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[NYCmetsfan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/world/europe/belgium-arson-forensic-lab-terrorism.html?_r=0

BRUSSELS — The whole operation took less than 10 minutes. Three people drove a van up to Belgium’s main forensic storehouse at 2 a.m., cut through a perimeter fence, smashed the ground-floor windows, and placed bottles of accelerant inside.

The fire they set destroyed much of the nation’s chief forensic laboratory, including its entire cache of hair samples and thousands of other pieces of evidence critical to the prosecution of hundreds of criminal and terrorism suspects.

The Aug. 29 arson, in which no suspects have been publicly identified, has cast the troubled criminal justice system of this tiny country — the biggest per capita exporter of foreign terrorists in Western Europe — into even deeper turmoil.

It has also added to mounting concerns about Belgium’s weak security systems, including at its nuclear sites. The country was used as the base to plot the attacks in Paris last November and was then itself hit by attacks in March that killed 31 people in Brussels at the international airport and on the subway.

Belgium’s ability to prosecute hundreds of criminals and terrorists may now be severely impeded, say justice officials, who have only reluctantly begun releasing information about the extent of the damage.

Prosecutors and lawyers fear that all of the cases in which DNA evidence has been used may encounter difficulties during trials. That includes many of the 400 terrorist investigations, including about 15 related to the Paris and Brussels attacks.


...

The staff at the lab has yet to complete a full inventory, said Jan De Kinder, director of the National Institute of Forensics and Criminology, or NICC as it is known by its acronym in Dutch. But he said six of 10 research laboratories were severely damaged and estimated that thousands of pieces of physical evidence were lost in the fire.

The bulk of the evidence was already analyzed and digitized and stored on a computer server not on the site, he said. But justice officials say it is not clear if the courts will accept digitized evidence alone if the physical evidence is destroyed.

According to the Brussels prosecutor’s office, it is up to a judge to determine whether a digital copy of a lost piece of physical evidence has the same value. “So far this has never posed any problems,” said Ine Van Wymersch, a spokeswoman for the Brussels prosecutor’s office, which is handling the criminal investigation of the arson.

...

Mr. Courtoy pointed to a number of terrorism cases that could potentially be affected. One involves his client Mehdi Nemmouche, who has been charged in an attack on the Jewish Museum in Brussels in 2014. His DNA was found at the museum, the authorities say, and was stored at the lab.

Another is that of Mohamed Abrini, the so-called man in the hat at the airport bombing, who is suspected of having participated in the Paris and Brussels attacks. His DNA was found in most of the hide-outs in Brussels, the authorities say.

And then there is the case against Yassine Atar, a suspected member of the Brussels terrorist network who authorities say helped hide Salah Abdeslam, a suspect in the Paris attacks who was captured after an intensive three-month manhunt. Nitrogen that could be used in making bombs was found on Mr. Atar’s hair and his beard, the authorities say, samples of which were sent to the lab for analysis.

Mr. Abdeslam was extradited to France this year, and his case may not be affected by what was lost in the fire because he will be prosecuted there, and much of the evidence was gathered in France. Still, Mr. Abdeslam’s Belgian lawyer, Sven Mary, expressed consternation at the lack of security at a government facility housing the forensic evidence of thousands of cases.

....

On the night of the attack, security at the site consisted of a fence and video cameras. There was no active security on site, said Mr. De Kinder, the institute’s director.

Security appears to be even worse at private research laboratories that the government also depends on.

On the night of March 16 of this year, an arson attack was committed against a DNA laboratory in Charleroi, destroying evidence. The same lab was also attacked in 2001 and 2003, when it was destroyed and then rebuilt. The DNA laboratory of the Ghent University, which also does forensic research, was attacked in May 2005.

More at link

 

[Takuan]

Scary shit.

 

[Tuck]

There was no security at such an important site?!

 

[reckless]

How the hell do they not have any kind of security?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

There was no security at such an important site?!

I can't help but think Belgians inability to have a functioning government for long periods of times contributes to this. I think this is a federal facility so I wonder if Flanders and Wallonia infighting contribute to this dysfunction

 

[G.ZZZ]

There was no security at such an important site?!

That's what happen when you're a peaceful country with barely no Crime

 

[GaimeGuy]

No security at a forensics complex? So easily destroyable?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

There was no security at such an important site?!

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

 

[jelly]

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Hope the judges take digital back ups as evidence in these circumstances but I imagine the suspects will kick the can down the road in higher courts to get out of it.

 

[ISOM]

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

Has Europe been following the news for the past decade?

 

[Putzweg]

That's what happen when you're a peaceful country with barely no Crime

That is just plain wrong.

 

[Tuck]

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

...Have you not seen the news in the past year or something?

 

[meppi]

Been saying this for a long time. This country is a fucking joke on so many levels.
A sick joke at that.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

That is just plain wrong.

It's not so much that there's less crime but most countries don't get hysterical and terrified like America does a lot of the time. I mean, American news is fucking terrifying.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Come on Belgium, get your shit together when it comes to security. No security guards at such a building, really now.

 

[entremet]

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

Poor answer and probably false lol

 

[ntropy]

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

lmao

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Has Europe been following the news for the past decade?

Try for the last 50 years. Europe was the terrorism capital of the world in the 20th century. The middle east didn't really start being that way until the 90s and 00s

this is Europe. Nobody expects something like this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe

 

[bonesmccoy]

Has Europe been following the news for the past decade?

Or the past century

 

[Jacobi]

That's just horrible incompetence and it will probably cost lives

 

[BrassDragon]

Nightmare scenario - Belgium was warned from all sides to harden their law enforcement infrastructure after the prevented assault on a police station in Verviers.

But... yeah.

 

[Kayhan]

Why the hell is Belgium so amateur when it comes to dealing with terrorism?

They keep bungling.

 

[orochi91]

That's rather embarrassing.

:/

 

[Poltergust]

No security? So they left tons of evidence just lying there with nothing to prevent them from being tampered with or destroyed other than a fence and video cameras?

It's good that most evidence is stored in a database, but this is gross negligence coming from the Belgian law enforcement and government.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's not so much that there's less crime but most countries don't get hysterical and terrified like America does a lot of the time. I mean, American news is fucking terrifying.

We aren't talking about being overprotective. We're talking about securing critical facilities and resources that should have controlled entry and exit. You know, like treasury deposits at banks, forensics labs, evidence warehouses, military bases, biohazard research, etc. You shouldn't be able to just drive up, cut a few wires, and either steal or blow up everything.


You can't take out a single ATM transport with a bazooka, destroying a forensic complex should require bombers flying overhead.

 

[astroturfing]

yeah.. real fucking scary.

and weak security at nuclear sites huh? i wonder if a few Isis operatives could invade one and force the staff to cause a nuclear meltdown or something.. imagine them doing that at the same time in a couple other weakly guarded nuclear plants around Europe, they could potentially fuck the whole continent up and cause mass panic never seen before.

or am i crazy and it's just impossible? i honestly can't think of a place in my country (Finland) that couldn't be taken over by lets say a dozen heavily armed crazies that aren't afraid to die.. they could certainly get our president at least.

hmm i guess i'm not sleeping much tonight.

 

[BrassDragon]

Why the hell is Belgium so amateur when it comes to dealing with terrorism?

They keep bungling.

There are good officers working there but the culture is messed up, with a legacy of interdepartmental strife (exacerbated by the ancient Flemish/Walloon rivalry), institutional mistrust from a long history of scandals and mismanagement plus brutal cuts in manpower and resources.

On top of that, the country is a flashpoint for a lot of the terrorism and hostile espionage the EU has to cope with, straining their intelligence services to the breaking point.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Has Europe been following the news for the past decade?

...Have you not seen the news in the past year or something?

Poor answer and probably false lol

lmao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe

Or the past century

It's currently 2:22 AM here (+1 gmt), so you're missing the response from the rest of Europe right now, but rest assured that you're all wrong.
Nobody expects a specific arson attempt like this because it simply hadn't happened before in that specific way.

Similar to how nobody expected the attacks of actual citizens. Hindsight is not clairvoyance, last I checked.


also, you guys clearly have no idea how labs work. It's basically just an office building where people do very boring work. You don't expect anyone to give a shit about that.

 

[BrassDragon]

I can attest that similar locations in the Netherlands do have safeguards against theft and sabotage.

Organised crime networks have targeted these locations and its employees before, it's not an academic threat.