she would both be penalized. I'd stay at my bracket and she would go up a bracket, boosting her taxes by 10%. So married filing separately for now.

I don't think that's quite how it works. Filing separately should results in exactly the same overall combined tax burden as filing jointly. The only difference is you're not eligible for some special joint filing exceptions and you don't have to take responsibility for the other person's tax filing if its wrong.

The tax brackets for filing separately should be identical up until a joint income of about $150k. That's where the marriage penalty starts kicking in.

 

[BadRamen]

Well, sure. But, I mean, I don't think it would be any greater than simply not wanting to get married at all because of concerns about what happens during a divorce.

I mean, what sounds worse?

A: Will you marry me?
B: Only if we can have a prenuptual agreement


C: Will you marry me?
D: No
C: Why not?
D: Because things can get really messy in divorce proceedings

Again, I don't think conversations go as smoothly as you type them out and as a robot myself, that second convo is very sterile and unlively, which I am gonna go out on a limb and say is usually the opposite of feels when a topic like marriage is typically discussed (not saying I wouldn't be talking like that, it gets right to the point)

All I am trying to say is that people have difficulty saying/do what they want to say/do in life in general but when you put extra legal/moral/personal layers on top of a technically "simple" decision, I will wager the extra layers lead a lot of people to have difficulty, possibly stacked on the base difficulty of splitting up as a couple, making a quick/smart/obvious/whatever choice.

Oh just to let you know, all of this has been fun! No malice trying to be given out here!

EDIT:

People staying in bad relationships/bad situations isn't exclusive to married people.

To clear up my post, I agree with this! But maybe it is worse when people are married?
Then again, perhaps it is just people reacting to what they grew up with like the man in the article not wanting his kids to see bickering almost-divorced parents after seeing his own parents do the same, like how my mother would not buy me fun cereals (i.e. not Total and Non-frosted Shredded Wheat) when I was growing up. Experiencing what I felt as unjustice, I made vows to buy my kids all sorts of cereals! Haha, maybe not the same sitch but this post was at least a decent read, rite?

Seriously though, I don't know if there are any studies out there or any that are relevant to the newer stats that more parents are unwed, divorce rates higher etc. that can help illustrate what on average is a worse homelife for a kid.

 

[azyless]

I am completely disinterested in marriage, I would get married if my partner particularly wanted it or for economic/practical reasons, but I don't consider it a priority at all. I do want kids though.
I'm surprised at how many people seem to assume that : not married = unstable relationship, immature, etc. Maybe that's a US thing, I don't think people place as much importance on marriage over here. I think unplanned pregnancies are a much bigger concern than whether or not people are married tbh.
Then again "traditional family structure" as a whole is something I really don't care about and I'd be glad if we moved away from it (again, unplanned pregnancies are another issue).

 

[terrisus]

Again, I don't think conversations go as smoothly as you type them out and as a robot myself, that second convo is very sterile and unlively, which I am gonna go out on a limb and say is usually the opposite of feels when a topic like marriage is typically discussed (not saying I wouldn't be talking like that, it gets right to the point)

All I am trying to say is that people have difficulty saying what they want to say in life in general but when you put extra legal/moral/personal layers on top of a technically "simple" decision, I will wager the extra layers lead a lot of people to have difficulty, possibly stacked on the base difficulty of splitting up as a couple, a quick/smart/obvious/whatever choice.

Oh just to let you know, all of this has been fun! No malice trying to be given out here!

Yeah, obviously that's not exactly how the conversations would go, but, I just have difficulty seeing how a discussion about signing a piece of paper would go any worse than a conversation about the details of what would happen during a divorce. Yes, they both only come into play during a divorce, but, I mean, saying that you don't want to get married to someone because you think they'll screw you over during a divorce... Seems much easier to just sign a piece of paper.

And, yeah, no malice at all, no worries.

 

[Grizzo]

My best friend and her boyfriend have had a son together but they're not interested in marriage. They do have registered a civil partnership though, but marriage is not something they're thinking about.

Just putting my two-cents in it.

 

[Two Words]

Marriage is such an antiquated concept. It's just a giant middle-man that does nothing.

 

[Vilam]

Kids never, marriage maybe.

 

[theechrisfox]

I used to want kids until my friends and I grew up and finished college and whatnot. There are no jobs for us, just debt. Just student loan trickery and empty promises. Just trying to afford housing is near impossible. I don't understand how people can consciously keep spawning humans into a situation that is going to be exponentially worse for them when they are grown.

 

[terrisus]

I used to want kids until my friends and I grew up and finished college and whatnot. There are no jobs for us, just debt. Just student loan trickery and empty promises. Just trying to afford housing is near impossible.

This is truth =(

 

[Dusk Soldier]

31, and I still have no idea why I fall into the "Millennial" group, given I was 18 by the turn of the millennium.

But, married at 25, and unable to have children =(

The millenials are the generation that watched the turn of the millennium, but were not adults at the time. (i.e you) Although I guess you could consider yourself borderline.

 

[BadRamen]

Yeah, obviously that's not exactly how the conversations would go, but, I just have difficulty seeing how a discussion about signing a piece of paper would go any worse than a conversation about the details of what would happen during a divorce. Yes, they both only come into play during a divorce, but, I mean, saying that you don't want to get married to someone because you think they'll screw you over during a divorce... Seems much easier to just sign a piece of paper.

And, yeah, no malice at all, no worries.

Isn't that what the point of bringing up signing a prenup is? Either nonverbally or verbally, the other person could interpret the prenup talk as basically saying "When we get divorced, I think you'll" + "screw me over during it", whether or not the person bringing the prenup up originally did it for the legal benefits or whatever. It, from my anecdotal experience, can totally be seen as having little to no lasting faith in the marriage before it even begins.

I think the second conversation is what I would do if I really had those problems with someone before marrying them, but if I really wanted to marry them, then regardless of whether or not I think we would have issues leading to nasty divorce problems, then I would do a prenup. The person I would be hypothetically marrying would also assumingly be fine with prenups, otherwise I probably would have lost interest long ago (not specifically because of that topic but it would most likely lead to other, non-negotiable differences) But that is me! And I get a LOT of people are not like me. (all of this is relevant/on-topic as I am a millennial! Hah!)

This is truth =(

I used to want kids until my friends and I grew up and finished college and whatnot. There are no jobs for us, just debt. Just student loan trickery and empty promises. Just trying to afford housing is near impossible. I don't understand how people can consciously keep spawning humans into a situation that is going to be exponentially worse for them when they are grown.

Kind of how I feel, but take it further back to deciding to even finishing school. There just seems to be no way to be comfortably financially fit, college-educated and child-having. And maybe there is!

...I just don't see it.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Yeah this seems true. I have 4 friends now that have kids while not being married (all of which are under 22). Hell, one of my coworkers just got pregnant (intentionally) and she only knew the guy 3 or 4 months.

 

[Valhelm]

I really don't get this attitude. Having children is exceedingly more permanent and more costly than getting married. It would be awesome if getting married was less of a hassle, so less couples are put off by the cost.

I hope this doesn't sound too conservative, but I do think that married parents promotes family unity and benefits the children. I know a lot of people whose parents weren't married, and not a single one grew up with both parents.