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[Gotdatmoney]

Exactly. It's a ridiculous sentiment when you think about it. Personally if I was a engineer and the assistant was now being payed the same as me, I wouldn't mind as long as they are doing their work.

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

 

[backflip10019]

Thats the problem with these drastic changes. The old guard will never accept it because they went their entire career on the old standard. You have to do it very slowly.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I feel like he should have instead raised everyone's wages by a certain percentage on a scale (based on how much each person made previously). Would've made everyone happy instead of just the people making lower wages.

 

[KingGondo]

Exactly. The ones making 72k before the company raised its minimum wage may have been making market rate, but their skills are immediately devalued when new people hired to answer the phone are making a few thousand less.

I don't see how their contributions are devalued by having others in the company make enough to sustain a solid middle-class lifestyle.

It's not like every secretary or administrative person in Seattle suddenly got a raise too, just the ones at that company.

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

Why does it matter what your assistant makes as long as you're making enough to sustain your lifestyle and save for the future?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

So he didn't give experienced workers raises while doing this? I would be pissed too.

ya no shit.

 

[Vade]

I don't see how their contributions are devalued by having others in the company make enough to sustain a solid middle-class lifestyle.

I put in time, effort, and loyality for this company. New guy/gal gets the same as me; not even sure how can you not feel slighted. Also you just made the floor for the company.

 

[Two Words]

I don't know, I think many of these reactions are fair. If I'm a client and all of the sudden I need a new agency in the middle of a product launch because my service agency is hitting me with $$$ requests, my boss is going to look at me like I'm a moron for not realizing this might happen when my service agency made news for raising everyone's salaries to 70k.

Also, if I'm senior management and a receptionist is making my salary or 10k less, I'm pissed. Why do they get such a boost without the experience and training I have, and they leave early, etc.

So this is a clusterfuck and should be. I don't care what you make until you make what I make at the same company where I'm working my ass off longer than you. Then I have reason to believe I shouldn't put stock in management's judgement and my growth at said company.

If you want to push that you deserve more money, cool. But don't bitch about others making an increase in salary.Them making less than you previously did nothing but wax your ego.

 

[Aselith]

Did he announce it publicly or was it some sort of company leak thing?

 

[ISOM]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

I know that sentiment is not popular, that's why I said "personally".

 

[Lamel]

Seems like people are just pissed off that other people are getting a nice raise.

 

[backflip10019]

Did he announce it publicly or was it some sort of company leak thing?

He announced it publicly via a New York Times article.

 

[maximum360]

This is why we can't have nice things.

.

 

[phaonaut]

Exactly. The ones making 72k before the company raised its minimum wage may have been making market rate, but their skills are immediately devalued when new people hired to answer the phone are making a few thousand less.

I don't think thats accurate. I think it means they missed out on a chance of hiring better talent for that dollar, but it doesn't mean the person making market rate is all of a sudden less valuable.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

If that relative margin isn't maintained when you increase the baseline, you're going to get a lot of people that are now being underpaid relative to the new standard, because you've wiped out a great deal of what they've worked to achieve through their career progression.

That margin can't be maintained when you squeeze from the top to push the people on the bottom up. When the pay difference between the highest and lowest paid closes, the margin between all of the pay tiers get tighter.

 

[Rad-]

Why does it matter what your assistant makes as long as you're making enough to sustain your lifestyle and save for the future?

I am also an engineer and I have a person in an assistant position and our work load and the work stress levels just can't be compared. If I got suddenly paid the same as her I would quit on the spot. Or if I really needed the money I would go to my boss and say to depromote me to an assistant. I mean why not? I get paid the same either way.

 

[Aselith]

Why does it matter what your assistant makes as long as you're making enough to sustain your lifestyle and save for the future?

Because he views his assistant as lower class even though he/she may have also incurred a significant amount of student debt. Assistant is a "lesser" job so obviously they should make less.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It's really hilarious how human perception works. Those employees didn't lose any money but because those that were beneath them were brought up they felt as if they had been brought down.

 

[purvispisgah]

It's really hilarious how human perception works. Those employees didn't lose any money but because those that were beneath them were brought up they felt as if they had been brought down.

It's not crazy to think that people should be paid relative to the value they bring as an employee.

Our company recently hired an engineer fresh out of school with a bachelor's degree. I've been at the company for 6 years (and was the 4th employee) and came in with a Master's degree. Is it just a perception issue if I protest at the idea that we would make the same salary? The amount of value I bring to our company relative to this new hire is extremely vast, should I not expect to get paid more?

This is not our new hire's fault of course, it's just the nature of a competitive labor market.

 

[aeolist]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

if your assistant is getting paid the same as you then the rational response is to be pissed at the company for undervaluing your work, not to be pissed at the company for paying its low-level employees livable wages

 

[KingGondo]

What are you talking about? If the janitor now makes the same money you make, after spending years on the job, you have been brought down. It's all well and good to want to give a minimum salary to your employees, but doing so without taking into account the years of education/experience of your long time employees is asinine.

I could see merit to your argument if everyone in the city suddenly got massive raises, making your earlier salary not go nearly as far with the massive inflation that would ensue.

But we're talking about one company. If the CEO wants to pay everyone a certain amount, what's wrong with that?

Also, if that janitor is doing a good job, who gives a shit if they drive the same car as you or live in the same apartment block?

 

[Cagey]

Because he views his assistant as lower class even though he/she may have also incurred a significant amount of student debt. Assistant is a "lesser" job so obviously they should make less.

No need for quotation marks around the word lesser there. An assistant to an engineer is a job beneath being the engineer to whom people assist, and both should be paid accordingly.

 

[backflip10019]

if your assistant is getting paid the same as you then the rational response is to be pissed at the company for undervaluing your work, not to be pissed at the company for paying its low-level employees livable wages

Which is why they should've given raises across the board, instead of only people under a certain threshold.

 

[Zebra]

Some of the sentiment in this thread exactly what the rich want, for us to fight over our middle and low-income salaries to keep us distracted from them. If you think your job deserves more pay than what you get, then fight for it. But someone else getting raised up doesn't mean you are suddenly lowered. Using salary as a measurement of people's worth is convincing us to fight over scraps.

If I am comfortable in my job and feel fairly compensated for that work, I would be glad that the janitor could also have that comfort. What everyone else makes is inconsequential to me if I feel fairly compensated.

 

[Nabbis]

Greedy fucks ruin everything. Who knew? I don't care if a janitor made as much as myself, the economy will eventually go in that direction due to automation anyway.

 

[hipbabboom]

I don't feel like I'm successful in life unless others around me are lacking where I'm not. Let's stop pretending as though all people were created equally; we are not. If what sets me above others of lower means is the effort behind my upbringing, my achievements and my status in both social and professional circles then why should the very measure that separates me from those who are lower borne be shortened through no effort on their part and by the cheapening of mine? This quest for equality is fundamentally and factually false on the premise that all people were created equally and that all humans should be equal. This is not scientific and follows no natural principles or the laws of evolution. It's a failed dogma here to use the hard work of the few to quail the discontent of the lazy masses. People what to paint this destructive idealistic attention monger as some hero of the poor and pathetic but that's all he stands for... the poor and pathetic. If these people are the kinds of people we, as a society is willing to protect then we are, as a nation, a race and a species are heading to hell.

 

[victreeb3l]

Yeah, not giving experienced employees a raise was ridiculous. I'm not surprised people quit the company.

The dude shouldn't also have announced this plan to the world either. Keep private company matters...private.

 

[WedgeX]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Yep.

The guy was doing right by all his people.

 

[Melon Husk]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

This is the nasty side (for some) of narrowing the income wage cap.

How much should an assistant make then? Should she be able to raise a child alone solely on her daily salary (~40-hour workweek)?

How much more would you want to feel appreciated?

 

[sh4mike]

I disagree that he should have paid existing workers more than market rate. If he wants to overpay low level that's fine, he'll get some great applicants.

But existing workers, if they aren't worth more than $70K, should not be given an automatic raise from this salary floor experiment.

The two folks who left likely assumed they could get more dollars at a different business. If they left due to the salary floor then they are dumb, unless they predicted the corporate woes currently taking place and wanted a more secure long-term position elsewhere.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

You might as well never work again then because pop stars, day traders, and countless others can often make much more than you without having any of your knowledge or even working half as hard as you have.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

You would be wrong to feel that way. If you get paid enough to be happy, to get what you want, to do what you want to do, what another person earns is not relevant to your feelings.

 

[kirblar]

That margin can't be maintained when you squeeze from the top to push the people on the bottom up. When the pay difference between the highest and lowest paid closes, the margin between all of the pay tiers get tighter.

You can lower the margins, but you still need to maintain them.

 

[KingGondo]

If I am comfortable in my job and feel fairly compensated for that work, I would be glad that the janitor could also have that comfort. What everyone else makes is inconsequential to me if I feel fairly compensated.

Exactly right.

 

[nel e nel]

Thats the problem with these drastic changes. The old guard will never accept it because they went their entire career on the old standard. You have to do it very slowly.

Better yet, just do it without making it a publicity stunt.

 

[kirblar]

if your assistant is getting paid the same as you then the rational response is to be pissed at the company for undervaluing your work, not to be pissed at the company for paying its low-level employees livable wages

This is why the rational response for these employees was to quit because of their undervalued work.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

It's not crazy to think that people should be paid relative to the value they bring as an employee.

Our company recently hired an engineer fresh out of school with a bachelor's degree. I've been at the company for 6 years (and was the 4th employee) and came in with a Master's degree. Is it just a perception issue if I protest at the idea that we would make the same salary? The amount of value I bring to our company relative to this new hire is extremely vast, should I not expect to get paid more?

Are you happy with how much you earn? If yes, then, yes, it is a perception issue

 

[Stet]

There's a whole business discipline dedicated to change management, and this was absolutely the wrong way to go about it. I would pull my business based on the fact that he's a CEO looking more to be an overnight celebrity than make change last for the long-run.

 

[Nabbis]

No need for quotation marks around the word lesser there. An assistant to an engineer is a job beneath being the engineer to whom people assist, and both should be paid accordingly.

If i need an assistant then the worth of an engineer is 0 to me.

There's no inherent worth in capitalism, you get paid what you get.

 

[Ahasverus]

Ha. Where is that guy now?

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

He didn't give proportional raises to his employees?

Well, that's a problem.

yuuuuuuup

Always pisses me off when my company trumpets their latest increase to our hiring wage while not increasing shit for anyone making more than it.

 

[Junior Mint]

So obvious that this was going to happen when he announced it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Well sheeit. Brb applying for janitor job

 

[Gotdatmoney]

if your assistant is getting paid the same as you then the rational response is to be pissed at the company for undervaluing your work, not to be pissed at the company for paying its low-level employees livable wages

I said I would be unhappy. I never implied I would want to lower their wage. I'm not going to hate someone for taking what they can get. But I would not respect an institution that is going to require the type of education and experience many engineering jobs require than pay me the same as someone who has none of those. I would want significantly more. That sentiment is entirely different than the belief that my assistant is a valuable part of the company (if they are good at their job) and should be compensated a good livable wage. But the insentive to be better and get an education is dulled if to get to where I'm at, you did not need to spend $80k to get fuxked by engineering coursea for 4+ years.

 

[Dennis]

This will never not be funny.

 

[real_slime]

I'm an engineer. If my assistant made the same as me without having to go through the bullshit that was engineering school/any equivalent education, I would be unhappy. You dont dump $80k dollars into.am education.and deal with the kind of bullshit engineering courses can throw at you to make the same as someone with a fraction to none of your knowledge.

Yeah, not giving experienced employees a raise was ridiculous. I'm not surprised people quit the company.

The dude shouldn't also have announced this plan to the world either. Keep private company matters...private.

What's more important

- Employees who can barely afford to live a comfortable life being given more (I know we're not talking about poverty here)
- Employees who already make plenty getting even more to make them feel like their hard work allows them to be superior to other people

All the implications this might have for how the business does and what it does for the new employees is all interesting, and it'd be cool to see whether it succeeds overall or fails, but at the basic level I've got a problem with people who want to earn more than other people because they worked hard. If the only thing keeping you happy with your place in life is that there are other people who aren't making as much money than you, then you're selfish and entitled. You can say all you want about 'but I put in all this work!' - there are other rewards to being good at what you do than money, and someone else in the world making the same, slightly less or more than you shouldn't be something you spend significant time worrying about. It's competitive nonsense, the mindset of a big baby.

How about this. You've got two job offers,

1. 80,000 a year, the office secretary makes 25, 000 a year
2. 80,000 a year, the office secretary makes 70,000 a year

You mean to tell me some of you would go for the place where the secretary makes 25, just so you can feel rewarded for all that hard studying? Fuck it.

 

[rokkerkory]

Good idea, implemented horribly wrong

 

[KingGondo]

Well sheeit. Brb applying for janitor job

I'm sure you'll have lots of competition.

Some kickass janitors gonna be jockeying for that spot.

 

[Melon Husk]

Yeah, not giving experienced employees a raise was ridiculous. I'm not surprised people quit the company.

The dude shouldn't also have announced this plan to the world either. Keep private company matters...private.

I'm not surprised one bit that his most ambitious workers quit. Doesn't mean that he can't replace them with people who are satisfied in their positions.

No need for quotation marks around the word lesser there. An assistant to an engineer is a job beneath being the engineer to whom people assist, and both should be paid accordingly.

Well... You can't run a large company with purely engineers. I would say that assistants are even vital. However if we're talking about the intern that brews coffee I of course get your point.

 

[Jackbooted]

Man, I can totally appreciate where those two senior employees are coming from.

It's like if someone spent 10 years going to the gym to lose weight and then scientists just come up with some pill that fat people can take and get all skinny without having to work for it...

 

[soleil]

What's more important

- Employees who can barely afford to live a comfortable life being given more (I know we're not talking about poverty here)
- Employees who already make plenty getting even more to make them feel like their hard work allows them to be superior to other people

All the implications this might have for how the business does and what it does for the new employees is all interesting, and it'd be cool to see whether it succeeds overall or fails, but at the basic level I've got a problem with people who want to earn more than other people because they worked hard. If the only thing keeping you happy with your place in life is that there are other people who aren't making as much money than you, then you're selfish and entitled. You can say all you want about 'but I put in all this work!' - there are other rewards to being good at what you do than money, and someone else in the world making the same, slightly less or more than you shouldn't be something you spend significant time worrying about. It's competitive nonsense, the mindset of a big baby.

False dichotomy. I think minimum wage should be raised and I think other medium-level wages need to be raised as well. Otherwise we no longer have an incentive for anyone to invest in a higher level education.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

No need for quotation marks around the word lesser there. An assistant to an engineer is a job beneath being the engineer to whom people assist, and both should be paid accordingly.

This is extremely misguided rationale. A capitalist market works, theoretically, by deciding a salary based on a) how easy it is to fill a position and b) how difficult it would be to eliminate that position.

You're defining "assistant" literally as someone who "helps" the engineer. It's probably a stupid name, granted, but the duties of such an assistant are usually specifically defined. Whether they're to record, translate, or relay data, do administrative organization, or whatever, those jobs have to be done. If they can be done by the engineer in a timely manner (and she can do them competently) raising her salary might be cheaper than hiring an assistant for her. If not, then the assistant position has value. That value is determined, mostly, by how many qualified applicants the company has, not by "how much easier" the job is than the engineer's. If it requires some specialized software knowledge, maybe it'll be a six figure salary. Who knows? Job salaries aren't (and shouldn't) be determined by comparing them to others, but by how essential and how common they are.