Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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NYT Editorial: $250k a year isn't Middle Class
- Thread starter Sho_Nuff82
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Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Skellig Gra
Member
These wage comparisons are worthless when done across different parts of the country. 250k is certainly middle class in some areas especially if you have kids. Other places like Georgia you might as well be a millionaire.
Good question
I don't feel poor but would like more. After all my bills and setting aside $900 for food and gas and clothing we have about $1600.00 left "considered fun money" but it really isn't. We are using it to pay down a $8000.00 CC debt
$1540 House, Principal, Interest, Taxes, Homeowners insurance,
$300.00 Equinox
$300.00 Camaro
$100.00 Cable
$200.00 utilities
$240.00 cell phone
$140.00 CC minimum payment (o% apr 2017
$60 internet
$550 a month family insurance (decent coverage)
$900 groceries, gas and clothing
2 kids
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Cable could easily go. Credit card debt is an issue brought on by yourself.
We are actually leaning that way for 2016. We noticed we have been using Netflix most of the time when the tv is even on.
Completely agree it was brought on by me lol. Didn't take the parents advice about furnishing the house slowly and we went on a shopping spree. It was at about $19,000 back in July. We plan on having it all paid of by May after income taxes
Marty Chinn
Member
Damn, all that money wasted on interest...
I think something like this would be considered middle-class... yes? no?
I'm.....middle class according to that.....no fucking way I am....I'm poor lol. Not like majorly poor but there is no way I would be happy living on my own.
Depends on if they own it outright vs. actual equity with a mortgage. Someone who owns and can sell a $180k home is in a different position than someone living in a million dollar home with a 900k mortgage.
I would never pay interest! We used our Navy federal CC that had a $25,000 limit that came with 0% apr for 1 year. So we did that and then just got a Chase promotion to transfer a balance with 0% apr till mid 2017 which we moved the $8000 to.
Tertullian
Member
We all know poor middle class families struggle to make ends meet at $250k a year.
This could be a useful chart if published in Filthy Rich People Magazine. The thing that makes it hilarious is the look on everyone's faces. I've never seen such depression in my life. They look like their entire extended families were brutally killed in a gulag five seconds before this was drawn.
Here is my budget per month:
$2400 Mortgage
$550 Strata Fee & Property Tax
$200 BCHydro, Cable, Cellphone
$250 RRSP
$1100 Personal Trainer
$100 Internet Services (Apple Music, Cloud, Games)
$3000 Going Out Budget (Restaurants, Bars, Events, etc)
$300 Groceries (Don't really buy many groceries. My fridge right now has condiments, apples, and drinks).
$1000 Shopping Budget
Whatever's left goes towards savings but I don't save effectively yet. And I've taken a break lately and one coming up so paying debt back down was a major one too.
House is worth $200,000 we bought it at $180,000 and put down $20,000 plus with what we have paid already I would say we are around $157,000 balance.
Man your taxes are cheap. Thats about how much mine is for less value house.
My property tax is only $150 of that $550, rest is Strata fees. If you live in your house (or my case condo), property taxes are low? I know US property taxes are much higher.
Dethklok707
Banned
The internet is so annoying. Nothing can ever be stated because YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE OF THIS EXAMPLE.
$250,000 a year is upper class. To live in a big city like NYC, you need to be upper class anymore. That is a lot of money. If you can't live off of it, you have spending problems. There's millionaires that spend all of their millions too, are they middle class too?
$250,000 a year is upper class. To live in a big city like NYC, you need to be upper class anymore. That is a lot of money. If you can't live off of it, you have spending problems. There's millionaires that spend all of their millions too, are they middle class too?
My property takes on $200,000 a year is $5600.00/ 12 =466
Sorry quick correction, it's $150 that gets withdrawn each month, strata is $400.
My property assessed value is $500,000 (market value $600) is $1,838 / 12 months
I wonder why the US has such expensive property taxes.
$50k a year earner here. I would call myself lower-middle class. If I didn't have a mountain of student loan debt, I'd be living like a king. Even now, I have a nice car and my own (small) apartment, my GF and I go out to eat and go see shows all the time, etc.
Of course, I don't have a giant house or kids. That's where people run into problems, both are phenomenal money sinks; and yet both are considered essential to the whole warped "American Dream" thing.
Living with my parents and last I remember our house that's like 100k gets $3,400 in tax every year. So divide that by 12
Mid-life crisis?
$1100 for a personal trainer? Out of your list, that seems the most extravagant to me.
In 100 years we're going to have dudes living on the fucking Moonbase Luna 3 complaining that they're middle class because although they make $2mil a year most of that goes to their moon house mortgage and commuting to earth for business meetings costs soooo much money they barely have any left after maxing their savings/retirement accounts and making payments on their moon rover, really they dont make that much money your house on earth would be worth $100mil on the moon so who's the rich guy now really makes you think huh
Walter Matthau
Member
In north/central NJ, property tax is 10k or over for your average home, but most of the country is much lower.
Well I'm just over 30, so definitely not my mid-life. And I've always had a similar ratio of budget around shopping and going out, the amounts have just changed as I got older. Actually, the shopping budget went down lately and going out has gone up.
Yeah, I live in Vancouver, which is one of the most expensive housing markets in all of North America and our property tax rate is much lower. I think it's because all of the houses that went from like 300k to 2 million in the last decade and a half. People wouldn't be able to afford US property tax rates.
If that couple is getting a 2 bed/2 bath for $3750 a month in SF or NYC they got a steal of a deal on a place. Not sure how that is an idiot.
4-5K in rent is typical for a 2B/2B apartment in SF or NYC. If you want affordable, you're moving out of either city or living in a group home with multiple roomies.
No, it's not insane. It's estimated that most people in SF and NYC spend ~50% income on rent/mortgage. That's a standard rule of thumb.
A large home like that is easily $2-3 million in the SF Bay Area.
Neither. Equity is not liquid assets. Neither can use their home like an ATM.
If you had bought that same home in the SF Bay Area, you would have had a down payment of $200,000 - $300,000.
Sure you can. Equity credit lines.
Messofanego
Banned
Is this a depression in the upper class drawing? I'm laughing so hard.
We all know poor middle class families struggle to make ends meet at $250k a year.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
$250k is not middle class anywhere. Even if you live in San Francisco, you are inside the top 10% of earners if you earn $250k.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Laughing? Think of their pain, how will they ever be able to afford that 8 bedroom home?! They're struggling and you're laughing?! You monster!
I always thought that was from my pay
The difference between 250K annually and a million annually is enormous, not just in terms of real dollars but from the utility as well. The investment potential of the million plus creates opportunities the 250K household will never realize.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, which is why any sensible discussion of economic inequality recognises that someone earning 250k and someone earning 1m annually are in different economic classes - but equally, by any sensible use of the term "middle class", 250k is not middle class when in any reasonably large area of America you chose to pick, it is at least in the top 10% of incomes, so while 1m is in a different class to 250k, 250k is also in a different class to 50k.
Necromanti
Member
I mean...sure, some (or a lot of) people will be financially irresponsible regardless of their income. But the excuses hold less water the more money you have to be irresponsible with, though that's their choice.
Honestly Live Sports is really the only thing that cable has left that's really compelling.
How is it financially irresponsible? Most people will spend to their income.
Being financially irresponsible is pulling the elastic band too far that it supports and it snaps or tears.
I can almost guarantee that most of the people in this thread saying "they wouldn't know what to spend with 250k" would be up to their spending limit very quickly.
Spending money on interest when you could have saved it by accepting delayed gratification isn't responsible behaviour. I think there's some wires crossed here because I don't think you're talking about going into credit card debt to finance luxuries which is what I think most others are talking about.
I'd 'spend' it on savings.
Skellig Gra
Member
My point is you can't just look at gross income. Sure if you are a single guy who makes 250k you are not middle class. If you have a family of 5, 250k is not nearly as much. The quality of life gap between the 2 is huge.
Do you like watching friends episodes and sunday family breakfast?
Necromanti
Member
Oh, most assuredly. I was mostly referring to people who make $250k a year and struggle to make their ends meet or feel they aren't well off since their perspective is warped to such a degree. It's more that I feel people with higher incomes should be more responsible for recognizing what they have relative to others since that is often not the case. People don't have to spend (or not spend) their money a certain way, but they should at least be cognizant of their circumstances.
Not sure what you're getting at mang. Incurring credit card debt or worse for luxuries remains not a smart thing to do. And I'll echo Necromanti that not saving for retirement or a rainy day fund when one has the means to do so is similarly not smart.
charlequin
Banned
At the margins (NYC or SF where rent has spiraled upwards far beyond even inflated local salaries) this makes sense, but in most cases it doesn't check out. A lot of expenses have fairly flat pricing regardless of where you live -- cars, travel, anything you can buy on Amazon -- so big drops in rent and food don't typically translate to similar overall drops in cost. And if you're paying down old debt, or saving for the future, the money you earn in an expensive town still spends just as good when you retire somewhere cheaper. It's certainly true that it is a huge privilege to live in one of these places with a good professional job, because it's generally better than living in the sticks.
Choosing which bills get paid is not a representative middle class experience, that's a pretty standard marker of poverty.
D.Lo
Member
You choose to have several kids and choose to stay in an expensive area. Your massive, five times the median $250k salary enabled these choices.
Skellig Gra
Member
What's your point? Why does the government give tax breaks for people with kids if it's somehow irrelevant?
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