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[killermmn]

i buy a other brand!!!!

 

[pawel86ck]

Shadowplay seems to take about 10fps off of my framerate while recording so it's pointless, I think I figured out why I'm getting better performance, I don't have "car headlights in the rain" option enabled, it was a newer option added in more recent patches, I turned that on and dipped into the 50s quite a few times. I have no idea if XB1X uses this option.

That's strange because shadow play uses technology build into geforce chips, and it should barely affect performance during recording, that's why most gamers use it even for benchmarks. On my PC I cant even tell if shadowplay is turned on and off, fps looks the same.

for everybody comparing the xboxone x gpu to a 1070 your sadly mistaken.try a rx 580 instead. its nearly exact.

https://gpucuriosity.wordpress.com/...der-cache-size-advantage-over-the-older-gcns/
This is not the same GPU, RX580 is build from 5.7 billion transistors, while xbox X GPU is build from 7 billion transistors, and there's also difference in compute units, shader units, TMU's. Xbox X GPU has very important aditional features that PC RX580 do not (some vega features and microsoft DX12 features build into a chip also), so any comparison to RX 580 is pointless. It's simply different GPU at this point, and just for comparison xbox X GPU renders twice as many pixels compared to PS4P with just 40% more tflops, and both GPU's are AMD GPU's. If you look at xbox X performance in wolfenstein 2, you can easily tell RX 580 is simply not enough to match xbox X results, and GTX 1060 also cant do that (few post before I have linked wolfenstein 2 gameplay at 4K dynamic and low and medium settings with just 45-55 fps).

Xbox X CPU is very weak, that's a fact (and that's why CPU demanding games like PUBG runs very bad on xbox X), but GPU is surprisingly fast. People who compare xbox X GPU to GTX 1060 or RX 580 are wrong, simple as that. Microsoft could use much better CPU on xbox X, and then most games would be 60fps, but I'm guessing MS didnt wanted to cause some more compatibility issues. Xbox X is still xbox one platform and it should run xbox one games without problems.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[JimboJones]

I think the take away is these midrange cards can offer a pretty similar experience to the XboxOneX/Pro consoles. The narrative some people are pushing that the One X is some kinda 4K beast and these cards are weak sauce is just wrong.
PC has its strengths, powerful CPU's can make their cards shine like with the Kingdom come analysis, double framerate with console level quality.
Consoles can be more optimzed in certain scenarios, temporal reconstruction seems more common on those platforms.

 

[Lort]

The takeaway is that a 1060 is a weak sauce card. Its a 1080p 60 fps card. If u want 1440p 60 fps u need a 1070 and if u actually want 4k60 fps u need a 1080. Xbox one x has far more games at 4k than the 1060 and is close but slightly behind a 1070 and using dynamic res and optmisations gives u a 4k output with less fuss.

 

[Senua]

That's strange because shadow play uses technology build into geforce chips, and it should barely affect performance during recording, that's why most gamers use it even for benchmarks. On my PC I cant even tell if shadowplay is turned on and off, fps looks the same.

Hmm it definitely effected Forza 7, maybe because it was recording at such a high resolution?

The takeaway is that a 1060 is a weak sauce card. Its a 1080p 60 fps card. If u want 1440p 60 fps u need a 1070 and if u actually want 4k60 fps u need a 1080. Xbox one x has far more games at 4k than the 1060 and is close but slightly behind a 1070 and using dynamic res and optmisations gives u a 4k output with less fuss.

Yea we get it dude you hate the 1060 and love the XB1X.

 

[Lort]

Hmm it definitely effected Forza 7, maybe because it was recording at such a high resolution?
Yea we get it dude you hate the 1060 and love the XB1X.

So sorry to post the truth about performance. I linked actual benchmarks from reputable sites to counter blant agenda driven misinformation. I also have no idea why you think ShadowPlay would effect fps... once again i presume u have no idea what your talking about. My ipad xbox one x all have 1-2 fps difference when using game streaming or recording.. its actually always on by default on consoles. So to make a valid comparison u should have it on.

 

[Senua]

So sorry to post the truth about performance. I linked actual benchmarks from reputable sites to counter blant agenda driven misinformation. I also have no idea why you think ShadowPlay would effect fps... once again i presume u have no idea what your talking about. My ipad xbox one x all have 1-2 fps difference when using game streaming or recording.. its actually always on by default on consoles. So to make a valid comparison u should have it on.

Because it does, every time I turned it off my FPS went up, it's that simple really. Do you even have a gaming PC?

 

[Lort]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/1561-shadowplay-vs-fraps-vs-gvr-recording-benchmark

I think maybe your should write to these sites and tell them all there stats are wrong and only u know the true state of affairs. Its between u and them.

 

[Senua]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/1561-shadowplay-vs-fraps-vs-gvr-recording-benchmark

I think maybe your should write to these sites and tell them all there stats are wrong and only u know the true state of affairs. Its between u and them.

Didn't think so.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

That's strange because shadow play uses technology build into geforce chips, and it should barely affect performance during recording, that's why most gamers use it even for benchmarks. On my PC I cant even tell if shadowplay is turned on and off, fps looks the same.


https://gpucuriosity.wordpress.com/...der-cache-size-advantage-over-the-older-gcns/
This is not the same GPU, RX580 is build from 5.7 billion transistors, while xbox X GPU is build from 7 billion transistors, and there's also difference in compute units, shader units, TMU's. Xbox X GPU has very important aditional features that PC RX580 do not (some vega features and microsoft DX12 features build into a chip also), so any comparison to RX 580 is pointless. It's simply different GPU at this point, and just for comparison xbox X GPU renders twice as many pixels compared to PS4P with just 40% more tflops, and both GPU's are AMD GPU's. If you look at xbox X performance in wolfenstein 2, you can easily tell RX 580 is simply not enough to match xbox X results, and GTX 1060 also cant do that (few post before I have linked wolfenstein 2 gameplay at 4K dynamic and low and medium settings with just 45-55 fps).

Xbox X CPU is very weak, that's a fact (and that's why CPU demanding games like PUBG runs very bad on xbox X), but GPU is surprisingly fast. People who compare xbox X GPU to GTX 1060 or RX 580 are wrong, simple as that. Microsoft could use much better CPU on xbox X, and then most games would be 60fps, but I'm guessing MS didnt wanted to cause some more compatibility issues. Xbox X is still xbox one platform and it should run xbox one games without problems.

This is funny. So you think the GPU inside that Xbox One X is close to the 1800Mhz frequency of the average 1070?

What you're doing is looking at all the spec numbers whilst ignoring the most crucial: clockspeed. That is the reason why XboxX GPU is not on the same level as a 1070 or even really close.

 

[Lort]

This is funny. So you think the GPU inside that Xbox One X is close to the 1800Mhz frequency of the average 1070?

What you're doing is looking at all the spec numbers whilst ignoring the most crucial: clockspeed. That is the reason why XboxX GPU is not on the same level as a 1070 or even really close.

Look at the benchmarks, nothing else matters. Xbox one x is sig above a 1060 and often fairly close to a 1070 at 4k.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Look at the benchmarks, nothing else matters. Xbox one x is sig above a 1060 and often fairly close to a 1070 at 4k.

People have already explained to you that the visual quality on Xbox X is not the same as native 4K on PC but you choose to ignore it. Often the res isnt even native 4K for a start.

 

[pawel86ck]

People have already explained to you that the visual quality on Xbox X is not the same as native 4K on PC but you choose to ignore it. Often the res isnt even native 4K for a start.

My GTX 1060 gameplay links shows very similar settings, in fact wolfenstein 2 gameplay was even at low settings (while xbox X version is almost maxed out) and still game run nowhere near as good as on xbox X. Xbox X has clearly much faster than GTX 1060 without any doubt, but of course only in GPU bound games.

his is funny. So you think the GPU inside that Xbox One X is close to the 1800Mhz frequency of the average 1070?

clocks and tflops arnt everything. Geforce GTX 480 (1.34 tflops card) was faster compared to radeon 5870 (2.7 tflops card), because it was using much more efficient architecture, and xbox X also has very very efficient architecture.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

clocks and tflops arnt everything. Geforce GTX 480 (1.34 tflops card) was faster compared to radeon 5870 (2.7 tflops card), because it was using much more efficient architecture, and xbox X also has very very efficient architecture.

Who's talking about clockspeed? And don't be silly, there is no equivalence between two GPUs with a 500-700Mhz gap between them, all else being similar.

 

[Spheyr]

I went from a 765M to a 1080 and it was an insane upgrade. I don't think I could do a 1060 though, I love my Vive and action-y games too much

 

[Armorian]

My GTX 1060 gameplay links shows very similar settings, in fact wolfenstein 2 gameplay was even at low settings (while xbox X version is almost maxed out) and still game run nowhere near as good as on xbox X. Xbox X has clearly much faster than GTX 1060 without any doubt, but of course only in GPU bound games.


clocks and tflops arnt everything. Geforce GTX 480 (1.34 tflops card) was faster compared to radeon 5870 (2.7 tflops card), because it was using much more efficient architecture, and xbox X also has very very efficient architecture.

"Real" flops advantage is still on nvidia side, 10,5 TF Vega 56 is only slighty better than 6,5 TF 1070. The closest equivalent to XOX GPU is R580, Polaris with lower memory BW.

 

[Spheyr]

I went from a 765M to a 1080 and it was an insane upgrade. I don't think I could do a 1060 though, I love my Vive and action-y games too much

Wow I wish I could edit my posts. 1080 in a laptop, that is. I haven't owned a desktop system since ~2008

 

[Lort]

Who's talking about clockspeed? And don't be silly, there is no equivalence between two GPUs with a 500-700Mhz gap between them, all else being similar.

Lol real performance dosent matter only numbers of the box matters. If you close your eyes, you can imagine my game running at 4k60 on my 1060, please do because in reality its not even close. Just go buy a better graphics card and join the pc master race not the pc excuse clan.

The only thing that matters is real actual performance.

 

[LOLCats]

Guys i want a Vega 56 so bad. But just cant do that pricetag. So sad to get the video card upgrade bug right now.

 

[pawel86ck]

Lol real performance dosent matter only numbers of the box matters. If you close your eyes, you can imagine my game running at 4k60 on my 1060, please do because in reality its not even close. Just go buy a better graphics card and join the pc master race not the pc excuse clan.

The only thing that matters is real actual performance.

Exactly

"Real" flops advantage is still on nvidia side, 10,5 TF Vega 56 is only slighty better than 6,5 TF 1070. The closest equivalent to XOX GPU is R580, Polaris with lower memory BW.

Xbox X has 6 tflops (similar to RX 480/580) but it's totally different GPU, and not only architecture wise. RX580 is build from 5.7 billion transistors, while xbox X GPU is build from 7 billion transistors, and there's also difference in compute units, shader units, TMU's. RX 580 also doesnt have microsoft dx12 improvements build into GPU itself (X GPU was also customised by MS engineers).

Here's on neogaf you can even read thread in regards to it.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-scorpio-dx12-built-directly-into-gpu.1358475/

Both PS4P and xbox X use AMD GPU's. PS4P has polaris architecture like RX 480/580, yet xbox X GPU with just 40% tflops more renders 2.2x more pixels in games. How is that possible? Xbox X GPU architecture is simply much improved compared to standard polaris cards.

 

[manfestival]

ok so like I went traveling for a while but what in the world happened that the price of video cards increased so dramatically? I was totally into the idea of getting myself a 1070 but at 600 dollars its basically the price of the 1080 on release... someone please give me a brief update. is this because of all the mining that made bitcoin so stupid outrageous?

 

[Armorian]

Exactly


Xbox X has 6 tflops (similar to RX 480/580) but it's totally different GPU, and not only architecture wise. RX580 is build from 5.7 billion transistors, while xbox X GPU is build from 7 billion transistors, and there's also difference in compute units, shader units, TMU's. RX 580 also doesnt have microsoft dx12 improvements build into GPU itself (X GPU was also customised by MS engineers).

Here's on neogaf you can even read thread in regards to it.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-scorpio-dx12-built-directly-into-gpu.1358475/

Both PS4P and xbox X use AMD GPU's. PS4P has polaris architecture like RX 480/580, yet xbox X GPU with just 40% tflops more renders 2.2x more pixels in games. How is that possible? Xbox X GPU architecture is simply much improved compared to standard polaris cards.

Xbox One X GPU On Par With AMD Radeon RX580 In Terms of Real World Performance - dev

Pro has more from Vega architecture than XOX gpu (2xFP16), stuff that MS put in the GPU won't be present in AMD GPU's on pc market. Resolution differences vary from game to game, you can't say that "XOX renders fixed number of pixels more than Pro" in general. For example, in the most graphical impressive game right now (IMO), ACO, Xbox has "just" ~60% higher resolution.

 

[pawel86ck]

Xbox One X GPU On Par With AMD Radeon RX580 In Terms of Real World Performance - dev

Pro has more from Vega architecture than XOX gpu (2xFP16), stuff that MS put in the GPU won't be present in AMD GPU's on pc market. Resolution differences vary from game to game, you can't say that "XOX renders fixed number of pixels more than Pro" in general. For example, in the most graphical impressive game right now (IMO), ACO, Xbox has "just" ~60% higher resolution.

2xFP16 is very limited feature, it can be used only for postprocessing effects, while delta color compression in xbox X GPU brings noticeable benefits in higher resolution for every game. Other developers compared xbox X GPU performance to GTX 1070 and war thunder developer even compared to GTX 1080 although most xbox X games (GPU bound games) runs at GTX 1070 level. Even if xbox X GPU would use the same chip as RX 480/580 (and it's different and more advanced chip for sure), the same game would run faster on console (because of console specific optimisation, that PC simply cant get).

PS4P is using downclocked RX 480. PS4P has the same amount of shaders, ROP's, etc. as RX 480, and it even has some vega features on top of that as you have noticed. It should have RX 470 performance basially, yet xbox X render 2x as many pixels in some games compared to PS4P GPU. If you have RX 580, try to double RX 470 performance even in one game, it's impossible. On top of that you can try to play wolfenstein 2 at 4K dynamic. Even at low settings you will see lower results on that RX 580 compared to xbox X.

 

[Armorian]

2xFP16 is very limited feature, it can be used only for postprocessing effects, while delta color compression in xbox X GPU brings noticeable benefits in higher resolution for every game. Other developers compared xbox X GPU performance to GTX 1070 and war thunder developer even compared to GTX 1080 although most xbox X games (GPU bound games) runs at GTX 1070 level. Even if xbox X GPU would use the same chip as RX 480/580 (and it's different and more advanced chip for sure), the same game would run faster on console (because of console specific optimisation, that PC simply cant get).

PS4P is using downclocked RX 480. PS4P has the same amount of shaders, ROP's, etc. as RX 480, and it even has some vega features on top of that as you have noticed. It should have RX 470 performance basially, yet xbox X render 2x as many pixels in some games compared to PS4P GPU. If you have RX 580, try to double RX 470 performance even in one game, it's impossible. On top of that you can try to play wolfenstein 2 at 4K dynamic. Even at low settings you will see lower results on that RX 580 compared to xbox X.

R580 = OC R480

Both consoles use variant of the same chip, high end Polaris. Sony use low clocked chip with some Vega featrures and MS added some DX12 hardware upgrades (to speed up CPU so it don't affect resolution of games). In the end of the day XOX GPU is 6TF 4th gen GCN chip and only valid comparion is with other chips like that but I think Xbox can achive better performance than 580 thanks to better memory bandwidth and API low level optimizations as you mentioned but it's obviously not enough to reach 1070 performance. Resolution differences you posted are bigger than anyone could expect judging just from TF count, I think size and speed of memory are the biggest factors here: BW is obvius but many people forget that with increased resolution framebuffer gets bigger too, Pro has to have the same texture quality as standard PS4 so I think res is sometimes limited by memory size and not gpu power alone.

About comparison of 1060 and Xbox: you cant say for sure what settings are used in Xbox versions of games, Wolfenstein for example definietly don't use Mein Lieben on consoles, that setting eats up 8GB of Vram in 2560x1080 resolution. Wolfenstein specically is also not good game to judge performance between Nvidia and AMD chips, Vulcan is still GCN optimized (it has Mantle roots) and AMD cards destroys Nvidia in this game. R580 has better performance than 1070 and Vega 56 beats 1080ti

 

[Lort]

R580 = OC R480

Both consoles use variant of the same chip, high end Polaris. Sony use low clocked chip with some Vega featrures and MS added some DX12 hardware upgrades (to speed up CPU so it don't affect resolution of games). In the end of the day XOX GPU is 6TF 4th gen GCN chip and only valid comparion is with other chips like that but I think Xbox can achive better performance than 580 thanks to better memory bandwidth and API low level optimizations as you mentioned but it's obviously not enough to reach 1070 performance. Resolution differences you posted are bigger than anyone could expect judging just from TF count, I think size and speed of memory are the biggest factors here: BW is obvius but many people forget that with increased resolution framebuffer gets bigger too, Pro has to have the same texture quality as standard PS4 so I think res is sometimes limited by memory size and not gpu power alone.

About comparison of 1060 and Xbox: you cant say for sure what settings are used in Xbox versions of games, Wolfenstein for example definietly don't use Mein Lieben on consoles, that setting eats up 8GB of Vram in 2560x1080 resolution. Wolfenstein specically is also not good game to judge performance between Nvidia and AMD chips, Vulcan is still GCN optimized (it has Mantle roots) and AMD cards destroys Nvidia in this game. R580 has better performance than 1070 and Vega 56 beats 1080ti

Show us the 4k benchmarks of 1060 vs xbox one x. Not a good comparison ? Lol wolf is correctly optimised for async compute which is why nvidia runs like crap. You blaming game devs for using advanced gpu features now that nvidia cards dont support properly?

The only thing that matters is actual performance, thr xbox one x is almost equivilant to “highest setting on pc” is what digital foundry says in thier video.

 

[pawel86ck]

R580 = OC R480

Both consoles use variant of the same chip, high end Polaris. Sony use low clocked chip with some Vega featrures and MS added some DX12 hardware upgrades (to speed up CPU so it don't affect resolution of games). In the end of the day XOX GPU is 6TF 4th gen GCN chip and only valid comparion is with other chips like that but I think Xbox can achive better performance than 580 thanks to better memory bandwidth and API low level optimizations as you mentioned but it's obviously not enough to reach 1070 performance. Resolution differences you posted are bigger than anyone could expect judging just from TF count, I think size and speed of memory are the biggest factors here: BW is obvius but many people forget that with increased resolution framebuffer gets bigger too, Pro has to have the same texture quality as standard PS4 so I think res is sometimes limited by memory size and not gpu power alone.

About comparison of 1060 and Xbox: you cant say for sure what settings are used in Xbox versions of games, Wolfenstein for example definietly don't use Mein Lieben on consoles, that setting eats up 8GB of Vram in 2560x1080 resolution. Wolfenstein specically is also not good game to judge performance between Nvidia and AMD chips, Vulcan is still GCN optimized (it has Mantle roots) and AMD cards destroys Nvidia in this game. R580 has better performance than 1070 and Vega 56 beats 1080ti

These GPU's are not based on the same chip
https://gamingbolt.com/behind-the-xbox-one-xs-architecture-part-i-what-makes-the-gpu-special
As MS engineer have said communication from the game to the GPU is super-efficient because of their improvements. I'm sure dx12 features build into this chip speed up not only CPU, but also GPU performance because of extremely low lattency.

The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part. I asked Microsoft about this specifically, and they raise a number of good arguments that make the case strongly. Firstly, that their shader compiler is far more efficient than PC equivalents (think of shaders as native GPU code). Secondly, addressing the hardware directly via their API and with access to console-specific GPU extensions again adds to the advantage of a fixed platform box. And finally, they point to their optimisation software - PIX (Performance Investigator for Xbox) - as a tool that provides the path to console-specific optimisations that PC simply cannot get.

This is from DF article, and indeed looking at game benchmarks xbox X performance is faster than RX 580.

That's 1080p test, but here's 4K

1080ti is the fastest card for this game

No one can say for sure on what settings xbox X run wolfenstein 2, but according to digital foundry game is almost maxed out on xbox X, while GTX 1060 gameplay that I have posted shows low/medium details at 4K dynamic. At this point game is running below xbox X settings for sure, yet performance is 45-55 fps (xbox X 55-60fps), and on top of that GTX 1060 was OC'ed to 2 GHz. I would like to see GTX 1070 gameplay from this game at the same settings, because I doubt even that card would match xbox X quality and performance.

The same with all the other games comparisons that I have posted before, all of them are close mach to xbox X settings. Forza 7, 4K high settings 45 fps dips (xbox X runs that game at even higher settings).
Xbox X chip has a lot more transistors compared to RX 480/580, and it also has additional features, not only from vega, but also features added by microsoft engineers. So at this point you basically saying, much more improved GPU is on the same performance level as RX 580 . I'm asking you again, can you find at least one game, where RX 580 offers 2x better performance compared to RX 470 (PS4P GPU performance level)?

 

[Armorian]

Show us the 4k benchmarks of 1060 vs xbox one x. Not a good comparison ? Lol wolf is correctly optimised for async compute which is why nvidia runs like crap. You blaming game devs for using advanced gpu features now that nvidia cards dont support properly?

The only thing that matters is actual performance, thr xbox one x is almost equivilant to “highest setting on pc” is what digital foundry says in thier video.

Async can be turned off and it's not making much difference at all, Vulkan is just very GCN friendly, 9x% of other games shows different GPU hierarchy on the charts. Now I know that in 4k results are closer to normal.

These GPU's are not based on the same chip
https://gamingbolt.com/behind-the-xbox-one-xs-architecture-part-i-what-makes-the-gpu-special
As MS engineer have said communication from the game to the GPU is super-efficient because of their improvements. I'm sure dx12 features build into this chip speed up not only CPU, but also GPU performance because of extremely low lattency.

It's to run some things for the CPU, it's no GPU secret souce.

This is from DF article, and indeed looking at game benchmarks xbox X performance is faster than RX 580.

That's 1080p test, but here's 4K

1080ti is the fastest card for this game

No one can say for sure on what settings xbox X run wolfenstein 2, but according to digital foundry game is almost maxed out on xbox X, while GTX 1060 gameplay that I have posted shows low/medium details at 4K dynamic. At this point game is running below xbox X settings for sure, yet performance is 45-55 fps (xbox X 55-60fps), and on top of that GTX 1060 was OC'ed to 2 GHz. I would like to see GTX 1070 gameplay from this game at the same settings, because I doubt even that card would match xbox X quality and performance.

The same with all the other games comparisons that I have posted before, all of them are close mach to xbox X settings. Forza 7, 4K high settings 45 fps dips (xbox X runs that game at even higher settings).
Xbox X chip has a lot more transistors compared to RX 480/580, and it also has additional features, not only from vega, but also features added by microsoft engineers. So at this point you basically saying, much more improved GPU is on the same performance level as RX 580 . I'm asking you again, can you find at least one game, where RX 580 offers 2x better performance compared to RX 470 (PS4P GPU performance level)?

I said myself that IMO Xbox GPU is faster than 580 thanks to memory setup. R470 is the same card as 480/580 just with CU's disabled, it has the same memory bandwidth and stuff, Pro and X gpu's are very different in that aspect.

I won't continue discussion about "DF analysys vs random youtube video" performance comparisons becouse it's pointless. No one did real comprison of console version vs. pc version on exact same settings (if that's even possible, many console games have settings "in between" some of the pc options) so no "real performance" out there.

This is how I see things: Pro GPU << R470 < R580 = 1060 < XOX Gpu <<< 1070

 

[Lort]

Async can be turned off and it's not making much difference at all, Vulkan is just very GCN friendly, 9x% of other games shows different GPU hierarchy on the charts. Now I know that in 4k results are closer to normal.



It's to run some things for the CPU, it's no GPU secret souce.




I said myself that IMO Xbox GPU is faster than 580 thanks to memory setup. R470 is the same card as 480/580 just with CU's disabled, it has the same memory bandwidth and stuff, Pro and X gpu's are very different in that aspect.

I won't continue discussion about "DF analysys vs random youtube video" performance comparisons becouse it's pointless. No one did real comprison of console version vs. pc version on exact same settings (if that's even possible, many console games have settings "in between" some of the pc options) so no "real performance" out there.

This is how I see things: Pro GPU << R470 < R580 = 1060 < XOX Gpu <<< 1070

This is not df vs some random youtube .. its 3dguru benchmarks and digital foundry analysis.

This originally got off track when i mentioned that anyone with a 1060 is not part of the pc master race, they are playing games at 1080p 60 and not at 4k let alone at 4k60. The size of the PC master race is tiny compared to the bulk of pc gamers who have console level or lower graphics cards.

 

[Armorian]

This is not df vs some random youtube .. its 3dguru benchmarks and digital foundry analysis.

This originally got off track when i mentioned that anyone with a 1060 is not part of the pc master race, they are playing games at 1080p 60 and not at 4k let alone at 4k60. The size of the PC master race is tiny compared to the bulk of pc gamers who have console level or lower graphics cards.

To do proper compariosn you have to test game in the same place, doing the same things and with the same settings - there is nothing like that. Guru 3D benchmark for example http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=36154 shows the game running in the best setting with fixed 4k resolution, it's way above Xbox version.

 

[Lort]

To do proper compariosn you have to test game in the same place, doing the same things and with the same settings - there is nothing like that. Guru 3D benchmark for example http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=36154 shows the game running in the best setting with fixed 4k resolution, it's way above Xbox version.

Not even close 24 fps on a 1060 39 on a 1070

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-wolfenstein-2-xbox-one-x-vs-pro-vs-pc-analysis

Near lock of 60 fps on xbox one x 3k to true 4k in game and cutscene, usually closer to 4k

Comparing to a 1080ti on max settings “near-identical to one another, and given that Xbox One X is targeting and mostly achieving 4K, it's a great result.”

Im guessing u never read digital foundry i linked to pages back?

 

[Armorian]

I read the article when it was released. "Near identical" is not identical, the fun thing about pc settings is that in many games ultra settings looks very close or near identical to high/ver high yet they eat up a lot more gpu power. I have Wolfenstein installed on my pc, here is a comparison of HIGH and MEIN LIEBEN settings (there is also very high and ultra in between):

High

Mein Lieben

Game looks pretty much the same, yet fps is lower and vram usage much higher, i lost my saves when I had to reinstall Windows so I can's show different locations. There is also this "dynamic 4k" setting you talked about in this game, too bad id doesn't work like Xbox verion of it at all, game doesn't drop resolution like it shoud to maintain 60 fps, it's broken.

Edit: I just tested it, 5120x2160 fixed http://i.cubeupload.com/o3uQ7x.jpg, 5120x2160 with adaptive resolution http://i.cubeupload.com/cWLuvH.jpg, settings used http://i.cubeupload.com/DNQj7y.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/w1vAAW.jpg

I got amazing 1 fps with adaptive res, game changer

 

[DrSerigala]

X is the same like gtx 1060 6GB with decent CPU, if it is only like 4k medium to high setting 30 fps ( Forza and GoW is exception) with dynamic scalling, you even can tweak which setting do you prefer 60 fps 1080p or 4k 30 fps on gtx 1060

 

[Lort]

X is the same like gtx 1060 6GB with decent CPU, if it is only like 4k medium to high setting 30 fps ( Forza and GoW is exception) with dynamic scalling, you even can tweak which setting do you prefer 60 fps 1080p or 4k 30 fps on gtx 1060

Love how in your response you dont quote any examples, dont counter mine and quote two examples that disprove your own argument.

 

[pawel86ck]

I read the article when it was released. "Near identical" is not identical, the fun thing about pc settings is that in many games ultra settings looks very close or near identical to high/ver high yet they eat up a lot more gpu power. I have Wolfenstein installed on my pc, here is a comparison of HIGH and MEIN LIEBEN settings (there is also very high and ultra in between):

High

Mein Lieben

Game looks pretty much the same, yet fps is lower and vram usage much higher, i lost my saves when I had to reinstall Windows so I can's show different locations. There is also this "dynamic 4k" setting you talked about in this game, too bad id doesn't work like Xbox verion of it at all, game doesn't drop resolution like it shoud to maintain 60 fps, it's broken.

Edit: I just tested it, 5120x2160 fixed http://i.cubeupload.com/o3uQ7x.jpg, 5120x2160 with adaptive resolution http://i.cubeupload.com/cWLuvH.jpg, settings used http://i.cubeupload.com/DNQj7y.jpg http://i.cubeupload.com/w1vAAW.jpg

I got amazing 1 fps with adaptive res, game changer

That wolfenstein 2 gameplay video that I'm talking about show performance with dynamic resolution on and off, and without it performance is 20 fps worse, so dynamic resolution feature clearly works. I'm guessing, even dynamic resolution will not drop below certain point, so if GPU is way to weak even for the lowest dynamic resolution available, you will still see dips below 60fps. For example GOW 4 you can adjust amount of dynamic resolution. That wolfensten 2 gameplay proves GTX 1060 is no match to xbox X GPU performance and you have to remember, besides wolfenstein 2, there are also other games that I have linked few pages back, and GTX 1060 cant match xbox X settings in all of them. In forza 7 gameplay GTX 1060 user himself admitted, that he simply cant match xbox X performance on his GTX 1060 no matter what, he had 45fps dips even with details lowered to high. One guy in this thread suggested, that these results are wrong, so I have linked another gameplay (from different youtuber) to him, and performance was similar. I even asked him to record his GTX 1060 gameplay if he wants to prove I'm wrong. He had dips as well (but still he didnt admitted it's GTX 1060 to blame, he blamed shadow play recording software for that LOL).

No matter how many games I will link, it looks like GTX 1060 owners will always ignore results . It was my last post in this thread because I dont like repeating myself. On 1080ti I dont have performance problems like GTX 1060 users (my forza gameplay shows solid 60fps at 4K and max settings). I can play all multiplatform games on PC with better settings than xbox X for sure, and I dont care how many details GTX 1060 owners have to lower in order to get similar results as xbox X.

 

[Armorian]

What can be the lowest dynamic res point in pc version? I have 180 fps in 2560x1080 and 51 in 5120x2160, there is so much room between those two. But anyway, I cleary said that there is no reason not to agree that X Gpu is stronger than 1060 as this card and 580 trades blows in benchmarks and IMO XOX is stronger than 580. Question is how much stronger, I think not by much and it cetrainly isn't close to 1070, if it is then it's that close to 10.5 TF Vego 56 too.

You cant tell on wich settings Xbox games are running, you can estimate based on the looks but as I pointed out earlier game can look nearly identical on high and mein lieben settings (W2 example) and highest settings are usually very performance expensive and are not offering adequate graphical boost. Devs setting ultra/uber options in console version of their game would be idiotic IMO when they could trade that to better performace/higher resolution, Kingdom for example runs mostly on medium on Xbox One X.

 

[DrSerigala]

Love how in your response you dont quote any examples, dont counter mine and quote two examples that disprove your own argument.

Xbox one X is really around 1060 6GB version performance level, Kingdom Come Deliverance is the first AAA multiplatform game that come after Xbox one X release, and you can see the performance of X is really disappointed , can even get lock 30 fps medium settings at 1440p. In other hand even gtx 970 can get almost lock 30 fps high setting at 1440p, the next big AAA multiplatform is FarCry 5 and i douibt X can perform miracle

Source

 

[lukilladog]

Comparisons should be made with games coming from known good programmers.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I'm still baffled with the two 'Xbox X has a GPU in it like a GTX 1070' posters. Lmao. Devs have said it's equivalent to a 580 but bury your head in the sand by all means.

 

[Lort]

I'm still baffled with the two 'Xbox X has a GPU in it like a GTX 1070' posters. Lmao. Devs have said it's equivalent to a 580 but bury your head in the sand by all means.

Who knows what your talking about?!? Digital foundry guru3d etc efc Benchmarks show over and over again that xbox one x runs games better at 4k than a 1060.

Heres some devs talking about how “crazy powerful it is”.. once again i post actual referenced information.
https://m.windowscentral.com/what-devs-say-about-xbox-one-x

 

[Lort]

Xbox one X is really around 1060 6GB version performance level, Kingdom Come Deliverance is the first AAA multiplatform game that come after Xbox one X release, and you can see the performance of X is really disappointed , can even get lock 30 fps medium settings at 1440p. In other hand even gtx 970 can get almost lock 30 fps high setting at 1440p, the next big AAA multiplatform is FarCry 5 and i douibt X can perform miracle

Source

No card can run this at 4k 60. The game is not optimised well .. look how aweful it perfrorms with the most expensive graphics card you can buy.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,5.html

Lets see how far cry 5 runs on an xbox one x compared to a 1060 at 4k.

 

[Armorian]

Again: FC5 won't be native 4K on Xbox and will likely use mix of medium and high setting like almost all console games so you can't match both versions and compare them 1:1. Belive what you want I said everything I had to say, at the end of the day this "crazy powerful" console have 6TF AMD customized Polaris chip, these are the facts.

 

[DrSerigala]

Comparisons should be made with games coming from known good programmers.

What is the difference ? All games release now semi half baked, and then they will patch it a few months later. Good programmers for games is a myth

Who knows what your talking about?!? Digital foundry guru3d etc efc Benchmarks show over and over again that xbox one x runs games better at 4k than a 1060.

Heres some devs talking about how “crazy powerful it is”.. once again i post actual referenced information.
https://m.windowscentral.com/what-devs-say-about-xbox-one-x

Speaking of Digital Foundry, Richard from Digital Foundry already said that Xbox One X GPU is equivalent to RX 480 ( See Video Minutes 11:55) with overclock which is mean a RX 580, and this after the discussion with microsoft team itself.

No card can run this at 4k 60. The game is not optimised well .. look how aweful it perfrorms with the most expensive graphics card you can buy.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,5.html

Lets see how far cry 5 runs on an xbox one x compared to a 1060 at 4k.

Why are you talking about 4K? X even cannot run KC that well at 1440p , that is why I put comparison at 1440p. and 4k 60FPS? how many games out there that can run 4k 60 at X other than Forza, people dont buy X just only to play Forza, and most people out there only have 1080p monitor/TV at their home.
And at 1080p X cannot reach 60 fps lock at new game like monster hunter World at performance mode. And speaking about 1080p (which majority of console owner has) Xbox one X is only at level of GTX 690 RAW power which released on 2012!

Source

 

[pawel86ck]

What is the difference ? All games release now semi half baked, and then they will patch it a few months later. Good programmers for games is a myth


Speaking of Digital Foundry, Richard from Digital Foundry already said that Xbox One X GPU is equivalent to RX 480 ( See Video Minutes 11:55) with overclock which is mean a RX 580, and this after the discussion with microsoft team itself.





Why are you talking about 4K? X even cannot run KC that well at 1440p , that is why I put comparison at 1440p. and 4k 60FPS? how many games out there that can run 4k 60 at X other than Forza, people dont buy X just only to play Forza, and most people out there only have 1080p monitor/TV at their home.
And at 1080p X cannot reach 60 fps lock at new game like monster hunter World at performance mode. And speaking about 1080p (which majority of console owner has) Xbox one X is only at level of GTX 690 RAW power which released on 2012!

Source

This is relative performance BASED ON TFLOPS ESTIMATIONS (they hevent tested any game, and they dont have any results, pure speculations), that comparsion doesnt take into consideration differences in architecture and new technologies build into xbox X GPU. PS4P GPU is already based on RX 480 (it has the same amount of shaders, rops basically everything, it's just downclocked and has similar performance as RX 470), yet xbox X GPU can render 2.2x as many pixels. Results from GPU bound games that I have posted proves without any doubts that xbox X GPU is clearly above RX 580 / GTX 1060 performance wise (wolfenstein 2 results and forza 7). The only games where Xbox X GPU will be slower compared to GTX 1060 or RX 580 are CPU bottlenecked games (usually open world games), but we are not talking about CPU performance here. Today I have seen DF bunrout paradise remaster analysis, and they have said RX 580 and GTX 1060 constantly dips below 60fps compared to xbox X, and keep in mind xbox version feature more details (better shadows, ambient occlusion, better textures, more smoke effects, reworked small details). Xbox X GPU is RX 580 on steroids, so no wonder it's faster, nothing surprising.

 

[Koala Driving a Ferrari]

I was actually planning to infuse my PC gaming rig with some 1060 awesomeness earlier this year. It's a great GPU. If I was still planning to upgrade in the next six months it's what I'd be going for.

Instead, I've begun to invest my "PC upgrade fund" into a new 1990s retro PC build. I just spent $220 (Au) on a brand new vintage mechanical IBM model M keyboard . The plan is to source the parts for a beast of retro Voodoo 2 / DOS gaming PC and build it over the course of the next few months. Should be fun.


Edit: How on earth did this thread become a GTX 1060 verses the Xbox One X discussion. LOL. Oh boy. I thought that PC gamers were above these kinds of antics. I'll just let myself out.

 

[DrSerigala]

This is relative performance BASED ON TFLOPS ESTIMATIONS (they hevent tested any game, and they dont have any results, pure speculations), that comparsion doesnt take into consideration differences in architecture and new technologies build into xbox X GPU. PS4P GPU is already based on RX 480 (it has the same amount of shaders, rops basically everything, it's just downclocked and has similar performance as RX 470), yet xbox X GPU can render 2.2x as many pixels. Results from GPU bound games that I have posted proves without any doubts that xbox X GPU is clearly above RX 580 / GTX 1060 performance wise (wolfenstein 2 results and forza 7). The only games where Xbox X GPU will be slower compared to GTX 1060 or RX 580 are CPU bottlenecked games (usually open world games), but we are not talking about CPU performance here. Today I have seen DF bunrout paradise remaster analysis, and they have said RX 580 and GTX 1060 constantly dips below 60fps compared to xbox X, and keep in mind xbox version feature more details (better shadows, ambient occlusion, better textures, more smoke effects, reworked small details). Xbox X GPU is RX 580 on steroids, so no wonder it's faster, nothing surprising.

First, Like i said on my post earlier the only game that would run well on Xbox one X is only Forza compare to 1060 or RX 580, about wolfenstein 2 are you sure it is very high settings? Since most of 3rd party title on xbox one x all run on medium setting like FFXV and Kingdom Come Deliverance, the link you posted only show how it run at very high setting on AMD/Nvidia Cards on 1440p , how it is agood comparison?

Second, the graphics is not comparison about how much TFlops, gtx 1060 6 GB only has 4.6 TFLOPS and RX 580 has 6.17 TFLOPS, compared to 6 TFLOPS of X , so we are not talking about TFLOPS performance right here. It is the comparison of relative performance summary

Third, yes that is the benefit of PC , anyone can put decent CPU with less than 50$ to double the performance of X, and since most interesting title mostly open world like AC series, monster hunter, K;CD, the next Far Cry. It is a huge benefit to has good CPU.

Fourth, about Burnout Paradise, you are comparing an old game code that already 9 years to just yesterday release remastered? Of course it will run better, how about comparing remastered with another remastered that will touch origin later.

Since X just release november last year we don't have many demanding title to compare, but Kingdom Come Deliverance and PUBG already show the performance relative of X, next demanding game is FC5 maybe we could se how good is X, compare to mid-range PC

 

[pawel86ck]

First, Like i said on my post earlier the only game that would run well on Xbox one X is only Forza compare to 1060 or RX 580, about wolfenstein 2 are you sure it is very high settings? Since most of 3rd party title on xbox one x all run on medium setting like FFXV and Kingdom Come Deliverance, the link you posted only show how it run at very high setting on AMD/Nvidia Cards on 1440p , how it is agood comparison?

Second, the graphics is not comparison about how much TFlops, gtx 1060 6 GB only has 4.6 TFLOPS and RX 580 has 6.17 TFLOPS, compared to 6 TFLOPS of X , so we are not talking about TFLOPS performance right here. It is the comparison of relative performance summary

Third, yes that is the benefit of PC , anyone can put decent CPU with less than 50$ to double the performance of X, and since most interesting title mostly open world like AC series, monster hunter, K;CD, the next Far Cry. It is a huge benefit to has good CPU.

Fourth, about Burnout Paradise, you are comparing an old game code that already 9 years to just yesterday release remastered? Of course it will run better, how about comparing remastered with another remastered that will touch origin later.

Since X just release november last year we don't have many demanding title to compare, but Kingdom Come Deliverance and PUBG already show the performance relative of X, next demanding game is FC5 maybe we could se how good is X, compare to mid-range PC

Relative performance summary, but BASED ON WHAT DATA? They have benchmarked even one game on xbox X GPU? NO, so from where they get their numbers? Like I have said, FROM THEIR ESTIMATIONS

When it comes to wolfenstein 2 gameplay, we are talking about situation, when game is running at LOW settings, 4K dynamic, and still performance is nowhere near xbox X. Kingdom Come Deliverance and PUBG are probably CPU bottlenecked games on xbox X, and in games like that it's impossible to compare GPU's. In fact in PUGB even 1050 gets better framerate than xbox X, but only because xbox X has good GPU paired with very slow (tablet like) CPU.

 

[DrSerigala]

Relative performance summary, but BASED ON WHAT DATA? They have benchmarked even one game on xbox X GPU? NO, so from where they get their numbers? Like I have said, FROM THEIR ESTIMATIONS

When it comes to wolfenstein 2 gameplay, we are talking about situation, when game is running at LOW settings, 4K dynamic, and still performance is nowhere near xbox X. Kingdom Come Deliverance and PUBG are probably CPU bottlenecked games on xbox X, and in games like that it's impossible to compare GPU's. In fact in PUGB even 1050 gets better framerate than xbox X, but only because xbox X has good GPU paired with very slow (tablet like) CPU.

Based on what? you didn't even read the graphics chart right? , WOW, it is right under the graphic, Xbox One X GPU Performance estimated based on architecture, shader count and clock . Not just solely based on TFLOPS like you claimed before.

Well that is the benefit of PC nobody insane enough to put tablet CPU with mid range GPU, heck, maybe you could not even find that tablet CPU on amazon or newegg right now since nobody would even sell it. And since most interesting game mostly are open world it is a loss for X owner.

In the end, I Still believe expert like Richard from DF and technopowerup for what X gpu equivalent is and it is already said like before overclocked version of RX 480 which is basically RX 580 or Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB. The expert already speak, debating with some random guy on internet won't benefit me , especially the one who didnt read graphic chart. Have a good day/night

 

[pawel86ck]

Based on what? you didn't even read the graphics chart right? , WOW, it is right under the graphic, Xbox One X GPU Performance estimated based on architecture, shader count and clock . Not just solely based on TFLOPS like you claimed before.

Well that is the benefit of PC nobody insane enough to put tablet CPU with mid range GPU, heck, maybe you could not even find that tablet CPU on amazon or newegg right now since nobody would even sell it. And since most interesting game mostly are open world it is a loss for X owner.

In the end, I Still believe expert like Richard from DF and technopowerup for what X gpu equivalent is and it is already said like before overclocked version of RX 480 which is basically RX 580 or Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB. The expert already speak, debating with some random guy on internet won't benefit me , especially the one who didnt read graphic chart. Have a good day/night

And TFLOPS numbers are what to you? You also multiply the amount of shader cores in the GPU by it's clock speed, that's how you get TFLOPS numbers, but TFLOPS rarely translates into a real world gaming performance. When it comes to architecture, only MS engineers and developers are able to make internal tests and conclude how fast xbox X architecture really is. GUYS FROM TECHPOWERUP NEVER TESTED EVEN ONE GAME ON XBOX X, they are only estimating performance without taking int account unique features that xbox X has, so that chart is totally worthless.

Richard from DF in that mentioned video is not saying xbox X GPU is equivalent to RX 480, he just said XBOX X GPU is based on polaris architecture found in RX 480 on PC, and that's indeed true. My english skills are far But the thing is, that polaris architecture in xbox X GPU is also customized drastically, it's no longer the same card .

"The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...pio-is-console-hardware-pushed-to-a-new-level
And that's also why DF have said six teraflops on xbox will be much faster than equivalent PC part. There's no AMD GPU on the PC market with customizations like that (xbox X GPU has also some vega features, much more efficient shader compiler, and DX12 features build into a chip on top of that, so communication from the game to the GPU is drastically improved. So you get RX 580 on steroids, and dont be surprised seeing PC parts like RX 580 dipping below xbox X level, because RX 580 is in fact a less capable GPU. The extent of improvement can be seen comparing PS4P vs XboX X, because both consoles use AMD GPU's, and you get the same games running on console. Results shows xbox X architecture IS FAR MORE EFFICIENT. PS4P is using downclocked RX 480 (the same number of cores, rops, transistors. etc.) with some additional fealtures, it's basically RX 470 performance level, yet xbox X GPU can render up to 2.2x more pixels compared to PS4P GPU. Can you find even one game on PC, where RX 480 or RX 580 can double RX 470 results?

In the end, I Still believe expert like Richard from DF and technopowerup for what X gpu equivalent

Experts like Richards are passionate gamers, but ultimately only MS engineers and developers are true experts who are really able to test xbox X performance internally. Unfortunately developers arnt sure for themselves, one developer will compare xbox X performance to GTX 1060, but also some developers compare xbox X to GTX 1070 and some even GTX 1080 level of performance. We gamers cant test xbox X GPU internally like developers, but we can see what it takes on PC, to match xbox X settings in games. I have looked across multiple games, and it takes GTX 1070 to indeed match xbox X results in games without CPU bottlenecks (gears of war 4, rise of the tomb raider at 4K, forza 7, dishonored 2, evil within 2, quantum break, ethan carter), and only in CPU bound games Xbox X results may look worse.

Do yourself a favor, and run wolfenstein 2 on RX 580 or GTX 1060, you will see xbox X GPU is faster than these PC parts


GTX 1060 2GHz OC (with OC like that it's not that far behind stock GTX 1070 results at this point) 45-55 fps at 4K dynamic and low/medium settings.

Also you may test rise of the tomb raider

GTX 1070 run that game at 4K in medium settings with the same dips as xbox X at high settings.

 

[Armorian]

https://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-x-g...er-compare-to-latest-gaming-pcs-everspace-dev