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[Rran]

(Final Fantasy 7 spoilers, I guess, if you've somehow avoided them for this long.)

Link. So NPR just ran a This American Life segment discussing the death in FF7. They basically took the opportunity to push the narrative that players mainly cared about her because she's designed to be pretty, and they're in disbelief that boys cried over this. This story ticks me off for a myriad of reasons (and I think FF7 is only okay!), but what do you think? Hit up the link and give them hits, I guess.

 

[Tesseract]

her death was sad because her life sauce was encapulated inside the materia balls

supperith was never frogaven for his misdeeds against my flowerly princess

 

[Birdo]

What the fuck is going on with that website? I was expecting an article. But instead I get a bunch of sound clips filled with ads spread across seperate pages...... Seriously, you can't even scrub the timeline.

Sorry for going off topic, but's I'm literally in shock with how bad that website is. I can't believe it's real.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

NPR is establishment trash. Programming designed solely to make the listener feel smug about themselves

Big surprise they are peddling gamer stereotypes

 

[Burger]

Uhh if you listen to it they give pretty good reasons why it seems odd - giving examples of why the character herself is pretty poorly fleshed out and void of personality and give some theories on why they think people became so attached to her.

 

[Northeastmonk]

On a side note, I've always felt like an uninformed dumbass listening to NPR about anything video game related. Even if I'm fully aware of what they're talking about. Bringing up her death after 20 years and trying to tell us something different is a waste of time. Its only relevant because Square-Enix is pouring millions of dollars into a remake that will last them another 10 years. Otherwise no one would have cared. I always felt like people took that scene way too seriously. I didn't get attached to her and I played this game back in the late 90's.

 

[Deft Beck]

I already made a thread on this last week: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/this...gment-on-aerith-from-final-fantasy-7.1493572/

679: Save the Girl - This American Life

www.thisamericanlife.org

Uhh if you listen to it they give pretty good reasons why it seems odd - giving examples of why the character herself is pretty poorly fleshed out and void of personality and give some theories on why they think people became so attached to her.

But she's clearly not void of personality if you actually played the game. None of the presenters had played the game (or at least recently) and judged Aerith based on hearsay, watching a YT video and reading the manual.

 

[Rran]

Uhh if you listen to it they give pretty good reasons why it seems odd - giving examples of why the character herself is pretty poorly fleshed out and void of personality and give some theories on why they think people became so attached to her.

I'm all for dumping on FF7's cast, but they sell Aeris pretty short here. Saying she has less personality than a Chocobo feels like a cheap shot, and they go to the damsel-in-distress complaint when it doesn't really apply (Cloud isn't rescuing Aeris in that sequence, she had gone off ahead instead of Cloud and company for the opposite reason--she was the only one that stood a chance against Sephiroth at that point). For running a nationally-aired segment on the game, they don't seem to be very knowledgable about basic plot points.

And then they keep trying to force this "just a pretty face" narrative at every turn, like pointing out the fan's mistake of her eye colors (he said blue, she corrected him saying they were green; they're basically a blue-green), and asking if people would care if she was less pretty (which is a common complaint about a lot of character designs and it always rings extremely hollow. People are more drawn to attractive people, in life and in media).

The bigger issue is that it just feels like this Roger Ebert-style dumping on games yet again as an inferior medium. "A GAME made you CRY?" comes across as really closed-minded. Oh, people can get emotionally moved by The Notebook and Harry Potter, but those are films and books, high-class art forms. Video games are puerile, low art.

I already made a thread on this last week: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/this...gment-on-aerith-from-final-fantasy-7.1493572/

679: Save the Girl - This American Life

www.thisamericanlife.org

Ludicrous segment, I agree.

Whoops, my bad. I was under the impression that it was a very recent story. Mods can lock this thread if they wanna.

 

[Thabass]

Uhh if you listen to it they give pretty good reasons why it seems odd - giving examples of why the character herself is pretty poorly fleshed out and void of personality and give some theories on why they think people became so attached to her.

What in the actual fuck? This is wrong on all accounts. Did you actually play the game? If you did, you would know that Aerith has one of the best personalities in the game.

 

[Vawn]

They basically took the opportunity to push the narrative that players mainly cared about her because she's designed to be pretty, and they're in disbelief that boys cried over this.

Yeah she was super hot.

 

[Deft Beck]

What in the actual fuck? This is wrong on all accounts. Did you actually play the game? If you did, you would know that Aerith has one of the best personalities in the game.

And far from being a flat damsel, she is the reason why

Spoiler

the Lifestream came forth to stop Meteor at the very end of the game. Much like the prologue where the first thing you see is her praying in an alleyway, the last thing you see is her praying in the afterlife. She is instrumental to the salvation of the entire planet.

I wonder what these people would think of Tifa.

 

[radewagon]

NPR is establishment trash. Programming designed solely to make the listener feel smug about themselves

Big surprise they are peddling gamer stereotypes

Well, that's the kind of comment that seems designed solely to make you, and people that you agree with, feel smug about yourselves.

NPR is publicly funded and the closest thing we have to proffesional crowdfunded news. It is quite the opposite of "establishment trash." It's not perfect by any means but it certainly deserves better than the stereotype that you push onto it.

 

[Thabass]

And far from being a flat damsel, she is the reason why

Spoiler

the Lifestream came forth to stop Meteor at the very end of the game. Much like the prologue where the first thing you see is her praying in an alleyway, the last thing you see is her praying in the afterlife. She is instrumental to the salvation of the entire planet.

I wonder what these people would think of Tifa.

If anything Tifa is the damsel in distress type and if you want to take it a step further, you could say even say Cloud is kind of in that role. Though his role is more-so your typical protagonist overcoming trials / tribulations type.

 

[Hendrick's]

I'm also in disbelief that anyone cried over this.

 

[Orenji Neko]

I'm not a major fan of FFVII, though I liked it (preferred the games that preceded it), but poor character development, and one sided damsel-in-distress monikers are not the kind of things I would associate with Aeris. As for crying over her death, I've just assumed that was a hyperbolic narrative being sold by fanboys who want to convince people that their favorite thing is more than it seems. Sad? Sure, I can admit that, but outright crying or sobbing over it? Nah. Well, thanks to those kinds of people, these assumptions of the people who made this NPR segment now exist.

I throw "crying over Aeris dying" in the same lump as "people who play games don't shower" "live in basements" etc, types of nonsense.

 

[Rran]

I'm not a major fan of FFVII, though I liked it (preferred the games that preceded it)

I hear ya. For my money, this is the saddest Final Fantasy scene:

 

[Yumi]

What in the actual fuck? This is wrong on all accounts. Did you actually play the game? If you did, you would know that Aerith has one of the best personalities in the game.

I agree. Shes certaintly the most innocent of them all, not partaking in any avalanche reactor explosions. She saves Marlene. You know she one of the last remaining ancients so she important story wise. Always has a positive attitude even when things are bad. A great counterpart to cloud whos generally cold yo most everyone.

I get the writing wasn't phenomenal but this was a Japanese role playing video game that came out in 1997. Around 10 years after the original NES. Video games as a medium for emotional storytelling were just being explored at this point.

Seems overly harsh.

 

[Dthomp]

Her death was sad? That opened up the door for the proper love interest (Tifa) to take full hold. FIGHT ME!

 

[LegendOfKage]

Well, that's the kind of comment that seems designed solely to make you, and people that you agree with, feel smug about yourselves.

NPR is publicly funded and the closest thing we have to proffesional crowdfunded news. It is quite the opposite of "establishment trash." It's not perfect by any means but it certainly deserves better than the stereotype that you push onto it.

Badly researched "facts" from the same tired voices pushing the same tired "you probably only care about her because she's pretty" bad faith objectification arguments?

No, "establishment trash" seems pretty fitting.

 

[Azula]

Pretty cringey if I’m being honest.

Also another example of a academic left, retroactively attacking stories that were written along time ago.

There is nothing wrong with a characters motivation to be about love, or being upset that someone they cared about dying.

This goes for both genders. People love other people. It makes sense for a character to be motivated by this. Of course, a story should flesh the relationship out. Of course the character should have depth.

But I feel like what is happening, is the push to remove this story trope, which to me makes no sense. It’s a trope for a reason, because it’s a human nature that is relatable.

What doesn’t sit well with me, is when academia tries to to attack writing from the past. Most video games were limited in their writing at this time, because it’s hard making games on this scale. Ignoring the fact that writing is defined by the time it was written in, you also have to look at how games were made at the time.

So I just find it strange how there is this push to heavily criticize something for how it was written in the past (I get extreme examples like racism / sexism), but them constantly railing on the romance motivation is pretty ridiculous.

Trying to say it’s a reward and that the women is an object, is attributing malicious purpose when there isn’t any. And it also not taking into account that games are games, and story doesn’t always have to be that fleshed our to begin with. You can have a simplified story without attributing it to being responsible for millions of men committing bad behavior as a result.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I mean... I'd be less inclined to care if she was a total wolf.

 

[Graciaus]

I was sad because she was great in battle and I always used her. I remember looking at all the fake revival guides all over the internet and wasting who knows how many hours of my life trying them.

 

[Clear]

These people need to go watch Yoko Taro's GDC talk on how his "reverse scriptwriting" technique works. Because Aerith's death is basically the model for it.

"The girl dies" carries little weight by itself. However if you seed the story leading up to that death with (seemingly isolated or unconnected) sequences that build sympathy and identification with that character organically, then all you need is surprise or misdirect lead in to the event itself for major impact.

The magic is all in the build. The flashbacks to her being found abandoned at the railway station. Flowers blooming in the church. Interrupted by fireworks on the coaster, etc.

And obviously, having memorable and emotionally affecting music is massive.

 

[Fuz]

Her death was sad? That opened up the door for the proper love interest (Tifa) to take full hold. FIGHT ME!

Wasn't sad for me either, maybe because a FUCKING BASTARD friend of mine spoiled it for me at the time.

 

[Dthomp]

Wasn't sad for me either, maybe because a FUCKING BASTARD friend of mine spoiled it for me at the time.

That sucks, I think my disconnect was that FF7 was one of my first dives into the RPG genre and didn't realize she was important as a mage, since I could just give Cure materia to anybody. Cloud/Barrett/Tifa 4 Life

 

[Rran]

"Damsel in distress" isn't an inherently bad concept either. It's a quick and easy way to establish an emotional motivation for the hero. A bad guy stealing, say, a jewel should be stopped, but there's not the concept of a person in immediate danger to go with it and add to the sense of urgency. And as for why girls, women are usually the ones being kidnapped because--for better or for worse--most societies view them as more attractive, physically weaker, endearing, vulnerable, and/or pure/innocent than men.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Lina Misitzis tells Ira Glass about this one video game character from the 90s who consistently brings men to tears.

Just from that, I can already tell that Lina is a frothing at the mouth feminist. Her entire brain is wired for gender warfare.

Edit: Aaaaand there we go


Feminist confirmed.

 

[Deft Beck]

If anything Tifa is the damsel in distress type and if you want to take it a step further, you could say even say Cloud is kind of in that role. Though his role is more-so your typical protagonist overcoming trials / tribulations type.

Spoiler

Tifa went through a gauntlet to bring Cloud back from catatonia after suffering a major psychotic break toward the end of the game. You even get to play as her (or Cid) as the leader of the party while Cloud is in the hospital. I don't see how that's a damsel in distress. Tifa takes charge in a big way.

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

(Final Fantasy 7 spoilers, I guess, if you've somehow avoided them for this long.)

Link. So NPR just ran a This American Life segment discussing the death in FF7. They basically took the opportunity to push the narrative that players mainly cared about her because she's designed to be pretty, and they're in disbelief that boys cried over this. This story ticks me off for a myriad of reasons (and I think FF7 is only okay!), but what do you think? Hit up the link and give them hits, I guess.

You have RUINED FF7 for me. Thank you SO much, you jerk!

 

[Javthusiast]

Will I get another fantastic sjw take on some game topic today from ''journalists'' or will I be disappointed?

Nope, they never let me down.

 

[Hudo]

These people need to go watch Yoko Taro's GDC talk on how his "reverse scriptwriting" technique works. Because Aerith's death is basically the model for it.

"The girl dies" carries little weight by itself. However if you seed the story leading up to that death with (seemingly isolated or unconnected) sequences that build sympathy and identification with that character organically, then all you need is surprise or misdirect lead in to the event itself for major impact.

The magic is all in the build. The flashbacks to her being found abandoned at the railway station. Flowers blooming in the church. Interrupted by fireworks on the coaster, etc.

And obviously, having memorable and emotionally affecting music is massive.

It is really a great talk.

 

[zenspider]

Final Fantasy II and III (US) had way more dramatic deaths, sacrifices, and sadness - I found Aeris' death more annoying than gripping.

Still, to theorize any reasons beyond simply not have experienced anything loke that before in a game in this way is really scraping the bottom of the barrel of critical theory, and shameful for NPR.

 

[daveonezero]

Yeah that is very misleading and deceptive to use the remake assets. I came to post the PS1 version and that was already done.

 

[Rran]

You have RUINED FF7 for me. Thank you SO much, you jerk!

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Incredulous?

 

[joe_zazen]

NPR is publicly funded and the closest thing we have to proffesional crowdfunded news. It is quite the opposite of "establishment trash.

Is it? I thought it was beholden to rich people and corporations like pbs.

 

[Sub_Level]

Its a shit piece for sure, but no need for some of y'all to drag NPR as a whole over the coals for it.

Is it? I thought it was beholden to rich people and corporations like pbs.

NPR always discloses its sponsors like when it does a story on Amazon. Its much more transparent in that regard than CNN or Fox, and indeed is much more balanced programming in general. Its a whole different biz model than relying on advertisement dollars.

 

[brian0057]

I honestly never understood everyone's emotional attachment to Aerith and later crying when Sephiroth turned her into a kebab.
I was actually glad they killed her off. I find her and Chloe from Life is Strange to be in the same level of annoying.

 

[Rran]

Incredulous?

It's a good word, Pulp Fiction guy! I find it especially useful in today's sort of detached, ironic culture that loves to throw out mock disbelief at everything ("Seriously!?" "Really? REALLY?").

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Rofl

 

[Arkage]

This is pretty shitty hot take by Lina Misitzis. She claims Aeris has just two qualities: comforting others, and asking for help. This, despite her main plot arc is running away from the party to save them and the world, all by herself, at risk of great danger.

"I mean, she has no personality" she says right after defining two personality traits. Her interaction with the Turks. Her history with Zack. Her lighthearted interest in Cloud. Her early life and adoption.

"She's just a prop that gets (the party to save the world)" - this, despite Aeris being the reason why the world is saved in the first place.

What a fuckin joke.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

But she's clearly not void of personality if you actually played the game.

???

 

[Deft Beck]

???

What are you saying?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

What are you saying?

She's as plain as white bread and yes I played the game. Sometime in 1999.

 

[Vawn]

I was sad because she was great in battle and I always used her. I remember looking at all the fake revival guides all over the internet and wasting who knows how many hours of my life trying them.

This is the real reason we cried. She was our fucking healer!

 

[Impotaku]

i just used an action replay and put her back in my party, it made the end fight a bit err interesting lol

 

[Shifty1897]

I hear ya. For my money, this is the saddest Final Fantasy scene:

This is the FF scene that hurt the most, doesn't even compare to FFVII's.

 

[Cynn]

What the fuck is going on with that website? I was expecting an article. But instead I get a bunch of sound clips filled with ads spread across seperate pages...... Seriously, you can't even scrub the timeline.

Sorry for going off topic, but's I'm literally in shock with how bad that website is. I can't believe it's real.

That’s what a five star click-bait is all about. You clicked the bait and sprung the trap.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Its a shit piece for sure, but no need for some of y'all to drag NPR as a whole over the coals for it.

That's a perfectly fair point.

 

[Flying Toaster]

The entire radio broadcast was actually decent. Playing the game for the first time I really didn't like Aeris and she did feel flat as a character. That opinion started some epic arguments in school but I still believe Aeris falls flat.

Thanks for the OP even though I disagree with your view of it. The weaving of the FF7 to the second story then the coverage of Vonnegut to the next piece was good.