-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
NYT:Sony Sells Stake in LCD Panel Joint Venture
- Thread starter ShinobiFist
- Start date
- Status
fizzelopeguss
Banned
They chose....wisely. Honestly their sets just aren't very good at all and premium pricing for distinctly middle of the road picture quality is bananas in this market.
ShinobiFist
Banned
Before I went flat panel(last year), I was rocking a SONY CRT HDTV 34inch. I fixed it, but it died again. Bought it when it first came out as well. The research I did on getting a HD set at the time was insane. Didn't like how LCD's look at the time(and still don't, but got better)Plasma were more fragile than a human....And the whole non-sense of HD tuners, no 720p and a bunch of other non-sense was annoying back then. Glad I went with a set that had it all. Great picture, 480p, 720p, 1080i HDMI and the sound was very solid. To bad it was 200lbs, lol. DAT BACK YO!
zerodayPopbot
Member
Except, Sony's 929's are some of the best along with Sharp Elite and Panasonic's VT30's.
Chittagong
Gold Member
And Wegas.
And Bravias.
Then, Samsung.
Heh I was going to post this.
Though for full disclosure, the Pana VT30 and Samsung 8000 PDP are above it. But if one is looking for an LCD, it's the best overall current offering outside of Sharp Elite's (which are obviously catering to a different audience giving their price-point).
The thing I find distressing though is that the 929 is actually behind their previous top-of-the-line offerings in some respects. While I get the tri-luminous LED's are out given this is priced lower, the lack of a Sharp panel sucks. Its absence aggravates the 929's greatest shortcoming - haloing.
Unfortunately they dont sell their lower budget higher margin sets. They need to figure out what they want to do. High end or budget. They are failing at trying to do both.
It's a sad situation. They can't compete in price versus Korean manufacturers on the low-end (it's basically a low-margin commodity at this point) ... and the high-end market is too niche. Not enough volume to sustain their display division's size. Not to mention they're at a competitive disadvantage versus some other high-end manufacturers due to earlier missteps when entering the flat panel market.
I really don't know what the answer is. And my Sony stock is paying for it.
The people who pay for a high end tv are like early adopter console buyers. Only a new set comes out every year so the market isnt big enough to support all the players. They arent good enough at the low end and their cost cutting at the high end is starting to show as well (as you already mentioned re: 929 issues)
Yep.
What's sad though is I think much of this could have been avoided. While I'm sure economics hampered R&D over the last 1/2 decade ... most of their problems can be traced to poor management and poor reading of the market.
Here is the interesting and promising old Sony's own history on how this collaboration began. Encouraging for them at that time, isn't it? But apparently it gave them a major headache afterwards:
GLOBAL PRESS ROOM - Backstage(BRAVIA)
http://www.sony.net/pressroom/bstage/BRAVIA2.html
The bleak future for their factory sites (dedicated to assembly only) on their own territory is a real shame, though. There were rumors recently stating the imminent closure of Tokai TEC Minokamo Site, not too long ago Sony EMCS Corporation principal factory dedicated to the production of Sony's digital imaging articles like 'α Interchangeable lens digital cameras' (although the recent flood in Thailand that rendered inoperative Sony's facilities in Ayutthaya has probably delayed their plans), and the uncertain situation for other ones like Tokai TEC Kosai Site.
GLOBAL PRESS ROOM - Backstage(BRAVIA)
http://www.sony.net/pressroom/bstage/BRAVIA2.html
The joint-venture between Sony and SHARP called Sharp Display Products Corporation (SDP) continues to source LCD panels for its assembly on Sony's own products, even though the two companies are immersed in a vital crossroad right now... (and Sony is interested in different, alternative vendors as well).
Japan Display Inc. will work on small- and medium-sized display production (as Sony's involved subsidiary, Sony Mobile Display Corporation, does and is going to continue doing for it), and that is not the type of business S-LCD does.
And supposedly that is their primary objective. Some people claim that Sony is going to face a fab-less strategy on the long term, but until then they'll keep leveraging much of the burden except for partly of their reconverted key businesses. As Forsete said, since the "Asset Light" initiative encouraged by the Sony Semiconductor Business Group in 2008, one of their main focuses shifted to the production of CMOS sensors for imaging products, and right now Sony is one of the few companies that develops all key components in their digital still cameras.
The bleak future for their factory sites (dedicated to assembly only) on their own territory is a real shame, though. There were rumors recently stating the imminent closure of Tokai TEC Minokamo Site, not too long ago Sony EMCS Corporation principal factory dedicated to the production of Sony's digital imaging articles like 'α Interchangeable lens digital cameras' (although the recent flood in Thailand that rendered inoperative Sony's facilities in Ayutthaya has probably delayed their plans), and the uncertain situation for other ones like Tokai TEC Kosai Site.
ShinobiFist
Banned
Awesome link, /XX/
Anecdotal of course, but I've had good luck with 3 Samsung panels I've bought in the last 5 years. I bought a 50" 720p DLP in 2006 that's still going. Sold it to my bro in law a couple of years ago and bought a 50" 1080 Sammy Plasma and its been good so far, and I've also used a 22" Samsung LCD monitor for the last couple of years.
A lot of Sony products I've had over the last 10 years have all been shit but their customer service has been great. Bought a camcorder in 2004 that I paid almost $1000 for and it was dead 3 years later but Sony fixed it for free out of warranty. My dad had a 2005 model 46" Sony LCD Wega that went bad last year when he went to change the bulb for the first time. Found out it was a design problem with that TV and they were in the process of a class action lawsuit over that TV, and Sony replaced my dad's TV - 4 years out of warranty, for free. They gave him the choice of a 40" 1080p Bravia for free, or a substantial discount on a larger panel. My PS2 hit the dreaded DRE squad of death 2 years after I bought it, and I got it fixed for free and a free game.
zerodayPopbot
Member
It's too bad Sony didn't stick with SXRD tv's, it's great tech I think, and given more time they could have fixed stuff like the optical block problems. The canceled XBR5 still makes me sad.
Fortunately they still have their excellent SXRD front projectors.
Fortunately they still have their excellent SXRD front projectors.
wasnt trying to argue for Sony, was arguing for Panasonic
... I have 2 samsung DLPs, they work great, that was pre Samsung downfall.I'm still rocking my 60A3000 as we speak
Yep.
If they can get the hold times low enough, I plan on getting one (or a JVC D-ILA cousin).
EvilDick34
Banned
I say good riddance to Sony, they always over price their tech and it led me to going Vizio for both my HDTV twice now and their blu ray payers, i refuse to pay a tax for a name on a TV. I bought my second Vizio HDTV which was 46 inches for only 500 bucks and that was a while ago.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Maybe someone should tell Sony that being a low-margin electronics company is a pretty unprofitable business model. When I think of high quality TVs, I think of Samsung or Toshiba. Sony should really just cut their losses and focus on their more profitable divisions.
Unknown Soldier
Member
OLED's just around the corner (seriously), so I guess Sony's planning on being done with LCDs soon.
ShinobiFist
Banned
I don't know why someone mentioned Toshiba as high-end.....High-End makers are, Sharp, Panny, Samsung, LG and to a lesser extent, SONY. Toshiba may do high-end TV's, but there not even good compared to those other companies.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I should have said LG but I'm posting half asleep. The point I was making is that the Sony brand name doesn't carry an aura of quality like their competitors do.
Quadrangulum
Banned
Toshiba has a 55 inch 4K autostereoscopic 3DTV television, on the market now I believe, and they've been using Cells for their TV processing. They're an unknown quantity in America but they do cutting edge stuff with their product line.
ShinobiFist
Banned
Okay, gotcha.
ShinobiFist
Banned
Yeah, but their general available products are mediocre, even their "High-end" The only TV people are really looking forward to from TOSHIBA is that new REGZA Z2 TV coming out next year.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Toshiba tarnished their name pretty badly by engaging in the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war, and their consumer electronics business has not recovered in the minds of consumers.
However, Toshiba has plenty of other businesses they are involved in, they could drop their consumer electronics division entirely and not be the worse for wear because of it.
Yeah, beginning of the end for Sony?
sony has been digging their grave for years now. it'll be interesting to see how they approach the ps4 if they even can by then.
lol no, it's a nice dream that i would like too but no. they've been saying that for years and you wont see affordable OLED tvs quite some time yet, if ever.
I'm here to help when I can, man!
Also, check previous Sony's 'Semiconductor Business Meeting' IR Events (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/info/Semiconductor/2007/index.html and http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/info/Semiconductor/2011/index.html) as those are a good indicative of the short- to medium-term direction the company usually faces, because Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation (SCK) is like a backbone, the platform sustaining many of the key operations for other important divisions (http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol25/pdf/cxeye.pdf).
Amazing products! Specially since the 2010 models (I love the VPL-HW20).
Yeah, but it isn't so lovely (for some) that they are going to almost ignore a big chunk of the market spectrum, since they decided on the displacement of their operations in Kameyama Plant to accommodate fabrication lines of small (and medium) sized LCD modules after Apple's heavy investment in there. Also, '10th generation' Green Front Sakai will only be dedicated to their production of large panels (apart from the obligations acquired by means of the Sharp Display Products Corporation joint-venture).
Sony makes the best "affordable" lcd you can buy.
I enjoyed your posts XX and your insight into the situation, I was wondering what your thoughts were on Sony's film & TV division and what they might do with them in the future.
It's my understanding that Sony's three most profitable divisions of late were (in order) their Insurance division, their music division and the film & TV division.
But Sony's media divisions have always been hampered by the foreign media ownership laws so there is really only so much expanding they can do in markers like North America.
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
Thanks for your interest!
In my opinion, the seemingly particular Sony Corporation of America subsidiaries like Sony Pictures Entertainment and Sony Music Entertainment are essential right now for the corporation and had benefited it as a whole but, as in many corporations with an stranded cooperation compromise and extremely unrelated (and independent) businesses, they have being operated in a way that negates their potential.
Their relationship towards other divisions within the Sony Group (specially in other territories like Japan) has been only relegated to one of mere contents providers very similar to any other not affiliated with Sony, usually used as a showcase of products from the company in a insignificant way, because there weren't part of a truly unified stance that now they are trying to pursue.
As I implied in a post on a previous thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29018810&postcount=138), the objective of a newly formed company like Sony Network Entertainment Inc. could cement the basis of a real content platform wide enough that could lead to a simpler and direct connectivity between products from these different but related companies, taking advantages of the synergies motivated by an integrated and exclusive environment.
That was what Norio Ōga would have searched for, why he supported men like Ken Kutaragi, and what the Sony Group has partially lost since the advent of new market models based on digital distribution of contents.
I'm not sure why you'd list Samsung and then state 'to a lesser extent' Sony. Sony has historically offered the better top-of-the-line LCD TV. It's really the next tier down that Samsung used to win - typically by offering generally similar performance and features at a lower price.
As for Sharp, they've certainly come on in that last couple years, but actually have a pretty big whole in their historical catalog. Way back when they originally released the Aquos line in 2001, they were the shit. In a few years however, Samsung/Sony were besting them ... and generally continued to until the last few years. That's a pretty long span to be in no man's land.
For Toshiba, their problem is marketshare and brand recognition in a lot of territories. I don't know if it's market research or a self-fulfilling prophecy, but they generally refuse to even offer their high-end units in most Western markets (NA, most of Europe, etc). In Japan though, they do have high-end offerings. The problem is, it's very difficult to get metrics and side-by-side testing versus other brands here.
They don't make their own panels, but that doesn't mean they can't OEM high-end ones. Problem is, it can be hard to find info on what they're using in a given model. Regardless, their high-end units wrap whatever they're using in some pretty high tech features. IIRC, their current high-end CELL-derived TV (can't recall the name of the tech) actually has the most zones for local dimming. They offer TV's with insane #'s of tuners and HDD space (again specific to Japan's TV broadcasting). They are actually pioneers for 4K TV and glasses-less 3D. etc.
Actually I think it's generally the opposite. They do have an aura of quality vs the competitors ... but no one feels it is worth the extra cash. Many times they do actually have the best high-end offering, but that's geared towards a fairly small market. For the lower end, even if they are considered quality TV's ... one can many times get similar performance for less. Or even if it is better in some ways, the delta is too small for people to bother paying.
That isn't to say they don't offer some crap units as well ... all brands do. You really have to look at things on a line-by-line or even model-by-model basis. But to argue that people actually look at Sony as being shit-quality seems kind of crazy. It's not like customers see a Samsung and a Sony in the store, and think it's Samsung vs Vizio or something. The main problem is they see Sony as generally over-priced, not poor quality.
- Status